Video guys -- camera decision

[sisforsurfing]

I know this is the photography forum but figure it might get the most bites here.

Looking at potentially investing in something that records video. Priorities are;
- file quality (how it holds up to editing, shadow detail)
- size (smaller is better, unless you tell me otherwise)
- price
- storage medium (SD is great, on-board HDD is great, $P2$ cards not great)
- sensor size for low light/DoF control

Codec doesn't matter to me much as I'll be starting from ground zero anyway. This is for some professional use, some private. If there are moderately priced water housings that gets way bonus points... hah, right.

Route #1 is get something like the Canon HF10. We had one at work and it was really small, did ok in low light and created really nice files in good light. Held up well to editing.

Route #2 is get one of the micro 4/3rds cameras like the Panasonic GF1. It'd make a nice pocketable still camera too, but I'm more interested in video. Can use Nikon lenses. Not sure how the AVCHD Lite files hold up, or how much more careful I have to be to get good files without rolling shutter issues.

I'm not interested in a D90 or D300s. Too expensive for what you get, IMO, and 4/3rds provides plenty of DoF control for video.
Also not interested in the "prosumer" stuff, like the DVX and company. Too expensive.

What's the hot stuff these days? Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks guys.

[jb1830]

In all honesty with what you are looking for you're better off reading reviews at http://reviews.cnet.com/camcorders/ and deciding on what features you want most.

Any photo camera that does video as well isn't going to be as good as some of the dedicated video cameras. If you're looking to budget between the 2 sounds like you might have a winner with the micro 4/3 stuff.

I have an HVX200 (with the not so expensive anymore P2 cards) and a Canon T1i and would recommend the T1i anyday. You get a great photo cam with the added bonus of 720p video that is 10x better than the D90.

It also depends on where your final product is going to be. Any TV broadcast oriented stuff I cringe at the though of using anything below a prosumer level camera (DVX, HVX, etc.) For web oriented stuff my T1i is excellent and so are many other cameras out there. Most of the stuff now a days is HD capable, don't get something that isn't, after all, it's the way of the future.

[SloBalt]

Originally Posted by jb1830

In all honesty with what you are looking for you're better off reading reviews at http://reviews.cnet.com/camcorders/ and deciding on what features you want most.

Any photo camera that does video as well isn't going to be as good as some of the dedicated video cameras. If you're looking to budget between the 2 sounds like you might have a winner with the micro 4/3 stuff.

I have an HVX200 (with the not so expensive anymore P2 cards) and a Canon T1i and would recommend the T1i anyday. You get a great photo cam with the added bonus of 720p video that is 10x better than the D90.

It also depends on where your final product is going to be. Any TV broadcast oriented stuff I cringe at the though of using anything below a prosumer level camera (DVX, HVX, etc.) For web oriented stuff my T1i is excellent and so are many other cameras out there. Most of the stuff now a days is HD capable, don't get something that isn't, after all, it's the way of the future.

hey i was looking at the t1i and wondering how it holds up with videoing something moving or like cars driving by? i tried to look up video's on the internet but i feel the camera can't focus fast enough when objects move to quick? i could be wrong though. let me know or if you have any video's you can post. thx man. also how much did u pay for yours and where would u go to buy one if u were going to re-buy? used or new? where? thank you!

[sisforsurfing]

Thanks, I was hoping you or Spock would respond. I hadn't even thought of CNet since with the SLRs they don't have anything for me, but with video I'm a baby, so that's a good starting point.

It definitely will be HD-capable, though 720p is fine. The videos will be living on the web so I'm not concerned about squeezing every last bit of quality out, as it'll be compressed for streaming.
I'm not so much interested in the photography side of m4/3 cameras (though it's a bonus), so other than DoF control and very low light, will something like the Canon HF10, or the newer ones, provide better files?
I'm guessing they (HF10) are going for less than $450 these days, and this is what a full-size screengrab would look like; http://i40.tinypic.com/35n9fdi.jpg (obviously after post-)

Gotta go look at some GH1/GF1 footage.

[Spocknasty]

If you are doing this for professional use, you are pretty much **** out of luck with the T1i. I say this because you have little control over exposure and if you miss the shot, well yeah.

Any photo cam that shoots like a video cam is going to have a jello effect when motion is involved.

I recommend you consolidate your gear and get a 5D mark II or 7D. The 5D has some tricks up it's sleeve that others dont. IM me about that. So not only will you have a great photo cam, but a video one as well, and a wide selection of lenses to choose from.

You get a vid camera with a small chip you are going to compromise low light quality. The smaller camera you get, the less image stabilization as well.

If crisp clean audio is a concern, you're going to need an on camera mic. There are a few for the 5D, which shoots stereo.


I don't know how professional you are going with this, but you should just quit while you are ahead and hire Jon and I

[mann]

If you want HD video on an SLR unless you're getting the canon 5d mII it will disappoint. The T1i has only 20fps of 1080p (useless), the nikons have 720p, and the other low end all suck or don't have autofocus that works well in video. I have a d5000 and a HF200 and the HF200 takes WAY better video in good light. The canons struggle (hf10/100/20/200) in low light however with cine mode and 1080p 30fps they look pretty good. Honestly the best bargain seems to be the 5d mII. Between the cost of a good dslr with lens, and a good hd camcorder you're approaching the 5d cost, and the 5d takes WAAAAAY better HD video with the obvious incredible lens selection.

However I am happy with my d5000/hf200 combo as I can use the d5000 with manual focus and my 35mm prime f/1.8 lens to get that incredible DOF, and yet use the hf200 for faster stuff and avchd compression at 30p/60i for the more mundane stuff. The fact that the hf20/200/10/100 are so small is quite nice, you really can take them anywhere and not be a douche.

[SloBalt]

Originally Posted by Spocknasty

If you are doing this for professional use, you are pretty much **** out of luck with the T1i. I say this because you have little control over exposure and if you miss the shot, well yeah.

Any photo cam that shoots like a video cam is going to have a jello effect when motion is involved.

I recommend you consolidate your gear and get a 5D mark II or 7D. The 5D has some tricks up it's sleeve that others dont. IM me about that. So not only will you have a great photo cam, but a video one as well, and a wide selection of lenses to choose from.

You get a vid camera with a small chip you are going to compromise low light quality. The smaller camera you get, the less image stabilization as well.

If crisp clean audio is a concern, you're going to need an on camera mic. There are a few for the 5D, which shoots stereo.


I don't know how professional you are going with this, but you should just quit while you are ahead and hire Jon and I

i guess i am looking to take nice shots like this...


having video is cool but whatever if the both don't work together i'd rather have some badass pictures. lol

[R33E8]

yeah.. a 5d mk2 would take pictures and video like that with the right lens...

[sisforsurfing]

Yeah the 20fps @ 1080p thing with the T1i is an absolute joke. Gotta love Canon's willingness to do things solely for the sake of marketing.

Originally Posted by Spocknasty

If you are doing this for professional use, you are pretty much **** out of luck with the T1i. I say this because you have little control over exposure and if you miss the shot, well yeah.

Any photo cam that shoots like a video cam is going to have a jello effect when motion is involved.

I recommend you consolidate your gear and get a 5D mark II or 7D. The 5D has some tricks up it's sleeve that others dont. IM me about that. So not only will you have a great photo cam, but a video one as well, and a wide selection of lenses to choose from.

You get a vid camera with a small chip you are going to compromise low light quality. The smaller camera you get, the less image stabilization as well.

If crisp clean audio is a concern, you're going to need an on camera mic. There are a few for the 5D, which shoots stereo.

You're the second person to recommend a 7D (or 5D2.) The 5D2 + 24/1.4 + 24-105IS would be the dream combo. The problem is I'm primarily a still shooter, and for stills while the 5D is great at many things, I much prefer my D700. Maybe Nikon will announce a D700s at PMA with decent video... not holding my breath.

And yeah, whatever I get I'll probably just get one of the cheaper Rode shotgun/video mics.

Originally Posted by Spocknasty

I don't know how professional you are going with this, but you should just quit while you are ahead and hire Jon and I

I've already thought that it might come to that... I'll be in touch once I get things together more.

[jb1830]

What it comes down to then is how much you wanna spend.

T1i is limited to 720p @ 30fps. Like mentioned it has a 1080p mode but @ 20fps its useless unless Canon does a firmware update (50/50 chance in 2010).
You can get a body only for $700 and under which is HF10 territory. This will show you what you can do with a dslr that does video as well. They are not fun to handhold. They do not autofocus. They do not have autozoom. What you do get is the ability to buy sweet lenses that'll make your video look better than any other camera.

Like any photographer knows, lenses are an investment that dont lose value as fast and carry over to your next camera. Sadly you are currently on a Nikon body so its not as fun having to buy diff lenses. My recommendation is switch to Canon. Put the money from the D700 towards a 5DmkII. Technically equal and you gain the best video a DSLR can offer.

As you can probably tell I'm pushing you towards the video DSLR market. That is because I feel that they have the versatility and quality necessary to do everything you could ever want. My next purchase will be a 7D or a 5D depending on funds.

Tip: Spend time on Vimeo and Youtube looking at peoples demo videos on the cameras you have in mind. You'll be able to see what kinda stuff you can do. Then go to a camera store (BH, Best Buy, Walmart, etc) and play with said camera.

[Chris_PA]

Chris, hit me up if you feel like messing around with the 5D

[Khellen]

Funny you posted this. I just sold my canon HF10 with the encinema 35mm adapter a week ago for $500. The video quality of the HF10 was amazing, I was VERY happy with it. The only reason I ended up getting rid of it is I stepped up to the Canon 7d from the rebel xti. The video on the 7d is astounding, it easily as good if not better then the HF10.

[djb5118]

Originally Posted by jb1830

My recommendation is switch to Canon. Put the money from the D700 towards a 5DmkII. Technically equal and you gain the best video a DSLR can offer.

I'm no video expert but I have done my fair share of photo wor and I wouldn't exactly agree with this. When it comes down to it, you are still primarily a photographer. I wouldn't change your entire gear setup for the sheer fact of having video on your camera. The odds are that the d700s/d900 will be announced fairly soon, so I would wait. You already have a ton of money invested in arguably the best (affordable) body on the market plus the investment in glass.

I guess it's up to you but I personally wouldn't change my entire gear setup to have the video function.

Originally Posted by Khellen

Funny you posted this. I just sold my canon HF10 with the encinema 35mm adapter a week ago for $500. The video quality of the HF10 was amazing, I was VERY happy with it. The only reason I ended up getting rid of it is I stepped up to the Canon 7d from the rebel xti. The video on the 7d is astounding, it easily as good if not better then the HF10.

Which is why i bought this

I'm still waiting on my nikkor adapter ring, but I'll get some samples when I can mount my glass.

[Khellen]

Sample video from the HF10 if you're interested in seeing a clip that is 100% unedited:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MuZYL4HoY8

Don't mind the music, it's one of those youtube generic choices.

[turboman808]

The 5D MkII is ****ing amazing. Got to play with it and the video looks out of this world.

I shoot car videos and as much as I want one it's alot of work to use for a reality based, seat of your pants type of filming. If I was shooting regular movies I would be all over the 5D.


For that reason I prefer the sony ex1. Looks just as good as the 5D but is designed for reality based filming. Also has better audio if your not using a dog on a stick. 5D has terrible audio and requires a separate recording device.


I bought a sony Z1u not to long ago and using it as my main camera. It gets the job done. Alot of it comes down to knowing how best to use the camera you got.