can i afford anything?

[98GSXdude]

im thinking of selling my nissan maxima and picking something up a little sportier. i havent slept all weekend trying to think of something i can afford so i figured i mine as well ask on here. ill have about 12k to spend on something and i dont want a project car. needs to be fwd or awd because i commute to work and school and rwd wouldnt get me anywhere in the winter. i dont want anything old or high mileage. something like 95+ and under 70k miles would be good. whatever i get has to be reliable as hell and need no work. (ive had 2 dsms prior to this car and im paranoid, lol) i intend to mod it but not heavily, looking for something that can trap what about a 13 second car would trap with basic bolt ons, whats that, 105 about?? (i dont think ill be racing it, but i say 13's just for comparison). this isnt a "want ad" so dont tell me if u or someone else has something for sale, ill probably buy from a dealership if i can because i dont want anything thats been modified before. i just want to hear people's opinions. did i post this in the right place? thanks guys

[cburwell]

Mod the Maxima!I can't think of anything off the top of my head that is in that price range that will suit your needs.

[1988 Olds]

Hmm. Well considering it only snows maybe 5-6 days a year I would get a 99-01ish Mustang GT. That should get ya around low to mid 14s for under 10K. That leaves ya 2K for intake, exhuast, headers, gears. There is so much stuff out there for them for cheap.

If it must be FWD or AWD, I would go with the GSX but lol like you said you already sold 2 of them. I can't think of any cars that are going to get you into the 13s that aren't going to be turbo.

[99SL2_Modder]

95-98 manual DOHC saturn.

105 traps will be in the high 12's. A 104 trap in a saturn is a little less than 13.1.

Of course, fastest n/a saturn we've had so far was 14.2 at 96mph...with only 147hp at the wheels.

It's not a joke. These cars are fun to drive, and fairly quick, and can be very reliable.

All numbers presented are with traction. This negates Mike's 140mph traps running low 14's.

Don't forget, Saturns are notorious for rolls, not stops. Low-end sucks when you're done modding them. They all breathe up top.

*edit*
NOT A WAGON! Too heavy.

1g: Coupe body for lighter car (also lower than sedan in this gen)
2g: Sedan body for lighter car (also 1.6" or so lower than coupe these years)
3g: Same as 2g.

*edit 2*
Stay away from 99's. They're hybrids and suck. Try to dodge 95's, cause they did some weird stuff underhood. 96-98 would be your best bet, however, 93-98 would work well (91-92 had a different engine mounting design, and thus would require some fabrication to make it half decent).

*edit 3*
The amount of money you'd spend on a saturn is very little. You have 12k to toss around, you could probably pick up a good manual saturn for 4k. That gives you 8k in mods, which is more money than what I have done to my car. That should give you just about every bolt-on you can get for the car, plus a fuel controller, plus an SF or a DP nitrous set, still running stock internals, with 50-75 shots.

[turbotool]

Get a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. Cheap, supercharged, front-wheel drive, and highly underrated. Basic bolt ons will definitely get you in the 13s.

[TurboTagTeam]

Originally Posted by 99SL2_Modder

95-98 manual DOHC saturn.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



This is how I look at it....

Cheap
Fast
Reliable

Pick 2. You can't have all three.

Your best bet would probably be a Honda or a DSM. Those are the only FWD or RWD cars that you could drive in the winter time with the amount of modifications it would take to run 13's.

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by TurboTagTeam

Your best bet would probably be a Honda or a DSM. Those are the only FWD or RWD cars that you could drive in the winter time with the amount of modifications it would take to run 13's.

Completely not true, but then again, you're stereotyping, so I won't even bother to try and prove you wrong because your mindset isn't anywhere near acceptance of anything other than fallacies you think to be true.

[TurboTagTeam]

How am I stereotyping? Saturn=Slow&Reliable. He specifically said that he wanted to do "light mods" and runs 13's. I don't consider nitrous a "light" mod. And you could bolt on every thing they make for your car and it's not gonna run 13's.

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by TurboTagTeam

How am I stereotyping? Saturn=Slow&Reliable. He specifically said that he wanted to do "light mods" and runs 13's. I don't consider nitrous a "light" mod. And you could bolt on every thing they make for your car and it's not gonna run 13's.

I'd say cheap and reliable, not slow and reliable.

And I see your point. There's a possibility of running 13's. Just cause no one has done it n/a doesn't mean it's not possible. And if he's looking at 105 traps, that's easy enough to get with a saturn and like I said, that'd be high 12's.

[98GSXdude]

thanks guys for all your input.

cburwell- modding the maxima is useless in my eyes, its a 3.0, not the 3.5, it would be fighting a winless war.

1988 Olds- rustang is out of the question, i really wanna stay away from rwd, around me the snow melts before they get around to plowing the streets and even a light dusting is instant death for any rwd cars. and i never said i didnt want a turbo car. i just dont want a car thats n/a and throw a turbo on there because there goes the reliability factor, i also dont want another car that i have to constantly keep tuning. wrx would be awesome but cant afford

99SL2_Modder- i will never own a saturn

turbotool- i forgot to add that i have a rare disease that stictly prohibits me from ever owning a car with only 2 pedals. but yes my friend used to own a gtp (now has a srt4), and it the gtp was a quick car, wish it came in stick.

TurboTagTeam- i totally agree with you, u cant have fast, cheap, and reliable. 12k isnt "cheap", 13's arent "fast", and i really do need a reliable car.

well thanks everybody. so far me and my friends could come up with a few cars that i'd be happy with: 2000 civic si, 2002 civic si hatch, integra gsr, subaru 2.5rs (either gm6 style or 2002 style), 2002 jetta/gti 1.8t and vr6. my pick so far is a 2002 vw, i havent decided wheather i prefer a vr6 or 1.8t or jetta or gti yet. but im far from hell bent on it. if anyone can come up with something else i'd be open to it, thanks again

[TurboTagTeam]

Your on the right track

I forgot about volkwagons. That's my pick. Any volkwagon enthusiast will tell you to go with the 1.6L Turbo. There is a huge aftermarket for them. You could eaisly get a Gti into the 13's or lower. I got smoked by one last year in my turbo civic. He ran low 12's with a upgraded turbo, exhaust, fuel mods, and a tune.

Plus VW has them new funny ass commercials so thats a plus

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by 98GSXdude

99SL2_Modder- i will never own a saturn

Why? Everyone says that, but no one has a legit reason.

Originally Posted by 98GSXdude

and i really do need a reliable car.

So, reliable doesn't apply to something that just needs tuneups and oil changes to last +500k miles and gets upper 30's to lower and even mid 40's on gas mileage.

Gee, must have gone all wrong on that one.

[BlackBulletTSi]

LoL yea everyone freakin underrates that saturn, bothers me. Kinda wish I picked up an SC2 and modded it but oh well. I agree wit Clint on the Saturn but thats me

[TurboTagTeam]

Originally Posted by 99SL2_Modder

Why? Everyone says that, but no one has a legit reason.

There is no nice way to say this.



Saturns should in no way be accociated with performance. They were never designed to go anywere in a fast manner. They are saposto go to the grocery store with your four children and defiantly take the hits from the shopping karts in the parking lot.

Yes, people have found ways to make them faster than stock, but IMO it is a lost cause. You still have your self a car that was made to do the opposite you are trying to make it into.

Why to people hook up saturns? I really don't know. I know that with some suspension a saturn might handle somwhat decent. But, without the usable power to propell it through the corners, It'd still be useless.

All of this applies to the normal saturn, not the supercharged one. That one has a chance.

[sisforsurfing]

Originally Posted by TurboTagTeam

Your on the right track

I forgot about volkwagons. That's my pick. Any volkwagon enthusiast will tell you to go with the 1.6L Turbo. There is a huge aftermarket for them. You could eaisly get a Gti into the 13's or lower. I got smoked by one last year in my turbo civic. He ran low 12's with a upgraded turbo, exhaust, fuel mods, and a tune.

Agreed with this. The 1.8t is a very, very good engine. People are pushing 400 whp on stock internals, and with bolt ons (chip, downpipe, exhaust) they can be quick cars, especially on the highway. I'd go with a 1.8t-powered Jetta or GTI over any of the other cars considering your requirement and money available.

Originally Posted by 99SL2_Modder

Why? Everyone says that, but no one has a legit reason.


So, reliable doesn't apply to something that just needs tuneups and oil changes to last +500k miles and gets upper 30's to lower and even mid 40's on gas mileage.

Gee, must have gone all wrong on that one.

Legitimate reason: people don't want to buy Saturns. That IS the reason. They're made of plastic, are horribly underpowered, and burn oil. You've given more reasons to not buy Saturns than anyone on this site. It's not personal at all, but I just don't see why you would encourage someone to put money into a car that has very little background with people making good power and notoriously has almost no traction. They're economy cars and do a good job at that. And there are a few quick ones out there, but it's just not the right platform for what he's looking for.

edit: turbotagteam got to it first.

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by TurboTagTeam

Saturns should in no way be accociated with performance. They were never designed to go anywere in a fast manner. They are saposto go to the grocery store with your four children and defiantly take the hits from the shopping karts in the parking lot.

Yes, people have found ways to make them faster than stock, but IMO it is a lost cause. You still have your self a car that was made to do the opposite you are trying to make it into.

Why to people hook up saturns? I really don't know. I know that with some suspension a saturn might handle somwhat decent. But, without the usable power to propell it through the corners, It'd still be useless.

All of this applies to the normal saturn, not the supercharged one. That one has a chance.

Wow, honda's are exactly the same. Go figure.

For what little research anyone on this site actually does into the car, you all seem to apparently "know" so much about them. Little power? 124bhp to propell a 2200lb car is nothing. They're far from underpowered. As a matter of fact, the engine is underrated, being that most manuals DYNO at 117. Propelling it through the corners? Very very few sport compacts use a fully independent suspension. Especially in a car when new cost under 17k.

Do you even know what a normal saturn is? Did you even know that the Redline's suspension is exactly the same as my mom's non-supercharged quad coupe? Did you know that they removed a fully independent suspension in favor of one that can't handle the turns? The stock s-series suspension blows away anything that saturn has come out with, including the Sky. The worst thing about it was spring rates.

And unlike Honda, EVERYTHING is factory adjustable. Caster? Just move the front struts in grooves. Camber? You can use the caster grooves OR strut to knuckle bolts...in both FRONT AND REAR...stock adjustments can go +/- 3.5 degrees. Toe? Easy. Front is standard tierods, rear is lateral links.

The suspension on a saturn is on par with many sports cars. The only thing it's lacking is proper aftermarket support for better valved struts and better spring rates. I could garantee you that a saturn with rates like yours and properly valved struts that it could handle as well, if not better than your car. Granted, I did NOT say as fast. It's true that the engine lacks oomph, but it's not meant to be an omgsportscar. Saturn WAS in development for much more powerful engines, but we all know what happens when GM sees a line starting to get too far ahead of the sales of other cars.

You want originality? Modify a saturn. You want something everyone else does? VW, Mazda, Honda, Mustang, pick it. There's a ton of "me too's" on this board, flocking to a brand just because it's what everyone else does. No one has the gall to take a car with next to 0 aftermarket support and play with it. You all seem to forget that Saturn has only been around since 1991. No aftermarket support? THe company is the youngest out there. They had no time to establish themselves.

Originally Posted by sisforsurfing

Legitimate reason: people don't want to buy Saturns. That IS the reason. They're made of plastic, are horribly underpowered, and burn oil. You've given more reasons to not buy Saturns than anyone on this site. It's not personal at all, but I just don't see why you would encourage someone to put money into a car that has very little background with people making good power and notoriously has almost no traction. They're economy cars and do a good job at that. And there are a few quick ones out there, but it's just not the right platform for what he's looking for.

The only thing horribly underpowered is the research people do into a car. Burn oil. Gee, name an engine that doesn't. Most Saturns do NOT burn oil. Just ones that are mistreated. Made of plastic? So what's wrong with that? They've proven safer time and time again than most cars in their class. I know people that have survived from triple t-bones, 4 rolls, and all sorts of that while in a saturn. The cars are amazingly well built, but again, society can't believe that anything that's not solid steel is safe. Think again. Behind those "plastic" panels is the same material your precious 12point cages are built out of.

I encourage people to put money into a car that has very little backround because modding the car in general makes you feel good about being able to do things few people can do. These cars have tons of potential. They HAVE no backround or aftermarket support because people stereotype a name. Aftermarket companies were for months saying they would make nothing for the Ion Redline because it was a saturn, but would make parts for the Cobalt SS Supercharged. News flash: Same car, except the IRL is 2/10ths of a second faster than the Cobalt. (Though, from number crunching, no one can figure out why...and the Cobalt still looks better).

Why don't they have traction? Gee, it COULD be because the LL0 actually makes torque. Wait, did I say torque? Yes, I did. It's a 4cyl that makes torque without power adders. Why is this bad? Because a turbo on it would create torque that's near the same as the horsepower (unless your name is tebriel and you make 240whp and 462wtq). Of course, traction bars would help in this, but gee, wouldn't you figure? There's no aftermarket support because again, the car is stereotyped.

I could name at least 3 street legal Saturns, that could rip just about everyone on this board apart in a race. Again, the quarter mile, no, but from anything else, yes. (Excluding Steve(I think that's his name)s Cobra...cause that thing is just sick...and probably a couple other cars that I know are on here.

As for not being the right platform? How isn't it? He technically should just get a beater until he's out of school. Something reliable. Perfect platform. Why mod your daily? VW's are notorious for failures under modification. Honda would be his best bet if he's looking for conformity and modding a daily driver.

Almost no one on this board has done enough, if any, research on Saturns to even begin to start making a fight on how they're worthless.

[Vypurr]

If you same a little more cash, you could buy an SRT-4. $14k would get you one. Maybe less if u find a deal. They are 13 second cars. Reliable. FWD. And 4-Door...

[sisforsurfing]

The SRT-4 is also a good choice... I'd pick the VW over it as a daily driver (personal preference), but they're both great and the SRT is much faster.

99SL2- I'm not going to argue about it. He wants a reliable, 13-ish second car. You've stated the car doesn't have the adequate aftermarket support to be that. There are easier better, better ways to have a fun, somewhat fast car. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with taking the beaten path.

I have nothing against you and really nothing against Saturns as cars. Also, the IRL is a whole different story.

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by vypurr@revitup

If you same a little more cash, you could buy an SRT-4. $14k would get you one. Maybe less if u find a deal. They are 13 second cars. Reliable. FWD. And 4-Door...

Another good choice. Just not my preference. And actually, for 12k, he might be able to nab a couple of the higher mileage ones. Then again, buying a used sporty car is usually a bad idea.

Originally Posted by sisforsurfing

The SRT-4 is also a good choice... I'd pick the VW over it as a daily driver (personal preference), but they're both great and the SRT is much faster.

99SL2- I'm not going to argue about it. He wants a reliable, 13-ish second car. You've stated the car doesn't have the adequate aftermarket support to be that. There are easier better, better ways to have a fun, somewhat fast car. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with taking the beaten path.

I have nothing against you and really nothing against Saturns as cars. Also, the IRL is a whole different story.

I agree. I'd take a dub over the SRT-4. Again, nothing against SRT-4's, but I have my reasoning, which I won't bring up since not many people care.

A reliable 13ish second car is very hard to find for the price he's putting out. At least, not one that needs work, or could possibly use work from abuse. Buying sporty cars that carry the insurance costs to boot USED usually is a bad idea. Think about it, and you'll see why. I agree, there are many many easier ways to have a fun, somewhat quick car. I just enjoy having to put more work into my car rather than taking a path that's already cut. Not adequate aftermarket support, true, but just because no one has done it n/a yet doesn't mean it can't be done. Most just get the boost bug and skip right over to that. The 14.2s car I mentioned was just some light mods with nitrous. No-nitrous runs came out 14.2, nitrous runs came out 13.3. It was an easy out for that car. Note that it's also not street legal and currently the fastest s-body saturn that still uses the LL0. (running 11's, should be in the 10's if they ever tune it, maybe faster...has a traction issue on 24" slicks with trackbite).

I just wonder why so many people here have an issue with Saturns. You said you don't, and I appreciate the fact you acknowledge that they're still a car.

[xEJ20x]

There is a few WRXs for sale in the South Jersey area.