Toyota Sabotaged?

[OBEEWON]

I've been listening to all the reports and hyped up stories about the Toyota fiasco and I cant help but wonder, "were Toyota's vehicles sabotaged?" Im sure you guys have heard about GM and Ford lobbying the government to clean up grey market import cars such as the GTR, and this makes me wonder if they possibly could have gotten their hands in Toyota.

Toyota is known for quality above all. BUT since 2000 Toyota has increased their US presence and established plants and facilities in the US, some commercials even boast of specific cars BUILT entirely in the US. This would definitely allow more access to the brand than ever. Could Toyota have been infiltrated? Crazier things have happened!

The US auto makers have been recently bailed out too! It was announced today that Hummer was turned down by China and will be killed baring someone stepping in last minute. Sales have been paltry for US auto makers and Toyota, Japans largest company, is their biggest rivalry. Who better to go after?

Also do not forget that the US govt owns the controlling share of GM. A risk heavily criticized by the US people. Since their takeover no gains have been shown. Their band aid cash for clunker program barely kept automakers heads above water, and guess which company actually benefited the most?? Toyota!!!

In the hearings Toyota has only found to culprits for the accell problems but still have some unexplained. Strange.

They also had a woman who lost 4 family members to a Lexus among one who was a off duty cop. A fact that was greatly played up.

Could this be a plan B???

[TNTramair]

are you implying a conflict of interest with the Government and GM????? carefull....Bender will be in here soon to down play that conspiricy theory.

sorry, but if you look up a recent Toyota thread, you'll see why i posted.

on a serious note...no i dont think someone sabotaged toyota however i do believe the Gov. is now involved due to the fact they now have a common interest. they have everything to benefit in trying to bring down Toyota. increased sales for GM and Ford would the main reason.

[Renegade_]

When the car starts running away, why don't people put it in neutral?

Really, this boggled my mind. I dont get how a defect like this could kill anyone who knows how a car functions on a basic level.

[Xclusive_Russ]

Originally Posted by Renegade_

When the car starts running away, why don't people put it in neutral?

Really, this boggled my mind. I dont get how a defect like this could kill anyone who knows how a car functions on a basic level.

Do more research, I believe it some wouldn't shift when the accelerator is at 100%. Theres more to it than that.

[TNTramair]

Originally Posted by Xclusive_Russ

Do more research, I believe it some wouldn't shift when the accelerator is at 100%. Theres more to it than that.

not true. you can push your shifter forward into neutral at any time. WOT or otherwise, doesnt matter. there's a reason why you can shift the car into neautral without pressing the lock button.

[jpalamar]

This thread is worthless without brains lol. No one sabotaged anything. Toyota got successful, they skimped on parts and quality in lue of profits, and now it is biting them in the ass. Sounds like a typical corporation. /END THREAD

[Bender]

Originally Posted by TNTramair

are you implying a conflict of interest with the Government and GM????? carefull....Bender will be in here soon to down play that conspiricy theory.

No conspiracy at all. Toyoda yesterday himself said exactly why it happened - they grew too fast and were too worried about growth and profit over the quality of their vehicles.

It says a lot for them that even with their focus their vehicles have still be largely excellent. When GM did the same thing in the 80s and 90s quality tanked across the board...

As for the feds doing it to make GM more money... I don't buy it. I DO think that they are making a bigger deal out of it because it is an election year and they are all worried for their seats.

[russiankid]

To add, what happened to slamming the brakes and turning the car off? Only the logical thing to do if you couldn't put it into neutral.

[OBEEWON]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

This thread is worthless without brains lol. No one sabotaged anything. Toyota got successful, they skimped on parts and quality in lue of profits, and now it is biting them in the ass. Sounds like a typical corporation. /END THREAD

Any proof they skimped on parts? Did they buy from Godspeed or XXR? lol They get alot of parts from the same place Chrysler and Ford do including thier accellerator pedals so there goes that.

President has identified two culprits but there remains some unexplained instances. How a company like Toyota can't pinpoint a cause makes me suspicious.

Originally Posted by Renegade_

When the car starts running away, why don't people put it in neutral?

Really, this boggled my mind. I dont get how a defect like this could kill anyone who knows how a car functions on a basic level.

I agree. The officer in the lexus got up to 126mph before he crashed!!

So many things can be done. E-brake, nuetral, turn the car off, I don't know a breaking system that cannot stall a car out unless its jammed by a floor mat.

[Bender]

There are two other (one extremely) extensive threads on this - would suggest you take a look at those as they have plausible explanations for all of this.

[motorvated]

Obeewon, most threads on this forum suck...but I actually read and thought about your post. I agree, something is fishy...especially for a company like Toyota. They dont make this kind of mistake. I guess time will tell whos right, and what really happened.

[itsSTock69]

Wow... I guess some people can't handle the possibility that Toyota actually f'd up. Nice to see that you're trivializing peoples' deaths to downplay the seriousness of the situation too. These double standards annoy the hell out of me. If it were any of the domestic makes in this position you would be having a field day, yet when an issue with Toyota pops up, well, it must be a conspiracy. They wanted to become the biggest and the best, which is completely understandable, but with that position comes the magnifying glass.

As for the brakes or putting it in neutral, who knows. There have been reports stating a million different things. I've read accounts saying that shifting to neutral had no effect, the brakes didn't work, the operator didn't think to shift, etc etc etc.

[motorvated]

I dont think its that people cant handle it..I could honestly give a crap if you buy a ford and it blows up killing your entire family. I also dont care if your gas pedal gets stuck in your toyota. See a pattern? I dont care what company it was. I think the possibility of foul play is always a good option to look into. Especially for something like this.

[FocusDude]

Paltry sales is an understatement for most companies. The difference in sales for every automaker have been terrible, Hyundai and Kia are the only one's posting positive number in car sales for '09. Toyota sales are down about 20% in '09 from '08. And we can see which way they are headed in '10. True GM's and Dodge are down 30% and 36%, respectably, but Fords is down 15% from the same term. Slowly over the past decade Ford's reliability & quality has gone from garbage to the top of the list. They are also now making car's people want to drive. Toyota builds reliable bland cars, you take the reliability out of it and there's no reason to drive it. Every automaker has bad periods and of course it will bruise more for a foreign car maker. But to claim sabotage is a little far fetched. But Toyota will have to reinvent itself, maybe they will shift the scooby/yota project in to high gear?

I'm clueless below so bare with me if its completely insane.
I was under the impression it's coming down on the software not allowing the brakes to be over-rode. Options to disengage the accelerator were tried, but failed. Like the cars computer was being controlled by something else other then the driver's controls. I'd like to know if with all the computerization in cars, can they get virus like your desktop? What if a piece of information was deleted somehow? Not having physical connections worries me kinda.

[turboman808]

I'm sure toyota is at fault. The problem is being hyped up because of GM and US Gov ties, not a doubt in my mind.

If you guys can recall that jeeps were the biggest culprits for the car driving high speed out of control. The reason is the pedals are pushed to the side to make room for the transfer case. People were pressing the gas thinking it was the brake and flying down the street killing people and themselves.

Nothing happened with that. They continued to make these cars for the next 40 years like that.



This kind of stuff is going to get worse before it gets better. I really love the new XKR and if it wasn't for me gettting engaged I would buy one today. That car has electronic everything. The key doesn't go in the ignition, the shifter is shift by wire, pedals are shift by wire. Imagine the kind of issues that could cause if it went wrong.

[OBEEWON]

Originally Posted by itsSTock69

Nice to see that you're trivializing peoples' deaths to downplay the seriousness of the situation too.

Don't put words in my mouth brosef. I would never trivialize something as terrible as a death.

Originally Posted by itsSTock69

Wow... I guess some people can't handle the possibility that Toyota actually f'd up. These double standards annoy the hell out of me. If it were any of the domestic makes in this position you would be having a field day, yet when an issue with Toyota pops up, well, it must be a conspiracy.

This thread is in no way conclusive. More like a what if or is it possible. If you could possibly put all pre concieved notions and biases aside a rational person would have to admit there are some facts that lead to more possibilities.

I really don't care about American vs. Japanese stuff and nowhere in my original post did I alude to that so that arguement has no relevance.

Anyway can anyone remember the Firestone incident? Where the tires on Ford Explorers were exploding and rolling over at high speeds? There was never a public hearing or FBI agents raiding facilities. In fact that hooplah didn't last long. Just in simple comparison there seems to be a little bias going on.

[Fujito]

As of now this is all just a conspiracy theory. There are no facts to back anything up.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US government had something to do with all of this. Governments commit evils for the greater good sometimes... Pearl Harbor, 911, and... Toyota crashing and burning? Hmm I dunno. All conspiracy theories, right?

Oh, and before anyone takes that Pearl Harbor comment out of context, I'm referring to the theories that state the Government knew about the attack and allowed it to gain a legitimate entrance into the war.

[OBEEWON]

Originally Posted by FocusDude

I'm clueless below so bare with me if its completely insane.
I was under the impression it's coming down on the software not allowing the brakes to be over-rode. Options to disengage the accelerator were tried, but failed. Like the cars computer was being controlled by something else other then the driver's controls. I'd like to know if with all the computerization in cars, can they get virus like your desktop? What if a piece of information was deleted somehow? Not having physical connections worries me kinda.

There are always conflicting reports so I could be wrong as well. BUT from the reports Ive heard on the news Toyota has tested and found that the electronics have no flaw. This is why they are clueless as to some of the incidents.

Now Toyota has possibly the BEST engineers in the auto industry. MAYBE second to Mercedes. I find it wierd that they can't track down the problem UNLESS they are covering it up which is very possible.

Originally Posted by motorvated

Obeewon, most threads on this forum suck...but I actually read and thought about your post. I agree, something is fishy...especially for a company like Toyota. They dont make this kind of mistake. I guess time will tell whos right, and what really happened.

Thanks. Im just trying to get people to think which seems hard for most members of TST to do. Anything not backed by the government is stamped as a conspiracy or un American.

[itsSTock69]

Originally Posted by motorvated

I dont think its that people cant handle it..I could honestly give a crap if you buy a ford and it blows up killing your entire family. I also dont care if your gas pedal gets stuck in your toyota. See a pattern? I dont care what company it was. I think the possibility of foul play is always a good option to look into. Especially for something like this.

I see the pattern and take the same stance. I'm a car enthusiast first, fan of certain makes second. I also think that when people are dying there needs to be some accountability, especially when some of those deaths could have been prevented. The possiblility of foul play always exists, but the risk far outweighs the reward in this instance. This has become, and was always going to become, a high profile incident, imagine the backlash if it were to come out that it was all by the government's doing. If this were the plan they would be better off having just kept their money and let whatever was going to happen, happen. Just because Toyota can't fully explain why this is happening doesn't discount the fact that it is. It's like saying you can't figure out a math problem with multiple steps, so some of the steps must not exist.

[itsSTock69]

Originally Posted by OBEEWON

Don't put words in my mouth brosef. I would never trivialize something as terrible as a death.

You said the death was greatly played up. If I misinterpreted that statement, then I appologize.

Originally Posted by OBEEWON

This thread is in no way conclusive. More like a what if or is it possible. If you could possibly put all pre concieved notions and biases aside a rational person would have to admit there are some facts that lead to more possibilities.

I really don't care about American vs. Japanese stuff and nowhere in my original post did I alude to that so that arguement has no relevance.

Anyway can anyone remember the Firestone incident? Where the tires on Ford Explorers were exploding and rolling over at high speeds? There was never a public hearing or FBI agents raiding facilities. In fact that hooplah didn't last long. Just in simple comparison there seems to be a little bias going on.

I am putting my pre-concieved notions aside. As I said in my previous post, I am a fan of cars first, certain makes second. If I were a domestic nuthugger as you seem to be implying, then why in the world would I drive a glorified Honda Accord. There are cars from every single make I would love to own or at the very least drive someday, so yeah, that comment doesn't hold any water.

And Ford did get raked over the coals, just as Toyota is now. They went in front of Congress and were blasted for what they did too.