Patriotism, heritage, immigration, and tradition: discuss!
 

Got into a bit of a discussion in another thread so put your 2 cents in. When is being a patriot taken out of context, what are your views on immigration, etc.

Our country is in a recession and unemployement is at an all time high, yet OUR governemnt allows people here on work visa. I think they should all be given 90 days to return to their home country.

Personally, I think that should be the case regardless of the economy. Call me racist, whatever, I really don't care. If you wanna come over, come over legally. Furthermore, if you are in my country, you GOD DAMN BETTER WELL SPEAK ENGLISH! I don't care if you speak in your native language to your immigrant friends or family, but if you talk to me, you better speak english. As far as all the bull**** about not being able to say "Merry Christmas" but instead, "Happy Holidays" and all that crap, those people can suck a nut. Christmas is my holiday and I don't give a **** what you think about it. Maybe you should not say happy Kwanzaa or happy Hanukkah.

Wow... I do agree about the speaking English but that is a generalization on your part. I do agree that government forms and stuff at stores should be printed in ONLY English. But how can you say since they came here they better know our language. If you went to Europe would you know one of their countries languages the minute you got there. It does take time to learn a language, but they also won't kiss you ass like we do and not motivate you to learn it as our Spanish signs and stuff do.

I've always said happy holidays, it's better than guessing who is jewish, christian, muslim, etc.

So its OK for YOU to celebrate YOUR belief and others not to? Just tring to figure out what makes you special. I thought the US was founded by people of all beliefs?

I do celebrate Christmas and all, but it doesn't matter to me if my calender says happy holidays or Merry Christmas, either way I'm off and get to spend time with my family.

I didn't say other people shouldn't celebrate their own holidays, but I am saying I should be able to say what I want in my country about my holiday. I could give a hoot if a jewish family has happy Hanukkah plastered everywhere, it is their holiday and that is fine. I am just saying I shouldn't have to censor myself for other people in a situation such as this. And about the whole english thing, if I was going to move to another country (whether legal or illegal, but that is irrelevant) I would learn the language they speak, I wouldn't expect them to have to cater to me. If your on vacation, that's one thing. I'm not gonna take months and months of learning just for a vacation but I would at least bring a translation book. However, for them to come to our country, to LIVE here, they should HAVE to speak our language. I really don't care about "well its not fair for them thats prejudice etc". Thats BS.

Allllrriiggghhhtttt, seems like some people have their panties in a bunch.

1) Armyguy. You need to calm down. I'm sorry you lost your friends, I respect you for doing what you are doing/have done, it is a very big sacrifice that does not get acknowledged enough IMO. But you are to be held to a higher standard than civilians. You should know this. Unless the Army does not teach this. I know that the Marines taught me to hold myself and other Marines to a higher standard in ALL situations, which I do my best to uphold even not being active duty anymore. When the majority of this forum was a freshman in High School or in Grade School, I was wearing utilities screaming "Yes Sir".

2) 240sxdan. Take a step back and read your post. It just made you seem ignorant as hell. Have some respect for other people's beliefs. If you celebrate Christmas, awesome, if someone else celebrates Hanukkah, awesome. What I don't like to see are these holidays being watered down because someone might be "offended". If you get offended by a fat bearded man in a red jump suit, or by the manora (i know i butchered that). . . you have issues.

3) Alex . . . stop instigating ****.

The point is. . the country was founded to get away from persecution and freedom. We have people that protect that freedom, respect that. Now, I agree slightly with the language issues. Yes, I hate walking into a store with a clerk that barely speaks english. BUT, that person does need to learn. If people are speaking their native tongue within their circle or their community. Awesome, but if you are in the work force, etc . . . learn it. I can not stand the fact that I pick up a bottle of Dish Soap, and I have to flip it around to get to the "english" side. That's crap. . .

I could go on and on about this. But I'm not. I said what I wanted to say.

I understand what dan is saying about the whole holiday thing. YOu should just say merry Christmas if you have Christmas, and if you are jewish then say happy hunakuah. No need for this happy holidays stuff unless speaking to a group of people. English should be spoke by all that enter this country and work in it. If you are not working then speak your language but dont run a pizza shop and not understand half the words coming out of my mouth. Illegals should be kicked out one by one. We need to get a handle on this and quickly it is killing america and we are blows tons of cash on people that have disrespected america and all that we stand for. If you come in the legal way then by all means please stay and do as you please.

"you" shouldn't and "you" don't have to. it's just polite and also doesn't come across as being dis-respectful to others. it's like saying hi, it's a polite way to greet someone, "you" can say **** you, but it doesn't hold the same value.

the funny thing is... this country is based on having individual rights. but people don't like that, they want blanket rules, but then when the government tries to give them that, they complain about it and how they are loosing their individual rights...

240sx most people immagrants do learn the language, that doesn't mean they choose to speak it everywhere. i think you're whole argument is quite immature and ignorant. give me reasons why they shouldn't speak their native language in a country based upon diversity? how does it effect you? why does it bother you so much?

I agree. Having a 3 or 6 month work visa is fine. But after that they should either become a US citizen or return to their country. And I think wor visa's shouldn't be able to be renewed consecutively.


Agreed also. English is quickly becoming a world buisness language, and not to sound like an ass but I think MOST people should learn the english language.

THIS is what pisses me off. Yes, their are english translations in other countries but their for mostly tourists (ie signs, train schedules, etc.). I dont wanna go into a supermarket and see an english and spanish sign. We are enabling them to be lazy and not take the language seriously. I think english lessons should be a manditory part of becoming a citizen.



the worst part of illegal immigrants is that most of the money they make they send home to their family's. Anyone using illegal's as employees is abusing the system and has as much love for amerca as the immigrants.

And most civilized nations do, I know in Italy kids are taught English in grade school.


It's the ignorant ones that don't want to speak English even though they do know how to.

Why should I press "1" for English?

And I agree that it is messed up that places/business's/schools aren't allowed to put up Santa Clause & other traditional American decorations during holidays because of our respect to other religions. If you live in America, yes you should celebrate American Holidays & be allowed to show off your pride for tradition. But we can still respect other religions.

That's what I was saying....if you wanna celebrate your own holidays great but don't make me not show my holiday spirit for MY holiday by not allowing me to saying Merry Christmas etc. Everybody else should show their holiday spirit for their own holiday as well.

How does it effect me? It effects me when some illegal mexican calls me at work, and I can't understand a single word they are saying and they get mad. I'll sell you whatever you want, but if I can understand WTF you are even saying, I can't help you. And also like said in another post, when I walk in an AMERICAN store, I expect the employees to SPEAK and UNDERSTAND english. So yea, it does bother me. And if you go back and read my post, I said if they want to speak their own language to their friends and family who speak the same language, awesome for them. BUT, they should have to learn english so that the rest of us who DON'T speak their language can communicate with them even on a basic level. Habla español? NO mother****er, I don't.

Why do we have so many political threads. You're not going to get any cooperative or constructive conversation out of them, just further entrenchment. This is as useless as debates.

send the guy ethug.txt dialogues

240SX Dann......you need to understand that english is one of the hardest languages to learn. Majority of AMERICANS can't properly write papers, reports and etc according to our own language rules. And this isn't british english, I mean our english. And the whole understanding thing depends on the person. I'm a first generation American, that means my parents are immigrants from Nigeria. My parents speak english perfectly fine, but the funny thing is IGNORANT ASSHOLES hear their accent and treat them like ****. Believe it or not, majority of the time it isn't the immigrants fault. It's the listener's fault because if you were more patient you would more than likely understand what they are saying. Instead of having this arrogant know all attitude, shut the **** up and open your ears and clear your mind.

And you need to realize not all of them have the time nor means to go out and take ESL classes. Alot of the immigrants that come here do it for a better chance for their kids and that's their primary focus. Hence why they dont seek the resources to better themselves. They just bust their ass and make due with what they have while showing their kids the way.

And who gives a rat's ass about holiday....is it really that big of a concern? Does that cause you to lose sleep or make you sick to your stomach when you think about it? Are you REALLY that oppressed because you can't say Merry ****ING CHRISTMAS???? On a day that isn't even Jesus's birthday but just a halmark holiday like many of our holidays. That are simply used to boost the economy in down turn times?????

Christmas is not american IT IS CHRISTIAN BASED. AMERICA IS NOT A THEOCRACY. MEANING NO NATIONAL RELIGION.....omfg go to a god damn history class.

I agree with the language. I didn't spend several years learning English just to have some Mexican get luxury and have **** written in Spanish. And about being a true American...what makes up a true American? America is the blend of different cultures...


Also to add, 50% of Americans cannot speak English correctly, nor write a paper. For the most part, immigrants speak English correctly, and I am not saying that because I am one. Immigrants take the English language seriously because they come to America for a reason and that reason is to earn a better life.

english is ****ing easy to learn. try russian or better yet anything using symbols (japanese chinese etc) and have fun.....

english is easy and its global. yes the mexicans should learn it. after all, same russians that youre bitching about speaking russian also speak english. all of them just about, unless theyre 10 and just came over lol

I like America. No, I love America. But there is so much ignorance in this country within our own citizens, that it's hard to expect immigrants to learn the language so quickly. I went to a big high school, 3rd largest in Pennsylvania or something.. kids of all backgrounds and what not, it's a very diverse area around here. However, I do agree to an extent that it's America and I think everyone (be it a citizen or not) should make an effort to learn the language. There's people on here every day that mutilate English and I'm sure it's their native language. I too am peeved when I get recordings that tell you to push a button for English. I'm okay with "Apriete numero dos for Espanol" or whatever the heck it says, but I think generally speaking, English should be the default.

Being asian though, I can't tell you the countless examples of ignorance I've encountered over the years. Can't tell you how many times people have said, "You're asian, do you think you can translate this for me?" I've also had people yell fairly loudly at me, expecting me to not understand English (as if volume affects understanding a foreign language)

Armyguy, however, seems a little extreme.