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Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleMonkey (Post 1556099)

Lol I was joking about the suspension thing.

I blew the differential today. Sweet.

How'd you do that? :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostinsidewayz (Post 1556010)

ciotti is talking about stock WORKING suspension. not steel tubes with slinkies around them

LOL!

Did a pull from a dig. First I slipped the clutch then second I heard a loud clunk. Every time the car moves it clunks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleMonkey (Post 1556099)

I blew the differential today. Sweet.

In the red supra? youve had that thing what... a month now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 1556018)

I'm still going to have to disagree with you here.

You can make a slammed car handle well, perhaps not as well as an almighty "AutoX" car but it can handle well.

And as far as the things you've pointed out, assuming you're dealing with a well supported chassis (like a 240sx or even a Civic) you can remedy them.

You really just can't admit to being wrong about anything can you? You're wrong brother but it's ok that you're wrong, we're all wrong sometimes even the all mighty Dustin, no one will think less of you that you're wrong dude I promise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciotti (Post 1556142)

If that's what this is all about then here:

Slammed cars handle and drive like total crap, some would refer to the way they drive as epic fail. There are too many variables in the suspension geometry as well as too many moving parts that are throw out of order when the car is lowered beyond a certain point. I retract all of my previous statements discussing how to make slammed cars handle well because no matter what slammed cars drive like crap.

Essentially, The All-Mighty Dustin or "TheFro" as he is known in many circles, is wrong and will no longer spread false information throughout the internet. From this point forward he will just drive and build cars and prove his point this way, not through internet conversation.

Cliff Notes: I was wrong, Ciotti was right.

Thanks for adding the cliff note Fro! Lmao helped alot

What we have learned here: Dont argue with Ciotti about suspension

*raises hand* ummm my car is pretty dropped or "slammed" with tokico struts and eibach springs, which is not cheap and i hear every bump on the road when i drive on the street. but when i was on the track last week it felt beatiful. i take some ramps and decent speeds and my car follows the ground very smoothly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleMonkey (Post 1556129)

Did a pull from a dig. First I slipped the clutch then second I heard a loud clunk. Every time the car moves it clunks.

don't you have that one in your garage or something? or juts take the one off your black car

Parts cars ftw! All that power of the all mighty supra shreaded your diff haha very nice...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciotti (Post 1555585)

Yes always, the end.

You can't take away 2+ inches of suspension bump travel from a car and still have it drive and/or handle properly anywhere other than race tracks, you just can't and that's the end of it. The car will either pound into the bump stops constantly which induces about the worst thing possible which is infinite spring rate or you will have to run such an extreme spring rate that it may as well be on the bloody bump stops! Car companies spend millions of dollars on R&D to build a car's suspension, you just can't chop 2 inches of travel off of what they built without seriously affecting the handling and/or ride quality, it's physics, it can't be argued. Lowering a car effects so many more things than just bump steer, just off the top of my head, roll center, camber, anti-dive, ackerman, scrub radius, the list goes on and on. Look at built up track day cars or autocross cars that are still using factory suspension components and %99 of them that are fast are at sane ride heights.

Come out to an autocross and I'll take you out for a ride in a car that truly corners well so that you have a proper benchmark of what does and doesn't handle well :)

I do understand what Ciotti is saying. Hes not saying that it will handle like **** necessarily, but rather that your going to sacrific ride quality on the street which is where everybodys car is driven 90% of the time.

He says that while it may function on the track it will not be a practical street car where it has to deal with uneven surfaces, unlike the prepped surfaces of the track. On the street, for a comfortable ride you still need adequate suspension travel to deal w/ bumps, potholes etc...

This whole debate over slammed cars is stupid. He never didnt say that slammed cars suck, but more or less slammed STREET cars suck in terms of ride quality

i think most people slam their cars realizing the fact that they are going to ride like crap. i know this and im still going to slam it eventually.

You slam it to make it low to the ground and tuck tire,not to ride well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleMonkey (Post 1556129)

Did a pull from a dig. First I slipped the clutch then second I heard a loud clunk. Every time the car moves it clunks.

May not necessarily be your differential. Check your driveshaft first. My VR4 did the same thing last year. It ended being a failed U-joint on the driveshaft. Get under your car and twist the individual u-joints with your hands and see if there is and play in them. If there is, get another driveshaft.

Also, whoever thinks that lowering a car is detrimental to performance, has never driven a DSM with stock suspension VS a lowered DSM. A properly lowered DSM can compete with an Evolution in terms of handling.

keep the black car for when you break stuff on the red car :)

Got me wondering when my trans / diff is gonna let go. Good ol' phantom slip is still holdin up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl@ckvr4 (Post 1556304)

May not necessarily be your differential. Check your driveshaft first. My VR4 did the same thing last year. It ended being a failed U-joint on the driveshaft. Get under your car and twist the individual u-joints with your hands and see if there is and play in them. If there is, get another driveshaft.

Also, whoever thinks that lowering a car is detrimental to performance, has never driven a DSM with stock suspension VS a lowered DSM. A properly lowered DSM can compete with an Evolution in terms of handling.

/\/\/\

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin S (Post 1556325)

Got me wondering when my trans / diff is gonna let go. Good ol' phantom slip is still holdin up.

get it right kawi, its a phantom grip.