Originally Posted by DC2.2GSR (Post 1896379)

$450 is a good number. Like I said before, you can get pretty much any 'regular' gun - a carry-able gun, not a show piece - for around that price. Only one thing I'd stress again though, go shoot some before you put a cap on what you want to spend and before you completely eliminate a gun from your list of possibles. Also remember that it's not just the cost of the gun that you have to worry about. You need to buy a quality gun and also save for a quality holster (the first time - don't be an idiot like me and buy 5 for the same gun because they all suck). You also need money for range ammo, both when renting guns and when shooting other peoples' guns (only if you want to shoot a lot lol). You also should put aside some cash for things like cleaning supplies and even carry ammo. You can expect a solid $25-30 for 20 rounds of anything worth carrying. You don't need to buy the best of everything, but believe me, it all adds up quickly. That's why I waited so long to buy a gun even after I was really into the idea of carrying.

You say you're at school now and you'll be home in two weeks. Why don't we finalize some plans to meet at Classic Pistol on that Sunday and you'll get to shoot pretty much every gun in your price range. Wait until then to start making offers on guns and to start really thinking about what features you're looking for in a gun.

For example, right now you may like the idea of a loaded chamber indicator that's found on newer Sigs, XDs, M&Ps, Glocks, etc. What I can tell you for certain is that once you become comfortable with your gun you'll never use it for any kind of serious double check of a loaded chamber... ever. It's only there as a 'feel good' feature, probably adopted for use because of some weak minded individual(s) crying at the gun manufacturers about "safety" or whatever. Once you get some training and some time spent at the range and carrying you'll learn that some form of a press-check is the only reliable and safe way to make sure it's loaded, and that the only time a gun is unloaded is when it's field stripped and laying in pieces on your table and there isn't a single round in sight.

Another note about internal safeties, etc... anything comparable to an XD is going to have a comparable internal safety. Gloks, XDs, M&Ps, etc, they all have internal 'drop' safeties. The difference with XDs though is that they have the grip safety, which personally I find to be a bit annoying and distracting. Glocks have the trigger safety that protrudes through the center of the trigger. Again, I find it uncomfortable and distracting. M&Ps have the hinged trigger which I feel is the most 'normal' feeling of them all, but other people feel that it makes for a weak feeling or mushy trigger. Gotta try them all first though to be sure which one you want.

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1896334)

At this point with more research ive been doing and listening your advice the sigma is def not a first or second pick at this point ha...

Ive been looking and im looking to stay sub 450 on the price at this point, decided to take the extra 2 weeks or so it will take me to put aside a little more dough to make a decent first purchase instead of buying a gun just to have a gun if you know what i mean

Originally Posted by blkZ06 (Post 1896414)

...get the sand out of your vagina and buy a god damn machine gun

Originally Posted by blkZ06 (Post 1896414)

You have my permission to not buy a .50BMG yet

Stop dropping money into semi auto ****, get the sand out of your vagina and buy a god damn machine gun

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1896434)

Good advice, although I am pretty sure my glocks dont have a loaded chamber indicator



I'll make you a deal, Shoot my glock 19 (or any glock 19) and if you love it its yours for $450 with the trijicon sites, factory sites in trijicon package, a desantis pro stealth IWB holster, the factory glock box lock & papers, two 15 rd mags with a glock speed loader, 127rds of ball ammo (100rds of Lawman 124gr and 27 rds of federal 115gr) and 15rds of Hornady Critical defense (enough carry ammo to get ya started) as well as a cleaning kit... When I got started I didnt have anyone guiding me and I spent a ton of money on guns that ended up sucking big time (again if you buy her and wanna sell, i NEED her back)

I will give her a really thorough cleaning before hand as well.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/r...starterkit.jpg

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1896439)

Sounds like a deal dave :) if you are willing to bare with me for a week or two after the classic pistol event to get all the funds together :inlove:

Originally Posted by SvicksTc (Post 1896429)

I am not sure if the XDM 4.5'' series would be to big of a gun for daily carry compared to the sub xd 4''? the xdm has 19+1 capacity and im not sure if i really need that? compared to the as im sure you know 16+1 capacity of the xd, however, ive read it has greater accuracy, etc.

i will be wanting to carry with iwb

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1896434)

Good advice, although I am pretty sure my glocks dont have a loaded chamber indicator



I'll make you a deal, Shoot my glock 19 (or any glock 19) and if you love it its yours for $450 with the trijicon sites, factory sites in trijicon package, a desantis pro stealth IWB holster, the factory glock box lock & papers, two 15 rd mags with a glock speed loader, 127rds of ball ammo (100rds of Lawman 124gr and 27 rds of federal 115gr) and 15rds of Hornady Critical defense (enough carry ammo to get ya started) as well as a cleaning kit... When I got started I didnt have anyone guiding me and I spent a ton of money on guns that ended up sucking big time (again if you buy her and wanna sell, i NEED her back)

I will give her a really thorough cleaning before hand as well.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/r...starterkit.jpg

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1895616)

lemme know when, Im free from 6-whenever thursday 6-8 friday all day sat. and before 4 on sunday

Originally Posted by ~Brian~ (Post 1896455)

If he doesn't buy this, I will.

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1896480)

haha you have a gun!

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1896434)

Good advice, although I am pretty sure my glocks dont have a loaded chamber indicator



I'll make you a deal, Shoot my glock 19 (or any glock 19) and if you love it its yours for $450 with the trijicon sites, factory sites in trijicon package, a desantis pro stealth IWB holster, the factory glock box lock & papers, two 15 rd mags with a glock speed loader, 127rds of ball ammo (100rds of Lawman 124gr and 27 rds of federal 115gr) and 15rds of Hornady Critical defense (enough carry ammo to get ya started) as well as a cleaning kit... When I got started I didnt have anyone guiding me and I spent a ton of money on guns that ended up sucking big time (again if you buy her and wanna sell, i NEED her back)

I will give her a really thorough cleaning before hand as well.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/r...starterkit.jpg

Originally Posted by RedWabbit (Post 1896490)

I was pretty sure they all had a loaded chamber indicator, at least mine does.

thats a great deal I was looking to sell mine for that with stock sights 3lb trigger connector and all but the ammo. with the ammo and sights thats damn well worth it. but I don't like 9mm, .40 ftw.

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1896691)

maybe it does have the loaded indicator and i just never noticed it haha, as far as 40 it sucks there a reason its called a 40S&W (short and weak) its a cut down 10mm with less stopping power than a 45 and travels basically the same speed as a 9mm with less capacity (unless your willing to carry a massive full size which still holds less rounds than most 9mm compacts.)

It basically falls into a total fail category, people that cant handle a 45 but are mistaken in thinking a 9mm is too weak. To me it seems like an afterthought round (actually thats exactly how it came to be, the FBI didnt like the recoil of a 10mm but thought the 9 didnt have the stopping power they wanted, which is not the case with most quality modern 9mm rounds)...

For example (from ammo and ballistics 4 by Forker) Federal hydra-shok 165 grain JHP leaves the muzzle at 980fps from a 40 with a 4" barrel (1 in 16 twist), the same federal round round in 124 grain (a much lighter projectile) leaves a 4" 9mm barrel with a 1 in 10 twist @ 1120fps.

A guns energy is measured in ft-lbs, the 40 S&W has 350 ft-lbs @ the muzzle the 9mm has 345 ft-lbs @ the muzzle, while the 9mm falls off slightly before the 40s&w that doesnt happen until after 15-20 yards, way farther than most people will be using either round (lets be honest, a threat @ 15-20 yards isnt actually a threat yet)

Similar results can basically be seen across the board when comparing the two calibers with the same brand ammunition.

I would absolutely be willing to give up 5 ft-lbs of energy for a faster moving projectile and a higher capacity out of a more concealable firearm.

/ end schooling. :mrgreen: <3 you

Originally Posted by cmr076 (Post 1896691)

maybe it does have the loaded indicator and i just never noticed it haha, as far as 40 it sucks there a reason its called a 40S&W (short and weak) its a cut down 10mm with less stopping power than a 45 and travels basically the same speed as a 9mm with less capacity (unless your willing to carry a massive full size which still holds less rounds than most 9mm compacts.)

It basically falls into a total fail category, people that cant handle a 45 but are mistaken in thinking a 9mm is too weak. To me it seems like an afterthought round (actually thats exactly how it came to be, the FBI didnt like the recoil of a 10mm but thought the 9 didnt have the stopping power they wanted, which is not the case with most quality modern 9mm rounds)...

For example (from ammo and ballistics 4 by Forker) Federal hydra-shok 165 grain JHP leaves the muzzle at 980fps from a 40 with a 4" barrel (1 in 16 twist), the same federal round round in 124 grain (a much lighter projectile) leaves a 4" 9mm barrel with a 1 in 10 twist @ 1120fps.

A guns energy is measured in ft-lbs, the 40 S&W has 350 ft-lbs @ the muzzle the 9mm has 345 ft-lbs @ the muzzle, while the 9mm falls off slightly before the 40s&w that doesnt happen until after 15-20 yards, way farther than most people will be using either round (lets be honest, a threat @ 15-20 yards isnt actually a threat yet)

Similar results can basically be seen across the board when comparing the two calibers with the same brand ammunition.

I would absolutely be willing to give up 5 ft-lbs of energy for a faster moving projectile and a higher capacity out of a more concealable firearm.

/ end schooling. :mrgreen: <3 you

Originally Posted by rodder (Post 1896993)

I support this post ^

My personal feeling on caliber choice for a carry or home defense piece, is to carry the largest caliber you can carry comfortably and shoot accurately. If you're a limp-wristed nancy-boy you might only be able to get away with a .22, but that's a better option than an empty mag in a .45 without a single hit.

IMO, a .40 is "snappier" than a .45. Anyone who can comfortably and accurately handle a .40 will have no problem with a .45ACP.

Originally Posted by ~Brian~ (Post 1897417)

All of this may be true, but if push comes to shove, my .40 will drop somebody just as fast as your .9mm or .45 will, especially with the rounds I carry.

Originally Posted by rodder (Post 1897483)

Don't kid yourself. A good hit with a .45 will ALWAYS do more damage than a .40 and a .40 will ALWAYS do more damage than a 9mm. It's simple physics.

There are lists showing how various calibers do against attackers in real life shootings in regard to how many hits were required to disable the perp.

.357 mag won by a landslide, with .45 ACP, .40 S&W and 9mm all clustered together one after the other.

You're not taking into account the fact that, while you may be carrying highly effective defensive .40 cal hollow points, you can get the same cartridge with all the same properties and benefits in .45 ACP too.

Remember, while a 9mm or .40 may expand, a .45 will never shrink. ;)

But keep telling yourself .40 is just as effective as larger calibers if it makes you feel better. :-p

Originally Posted by ~Brian~ (Post 1897515)

Great... now I have to go out and buy a Kimber. Thank dick. :-p

Originally Posted by Munky (Post 1897547)

Did someone say Kimber?!?!?! :roll:


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/...fdeed809_z.jpg