Hail Sale?

[james_ls]

What dealerships are offering Hail-Sale items as I've heard on the radio and stuff??

I'm in the market for a new car...and was seeing what I could hook up with.

Lemme know what you've heard!!

[italianblaze]

Ive herd reedmans

[bluengoldsti]

I heard Reedmans is having one also. I would get an estimate on the damage first. I just got my car repaired from the hail damage and it cost $2300. Well, it cost my insurance company $2300. There were 78 dents on the hood, roof, and trunk. I don't know if the insurance company would pay for the repair on a newly bought car tho.

[grimm]

but if you can live with the dimples...or can do your own body work... go for it.

[goodfella732]

I heard Reedmans is having one also. I would get an estimate on the damage first. I just got my car repaired from the hail damage and it cost $2300. Well, it cost my insurance company $2300. There were 78 dents on the hood, roof, and trunk. I don't know if the insurance company would pay for the repair on a newly bought car tho.

Im sure if you buy the car damaged then your insurance wont pick up the bill. I know my insurance company had me get my car inspected when I got my policy to check for any damage on the car prior to my policy starting.

[bluengoldsti]

Im sure if you buy the car damaged then your insurance wont pick up the bill. I know my insurance company had me get my car inspected when I got my policy to check for any damage on the car prior to my policy starting.

That's what I was thinking. But like Grimm said, if you can live with it or repair it yourself, you'll probably save a lot of money.

[Jim Lewis]

Scam, plain and simple - I was in the car business for 12 years. Here's how it works -

Let's take your $2300 estimate/repair bill as an example.

Hail damage is present on a car you're looking at, and the dealership has a $2300 estimate to repair it. You don't know the amount of the estimate, and most consumers would estimate VERY low, not being versed in auto body knowledge.

The dealer offers you a $2,000 discount on the car, and you think - that's great! You may not realize that you could get a discount like that anyway, at any dealer, on an undamaged car...and of course, you should never let them set the price anyway - do your research, find the market value on the car through Edmunds or another source, and YOU control the negotiation..and by the way, stay AWAY from payment. If you need more info on that, PM me, I don't want to thread jack.

Back to the hail car you're looking at - what you're not taking into account is that the dealer's insurance company has given an estimate and CUT A CHECK to the dealer for the damage on that unit. They "discount" the car at roughly the same amount as the damage, looks like heroes, and NEVER discount the car....catch that? They never came off of MSRP.

So, you paid less than MSRP, in theory, but you really didn't - you now have a damaged car that your insurance won't repair; the dealer made ALL the money on the car, when in fact, you were entitled to THEIR insurance check on the car...bad deal all around.

[TROLL]

...unless they give you a bigger discount and it is in fact worth it. but definitely something to keep in mind depending on where the pricing falls.

[Intercooled T]

good tip Jim

[Jim Lewis]

"...unless they give you a bigger discount and it is in fact worth it. but definitely something to keep in mind depending on where the pricing falls."

Still...

If there's a $2300 discount for the damage, and an additional $2000 discount, let's say, for a total of $4300, you STILL have a car with $2300 in damage on it.

Why not get a $2000 discount on an undamaged car, and have a car without $2300 in damage? There is NO up side for the consumer in this at all - that's why dealers LOVE hail sales.

[grimm]

I agree that the dealer is always going to come out on top.. But they are going to come out on top whether you buy it damaged or not. thats their business to make money selling cars... But just because the dealer is making money doesn't mean you can't find a good deal? or save yourself a little cash. But like i said, only if you are willing to live with it, or fix it yourself...

[TROLL]

ok its their decision to not sell a car below a certain price (and make X profit on it) just like its your decision to not buy a car above a certain price. they only come out on top if you let them... a transaction involves 2 willing parties, and if you're not willing, there's no transaction.
i wasnt going to get into numbers, but thats really what it comes down to. i just said that depending on the discount who knows... if there's $2500 in damage and you're getting a $7500 discount, then maybe its worth it. wont know till you try...

[Jim Lewis]

They're not going to drop $5k on a unit unless there's $5k in markup to drop - average markup from invoice to MSRP is 10-13%, depending on the manufacturer, and the cheaper you go (in the car), the less markup. For instance, most $12-15k imports have less than $1000 between invoice and MSRP.

Subarus are typically only 8-9%. You're not getting a $5000 discount on something with only $2000 worth of markup to begin with and no rebates.

[TROLL]

except the fact that they just got cut a nice sized check for each damaged car so who says they wouldnt go below invoice? they sell perfect cars at invoice, so why not a damaged one that they already got paid insurance money on? this is all futile though, we're going back and forth on numbers that we have no clue about so there's really no point.
i was just saying it doesn't hurt to go take a look and see if its worth it or not.

[Jim Lewis]

I agree, make your offer and hope for the best.

To use your idea, though, you're talking about wanting a car below invoice after the dealer has been cut a check - that's just asking for what you should get anyway, and doesn't require anything special. Why not get the car at invoice without damage, instead of simply offsetting the damage with a discount? You're getting a damaged car that would take the amount that was discounted to make it right...

That's the same as having them knock off $500 on a used car because it needs tires...then you have to pay $500 for tires.

Only in this scenario, you either pay to have the hail damage repaired, or live with the damage. Who wants to have a hail damaged $20-30k car? Not me. If I'm dropping a buttload of money every month for a car, it should be perfect when I buy it.

Hail sales don't help anyone but the dealer. And before we debate this further, take a look at where I'm getting my info, please. I'm trying to help members of the forum by passing on experience from buying and selling (as a fleet manager/sales manager) over 28,000 vehicles, and being an expert witness in over 8,100 automotive legal cases.

I'm not just here to throw info out to cause an argument.

www.automotiveexpertwitness.com

[K-Rex]

Don't forget, Reedman's has (or did when I worked there) its own gigantic body shop. I know it will still cost them some money to fix cars, but not much. They are not going to give you a big deal, because they can just fix it.

[grimm]

but taking $500 off because it needs new tires and you already have a set means you save $500... so again it is a good deal if you can fix it yourself, and or don't mind the damage. I mean if you already own a paintless dent remover, or can rent one for $100 then hell, why not try and save as much money as you can on a new vehicle. THis is a forum of enthusiasts and tuners, so most likely people on here can out source any work they might need for less then a shop. Again, it's obivous a dealer is not ever going to "loose" money on a sale of a car, but that doesn;t mean the consumer is getting ripped off, there are way too many personal preferences and scenarios out there fro anyone to boldly say it's not a good deal.

alot of people want to have a 2nd car as a DD. why not get a brand new car with some minor dents that you can get worked out over time, instead of buying a used car? again... if the price is right... just trying to point out there are other sides to this.... obviously Hail sales happen and make money for a reason.

[Jim Lewis]

On the $500 discount for tires, the point is that you still have to supply the tires, whether you buy them, have them laying in your shed, or your dad owns a tire store. Either way, you're not getting something for nothing, it's just a trade off.

Same with hail damage. You either fix it or live with it, but there's no way you're getting a perfect car for a better price - it's a trade off, and the dealer always makes out on these things, even more than a regular transaction.

[TROLL]

yeah, you surely have more personal experience with this type of thing than i do, just providing a counter point.

[Jim Lewis]

And I agree with you completely. Always walk in and have a number in mind and make an offer, and see if it works.

The only thing is that most sales closers and managers are trained and programmed to get you off the concept of initial price and discounts and onto monthly payment, then work you from there. Once you're on payment and concentrating over negotiating $20 here and there...you're done.

That's why I always advise people to do research ahead of time, avoid potential traps like these hail sales or "inventory reduction sales", and just understand what you can afford, payment wise, and where that leaves you with a total purchase price based on what you can afford.

On sales other than hail sales, like the aforementioned "inventory reduction sales" or "factory-authorized clearance"...PLEASE listen to the wording in these ridiculous ads.

I heard one recently where Ford had given "special authorization" for a complete inventory reduction.....ok, since WHEN does a dealer need special permission to sell cars?? That's what they do, and the manufacturer actually punishes and inflicts penalties on them if they DON'T sell allotted numbers of units. It's just funny how automobile advertising works, and how silly most of it is...

[blu4door]

Only in this scenario, you either pay to have the hail damage repaired, or live with the damage. Who wants to have a hail damaged $20-30k car?



I would buy a hail damaged car and drive it as-is if I could get a good enough deal on it. Resale value means nothing to me.

[Jim Lewis]

OK, you're unusual. I wouldn't want to drive a car with a bunch of dents in it, so I'd want to fix it, either myself, or at MAACO or something. Resale may not mean much when you're buying the car, but just as the term implies, it means a lot when you're trading or selling.

If you took a discount, bought a hail damaged car, drove it three years, and traded it...you'll get hit AGAIN for the damage because it's still there. There's no such thing as a free lunch, or a free puppy.

[MPowerKai]

I'd rather just buy a salvaged car from an auction. My friend picked up an Rx8 with 50 miles on it for 12k, because it got scratched on the dealer lot. Dealership reported it to the insurance company and the insurance company salvaged the car and paid for the whole thing. Car went to auction.

[Jim Lewis]

Interesting idea, if you can get into something like that, but again, you have to face the ownership consequences of a car with a branded title, plus there's not a bank or automotive lender in the world that will loan money on a salvaged-title car.

If you have the cash, then go for it - most people don't though.

[Nors]

Next time I buy a car I am bringing Jim Lewis with me :lol:

[grimm]

OK, you're unusual. I wouldn't want to drive a car with a bunch of dents in it, so I'd want to fix it, either myself, or at MAACO or something. Resale may not mean much when you're buying the car, but just as the term implies, it means a lot when you're trading or selling.

If you took a discount, bought a hail damaged car, drove it three years, and traded it...you'll get hit AGAIN for the damage because it's still there. There's no such thing as a free lunch, or a free puppy.

see this is my point... you are speaking about what you "personally" think is considered a good deal to "you". A lot of people have different views and needs and wants... so to say a 'hail sale' is bad an no one will benefit is BS. Some people don't have the same concerns or cares, some people drive their cars into the ground, some have the tools and the know how to fix whatever is wrong with it. I understand to "you" that doesn't seem like a deal, but to someone else, they might see it differently...

Long and short of it is this. If you aren't ignorant, then you won't be suckered in by a sales pitch. plain and simple.. But you can not accurately say it isn't a good deal to everyone, unless you know the exact details of the entire transaction, and the personal preferences of the individual consumer...

Oh and there are such things as free lunches... I get them all the time, and free breakfast on fridays, Just because someone else didn't get it for free doesn't mean it's not free to you.

[blu4door]

OK, you're unusual. I wouldn't want to drive a car with a bunch of dents in it, so I'd want to fix it, either myself, or at MAACO or something. Resale may not mean much when you're buying the car, but just as the term implies, it means a lot when you're trading or selling.

If you took a discount, bought a hail damaged car, drove it three years, and traded it...you'll get hit AGAIN for the damage because it's still there. There's no such thing as a free lunch, or a free puppy.


I look at my DD as just that a DD. I don't care if it gets dented or scratched. Its sole purpous in life is just to get me from point A to point B.

The only thing I am worried about is keeping the engine in good mechanical condition. If I bought it as an everyday car, then I doubt I would ever trade it in. I put less than 7K miles a year on my main car, I have a very short commute. It would take me about 12 -13 years to get over 100K miles.

I am sitting here trying to remember the last time I washed my explorer......... Probably around november of last year. But it runs like a top, doesn't smoke, no knocking/tapping, and it has over 130K miles (I bought it used) The outside has a small dent on the fender and alot of stone chips on the front end/hood, but I could care less as long as it keeps running good. I got a great deal on it because of the stone chips/small dent, but in reality all I was looking for was a strong running engine.

[Jim Lewis]

I'm speaking from a retail car business perspective, standards in the industry, blah, blah, etc.

I realize that many people have different needs when it comes to a vehicle, but I was speaking towards the mainstream consumer, not someone who can repair small dents. The average consumer, and I'd say the majority of "enthusiasts", like many who frequent our forum, haven't the slightest clue how to fix a dent.

You guys are the exception to the rule, but generally speaking, sales like "hail sales" don't do any consumers any favors.

Free lunches, perhaps, but it seems there's always some catch somewhere.

Just like being given a "free" puppy. Sure, the puppy is free, but the bedding, food, chew toys, child gate, and of course, $500 in regular maintenance vet bills each year aren't free. See my point? It wasn't all at once, but in a year, you'll drop $1000 on that puppy.....the free puppy isn't free.

[grimm]

Interesting idea, if you can get into something like that, but again, you have to face the ownership consequences of a car with a branded title, plus there's not a bank or automotive lender in the world that will loan money on a salvaged-title car.

If you have the cash, then go for it - most people don't though.

you speak as if you know all... and not that I don't think you are knowledgable but, c'mon now, there are plenty of companies that would be very willing to laon you the money for a slavaged car... you will need to have good/great credit and the interest rate might be 20% but i'm sure there are places... lets just try keep it to facts...

[grimm]

Just like being given a "free" puppy. Sure, the puppy is free, but the bedding, food, chew toys, child gate, and of course, $500 in regular maintenance vet bills each year aren't free. See my point? It wasn't all at once, but in a year, you'll drop $1000 on that puppy.....the free puppy isn't free.

the puppy was free? the up keep isn't... see the difference...
Life is free, but living isn't...

[Jim Lewis]

you speak as if you know all... and not that I don't think you are knowledgable but, c'mon now, there are plenty of companies that would be very willing to laon you the money for a slavaged car... you will need to have good/great credit and the interest rate might be 20% but i'm sure there are places... lets just try keep it to facts...

11 years in sales management, 6 years of that in automotive F&I (finance and insurance), three major schools, and working with over 300 different lenders. I've never seen one that would loan money on a salvage title.

I've also been involved in over 8,000 cases in the tri-state area alone where I've been asked to give written opinions or testify about the automotive industry. So yes, I have more information than the average guy on this subject because I had to study up and know what I was talking about while under oath...if I didn't have direct experience to draw from.

I don't claim to have done everything, but if I haven't done everything in the car business, I've watched someone else do it. The old military saying goes "I may not have done it all, but if I didn't do it, I saw it done".

That all said, I'm sure that if you have perfect credit and have had a relationship with a bank for 20 years, you could borrow money against a business or just a revolving credit line. Either way, you're still not using a damaged/salvage title vehicle as collateral.

[grimm]

I never doubted your credencials, all i'm saying is let's not say NO ONE... Or EVERYONE.. cause we both know there is always an exception.

[Jim Lewis]

I stand by my statement...and I've made it before under oath, so I can't back down now...:)

"there's not a bank or automotive lender in the world that will loan money on a salvaged-title car"

Never you said you couldn't borrow money in some manner, like a revolving credit line, and then buy a car with the money - there's a difference. I'm saying you can't use a salvage title as collateral in any bank I've ever dealt with.

If it does exist, they're taking a huge chance, your credit would have to be bullets perfect, they'd want half down, etc....and you even qualify for stipulations like that, it's very like you can stroke a check for the $12k for the car instead of needing a loan, anyway.

Just like those ridiculous "no payments for 4 years" on things like furniture. The only people who are able to qualify for things like that certainly don't need deferred payments for 4 years on $3k worth of furniture...if you DO need it, you probably don't qualify. Advertising gimmick.

[james_ls]

Mr Lewis...would you like to help me or accompany me in finding something new.

I'm friggin overwhelmed after reading all these scam-related posts and stuff...and even more confused than I was when I started this.

[Jim Lewis]

I understand, it's easy to get that way. And yes, I can at least guide you or throw some suggestions your way. PM me and let me know what you're looking at, and what you need to accomplish in the big picture - I'll need to know that status of your trade, if you have one.

Most dealers truly fear an educated consumer. Many consumers THINK they're educated because they read something on Edmunds for 2 minutes and ran out the door....and right into a payment or lease trap.

The old saying of "knowing just enough to get yourself in trouble" applies here. This is a big purchase, so you need to put a little time into it, and not be swayed by ANYTHING you're told by a salesperson.

Most consumers want to think that their sales person (that they're talking to) is some career minded, well-trained guru on automobiles. That type of person comprises less than 1% of the car sales industry. In fact, the industry AVERAGE time in place for sales persons of all dealerships in the nation is less than 3 months.

Factor in the two or three old dogs who have been there at a particular store for 10 years, and you have 18 young men and women who are replaced each month by 18 more because they couldn't cut it. They know next to nothing about cars in general, and very little about the specific model you're looking at. Furthermore, they just left jobs making Slurpees at 7-11 or selling t-shirts in the mall...and thought they'd try car sales.

THAT is who the majority of the salespeople you talk to, whether they're 20 or 50, when you talk to someone at a car lot, and they have but one mission - get you into a car by telling you anything they think you want to hear. So, the "facts" and information they give you is suspect at the least, and usually borders on made up BS that's concocted as they go.

Seen that a lot...

[james_ls]

Awesome I appreciate it.

I'll get together an idea or two and shoot them your way.

[WhiteXFire]

*IN THE INTEREST OF THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE THREAD*

Peruzzi Mitsubishi, Nissan, and Pontiac/GMC are all having hail sales this week, or so says the radio.

[Broken5hift]

im not going to read all that **** so im just going to say reedmans, then im going to say, but **** them because they are still over priced and wont come down

[Jim Lewis]

*IN THE INTEREST OF THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE THREAD*

Peruzzi Mitsubishi, Nissan, and Pontiac/GMC are all having hail sales this week, or so says the radio.

Of course they are - funny how we didn't get any hail, or maybe it was 300 miles away, but they're still having hail sales, trying to get people to feel sorry for them and buy their cars.

[WhiteXFire]

Of course they are - funny how we didn't get any hail, or maybe it was 300 miles away, but they're still having hail sales, trying to get people to feel sorry for them and buy their cars.

All other reasoning aside, considering the fact that I got a ****load of hail from that storm a little while back and I live 2 miles from those dealers (including ReedmanToll), I think it's a safe assumption that they got it as well.

Doesn't mean I'm running out to buy a car, just passing the info along.

[Jim Lewis]

Sucks about the hail - been there, done that - we had softball sized hail in Abilene, TX (Dyess AFB) in 1988 that caved in car's roofs and such....

I'm just saying that I've seen dealers have hail sales when there hasn't been much more than a raindrop within 300 miles....