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maybe it does have the loaded indicator and i just never noticed it haha, as far as 40 it sucks there a reason its called a 40S&W (short and weak) its a cut down 10mm with less stopping power than a 45 and travels basically the same speed as a 9mm with less capacity (unless your willing to carry a massive full size which still holds less rounds than most 9mm compacts.)

It basically falls into a total fail category, people that cant handle a 45 but are mistaken in thinking a 9mm is too weak. To me it seems like an afterthought round (actually thats exactly how it came to be, the FBI didnt like the recoil of a 10mm but thought the 9 didnt have the stopping power they wanted, which is not the case with most quality modern 9mm rounds)...

For example (from ammo and ballistics 4 by Forker) Federal hydra-shok 165 grain JHP leaves the muzzle at 980fps from a 40 with a 4" barrel (1 in 16 twist), the same federal round round in 124 grain (a much lighter projectile) leaves a 4" 9mm barrel with a 1 in 10 twist @ 1120fps.

A guns energy is measured in ft-lbs, the 40 S&W has 350 ft-lbs @ the muzzle the 9mm has 345 ft-lbs @ the muzzle, while the 9mm falls off slightly before the 40s&w that doesnt happen until after 15-20 yards, way farther than most people will be using either round (lets be honest, a threat @ 15-20 yards isnt actually a threat yet)

Similar results can basically be seen across the board when comparing the two calibers with the same brand ammunition.

I would absolutely be willing to give up 5 ft-lbs of energy for a faster moving projectile and a higher capacity out of a more concealable firearm.

/ end schooling. :mrgreen: <3 you

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Brian~ (Post 1897417)

All of this may be true, but if push comes to shove, my .40 will drop somebody just as fast as your .9mm or .45 will, especially with the rounds I carry.

Even with that being the case, Wabbit, you need to decide for yourself. One of the most important things you need to look at when picking a carry gun is how well you can shoot it under pressure. Before you buy, try out a few guns to see what fits you best. After that, spend time with the gun at the range and get a feel for her.

I have a glock already I like it, I said I was thinking of selling it. If I do I'll pick up a XD to replace it, maybe in 45 or 357.

cmr076

01-19-2011 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWabbit (Post 1897584)

my glock 23 can hold 13+1 its a compact .40 if I can't hit 1 person at 15-20 yards, I have issues. I don't like 9mm its just personal choice nothing to do with stats. but would like to know where you are getting 350ft-lbs cause I'm seeing closer to 480ft-lbs and about 1100 ft/s

I have a glock already I like it, I said I was thinking of selling it. If I do I'll pick up a XD to replace it, maybe in 45 or 357.

what are you using as reference? And i wasnt bashing your choice, just being a dick. I got those numbers from a book called ammo and ballistics by a guy named Forker, It is literally just stats for just about every round that is out now..

::edit:: just read the last part of your post again, the 357 sig is a really cool round, I would urge you to at least shoot one

RedWabbit

01-19-2011 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1897698)

I know you weren't bashing, I was just pointing out that capacity is null unless you are breaching a room with 6 guys in it. as for size, depending on size(full, compact, subcompact) they share the same frame. I could switch out the barrel, recoil rod, magazine, and bam have a 9mm, .357, and I even believe I can go to a 45 as well. its nice to have a gun that you can just swap a couple parts and have a new caliber to play with.

random charts on the internet. which is why I was wondering if you had links or something to show.

my brother has a sub compact glock .357 it was cool but the grip is way to small for me. if you can barely hold it why have it? the punch wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

renn	01-19-2011 11:37 PM

i'm gonna buy either an xd-357 or a glock 32 this summer. definitely gonna shoot both before i buy, but still looking for opinions..

rodder

01-19-2011 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Brian~ (Post 1897515)

Great... now I have to go out and buy a Kimber. Thank dick. :-p

I also approve of this post ^

...and you're welcome. :mrgreen:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWabbit (Post 1897712)

I know you weren't bashing, I was just pointing out that capacity is null unless you are breaching a room with 6 guys in it.

Have you ever heard of someone saying after a gun fight, "dang I really wish I hadn't brought this much ammo"? :wink: :lol:

armyguy6566

01-20-2011 12:00 AM

may be picking up a USP 9mm when i get home.
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/211/...4076a83a39.jpg

~Brian~

01-20-2011 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodder (Post 1897781)

I also approve of this post ^

...and you're welcome. :mrgreen:

Have you ever heard of someone saying after a gun fight, "dang I really wish I hadn't brought this much ammo"? :wink: :lol:

Thank you lol and my .40 carries 16+1 lol

90HP	01-20-2011 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armyguy6566 (Post 1897796)

may be picking up a USP 9mm when i get home.
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/211/...4076a83a39.jpg

i have a hk usp compact 9mm in excellent shape for sale if you are interested.

armyguy6566

01-20-2011 12:40 AM

price? pics?

Munky

01-20-2011 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Brian~ (Post 1897561)

Are you offering to sell that beautiful piece of hardware?

You'll have to pry this one from my cold dead hands. I made the mistake of trading my original Kimber UCII for an AR. I'll be buried with this one. Of all the guns I've owned & shot this is still my favorite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1897577)

Munky i saw your kimber on pafoa.org for the first time and must say that is a hell of a gun you have there and love the all black and punisher grips, do you edc it

Thanks...yeah it's my edc.

SvicksTc

01-20-2011 01:35 AM

Munky thats awesome...

Where do most of you guys conceal your weapon? I have yet to try any postion yet, but I feel im going to be most comfortable with IWB on strong side

Come spring when it gets warm we should have a big get together shoot

armyguy6566

01-20-2011 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1897872)

i vote April because i'll be home. lol

cmr076

01-20-2011 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWabbit (Post 1897712)

random charts on the internet. which is why I was wondering if you had links or something to show.

I get all my info from a physical book (the one i mentioned earlier) its gotta be 700 pages haha It is an AMAZING resource and i highly suggest any avid shooter picks up a copy...

heres a link: http://productsearch.barnesandnoble....lse&r=1&ugrp=1

In other news the hunt for a machine gun has officially begun! I was texting on and off w jordan tonight and he pointed me towards a few great sites (thank you so much for the pictures, links info and dealing with my MG noob questions,), I am fairly certain by june I will have at least two guns with fun switches (I am thinking a FNC sear and M16 registered receiver)

I also have my eye on a few random NFA pieces (serbu,AOW a few of the guns we already have, etc) If anyone has a lead on any of the above ::cough cough:: phillySVT and a FN sear please let me know We will be ready to get the paperwork rolling in a month or so

cmr076

01-20-2011 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1897872)

strong side desantis cozy partner w/ forward cant with my 1911 @ 3:30 position and apache ankle rig or pocket holster for my P238

SvicksTc

01-20-2011 01:52 AM

My 22nd bday is april that could work for me

SvicksTc

01-20-2011 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1897877)

strong side desantis cozy partner w/ forward cant with my 1911 @ 3:30 position and apache ankle rig or pocket holster for my P238

Knew i could count on you, i remember thats the first holster you recommend. Like i said im taking a trip to the store tomorrow to feel them out, i stopped texting because it was getting late ( i know you said you never sleep) ha

Munky

01-20-2011 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1897872)

My carry varies on where I'm going and which gun I'm carrying. For the most part I carry the Kimber in a Comp-tac Settable Cant OWB holster (I opted for the deluxe model which came with both belt attachment & paddle attachment) with a Comp-tac mag pouch w/ Tek-lok. Holster: http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=55

Or I carry it in a IWB Kydex holster from eBay when I need to conceal.

I carry my Glock 19 in either a Blackhawk SERPA CQC OWB http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SER...,1145,1410.htm or a Galco Triton IWB kydex holster. http://www.opticsplanet.net/galco-tr...b-holster.html for a more concealed carry.

All of my holsters are carried strong side in either 3 or 4 o'clock using a Duty-Pro buckle-less nylon belt with internal stiffener from Galls.com. http://www.galls.com/style.html?asso...t=&style=NP313

cmr076

01-20-2011 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1897880)

nope, shopping for machine guns is better than sleep haha

Munky

01-20-2011 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1897880)

Good luck! The problem I have found with most stores is they tend to all carry the same 3-4 brands. I've tried a lot of holsters over the last few months. It's really good to get to the range and have friends let you try their holsters because you'd be amazed at what you like and don't. I have a leather C5 IWB holster for my Kimber and I despise it. I much rather have a kydex holster because of the ease of re-holstering one-handed. I did originally have a Comp-tac M-tac Minotaur IWB holster for the Kimber which was a leather backed holster with kydex body. I liked that holster but I traded it away with my original Kimber. For OWB I recommend either Comp-tac or Atomic Dog. I'm waiting on my Atomic Dog order to come in for both my Glock 19 and my Kimber. :inlove:

Munky

01-20-2011 03:01 AM

Updated EDC...man I didn't realize I lug this much crap around :rofl:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/...92696636_b.jpg

Surefire Model V70 Speed Holster
Surefire G2 Nitrolon 65 Lumen
Gun rights flyers printed from PAFOA.org
Kimber Ultra Carry II w/ Punisher Grips
Comp-tac Settable Cant OWB Kydex Holster
Comp-tac OWB Kydex Mag Pouch w/ Tek-Lok
Kimpro 7rnd Mag loaded with Winchester 45acp 230 grain JHP
Galls Neoprene Gloves
Orbit Gum for my dirty mouth LoL
Truck & House keys
PNY Attache 16gb Flashdrive
Samsung Captivate on AT&T (doubles as a voice & video recorder if the situation requires one)
Duty Pro Nylon belt w/ internal stiffener and velcro closure
Smart-Clip all metal card&money clip
Pocket sized note pad
Pilot G-2 gel pen
Kershaw Leek

*The gloves and flashlight are mainly carried for work (Campus Police @ a local college) and sadly the gun isn't allowed on campus so it gets left behind.

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