my (almost stock) srt-4> every other car

yo guys, a little heated debate is a good thing, but DONT make this personal. of course everyone loves their cars, hopefully there's roomin your heart to love others too (or at least respect them). this debate will be going on until we're flying spaceships and whatnot, so just enjoy it for what it is, continue to debate and make good points, and stay away from making it personal.
carry on...

I love my camaro even though its slow as poo, but back on topic I dont see the point of arguing over cars? Have fun :thumbup:
OT: my spaceship is on back order J/K
< :screwy:

Isn't it silly to have this debate? They're all whole worlds of cars, it's like comparing apples to oranges to trash cans to vibrators. SRT-4's are cheap performance vehicles. Yup, I said it. CHEAP. They get grouped right well there with a bunch of other such oriented cars. American muscle is raw torque, unrefined, and shoddy. Yup, I went there, too. That's why American sports cars are so inexpensive compared to their international counterparts. <Insert Foreign Sports Sedan/coupe here> makes intelligent use of what technology is available. Technology is expensive, hence the larger price tag.

In the end, it's all just a big man-unit waving contest. Who cares? There's always someone faster, or with a more expensive or more well rounded car. Unless you own a veyron 16-4...then you're just a cut above everyone else. ;)

:iagree:

Well its not really silly to debate. Fight over yes, but not if we can keep it clean and informative.

Granted technology costs money but id have to argue that a lot of the production cost associated with european cars goes into their "handmade" interiors. You get what you pay for, its as simple as that. No matter which way you cut it.

Now then, to say that the srt-4 is cheap may be an overstatement. Its cheap for what you get, yes but its not cheap. Imo cheap would be ummm free or something close to it. The srt is a cheap performance vehicle now that is the best statement ive heard all day. And? Whats the point? Its cheap, then again so are used mustangs and nissans.
My whole grip about that statement is that cheap is a strong word. Kinda like hate. Now i agree my car isnt expensive in anyway.... umm thats why i bought it. But its not cheaply made.

As for tourqe and domestics. Yeah once again that can be taken two different ways. The tourque is what allows the domestics to pull through gears rapidly, and do it with 4000+ lbs of steel. I dont understand how your using the word "shody" in your statement either. But to say that the corvette is unrefined is just plain retarded. Ive never seen so many bells and whistles in a car, well a new caddy has more but thats beyond the point. Its not unrefined by anymeans.
Its all really subject to preference. Hell some people look at what were doing (souping up cars) as a joke. To be honest everybody that i talk to about their car history/experiences has said that they regret dumping absurd $$$$'s into them. Just food for thought.

Yes, the corvette is unrefined. The vette/viper/cobra all have a lot of punch, but in comparison to the higher end vehicles coming out of Europe, they just don't hold water. Compare it to a BMW 6 or higher series, a Bentley, Ferrari. You can't equate them. I know you're going to say, "Yeah, but the Bentley cost $XXX,XXX more than the Vette." Whatever, dude. The Continental GT is still a more refined car. And the refinement extends beyond the interior. Your reference to that is pretty naive. Have you ever examined a foreign car's engine? You know, one that cost more than $30,000? You'd have to be 'retarded' to call them unrefined and lacking in technological advance.

And don't feel all ass-hurt because I called your car cheap. I've driven plenty of cheap cars. I recognize them as such. And you should, too. Just because your car has a turbo doesn't mean its god's gift to car-dom.

Modding cars (Souping up? What kind? Minestrone?) is where the knowledgeable get to laugh at the rich. We put half the money in and get twice the performance. But where does the rest of that money mysteriously come from? Hey, you guessed it, your time spent researching and learning it all. It's a toss up one way or another. It costs you either way. I find modding cars to be a great hobby. It's fun. You have to go into it knowing things can go wrong, or like your friends, you'll regret it. Personally, I can't wait to have a heavily modded FD sitting in my garage when I retire.

:mrgreen: I agree, and I dont think $ can determine how refined a car is or how technologically advanced it is, we all buy cars for different reasons, usually when were young we buy "cheap" cars to compensate for not having an expensive car and we make our "cheap" cars expensive by dumping $$ into it until one day when were older and have enough money to buy an expensive quality car that comes with everything. Speed, luxury, comfort, durability, technology, and appearance, we will all look back at our "cheap" cars that only had speed or luxury or one of the desires we wanted in a car, and we added some things to it to make it more appealing, and to satisfy our passion of modifying a car. You dont see Lamborghinis, Farraris, Bentleys being modified and thats because... honestly they dont need to be and thats the reason why we buy "cheap" cars and thats the difference between Countries and there manufacturing of cars, America makes performance and thats pretty much the aspect they look at, thats why theres 90,000$ cars that can compete with 500,000$ cars, but other countries want more then just Power and speed, they want there cars to be classy and the price tag alone of the car says it all when your driving down the street and people are looking or your sitting in your leather heated seats doing 160 on the Autobahn.

U still on that i beat him, man u didnt even have a chance could u even see my license plate son whats good party in my pants

:rotfl: what are u talking about? read my post and stay on topic we were in a large debate about cars and the reason why we do what we do and u come out of nowhere with this post, lmao... I wanna see what u think about this read the last 5 or 6 posts.

Like it was previously stated and SRT-4, even an EVO and an STI are relatively cheap cars, sure theyre fast and yes they do have alot of engineering put into them to make them such for the price tag, they are like exotic cars built with a budget, therefore a lot of sacrifice had to been put into the car the cars will not ride as smooth as a AMG Mercedes Benz or a M5 or a Ferrari or Lamborghini sure they are almost as fast as some of these cars stock, but with the more refined and at the same time expensive cars you get the power plus some other qualities like LUXURY for once, they are also a status quo type a vehicle like no joe shmo will go out and buy a 100k$+ vehicle and drive it around, when you see someone in one of these extremely expensive cars well you know they are rolling in dough or they wouldnt be driving them.

At the same time we can do things to sort of catch up to those cars whether it be putting navigation, nice comfortable seats, better quality interiors, nicer wheels, intakes, exhausts and other performance goodies, we might be faster then them, we might outhandle them, we might even have higher quality in out interiors but guess what when someone who doesnt know jack about our cars they will still just say oh look at that hooked up neon, or that hooked up lancer.

In the end us modifying our cars is very very very pointless in the end its still a lancer or a neon. And sorry Bradley an SRT-4 is not american muscle, and an EVO is not a high performance sports car, they do resemble high performance, but for performance u have to pay. Thats why both u and me got exhausts to push a lil more out of our engines and such.

Anyways im done in closing you get what u pay for and if it is strictly speed go for a neon or a lancer if you want the other finer things in life then you know you going to pay for them, in the end they are both cars and they are good for what they are :cyberguy: type too much

Dammit i had a good response this site hates lots of typing and being previewed.

I never got butthurt b/c you said the srt is cheap dont worry man im not touchy like that.

And to say that the vette is unrefined is more your opinion than fact. I couldnt find numbers at work b/c i was blocked from translating a few sites from german but... i did find the good ole 2003 viper to help me prove my point that b/c its european doesnt mean it owns.

The comparison:
Viper srt-10 03' vs. Ferrari 360 Modena 99'

Lap times around nurnburg= 8:13 vs. 8:09 respectively
4 seconds off? From a ferrari? Unrefined? No. Not on the same level true. But they are closing fast.

There is a whole bunch of good comparisons that show their performance.
Linky

The only reason i used the nurburg as a reference is b/c its pretty much what every car is measured by. Im not gonna compare the beemers b/c thats not fair they are tuned specifically for that track. The m3 csl would **** on a vette at teh nurnburg but would inturn be **** on in a straight line. Once again the two countries have different demands.

This is my favorite comparison.
Viper is on the left and modena on the right..... see that difference once you get up in mph/kph??? Thats that unrefined tourqe you were bashing. :finga:


Acceleration
0 - 40 Km/h 1,7 s 1,7 s
0 - 60 Km/h 2,5 s 2,5 s
0 - 80 Km/h 3,4 s 3,6 s
0 - 100 Km/h 4,5 s 4,7 s
0 - 120 Km/h 5,8 s 6,4 s
0 - 140 Km/h 7,8 s 8,2 s
0 - 160 Km/h 9,4 s 10,5 s
0 - 180 Km/h 11,4 s 13,1 s
0 - 200 Km/h 14 s 16,1 s
Top Speed 306 Km/h 295 Km/h
:thumbup:
Lets keep this discussion going id like to see some numbers of a vette on the nurnburg.

Brian.

Good info...I'd like to see some corvette numbers on neurburgring myself. But you're missing the definition of 'refined.' Yes, they put down similar accel/top speed numbers.

But look at the power output vs. displacement and then look at those times again. The Ferrarri is faster with a two cylinder, 100PS, and 5000! cc disadvantage, and only it's only 100kg lighter than the Viper. That's the refinement I speak of. Any joe-schmoe can throw a huge displacement v-10 or v-12 in a chassis and make ridiculous power and have half decent lap times. But to do it with a V8, less than half the displacement, and still come out on top....that's classy.

mine sounds like a diesel truck though, and when did 4 cylinders become american muscle?? american muscle is mostly motor possibly a supercharger

True, to refine is to become pure or perfected. The europeans like i said have refined their vehicles, and the american muscle is in the process of being refined. I was just impressed a viper was only 4 seconds behind the modena. Granted he probably made up all the time on the long straights. :rotfl: There are many different paths to the one common goal which is the "perfect sports car" I like the thought of a viper accelerating so quickly that it almost hurts.


And im not really serious when i say my TURBO'd neon is a muscle car im kinda saying that in jest.

I dont disagree that the europeans have refined their vehicles more, not at all. :thumbup: Americans have just found a cheaper way to achieve comprarable performance numbers.

I disagree with that. American cars (all cars for that matter) are evolving, but I don't see American muscle cars becoming more refined.

That's just not their market. You're talking about two totally different approaches.

One is to build luxurious sports cars, with all the bells and whistles, make them in limited numbers, and sell them at a premium price to a limited audience.

The other is to build something with as much bang for the buck as you can cram into it, while keeping the cost low enough for the average consumer to be able to afford one, then build an assload of them.

And that is why i love american muscle.

That's what this site is all about. To each their own.

I have two issues with American muscle. One is that it has an extremely low uniqueness factor, becuase it's been done to death, over and over for years and years.

The other issue I have is that it seems as though a large number of the owners are closed minded dickheads that think their vehicle is gods gift to motorsports and that nothing else compares, and have a severe attitude towards any kind of import, but most especially Japanese imports. On the opposite side of that coin, of the people I know who drive imports, most of them at least respect American cars and what they are capable of, even though that may not be their particular taste or preference.

Both of those are enough to keep me away from American cars for the forseeable future, but I do have respect for nice American muscle cars, and am still impressed by some of them.

^^ Thats true, I spanked this guys 2003 mustang GT in my S2000 and he started flippin me off at the next stop light, wtf??


Bugatti Veyron 1001 hp stock with a stop speed of OVER 260! Thats right the top speed has not been reached!!
The top speed has not been reached because they cars front end started to lift up after 250+

I was just reading about that!!!
W-16 - 16 cyl. engine with 4 turbos pushing at least 981hp all four wheels

weighing in over 4200 lbs
Claimed performance:
0-62- 2.5 sec.
0-124- 7.3
You have to put an extra key in the car in order to reach "HIGH SPEED" mode.

Gordon Murray designed it along with the bt43 i think thats the number which is the fan car that f1 banned after one race.
He also designed the infamous mclaren f1 which has now been de-throned as the fastest production car.

Price tag- $1.2 million