SMG vs. F1 vs. H-pattern

[CleanNeon98]

OK so the 3 biggest manual transmission types that I can think of are the SMG system, F1 paddle style system, and the standard H-Pattern. What i want to know is which one do you like the best (for those who have driven or own an SMG or F1 id like to hear some feedback), and why. What is the reason for paddle shifters costing so much more than a standard H-shifter. Is it because of the technology, shift speed, fun factor. What is the deal with SMG and how exactly is the shifting done..I get very confused by the labeling on the top of the shifter. Or do you just like the good ol H-pattern in floor shifter? If anyone owns or has driven a column mounted shifter chime in as well.

[NOPSTNS]

except for the f1 ive driven all that uve mentioned and one u havent, the DSG. i prefer the standard H on the floor bc driving a true manual is the most fun, usually.

the f1 is only on ferraris and its a lil hard to geta test drive in one of those. paddle shifters on these....lets call them "manumatics" for fun, are not literally expensive. normal car companies that sell cars that arent 250k sell cars with paddle shifters and they cost like, maybe 900 bucks for than the standard manual. mazda, mitsu, etc etc....the tech thats real expensive behind paddle shifter cars are the ones where its a manual trans not an auto trans.

companies like mazda that sell paddle shifter cars are auto trans with the option of selecting gears urself. in most cases they have a slow response time when u tap the shifter. these types of trans are no fun.....

the real fun is a manual trans with no clutch pedal, like the DSG and such. the way audi uses it is 2 clutch discs and one preselects the next gear u will go into and instantly grabbs it when u click the paddle. audi claims a shift time of .1 seconds. so in theory, if ur hand was fast enuff, (and its not) u could go from 1st gear all the way thru 6th in less than 1 second.

those are the fun paddle shifters. they have gears, not clutch packs, so they are referred as manual trans. they are lots of fun but i prefer a normal clutch/brake/gas combo but its funnest for me.

some manumatics will shift at redline even if u dont select it to, which can be a whore when competing in autox and other motorsports. a true manual, u can decide to hold the gear and rip thru the turn. granted, some manumatics dont do it, but some do and its ghey!

so much as a colum shifter, good luck findin anyone old enuff on tst thats evr driven one! they went away before most of our parents were born! and watch were u put threads, i dont kno why this is engine performance? why not general car related? or drivetrain?

[Nors]

The f1 style trans is very prone to problems. Well in the actual sport anyways. They used hydraulics now to change the gear (3000 psi). Occasionally the trans will select two gears at the same time and locks everything up and the car is done. On other occasions drivers haven't been able to "find" first gear at the start so pretty much the car is useless and they retire. But I am sure f1 "style" are not like that at all just thought I would add this since F1 is my favorite motorsport, and the race is on in a little bit

[dwl137]

I can speak from a DSG standpoint as I own a GTI with it. It is very nice to use, shifts insanely fast (~10ms upshift) but downshifts can take a little longer (80-100ms depending on how many gears you're dropping). It is a manual in the sense that it has gears and no torque converter. Would I choose DSG over a conventional manual for a sports car...no. Nothing will replace the joy of a clutch pedal and stick. Is DSG amazing and fun, absolutely.

One thing of note, it is mentioned that the DSG will force an upshift just a hair above redline (6.5k redline and will force shift around 6.8k) However, in the GTI at least, a nice bypass feature exists that if you hold the paddle in after shifting up (or down) it will force it to stay in that gear. Another interesting note, when the transmissions "S" mode is selected, under WOT it will not shift until 7k in the GTI, even though redline is 6.5k.

So i've rambled a bit, but overall I love DSG, I'd buy it again, but if I were getting a true sports car (Porsche, Audi R8, etc) I'd go with a typical manual.

[CleanNeon98]

i always thought it was called SMG not DSG...damn it

[NOPSTNS]

they r two diff trans from two diff companies

[TurboTagTeam]

I drive an 02 BMW M3 with the SMG trans. It's the best clutchless transmission I have ever drove. I'v driven a ferrari 360 modena and their F1 tranns sucks. It's WAY slower than my M3. The SMG will rev-match for you on a downshift, and it hauls ass when you really wanna get something out of it. It's pretty much like driving a dirtbike with a clutchless trannsmission. It even rolls backwards at a stop if your on a hill. And the drivetrain has no torque converter so it is a authentic sequential transmission.

[dwl137]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

i always thought it was called SMG not DSG...damn it

DSG and SMG are completely different. Volkswagen Audi Group use DSG.

[TurboTagTeam]

SMG is only BMW. SMG= Sequential Manual GearBox

[dwl137]

Originally Posted by TurboTagTeam

I drive an 02 BMW M3 with the SMG trans. It's the best clutchless transmission I have ever drove. I'v driven a ferrari 360 modena and their F1 tranns sucks. It's WAY slower than my M3. The SMG will rev-match for you on a downshift, and it hauls ass when you really wanna get something out of it. It's pretty much like driving a dirtbike with a clutchless trannsmission. It even rolls backwards at a stop if your on a hill. And the drivetrain has no torque converter so it is a authentic sequential transmission.

DSG also rolls back at a stop and it also rev matches downshifts. The biggest difference between SMG and DSG is that DSG has two clutches (R-1-3-5 & 2-4-6 gear) and SMG just uses 1. DSG does shift faster though because of the dual clutches. SMG II was the last SMG I drove and it was nice, i enjoyed it.

[CleanNeon98]

thanks for clearing that up.

Reason I asked is that i was lookin at my dream car online last night (ferrari f355), and was wondering the differences between the choices. Also, what the hell is this? Its circled as the little stick in the middle where the shifter would be, and there look to be 2 plugs or somethin there.

[dwl137]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

thanks for clearing that up.

Reason I asked is that i was lookin at my dream car online last night (ferrari f355), and was wondering the differences between the choices. Also, what the hell is this? Its circled as the little stick in the middle where the shifter would be, and there look to be 2 plugs or somethin there.

As far as I know on the F1 Transmission one of those buttons is to select reverse and I think the other is to put it in an automated mode (I know the Maserati paddle shift has that option). I'm not sure what the stick is.

[bastid]

My car is SMG equipped. I have yet to drive a DSG car or the newest generation Ferrari/Maserati F1, but I hear they are both phenomenal. No complaints with my gearbox.

[BradC]

The buttons are for sport and auto modes, and the t-handle is for reverse, IIRC.

[dwl137]

Originally Posted by BradC

The buttons are for sport and auto modes, and the t-handle is for reverse, IIRC.

ahh ok. Wasn't really sure on which was which. I was pretty sure they had those options, just didn't know what controlled which.

[redwrxwagon02]

Originally Posted by NOPSTNS

so much as a colum shifter, good luck findin anyone old enuff on tst thats evr driven one! they went away before most of our parents were born!

im 20 and iv driven 3 column shift cars lol b4 i had my subie i was into classic fords i drove 2 65 ford falcons with 3 on the tree and i drove my friends 62 galaxie 500 with a 3 on the tree

so about column shift manuals its weird as hell
i mean its still like driving a manual car just its weird to use the column ****er like a floor shifter

[eviltalon]

I love banging gears. The H-pattern is the only trans that does it for me

[Evo8kid]

ditto^

[92dxman]

H pattern for its simplicity and utter enjoyment.

[OMGz Turbo]

yeah H for the win.