Turbo=Vtec Wrx=SI STI=Type-R GC8=every stock honda - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

StreetEG · 07-05-2006, 09:29 PM

Welp, I figured I havent stirred up any controversy in a while. Might as well piss some people off. Especially all the elitest subaru owners who think they have the new hot ****... Just like every teenager with an si touching vtec before every shift. Lets break it down.

1. This is by no means a comparison of the drivetrain, or capabilities of either car. They have been proven millions of times in hondas and likewise in subarus.

2. This refers more to the culture surrounding each car.

WRX vs Civic SI

This excludes the new EP3 si... which is a total waste of what honda has built years of experience doing. This arguement is just comparing the Civic SI to the wrx.

First of all they both had a huge aftermarket support. They both innovated the 4 cylinder market and became the most common tuner car on the road. Tristate is flooded with WRXs, as is nasioc... and lets not even begin to talk about the aftermarket....

Both cars have a HUUUUGGGGEEEEE aftermarket for parts, but as I see more and more younger drivers in wrx's I see more and more with catback, no suspension, a BOV and the center guage pod...equivalent to the si slammed on springs with just catback and an intake. BY THE WAY THESE ARE NOT DIRECT COMPARISONS. But just in comparison they are very similar.

Both cars have:
smaller motors
stock power adders (used loosely when referring to vtec)
weaker brakes for the weight
huge aftermarket support
generally the same type of people driving them

STI vs Type-R

This one is a little bit tougher, but lets try it anyway.

STI:
Big wing
bigger brakes
lighter? idk much about subies
bigger engine
better head
sport suspension
specific interior
reffered to as just sti and people know what your talkin about... no wagon, no other cars that can be confused

Type-R:
big wing
11 inch discs compared to the 10.2 on an si
lighter
bigger engine 1.8 compared to 1.6
better head (cams more aggressive) where as sti is ported better (correct me if i am wrong)
sport suspension
specific interior
referred to as type-r (at least in the states) and everyone knows what it is.

Ok thats the factory similarities. But now in comparison...those who can afford either of these cars new can affords the less ricier( and i use the term loosely) mods aka money spent on performance based mods rather then looks. Youll find more of these car owners with "real" exhausts and suspensions not ebay specials...even though i know someone* that is rollin around w/ an ebay external on an sti---but we wont name names.

Anyway, the more expensive, more track ready vehicles are better in comparison to each lower end counterpart in terms of differences in actual car and customer it attracts.

Vtec vs Stock td04 wrx turbo.

This analysis is going to be given relative to what each represents in full modded form. By this I mean... In stock form, The cars with these power adders give nothing really impressive to the car. Without the awd launch a stock wrx is not much faster then any other 4cyl compact.

The aftermarket:
--Both cars have mods that are more apt to revealing the true power of what they are meant to do, as well as bootleg ass ebay parts and backyard special bull**** that just makes it more obvious that these stock parts came with your car.
AKA-the BOV on a wrx with no other mods, or some of the catbacks.
aka-an ebay special intake or a DC header which is notorious for not doing **** for performance but making vtec LOUD AS HELL.

On the other hand, a properly built car can do some serious damage on any track.

The GC8 and every other non turbo subie vs every other honda.

Lets be honest. They are both lighter, offer less ammeneties, but are swapable, cheap and easy to work on. Stock parts are floating around from both the honda and subaru world to make piecing together your own bootleg 2.5 turbo from stock wrx parts or lsvtec hatchback civic wayyy to easy.

Once again I am not knocking either of the two builds I am just saying there is tuning for every financial level when it comes to either of these cars.

anyway I have probably left out a bunch of thoughts that i was thinking of putting in this bored at work, and will probably have to edit later... but that is my rant about subie VS honda

Scapegoat · 07-05-2006, 09:35 PM

too much time and anger on your hands

**TROLL** · 07-05-2006, 09:42 PM

i can appreciate your comparison... a few comments i have...

the gc8 is quite possibly the most popular subaru around due to its looks and its lighter weight. unfortunately they were never released in the us with forced induction so only a few here and there get the notoriety they deserve.
i also believe that although WRXs and STis are becoming quite common, they dont appeal to your average sports car owner. they're funny looking, and they have 4 doors. this leads to more performance oriented modifications as a whole because that is the main draw of the car and the type of owner it appeals to.
all in all though, you're right and you were able to make some close comparisions between the two cars.

xEJ20x · 07-05-2006, 09:46 PM

I don't see how this is controversial.
It seems like a pretty fair-sided outlook to this idea.

StreetEG · 07-05-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xEJ20x

I don't see how this is controversial.
It seems like a pretty fair-sided outlook to this idea.

haha look at the response i got on nasioc!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1039899

its not really controversial... but i had to put it in there because it gets so ugly on the subaru forums but nowhere else...defensive maybe?

either way, i thought it was interesting.

StreetEG · 07-05-2006, 09:53 PM

[QUOTE=TROLL]
the gc8 is quite possibly the most popular subaru around due to its looks and its lighter weight. unfortunately they were never released in the us with forced induction so only a few here and there get the notoriety they deserve.
QUOTE]

The reason I picked the GC8 is because it is comparable to hatches, that are lighter but didnt come equiped with dohc engines. i could have went a lot deeper comparing both the dohc and sohc for both subaru and honda, but with this post people will already think that I have too much time on my hands... Which i do dont get me wrong, but i didnt want to make it worse

xEJ20x · 07-05-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StreetEG

haha look at the response i got on nasioc!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1039899

its not really controversial... but i had to put it in there because it gets so ugly on the subaru forums but nowhere else...defensive maybe?

either way, i thought it was interesting.

It's the same way on Honda-Tech.

You have the people who have been there too long and should be beyond owning a Honda or don't own a Honda anymore.
Or you have the young "h0ndA-f0-lyfe" fan boys, who know nothing about the automotive world beyond these keywords: Vtec, GSR, Type R, and Si.

As for NASIOC, don't listen to anyone with a member number higher than 100k. They are mostly former GSR converts.

MPowerKai · 07-05-2006, 10:04 PM

[QUOTE=StreetEG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TROLL

the gc8 is quite possibly the most popular subaru around due to its looks and its lighter weight. unfortunately they were never released in the us with forced induction so only a few here and there get the notoriety they deserve.
QUOTE]

The reason I picked the GC8 is because it is comparable to hatches, that are lighter but didnt come equiped with dohc engines. i could have went a lot deeper comparing both the dohc and sohc for both subaru and honda, but with this post people will already think that I have too much time on my hands... Which i do dont get me wrong, but i didnt want to make it worse

actually the gc8 did come equipped with a dohc in the earlier years of its production.

StreetEG · 07-05-2006, 10:10 PM

I meant the hatch has single cam vs dual for si/type r where as gc8 came with non turbo vs wrx turbo... but ya same ol stuff

EDIT gregfeder is a ***ggggg

MPowerKai · 07-05-2006, 10:13 PM

ah ok, got'cha

BMW is safe with it's VANOS system

xEJ20x · 07-05-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPowerKai

BMW is safe with it's VANOS system

Still an advanced form of valve timing that originated with GM and Fiat.

And the new 2008 Legacy is aiming to put a hurtin on BMW sales.

**TROLL** · 07-05-2006, 10:23 PM

ok so the gc8 and hatches are both well liked, both light, and both take well to swaps... agreed.

**TROLL** · 07-05-2006, 10:31 PM

oh my god i just read nasioc ot for about 5 minutes and i want to stab myself now but all i have is this crappy pen on my desk!

MPowerKai · 07-06-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xEJ20x

And the new 2008 Legacy is aiming to put a hurtin on BMW sales.

Only time will tell

UnderPoweredRS · 07-06-2006, 01:02 AM

I see tons of subaru drivers who are doing stupid things. just day I saw a 2.5rs wagon(bugeye) the kid was running no muffler and painted some of the dash trim... <--gay

I can't even count the number of wrxs I see with just a BOV that makes it run like crap. There is nothing wrong with the stock BPV I know plenty of 12 second WRXs that run the stock BPV. If it leaks tap it with a hammer and be done with it or atleast get an aftermarket one and plumb it back into the intake. I saw this problem a lot when I was big into DSMs. First thing people do is vent the BPV and wonder why there car is stalling when they let off. I believe the rice crowd is moving over to subarus.

MPowerKai · 07-06-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderPoweredRS

I see tons of subaru drivers who are doing stupid things. just day I saw a 2.5rs wagon(bugeye) the kid was running no muffler and painted some of the dash trim... <--gay

I can't even count the number of wrxs I see with just a BOV that makes it run like crap. There is nothing wrong with the stock BPV I know plenty of 12 second WRXs that run the stock BPV. If it leaks tap it with a hammer and be done with it or atleast get an aftermarket one and plumb it back into the intake. I saw this problem a lot when I was big into DSMs. First thing people do is vent the BPV and wonder why there car is stalling when they let off. I believe the rice crowd is moving over to subarus.

haha when I had my 2nd gen 3000gt vr4 I had an hks ssq bov and had it open atmosphere, only stalled once though. Ah those were the days, every shift was soo annoying until I sold it and now I feel like I'm missing something.

D Money · 07-06-2006, 01:57 AM

I cannot believe you put that on Nasioc, they are going to rip you apart Eric!

xEJ20x · 07-06-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderPoweredRS

I see tons of subaru drivers who are doing stupid things. just day I saw a 2.5rs wagon(bugeye) the kid was running no muffler and painted some of the dash trim... <--gay
I believe the rice crowd is moving over to subarus.

02 and 03 WRX's are dirt cheap now.
There is one at Burn's Honda that is selling for a bit over $12,000.

HuffRex · 07-06-2006, 09:39 AM

Another comparison is the EJ207 motor to a few Honda motors! I have an 8000rpm rev limiter just like the H22A & B18C1 motors.

C'DALERIDER · 07-06-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subwrxkid

I cannot believe you put that on Nasioc, they are going to rip you apart Eric!

yep, some did but some gave good opinions. Thats nasioc. good post

07-05-2006, 09:29 PM	#1
StreetEG Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Member #1109 iTrader: (1)	Turbo=Vtec Wrx=SI STI=Type-R GC8=every stock honda Welp, I figured I havent stirred up any controversy in a while. Might as well piss some people off. Especially all the elitest subaru owners who think they have the new hot **... Just like every teenager with an si touching vtec before every shift. Lets break it down. 1. This is by no means a comparison of the drivetrain, or capabilities of either car. They have been proven millions of times in hondas and likewise in subarus. 2. This refers more to the culture surrounding each car. WRX vs Civic SI This excludes the new EP3 si... which is a total waste of what honda has built years of experience doing. This arguement is just comparing the Civic SI to the wrx. First of all they both had a huge aftermarket support. They both innovated the 4 cylinder market and became the most common tuner car on the road. Tristate is flooded with WRXs, as is nasioc... and lets not even begin to talk about the aftermarket.... Both cars have a HUUUUGGGGEEEEE aftermarket for parts, but as I see more and more younger drivers in wrx's I see more and more with catback, no suspension, a BOV and the center guage pod...equivalent to the si slammed on springs with just catback and an intake. BY THE WAY THESE ARE NOT DIRECT COMPARISONS. But just in comparison they are very similar. Both cars have: smaller motors stock power adders (used loosely when referring to vtec) weaker brakes for the weight huge aftermarket support generally the same type of people driving them STI vs Type-R** This one is a little bit tougher, but lets try it anyway. STI: Big wing bigger brakes lighter? idk much about subies bigger engine better head sport suspension specific interior reffered to as just sti and people know what your talkin about... no wagon, no other cars that can be confused Type-R: big wing 11 inch discs compared to the 10.2 on an si lighter bigger engine 1.8 compared to 1.6 better head (cams more aggressive) where as sti is ported better (correct me if i am wrong) sport suspension specific interior referred to as type-r (at least in the states) and everyone knows what it is. Ok thats the factory similarities. But now in comparison...those who can afford either of these cars new can affords the less ricier( and i use the term loosely) mods aka money spent on performance based mods rather then looks. Youll find more of these car owners with "real" exhausts and suspensions not ebay specials...even though i know someone* that is rollin around w/ an ebay external on an sti---but we wont name names. Anyway, the more expensive, more track ready vehicles are better in comparison to each lower end counterpart in terms of differences in actual car and customer it attracts. Vtec vs Stock td04 wrx turbo. This analysis is going to be given relative to what each represents in full modded form. By this I mean... In stock form, The cars with these power adders give nothing really impressive to the car. Without the awd launch a stock wrx is not much faster then any other 4cyl compact. The aftermarket: --Both cars have mods that are more apt to revealing the true power of what they are meant to do, as well as bootleg ass ebay parts and backyard special bull** that just makes it more obvious that these stock parts came with your car. AKA-the BOV on a wrx with no other mods, or some of the catbacks. aka-an ebay special intake or a DC header which is notorious for not doing for performance but making vtec LOUD AS HELL. On the other hand, a properly built car can do some serious damage on any track. The GC8 and every other non turbo subie vs every other honda.** Lets be honest. They are both lighter, offer less ammeneties, but are swapable, cheap and easy to work on. Stock parts are floating around from both the honda and subaru world to make piecing together your own bootleg 2.5 turbo from stock wrx parts or lsvtec hatchback civic wayyy to easy. Once again I am not knocking either of the two builds I am just saying there is tuning for every financial level when it comes to either of these cars. anyway I have probably left out a bunch of thoughts that i was thinking of putting in this bored at work, and will probably have to edit later... but that is my rant about subie VS honda __________________ EscapetheApple.com 20,000 Miles, No Hotels, Every Amazing Road in America

07-05-2006, 09:46 PM	#4
xEJ20x Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Jersey Member #72 My Ride: 13 STI iTrader: (3)	I don't see how this is controversial. It seems like a pretty fair-sided outlook to this idea. __________________ Nothing to see here.

07-05-2006, 09:53 PM	#6
StreetEG Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Member #1109 iTrader: (1)	[QUOTE=TROLL] the gc8 is quite possibly the most popular subaru around due to its looks and its lighter weight. unfortunately they were never released in the us with forced induction so only a few here and there get the notoriety they deserve. QUOTE] The reason I picked the GC8 is because it is comparable to hatches, that are lighter but didnt come equiped with dohc engines. i could have went a lot deeper comparing both the dohc and sohc for both subaru and honda, but with this post people will already think that I have too much time on my hands... Which i do dont get me wrong, but i didnt want to make it worse __________________ EscapetheApple.com 20,000 Miles, No Hotels, Every Amazing Road in America

07-05-2006, 10:10 PM	#9
StreetEG Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Member #1109 iTrader: (1)	I meant the hatch has single cam vs dual for si/type r where as gc8 came with non turbo vs wrx turbo... but ya same ol stuff EDIT gregfeder is a ***ggggg __________________ EscapetheApple.com 20,000 Miles, No Hotels, Every Amazing Road in America

07-06-2006, 01:02 AM	#15
UnderPoweredRS Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lindenwold, NJ Member #233 iTrader: (0)	I see tons of subaru drivers who are doing stupid things. just day I saw a 2.5rs wagon(bugeye) the kid was running no muffler and painted some of the dash trim... <--gay I can't even count the number of wrxs I see with just a BOV that makes it run like crap. There is nothing wrong with the stock BPV I know plenty of 12 second WRXs that run the stock BPV. If it leaks tap it with a hammer and be done with it or atleast get an aftermarket one and plumb it back into the intake. I saw this problem a lot when I was big into DSMs. First thing people do is vent the BPV and wonder why there car is stalling when they let off. I believe the rice crowd is moving over to subarus. __________________ My GC8 UR STi

07-05-2006, 09:35 PM	#2
Scapegoat TST Ruined My Life! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: stop looking at my gold Member #1208 iTrader: (1)	too much time and anger on your hands

07-06-2006, 09:39 AM	#19
HuffRex Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Stratford, NJ Member #757 My Ride: 2004 WRX/2002 P/T Cruiser iTrader: (1)	Another comparison is the EJ207 motor to a few Honda motors! I have an 8000rpm rev limiter just like the H22A & B18C1 motors. __________________ Shooting for 550-600whp by Spring! R.I.P. Cdalerider