Our Constitution allows federal government regulation but is very strict on just what the federal government is allowed to regulate. The problem is that our federal government has twisted and reinterpreted words in the constitution to basically give them the authority to regulate and ban anything they please.

The 10th amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

If our elected leaders would simply abide by the law, as they swore a solemn oath to do, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

BTW, how does someone enjoying a recreational drug harm you or anyone else? Why do you feel the need to dictate how others live their lives?

this thread is making me depressed that my body isn't super ripped.

BRB gassin' up lolz

I'm not here to argue that there are grey areas in the law. They are very complex and I'm no lawyer or anything like that. So it is OK for the govt to regulate some things but when you don't agree all of a sudden it is down with the govt regulation? Your being a hypocrite.

No, that's not what I said at all.

The government is allowed to regulate exactly what the law says it can regulate. No more, no less. I ask for nothing other than equal application of the law.

I'll quote it again:
If the federal government wants more regulatory power, there is an avenue to do so. They can add the power as an amendment to the constitution after 2/3 of the states have agreed to it, just as the law states.

my blanket statement wasn't aimed at athletes, i understand that many athletes use them for many different reasons. my post was only aimed at people who use them for non-medical use outside of sports...aka people who use them because they want the extra muscle mass without hard work.

I dunno man. To me, it just seems like your more worried about the govt trampling your rights then the actual pros/cons of the drug itself.

If the passed the amendment making it illegal would we be having this conversation?

but that's where your ignorance of the topic shows... it takes hard work for people to gain muscle, steroids or not.

You can't just inject some steroids and sit down on the couch with a bag of cheetos and expect to gain any muscle.

renn obviously is a very bright guy :eek:

ok renn-
i'm been working out for 11 YEARS without stopping. most i stop is a week at a time (and I could count the number of week breaks on ONE hand)
I've reach plateau's in everything I do at the gym - the only thing that is happening is my lower back and both shoulders are falling apart. My lifts won't go up- i've tried various programs, bulking cycles and other things to try to bump them up.

Do you know how many times I think about juicing to help with it all? I've heard success stories of people with herniated or bulging discs who can't walk for a long time, immediately start getting PR deadlifts and squats. my friend who was benching 315, then got injured and couldn't bench 135 without crying like a little b*tch, get back to 275-295 on the bench after a cycle and happy as can be about the pain free lifts.

AM I a tool cuz I want to feel good again? Maybe you're right since all I want to do it make up for my small pecker and bang chicks (especially since I'm married) lulz

Your not a tool to want to feel good again if it is medically necessary. Your a tool if your body can't physically get bigger or stronger and you are going to risk your heath to do it.

That is EXACTLY right. Our federal government's duty is not to be a baby sitter to a stupid and irresponsible populace. This country was founded on personal freedom, which also requires personal responsibility. If you can't control yourself enough to use drugs responsibly, it's not the duty of our government to "save us from ourselves" by banning any and every potentially harmful substance. If you feel you need the government to help make personal decisions for you, well then I just don't really know what to say.

Possibly, because a constitutional amendment was passed once prohibiting the sale and consumption of alcohol. We all know how that worked out to be not only an abysmal failure, but can also be credited with the rise of the mafia and organized crime. Of course it didn't take long for both the feds and the states to realize that banning a substance that people want only creates more problems and another amendment was added repealing the prohibition on alcohol.

So adding an amendment to the constitution that banned steroids could and most likely would still be debated if it passed. (I don't think a law like that will pass any time soon, with the disaster that was prohibition still fresh in our history.) Most people in politics understand you can't get people to stop doing something by outlawing it.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL, i am pretty familiar with how steroids work. i lift 2-3 times a week and know a few kids from my gym that juice. not an expert by any means but definitely not ignorant.

so now you say it's a medical issue? in your OP you said you wanted to do them to "put me in a whole other league."

read your OP ... doesn't make it seem like a medical issue to me.

i don't care either way if you use steroids, but using them to go past what your natural limits would be is stupid. that's all i'm gonna say.

Don't usually post but this was an interesting read. I have alot of knowledge when it comes to the Juice. Last year I trained for a body building competition. If i didn't get injured I would have had stage time.. Anyway....

The use of Roids is something that should not be taking lightly. Age, Training, Diet, ect all play a huge roll in the decision. Also there are some pretty harsh side effects and long term effects.. You can up the red blood cells so it thickens the blood, Liver issues, Kidney issues, and stress on the heart to name a few..

I have learned over the years and I have been training in the gym for over 10 years.. If you decide to cycle make sure you know what you are doing.. your Diet really should be in check. You will really need to increase your calories that you take in to feed the sudden growth of muscle.. Also Growing at a rapid pace can really tax the joints since ligaments don't grown, its alot easier to injure yourself..

I can go on and on on in here.. I think that the deicsion should be left to the individual but I think you should be really educated and know what you are about to put into your body.. Its not just during a cycle that you have to work about . Post Cycle Therapy is super important to regain natural test production and get your hormones back into check..

Steroids are not a wonder drug.. You don't take them and then you wake up looking awesome.. Its a process..Sure you can bulk up 20plus pounds during a cycle but keepin that muscle on is another story if you don't know what you are doing.

If anyone wants to chat hit me up via PM.. I don't condone the use of Steroids but Like i said I have a lot of knowledge and I am pretty well embedded in the fitness community.

..........and nascar

LOL

(10 char)

This is exactly what i'm talking about. Risking life and limb to exceed your bodies capabilities is both stupid and ignorant on the part of the user.

Stupid and ignorant, perhaps. But his decision and no one elses.

Its kinda like modifying your car. Is there a need for it? No. Does everyone here enjoy it? Yes. Do other people understand why you do it? No.

It really isn't the same.

Yes it is. They are both issues of personal choice that don't harm anyone but the user.

One could actually argue that modifying a car has the potential to be much MORE harmful to society as a whole than steroids. A steroid user's worst case scenario is his body falls apart and eventually kills him. A modified car enthusiast's worst case scenario is rigged and unsafe modifications that cause him to lose control of the vehicle and kill other motorists.

If keeping people "safe" is really your intended goal behind government intervention, you'd be a lot more effective at keeping people safe by campaigning for stricter traffic laws. Like requiring governors on all cars that limit their top speed to 45 mph and restricting car modifications to only non-power-adding mods done by certified professional installers. Lift kits make a vehicle more likely to roll over, so they should be outlawed as well.

and this is all because, according to you, people can't be trusted to make responsible, informed decisions on their own, so we must limit their choices to help keep them from hurting themselves.

+Like

Agreed! Legalize everything and let moral stigma's control it. If you want to destroy your life, feel free to do so. Please just use the gutters though when your feeling ill.

I would say a steroid user's worst case scenario is having roid rage and killing someone because of it. Its happened plenty of times in the past, probably as often than fatal accidents due to an unsafe modification. I feel an unsafe mod on a car rarely contributes to a fatal accident... 99 times out of 100 its driver error.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz4T2...eature=related

if you wanna watch the full documentary its in 4 or so parts on there.

This is absolutely disgusting...enjoy :mrgreen:

so you point out one of the laughing stocks of bodybuilding- someone who was using synthol to make his arms big.

I could point to an article about a kid who shot up kids at school with a gun or reported liver failure from alcoholism but that accomplishes nothing

I don't have much knowledge on this subject, but I have worked out in the past and did it all naturally. Either way I would never take steroids, but that's everyones personal choice on what they want to do.

Do you know only 5% of steroid users have "roid rage".

about 58 percent of all statistics are made up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs

best documentary you'll see on steroids

chris bell is the man.
actually his brother jackass is the man.

Keeping something away from someone because its potentially harmful isn't the Government saying "the peasants are to stupid" its saying "we care about our people and don't want them all F'ed up". Imagine you have a 16 year old kid who wants to get jacked. If he asked you for steroids would you get them for him? Would you bring them in the house and say the roids are in the cabinet? My guess is you wouldn't because your responsible and know even if they were taken responsibly, there's the risk of him unknowingly getting to the point of abuse. Even if your said son was 25-30 and asked the same question "dad can you get me steroids" it would be completely irresponsible of you if you got them for him.

Our Government keeping sh** like steroids, heroin, crack, etc. away from the public is them being responsible for its Country, NOT them controlling it (that's for the media to do).

Now if the Government wanted to ban Orange juice because Obama prefers milk we'd have a problem..

it just goes to show that there are a lot of bad effects of steroids. Not to mention that it's illegal and makes your nuts turn into raisins. plus why would you want to be that huge? It gets to a point where enough is enough. there are much safer alternatives to steroids. but (to the OP) in the end its your body so if you want to go ahead... you don't need all or any of our support.

of course there are bad effects - pointing out extremes in any circumstance doesn't prove anything. like i said- want me to post an article about someone drinking too much killing themself? You want me to find you someone into "body mods" who cuts their penis tip off? How many members here spend all their money and live paycheck to paycheck MODDING a car? isn't that a bad effect also? Don't justify spending $1000 on a jdm part while living at home and can't afford to move out is a good reason. I can't stress how many times i've seen people blow all their money on cars and then become unemployed and then live like crap.

enough is enough in any of these circumstances.

Re: views on steroids
 

I don't think steroids should be banned for personal use. Look at all of our "American" icons; Arnold, Sylvester, Hogan, these men have all used, but yet we flock to see their films and place them on higher pedestals than most. Not once have I ever heard someone call "The Terminator," a cheat or an idiot.

:rotfl::rofl:

You actually think that any government entity gives two sh**s about your quality of life? Oh man, you're way out in left field. You must bump into things all the time walking around with your eyes closed.

The Govt. keeps drugs away from people.... lol. wow.

You seriously need to get over thinking the gov. is out to get you. Sure, in no way is the US gov. full of angel's but when it comes to keeping harmful sh** off the streets its something they're doing right.

If one of your friends wanted to start taking steroids or any other substance that could possibly F him up would you try and stop them?

Answer A - "No I wouldn't try and stop him, its his choice" This makes you a shi**y friend.. No way around that!!

Answer B - "Of course I'd try to stop him, I'd do everything in my power to stop him from making that mistake" This of course doing what friends do..


If the Gov. does "answer B" you think they're evil and out to get ya?

If you can't respond to this with at least a hint of respect please don't, the sh** gets old..

I respond the way I do to your posts because reading what you type is like reading directly from an anti-American playbook. I do not mean anti-American as in 'I wear a shemagh and hide in the mountains with an RPG because some guy says Allah wants me to kill the infidels' kind of way, I mean Anti-American as in anti-every reason this country was formed in the first place. That bothers me (and many others) on a level that you obviously can't comprehend.

You obviously generally believe that the govt. is a wholly 'good' entity that looks out for the people it serves. That is a Utopian kind of situation. Of course that's the way it's supposed to be, but this is the year 2010 here in reality. You admit that the govt. is not 'full of angels', but yet you clearly believe that the Govt. as a whole still goes about business in an honorable way.

The fact of the matter is that the American people have, under no fair circumstances, been coerced into giving the Govt. the power to regulate things that they have absolutely no business regulating. The People have been fooled, tricked, and flat out lied to. The Govt. has purposely and successfully convinced us that we cannot regulate ourselves and that we need them to tell us what is legal and what is not because we don't have the cognitive capacity to decide for ourselves what is in our best interest. While this is true in a lot of cases now, because people have already been numbed to the point where some are truly not capable of rational though let alone possess any actual decision making skills, that's not how it's supposed to be.

Through a deliberate numbing-down process, the Govt. has taken control of our lives and the sickening thing about it all is that we let it happen. Rather than educating our young, who will in turn educate theirs and so on, we'd rather just float through life without being accountable for anything ourselves and hand over near complete control to the govt. and trust them to make the best decisions for us. That way, we don't have to even think about what is right or wrong, just about what's legal or illegal. What dictates 'proper' behavior is the fear of getting caught doing something illegal instead of morals and rational thought. That's ass-backwards.

Allowing the legal use of steroids or any other illegal substance has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're safe to use or not. It's about the fact that as a society, we need to realize that it's our responsibility to become educated about everything that directly impacts our lives and not just sit back in comfortable ignorance and allow someone else to decide for us.

At the most basic level of independence is personal choice. The guys who met in Philly and wrote a bunch of sh** on some parchment paper 234 ago years held that to be their most sacred of rights as people. It's the entire reason the revolutionary war happened, it's the entire reason we exist as a 'free' nation today, because they grouped together and said "enough is enough, I'm capable of independent thought, I can decide for myself what I want to do".


As to your specific argument about friends and choices... the Govt. is not your friend. Once you understand that, things should fall into place.

There is no 'answer A' or 'answer B' in the question you asked because it's not a simple answer. If a close friend of mine decided to put himself on a steroid cycle or start using a substance, whether it was considered 'abusing' the substance or not, I'd step in where appropriate. I would, as a friend, have a responsibility to inform him of the dangers of the substance in case he wasn't aware. If he then made the decision to go ahead and continue using the substance, I'd step in with an appropriate response, which would vary based on the particular circumstances. If it was a genuinely bad situation, I'd do everything in my power to stop the person from ruining their life. What I wouldn't do though, is make the decision for them. There's a reason that rehab is open door (unless it's court mandated :roll:). The person has to make the decision for himself to stop abusing the substance or to continue. Once the person has been informed of the dangers, there's nothing more you can do without infringing on that person's rights as a human and as a Citizen of the US. You can go as far as taking the needle out of someone's arm in desperation, but no matter what you do you absolutely cannot run that person's life for them. In the end it's up to the person to do as he/she wishes with their own life.


One last thing...

In response to your 'govt. is evil and out to get ya' comment, please PLEASE do some research on your own and become educated about what's really going on in this country. I would post specific links, but I'm intelligent enough to realize that you'll ignore everything that I write and dismiss it a 'conspiracy theory' because the TV tells you to. The reality is that what you see on FOX, MSNBC, CNN, etc. is filtered and people are falling deeper and deeper into a trance every day because of it.

Personaly I dont know why any forum of drug's should be illeagal (now in saying this this doiesnt mean i'v tried any of this. I'v been drug free my whole life and plan to stay that way) reason i say this is for one weed and shrooms are a naturlety grown plant. it dosent take any kind of chemical or man made substance to grow it and it was here before humans and will be here after humans. Other forms of drugs Coke heroine meth etc. If a person is that stupid enough to use them and go and throw there life away by all means let them. I'm willing to bet every prision in the united states inmate population is made up of 50% drug user's/abusers. There decision does not directley affect the rest of us unless they get behind the wheel (which they already do already). I know the big name drugs are never going to become legal but weed at least should be legal and taxed. I'm willing to bet that out of that 50% inmate population that is in there for drug abouse 90% of them are in there for the substance abuse of marijuana and truth be told.. you get more messed up from drinkign than you do getting high off pot (so I'v read) prohabition dident work for alchol and it clearley isant working for at least marajuana.

I can barely read this. You sure your drug free? Sounds like roid rage at Napa :-)

oh wow that was the most disgusting video ive seen in a long time.