Fords bringing back the 302

[FocusDude]

And this thing just looks insane. I know I'm a fanboi and all, but the Mustang is just ****ting all over Chevy and Dodge. The 5oh is now putting down 412hp/380tq. Everything about this car I love. If I could only see one in real life let alone own one?

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...hotos_and_info

And grab the Leguna SECA package while your at it...
http://media.fordvehicles.com/articl...ticle_id=33065

I wanna autoX the balls off a new mustang.

[Supraru]

Not a fan of the rims but the new 5.0's are insane. Chevy and Dodge are going to have to step up in a major way to try to compete.

[JERRYM1997]

Wait till the 560hp z28 comes out next summer. But this car does look nice I just think ford over does it with all the different edition Mustangs they should just offer them all as a dealer installed option.

[Supraru]

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

Wait till the 560hp z28 comes out next summer. But this car does look nice I just think ford over does it with all the different edition Mustangs they should just offer them all as a dealer installed option.

Yeah that's great and all but they are behind the ball. They are being reactive not proactive. Plus the stang destroys these cars in handling too. I hope chevy steps it up.

[FocusDude]

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

Wait till the 560hp z28 comes out next summer.

Yea and I've been waiting on a turbocharged focus in the states, somethings you wait to see to believe.

And I have a hard time believing Chevy would produce a sports coupe with more HP then a vette... Unless the vette is really going mid-mount.

[Supraru]

Originally Posted by FocusDude

Yea and I've been waiting on a turbocharged focus in the states, somethings you wait to see to believe.

And I have a hard time believing Chevy would produce a sports coupe with more HP then a vette... Unless the vette is really going mid-mount.

They were very close to going rear engine for the next corvette. Pratt & Miller was even designing the car off the C6 chassis so they could start racing it before the car was even out but Chevy backed out because of their financial problems.

[JERRYM1997]

Originally Posted by FocusDude

Yea and I've been waiting on a turbocharged focus in the states, somethings you wait to see to believe.

And I have a hard time believing Chevy would produce a sports coupe with more HP then a vette... Unless the vette is really going mid-mount.

I have wanted that Focus RS over here since I saw it.

And chevy will make a camaro with the LSA motor from the CTS-V with more power than the regular vette cause of the Z06 and ZR1.

[Zdrummer15]

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

Wait till the 560hp z28 comes out next summer. But this car does look nice I just think ford over does it with all the different edition Mustangs they should just offer them all as a dealer installed option.

My bet is that if this car ever does come to fruition, the GT500 will still outperform it. Don't forget the current Mustangs also out handle the Camaros and they have far better visibility as well. If there is any hint of a Camaro topping the current GT500, I would fully expect Ford to up the ante just like they did with the new V6 and Coyote 5.0.

[FocusDude]

^^ I would agree that it will happen, it can happen. Just waiting wishing right now.

[JERRYM1997]

Ever since the 60's GM has outperformed ford and they will do it again look it up it is a fact and the 2011 Camaro v6 has 312hp to outperform the mustang again and I assure you that gm will not keep the transmission the same in the z28.

On a lighter note I do like your Talon.

[Zdrummer15]

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

Ever since the 60's GM has outperformed ford and they will do it again look it up it is a fact and the 2011 Camaro v6 has 312hp to outperform the mustang again and I assure you that gm will not keep the transmission the same in the z28.

On a lighter note I do like your Talon.

The new V6 in the Mustang is underrated. A stock 2011 V6 made over 330hp on a dyno and it gets great fuel economy too. I'm a huge Mustang fan, but I'm not someone who hates on any car because of make so I hope you're right and the Z28 comes out and is absolutely sick. I like all performance cars so companies one upping each other makes me happy. Like I said before, if the Z28 tops the GT500 I'm sure Ford will do something to one up GM. I'm not going to root for one or the other to be better, I'm going to just sit back and wish I could afford either car. Oh, and thanks for the compliment, I like it too.

[JERRYM1997]

Originally Posted by Zdrummer15

The new V6 in the Mustang is underrated. A stock 2011 V6 made over 330hp on a dyno and it gets great fuel economy too. I'm a huge Mustang fan, but I'm not someone who hates on any car because of make so I hope you're right and the Z28 comes out and is absolutely sick. I like all performance cars so companies one upping each other makes me happy. Like I said before, if the Z28 tops the GT500 I'm sure Ford will do something to one up GM. I'm not going to root for one or the other to be better, I'm going to just sit back and wish I could afford either car. Oh, and thanks for the compliment, I like it too.

Bottom line both Mustang and Camaro v6 are faster than a 2009 GT which makes me happy.

[DaveSTi]

Originally Posted by Zdrummer15

The new V6 in the Mustang is underrated. A stock 2011 V6 made over 330hp on a dyno

no it doesn't. it traps 102mph!

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by Zdrummer15

The new V6 in the Mustang is underrated. A stock 2011 V6 made over 330hp on a dyno

gotta be BS... 30ish less whp than a 5.0 412 bhp GT... lies

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

gotta be BS... 30ish less whp than a 5.0 412 bhp GT... lies

its 428bhp on a dyno IIRC. (the GT)

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

its 428bhp on a dyno IIRC. (the GT)

not breaking 400whp first results from dyno's was 36something

blind spots matter when you're interested in driving out in the real world and not on a track by yourself.

mustang also weighs less and handles better than the chevy. and the 2011 w/ a smaller motor than the SS is still slightly quicker, while the old 4.6 is slower (duh). new mustang interior is mint, and the body is damn close to it

course, most of this is all a matter of opinion... and i'm biased... but i sat in an SS... obviously it was within my price range. i couldnt get over how uncomfortable the interior was and how uncomfortable it made me feel about the car itself

[Zdrummer15]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

gotta be BS... 30ish less whp than a 5.0 412 bhp GT... lies

I didn't say it was 330whp. Anyway, I remembered wrong. It was in Motortrend's testing and it was the GT that was underrated by a significant margin. After the dyno run, they calculated that the V6 made 308bhp.

[Chris B.]

I love the direction FOrd is going with the new Mustangs. Better handling, better brakes, more power. It will make other auto manufacturers improve their cars too.

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

Ever since the 60's GM has outperformed ford and they will do it again look it up it is a fact and the 2011 Camaro v6 has 312hp to outperform the mustang again and I assure you that gm will not keep the transmission the same in the z28.

The 2011 V6 Camaro doesn't outperform the 2011 V6 Mustang in any way at all. Not in acceleration, handling, or braking. The Fox Body 5.0 Mustangs had no trouble beating the 5.0 and 5.7 Camaros in the 80's. It wasn't until 1993 that the Camaro was clearly faster than the Mustang GT. The 1991-1992 5.0 Camaro RS ran 1/4 mile times that were nearly identical to a 1991-1992 Escort GT.

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

Bottom line both Mustang and Camaro v6 are faster than a 2009 GT which makes me happy.

No they aren't. They are slower 0-60 MPH, 0-100 MPH, and in the 1/4 mile.

The 2005-2009 Mustang GT's are consistently faster than the 2011 V6 Mustangs and 2011 V6 Camaros. I've seen plenty of races and 1/4 miel time slips to prove it. Its not that hard to get a 13.5 or faster in the 1/4 out of a 100% completely stock 2005-2009 Mustang GT. The 2011 V6 Camaro and 2011 V6 Mustang aren't that fast. I've also seen plenty of 30-100 and 60-120 MPH races between the 2005-2009 Mustang GT'ss and the 2001 V6 Mustangs and every time the Mustang GT is clearly faster. Also the 2011 Mustang V6 is consistnely faster than the 2011 V6 Camaro.

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

I like the interior but however it should have a better dash with navigation capabilities and the blind spots, who cares so you look a little more cautiosly than just checking mirrors plus it has backup sensors just dont get lazy. I have driven a v6 Camaro plenty of times cause my aunt who gave me my car bought one and i actually smoked a 2006 Mustang GT in it. If you want more power than it has then start modding it.

So the guy in the 2006 Mustang couldn't drive. Big deal.

Originally Posted by Protege v2.5

I really feel bad for anyone who bought the previous gen Mustang, they look like cows compared to the current model. I really like where Ford is going.

Its actually a lot cheaper(by thousands of dollars) for me to add Brembo brakes and ported heads with oversized valves, cams, intake manifold, throttle body, and custom tuning to my car than it is to buy a new GT. It also will make more power than a new GT after those mods. I priced out a new 2011 GT with the same options as my 2008 and added the Brembo brake package. Sticker price was over $38K. I paid under $26K for my 2008 GT new. Sure the new GT gives you a lot of performance, but its not a great deal like the previous gen was.

[JERRYM1997]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

The 2011 V6 Camaro doesn't outperform the 2011 V6 Mustang in any way at all. Not in acceleration, handling, or braking. The Fox Body 5.0 Mustangs had no trouble beating the 5.0 and 5.7 Camaros in the 80's. It wasn't until 1993 that the Camaro was clearly faster than the Mustang GT. The 1991-1992 5.0 Camaro RS ran 1/4 mile times that were nearly identical to a 1991-1992 Escort GT.

FALSE
1980s proof
http://www.thirdgen.org/rt_october19...s_camaro_irocz
1990's v6 proof
http://motortrend.automotive.com/610.../features.html
1990's v8 proof
http://www.fastcoolcars.com/z28_vs_gt.htm
2000's proof
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ved_comparison
2010 proof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-uTjaQ6E7g

[Chris B.]

I'm sure both of us can become magazine racers and find articles to prove our points. I also noticed that the magazine such as Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Road & Track all have slower 1/4 mile times than what the owners of the cars achieved in "normal" conditions at the track.

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

FALSE
1980s proof
http://www.thirdgen.org/rt_october19...s_camaro_irocz

The article you linked used two pre production prototypes, not production cars, and it also used the heaviest version of the Mustang 5.0 with the highest coefficent of drag available that model year and a pre production engine in questionable condition. Its interesting that the Mustang GT took less time to go from the 500 foot mark to the end of the 1/4 mile and also had a higher trap speed than the Z28, yet took more time to reach 100 MPH. It makes me wonder how bad of a condition that abused, pre production engine was in during the test. Other magazine tests in the late 80's achieved faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile times with the production model 5.0 V8 Mustangs. There are some articles in Motor Trend that show the 5.0 Mustangs running high 14's and 0-60 MPH in 6.1 seconds instead of 6.7 0-60 and 15.3 int he 1/4 mile.

The notchback LX 5.0, which wasn't tested there, weighed several hundred pounds less and had a lower cD. Also, the Mustang in that article had the stock rear end gear ratios. You could get 3.31 and 3.55 gears from the factory some model years. Considering the price difference, there were several factory options that you could get on the 5.0 that could add performance. Look at the prices of both cars. The Camaro was $18,179 and the Mustang GT was $12,548. I'm sure the factory optional 3.55 gears were a lot less than the $5,631 price difference between the cars. The LX 5.0 cost even less, about the same price as the anemic 170 HP V8 Camaro LS which ran 16's stock. There were also lightweight versions of the LX 5.0 sold some model years that were even faster.

Its interesting to note that during the late 80's and early 90's, the 5.0 notchback held the 1/4 mile time record for stock class drag racing.

I can find other magaine tests that show the LX 5.0 being faster than both the 5 liter V8 5 speed Camaro/Firebird and the 5.7 liter V8 Camaro/Firebird. I also know what I had seen at the track on the same day with both cars being stock. I've also seen stock late 80's and early 90's LX 5.0 notchbacks run mid to low 14's stock and then run 13's with better tires under "normal" conditions while the stock Z28's and V8 Firebirds that were there the same day couldn't run better than high 14's. Normal being about 70 degrees, close to sea level, no recent rain, and good track prep.

During that time period, the Camaro/Firebird had the disadvantage of weighing several hundred pounds more than the LX 5.0 Mustangs. That showed at the track.

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

1990's v6 proof
http://motortrend.automotive.com/610.../features.html

Who cares about the 1980's or 1990's V6 models. Both were secretaries cars. People didn't buy them if they cared about performance, they bought them for looks and so they could say they drive a Mustang, Camaro, or Firebird. The V6 models of the Camaro and Mustang weren't respectable or fast until recently. Many of them could be beat by 4 door family cars and pickup trucks in straight line acceleration.

The one Car & Driver article you linked below does mention the V6 Mustang and Camaro in 1999.
"Our Camaro, though, weighed 260 pounds more than the Mustang, and it showed at the track. The Ford's 7.1-second clocking to 60 mph whipped the Chevy by 0.6 second. In fact, the Mustang trounced the Camaro in every one of our acceleration tests"

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

1990's v8 proof
http://www.fastcoolcars.com/z28_vs_gt.htm
2000's proof
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ved_comparison

Thank you for not reading. I said:

Originally Posted by Chris B.

It wasn't until 1993 that the Camaro was clearly faster than the Mustang GT. The 1991-1992 5.0 Camaro RS ran 1/4 mile times that were nearly identical to a 1991-1992 Escort GT.

GM had to make the Camaro/Firebird faster or else no one would buy cars with a "Playskool My First Car" interior.

It is interesting what the article mentions the track test on the Waterford Hills road course, "The winner? The Camaro, with an average lap of 1:26.1, compared with the Mustang's 1:27.2. But given the Z28's 60-hp advantage, we were surprised it prevailed by a measly 1.1 seconds. Which says a lot for Ford's savvy chassis tuners..."

Also, the other article mentioned this, "In the end, then, the Z28 takes another round in this ongoing rivalry and continues to be one of the best performance buys on the planet. But the Mustang continues to hold the edge in the one department that really matters. Despite the Camaro’s big edge in zoom, the Mustang outsells the Camaro and Firebird combined, and by a bunch: 116,610 to 88,497 in 1997; 120,901 to 69,389 through 10 months of 1998. The addition of more power and refinements for 1999 can only help, and developments such as a new independent rear suspen*sion —due to debut this spring on the SVT Mustang Cobra—indicate that Ford sees a future for the pony car. What GM sees is a mystery."

Originally Posted by JERRYM1997

2010 proof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-uTjaQ6E7g

*yawn*

The Camaro was faster for 1 year, until Ford had the new 5.0 ready for production. The Mustang was faster for several years because the Camaro and Firebird weren't in production because they weren't selling.

In every comparison test of the 2011 models, the Mustang GT trounces the Camaro in every category, acceleration, handling, lap times, etc...

Disclaimer : I'm not a Ford guy or even brand loyal. My daily drivers over the years included two Plymouths, a Porsche, some Fords, Oldsmobiles, a Geo Prizm, and Chevys. Before I bought my current car, I test drove and compared cars from Mazda, Subaru, Infiniti, Nissan, Ford, BMW, Honda, VW.