Review: 2010 Honda Civic Si HFP not fast, is curious

[Elliott18t]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/07/01civicsihppreview2010.jpg


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/29/2010-honda-civic-si-review-road-test/

There was a time was when any serious discussion of "hot hatches" – small, lightweight economy cars pumped full of go-fast parts and body modifications of dubious taste – always included the Honda Civic Si. Back in the day, the D16Z6-engined Si would routinely do battle against the Volkswagen GTI and Nissan Sentra SE-R for import tuner supremacy. Times, however, change.

These days, the battle for hot hatch supremacy starts and essentially ends with turbocharged beasties like the Mitsubishi Evolution and Subaru WRX/STI, with a dash of MazdaSpeed3 or Mini Cooper S thrown in for flavor. The Sentra SE-R is little more than a sad shell of its former self (a fact we find odd considering just how much cache Nissan has built up for the brand with its exotic-destroying Godzilla GT-R) and the Volkswagen GTI has evolved into an entry-level Audi – lots of interior and NVH refinement, but lacking the kicked-in-the-you-know-where power necessary to keep up with the all-wheel-drive Japanese kids. But what about the Civic Si? Where does it fit into the import tuner lexicon, especially when loaded up with lots of Honda Factory Performance (HFP) parts? Make the jump as we attempt to find out.

The four-door Civic is more conservatively shaped than the two-door version, a double-wedge profile that we still find intriguing late into its life-cycle. The sedan, however, is sort of the BMW 3 Series of the small C-segment: Smartly shaped and aerodynamically efficient, but now getting on a bit. Honda has tried to address some of this lacklusterness by tricking out this particular Si with lots of HFP add-ons. While these supposed aero-mods might actually enhance performance, the front splitter seems only there to scrape up against gas station driveways.

Meanwhile, the rear wing is a total show piece, as a factory Civic Si is hardly capable of speeds where this sort of downforce is warranted. Worst of all, fart-can exhausts should never, ever come from the factory and we think this is a particularly shameful way for Honda to make $40. It's not that we find the Si HFP ugly (we think the paint scheme is great), but it's sending out the wrong sort of message, the sort that Jesse's Jetta sent out in the original Fast and the Furious movie. Almost a desperate, "Me too, me too..."



Inside is the now familiar Star Trek dashboard affair that people love or hate. We're (naturally) split. On the plus side, we really like the simplified layout where the tachometer is front and center, just like it should be in a performance-oriented car – though it does make you wonder why it occupies that place of honor in the more pedestrian Civic models that make up the overwhelming majority of sales. Still, fans of VTEC will appreciate knowing exactly when cam-phasing is set to take place.

But on the demerit side, it's easy to overlook the speedometer and the fuel gauge, two readouts most folks probably use more often than a tachometer. In fact, so hidden was the bar-graph fuel meter that we nearly ran out, inadvertently running the tank down to one bar before we rolled into a gas station on fumes. Also, the speedo is digital only. We wish there were a duplicate analog gauge, because if you turn the headlights on during the daytime, the speedometer fades to near invisibility without monkeying around with the dimmer settings. Speaking of invisible, the frustrating-to-use, aftermarket-looking navigation system is exactly that. Though, if you're into the last decade's aesthetic, we suppose it's a neat time capsule piece.




The single best part of the Si's interior is its six-speed shifter. More specifically, its silken, precise action. The shift knob itself is a HFP part, wrapped in cow and a little small for our taste. Also, the leather (or is that leather-ette?) shroud wasn't attached in our tester, and as far as we can tell, it isn't supposed to be attached. The resulting free-floating piece of material therefore feels cheap and annoying. But Honda could've covered the shifter in cactus and we really wouldn't have cared – the movement is that good. Say whatever you want about Honda's recent U.S. efforts, the one thing that's simply undeniable is how consistently wonderful their manual transmissions feel. Mazda and Porsche come close, but at the end of the day, Hondas just swap gears better than anyone else. And the clutch action is just as good.

We also liked the leather-wrapped HFP steering wheel, and in terms of the HFP seats, we were split. The material was properly racy and the bolstering good – especially the upper back-bolsters – but the seats were a little too squishy (to one of us) for true pocket rocket duty.



After giving our blue four-door Si tester the once over, and especially after looking at the headline-font-sized "VTEC/DOHC" graphics on the rear doors, a very wise lady said, "My initial reaction to lettering on the side of a car is that it's stuffing its pants." A keen observation, perhaps, especially when you look at the Civic Si's engine through 2010-eyes. Rated at 197 horsepower and 139 pound-feet of torque, the mill is a torqueless wonder. Consider the Subaru WRX for a moment, and never mind about its 265 horsepower. Even with a plastic intake manifold, the Rexer managers to lay 244 pound-feet of torque down to all four wheels. This Civic's got barely half that going to just the fronts. The good news? You need torque to have torque-steer.

There is, however, plenty of plain old steer. Honda has done a commendable job of equipping its hottest Civic with a smart suspension, one that's able to take what little power there is and make the most of it. Additionally, the age old question of "Fast car slow or slow car fast," receives a pretty good answer from the Civic Si. Compared to its competition, at least, you can essentially drive the thing flat-out at almost all times. Not only will it take you longer to get into extra-legal speeds, but when you are cooking along, you're in total control of the kitchen.



But again, cooking alone takes some effort, as just getting up to 45 mph from a standstill takes all the cam-phasing the little VTEC can muster. That said, the little motor spinning off into the stratosphere sounds wonderful. We can't tell you how many times we were startled to finagle a perfect launch, roughly slam our way through the gears through fourth only to look down in amazement that we hadn't yet cracked 50 mph. Frankly, it's sort of an odd sensation.

But back to the handling, where we need to stress one particular point. In some ways the handling is very good, meaning that when you head straight out of the box and onto your favorite road, the Civic Si will delight you. Turn-in is sharp, the steering is fairly communicative and the damping is crisp with a near-perfect amount of rebound across uneven stuff. But there's a catch: Enthusiasts out there who will appreciate the sort of sharp reflexes offered up by the Si are likely to be the exact people that can't get over the power deficit. They'll demand more power. And while we're certain the aftermarket is brimming with solutions (hi Mugen!), a large power infusion would probably upset the Civic's balance. Evil, steering wheel-ripping torque steer would doubtlessly be an issue, and any more weight over the front wheels is not what the performance doctor ordered. The 2010 Civic Si is and will remain a slow car, which is probably not what its target customer wants.




At the end of the day, the base $22,255 Civic Si is a good driver's car. But it's severely down on power to its competition and all the HFP parts don't help the equation – especially at an as-tested price of $25,165. For that kind of money, you could take your pick from an entire fleet of more capable pocket rockets. The WRX starts at $24,995, and with options and destination will cost you more than the Honda, but it's so much more car. More to the point, perhaps, a Mini Cooper S starts at $23,000 and offers as much handling with more grunt (due to its lower weight, not power).

Essentially, Honda is going after the kind of customer that likes the idea of customized and tuned cars, but one who doesn't feel like doing any work. Or market research. We're guessing there's not too many of them, which is why you don't see a Civic Si all that often, especially one loaded with HFP parts like our tester. Maybe in the next generation. Or maybe next time, Honda will finally give us Yanks the opportunity to sample the buffer Civic Type-R, the Honda us fast-driving types actually crave. Until then, with the retirement of the S2000 and the perpetual cancellation of any sort of NSX-successor, the Civic Si remains Honda's sole performance product. Not only don't we think it's good enough, we doubt Soichiro Honda, the company's founder, would either.



:rofl:

ahahahaha


::waits for santosh to chime in::

[Vr-4-Life]

Wow... You're another VW hater just hating on Honda....

I'll tell you what... I test drove the 09 GTI and I've driven my friends slow stock civic SI.. Hell I even beat both of them many times in my del sol..

Both cars are slow.... at least the civic is in the lower 20's and not 30's like the GTI

[Elliott18t]

gtis start at 23k bud.

http://www.vw.com/gti/en/us/

[evomike]

Yea si's are alot more money than a gti the SI I owned was almost 30k.

[DannyGSX]

lol funny article. But, competes with GTI and SE-R for tuner car supremacy? :bigeek: 1) I guess they are not talking about speed 2)Idk about anyone elses area but I'm pretty sure I never see modded SE-R's.

The first time I drove in an Si(2006 2-door), I was expecting it to at least have some balls, but they really are not impressive at all. And now they are saying it'll be even slower?? Ouch. And I think the 4-door Si is a huge waste of car.

[Vr-4-Life]

gtis start at 23k bud.

http://www.vw.com/gti/en/us/

Ive never seen one at a dealership for anything close to that.... I test drove a 2010 not too long ago with NO HIDS and NOTHING and it was like 29k.... slow as hell too...

[Elliott18t]

lol funny article. But, competes with GTI and SE-R for tuner car supremacy? :bigeek: 1) I guess they are not talking about speed 2)Idk about anyone elses area but I'm pretty sure I never see modded SE-R's.

The first time I drove in an Si(2006 2-door), I was expecting it to at least have some balls, but they really not impressive at all. And now they are saying it'll be even slower?? Ouch. And I think the 4-door Si is a huge waste of car.

i see a moded SE-R once in a blue mood. I was hoping for some fun when I was driving a friends Modded Si when I hit vtec.... to no avail.. I was dissapoint.

[Elliott18t]

Ive never seen one at a dealership for anything close to that.... I test drove a 2010 not too long ago with NO HIDS and NOTHING and it was like 29k.... slow as hell too...


because both cars in article would be a base price... which is 23k msrp. Now dealers probably wont have a dead base one on the lot because they are trying to make money lol..:lol: or at least wont show you.

[evomike]

Dealers make no money on new vw's the markup is like $400.

[Elliott18t]

Dealers make no money on new vw's the markup is like $400.

yeah, I know new cars dont make much. Im jsut saying I dont think I would see a base model very often either.

[evomike]

Nobody wants a base model

[MattBear]

Dealers make no money on new vw's the markup is like $400.

how would you know?

yeah, I know new cars dont make much. Im jsut saying I dont think I would see a base model very often either.

ahem, i have a base model.


For what its worth, the Civic Si is a poor excuse of a performance trim. It has no torque, which is essential. however, it is fairly sharp looking. but that dash is GODAWFUL.

The GTI isnt a race car, its not a performance model.... its a sport hatch.
it has 200 hp, which is adequate. it isnt fast, but it is damn quick for what it is. and also, with the 6spd dsg, its impressive as anything. shifts faster than anybody physically can

Even my 5spd manual GTI would dust a Si, and its only a 1.8t which ARE NOT fast. (but fun)

and they will start around 23,000 for a base 2.0t w/ a 6spd.

I'd know...

[Elliott18t]

ahem, i have a base model.


oh i know matt lol.

[Nick Merrone]

I like nissans.

[evomike]

How would I know because I do the markup is around 4 to 500 depending on the model, that is why be never has rebates there is no redicilous mark up on Volkswagen cars.

[jpalamar]

So it just confrimed that Honda is overrated. Didn't see that coming. our HHR SS will outrun, out handle it, and costs about the same... and its a freaking school bus!

[BigWhiteTodd]

haha people are just now realizing this car is slow it runs high 14's low 15's stock far from fast.

[MattBear]

How would I know because I do the markup is around 4 to 500 depending on the model, that is why be never has rebates there is no redicilous mark up on Volkswagen cars.

word. i see all that stuff at my dealer, just checking ;)

So it just confrimed that Honda is overrated. Didn't see that coming. our HHR SS will outrun, out handle it, and costs about the same... and its a freaking school bus!

well, did you expect anything else? lol


haha people are just now realizing this car is slow it runs high 14's low 15's stock far from fast.

DING. VTEC is NOT FOR PERFORMANCE. IT IS FOR ECONOMY

[jpalamar]

well, did you expect anything else? lol

I actually did expect more.

[BigWhiteTodd]

I know right I love how people are suprized a economy car is slow, the si is to get younger people to buy it.

[TunedIS300]

so much hate.....i own a si and no there not fast in any way shape or form but i raced a stage 2 mk5 gti and completely walked it from a dig and roll. but then again it wasn stock for stock i can say nothing i like hondas and vw.

[Elliott18t]

.....lol

[92accordex]

This threads gay.

[Elliott18t]

This threads gay.

cool dude.

[92accordex]

Im not saying that cause i hate on other cars one of my dreams cars is actualy a vdub. I just think this hateful thread is retarded.

[Elliott18t]

eh, it goes both ways really.

[92accordex]

yeah but why a civic? why not like a se r or one of the other cars you mentioned. Seems like pretty much hate how you just talked bad on the civic and no other cars. You're telling most people what they already know. Civics are slow and have no tourqe and most cars are faster than them and their overpriced for what they are. Now there is a thread about it? I mean yeah you want to share with everyonee how bad hondas are and how gay they are but IMO this thread is a waste. Don't want to be negative or hate on anyone. keep on posting up keep on topic. just my .02

[Elliott18t]

this is just an article i pulled from the internet. lol. I havent seen many articles that dont praise hondas.

[TunedIS300]

boosted hondas ftw!!!! vtakkkkkkkkkkkkk

[92accordex]

Exactly, you're just spreading the honda hate on to another forum.

[92accordex]

boosted hondas ftw!!!! vtakkkkkkkkkkkkk

Realll talk brothaman. Do you go to the sonic meets in bensalem now? I seen a red/orange boosted si there last week. Did'nt know if it was you or not

[420sx]

I started my car career as a Honda enthusiast. I had three integras. Great cars.

The ONLY reason I switched to Nissan is because they made a 2door rwd car with a back seat that was in my pricerange. The S2000 was in my pricerange, but thats a car thats practical for.. hmm.. nobody? The thing I miss the MOST about my GSR.. is the transmission. After having three hondas, and going to a KA24DE, you can really appreciate a quality transmission, which is certainly nowhere to be found in a Nissan. I think Honda has just lost sight of what their customers want. They need to break out of their FWD only comfort zone, and give us an AWD or RWD car that could be a practical daily. Either some Evo/Sti competition, or some Genesis competition.

And Acura just needs to give up altogether. Have you seen that new TL? Looks like they flew it in from Mars.

[Elliott18t]

yes definately, They only make it LOOK like they are competing with the market however they are not IMO.

[TunedIS300]

Realll talk brothaman. Do you go to the sonic meets in bensalem now? I seen a red/orange boosted si there last week. Did'nt know if it was you or not

yup thats me been heading down there past couple of weeks on sundays.

[tranceporter]

my old '08 mkv gti sucked balls until i reflashed the ecu. they should of came that way stock. stage 1 (intake and reflash) dynoed me 233whp and 280wtq and a 14.0 1/4 mile time. i never drove a civic si but if it's anything like the rsx type-s it has to be sort of fun.

[Elliott18t]

my old '08 mkv gti sucked balls until i reflashed the ecu. they should of came that way stock. stage 1 (intake and reflash) dynoed me 233whp and 280wtq and a 14.0 1/4 mile time. i never drove a civic si but if it's anything like the rsx type-s it has to be sort of fun.


I think rsx type-s are funner. Friends sister has one.

I agree though, I thought the same thing when i got reflashed, lol.

[jpalamar]

I think rsx type-s are funner. Friends sister has one.

I agree though, I thought the same thing when i got reflashed, lol.

I looked at the RSX-S and the SVTf. I went with the SVTf (for the 4 doors)but it was a really close decision.

[russiankid]

So it just confrimed that Honda is overrated. Didn't see that coming. our HHR SS will outrun, out handle it, and costs about the same... and its a freaking school bus!

But needs a turbo at 15k?

[jpalamar]

But needs a turbo at 15k?

That was repleased under warrenty. And I think it was like 13k:-p

[renn]

So it just confrimed that Honda is overrated. Didn't see that coming. our HHR SS will outrun, out handle it, and costs about the same... and its a freaking school bus!

HHR's are garbage.

Only new economy cars I would buy would be a Mk5 or 6 GTI or GLI or a Civic Si, although I want to see what the next gen SI's are like.

Who cares if they're not fast, they're quick enough to have fun with and more importantly they're built well and reliable, not like your POS HHR. If I wanted a really fast car I'd build one or take my bike.

[jen.]

I love my slow 07 civic si :o

That being said, this article was not breaking news. Si's are not the quickest cars out of the box, and most of the HFP parts are a total waste of money if you're looking for significant performance changes because they really focus more on aesthetics, but this is also well known.

I think this is right on the money, though:



The ONLY reason I switched to Nissan is because they made a 2door rwd car with a back seat that was in my pricerange. The S2000 was in my pricerange, but thats a car thats practical for.. hmm.. nobody? ... I think Honda has just lost sight of what their customers want. They need to break out of their FWD only comfort zone, and give us an AWD or RWD car that could be a practical daily. Either some Evo/Sti competition, or some Genesis competition.

And Acura just needs to give up altogether. Have you seen that new TL? Looks like they flew it in from Mars.

Either way, this article seems to state what is mostly obvious about the car. And although this is being nit-picky, those who test drove the car probably did not figure out how to work the lighting on the speedometer, because you can manually make it lighter or darker depending on the time of day, and set your own personal preferences so that you don't have to "monkey around" with it all the time. Also, I've never almost run out of gas from not being able to see the gauge- but I suppose that's because I have my steering wheel positioned correctly, and I'm kind of short.

I didn't find this article to be all that negative, either. The author really didn't bring anything negative to anyone's attention that almost all si owners I know don't already complain about, anyway. I know some people are responding like this was totally flaming Honda owners, but really, who wouldn't like to see a little more power out of the si? Also, I would agree with the author that the smoothness of the transmission, the torque (being a FWD car), and the suspension, are all qualities of the car that make it totally fun to drive.

In the end, I own a slow Honda and absolutely love it, but at the same time I can agree with a lot of what this article says. I guess it's just not new news to me.

[Elliott18t]

I love my slow 07 civic si :o

That being said, this article was not breaking news. Si's are not the quickest cars out of the box, and most of the HFP parts are a total waste of money if you're looking for significant performance changes because they really focus more on aesthetics, but this is also well known.

I think this is right on the money, though:



Either way, this article seems to state what is mostly obvious about the car. And although this is being nit-picky, those who test drove the car probably did not figure out how to work the lighting on the speedometer, because you can manually make it lighter or darker depending on the time of day, and set your own personal preferences so that you don't have to "monkey around" with it all the time. Also, I've never almost run out of gas from not being able to see the gauge- but I suppose that's because I have my steering wheel positioned correctly, and I'm kind of short.

I didn't find this article to be all that negative, either. The author really didn't bring anything negative to anyone's attention that almost all si owners I know don't already complain about, anyway. I know some people are responding like this was totally flaming Honda owners, but really, who wouldn't like to see a little more power out of the si? Also, I would agree with the author that the smoothness of the transmission, the torque (being a FWD car), and the suspension, are all qualities of the car that make it totally fun to drive.

In the end, I own a slow Honda and absolutely love it, but at the same time I can agree with a lot of what this article says. I guess it's just not new news to me.

yay, you actually read the article :). (not being sarcastic)

[renn]

Forgot to even mention a I/E and a Kpro will make like 220 to the wheels all motor.

[tranceporter]

Forgot to even mention a I/E and a Kpro will make like 220 to the wheels all motor.

^ exactly. comparing these cars stock for stock is pointless. these cars all open up with bolt-on's and a tune. they're not evo's but they become really fun for a practical car

[MattBear]

^ exactly. comparing these cars stock for stock is pointless. these cars all open up with bolt-on's and a tune. they're not evo's but they become really fun for a practical car

point of the article, the civic Si is overpriced, and underperforming for what it is/does.

[tranceporter]

pretty sure it says the hfp civic si is over priced for what it's supposed to do. that's granted for any car you buy with dealer installed parts. like the article says, they're targeting people who aren't familiar with the aftermarket market or who aren't even full on car enthusiasts. you can buy an sti with all the subaru spt parts on it and it won't be much faster than stock without an ecu reflash / tune.

[Vr-4-Life]

So it just confrimed that Honda is overrated. Didn't see that coming. our HHR SS will outrun, out handle it, and costs about the same... and its a freaking school bus!


you know... now that you say that... it does look like one haha

[92accordex]

yup thats me been heading down there past couple of weeks on sundays.
Cars nice man. If i see you there sunday ill say whats up or vice versa

[Ej6Mike]

I was never particularily impressed with the 06-current SI's. I worked at a dealership and got to play around with them from time to time and they never wowed me. This is especially true because allot of the ppl i worked with had these cars, and at the end of a long hard day, we would all race outta that place to get home, and my swapped 97 civic (Properly running 3-stage d15b) kept pace right with these guys, who were pushing to redline each time.

[yick yack]

it's an economy car.... not a performance car...

[FocusDude]

You are all calling these Economy cars, there's no economy in a car with 2 doors starting at 20k+... check out the B segment.

[Slick 87]

If you ask me, they have always had the performance mindset of doing more with less. (think small but well engineered engines, with less power then the competition i.e. nsx and s2000) the civic si seems to fit in with this. less power, but amazing handling for its class, to get around a track quickly. Cars that are more rewarding in the hands of a skilled driver, where crazy hp cant mask mistakes.


i too do not like the direction Honda is going though, but I'm sure they have their financial reasons for doing so.

Glad I have my s2000! Last of the true performance Honda's for the foreseeable future.

[venhith]

lol yup my Si is slow. paid 18.5k OTD new. will admit its not the fastest car around but they are a fun DD.

[venhith]

it's an economy car.... not a performance car...

Why are you calling this an economy car? cuz of the MPG?

[renn]

it is an economy car, a sporty one but still an economy car. people who look at any of these cars with the mindset that it's a race car won't be impressed.

[Honduh]

Even though I know the article wasn't meant to exactly hate on honda's, the way the OP presented and laughed at the end was him clearly trying to dump on hondas.

Its typical vw owner fashion to hate on hondas for some odd reason, but you never see it the other way around. Go to waterfest or any other vdub show and you can find stickers, shirts, hats, ect. Expressing a total hate and lack of respect for anyone who drives a honda, its disgusting. Go to a honda-day and all you see is puerto rican flags.........lol....but you never see them singling out or hating on anyone specific.

Ryan, I didn't think you were like this.

[yick yack]

Why are you calling this an economy car? cuz of the MPG?

Because a Honda Civic is a economy car...

[Supraru]

Forgot to even mention a I/E and a Kpro will make like 220 to the wheels all motor.

Cool brah. :eek:

[gotvtec?]

Si>gti, ser gli any generation

[gotvtec?]

For a n/a 2.0 it puts down 200 hp thats pretty impressive

[renn]

Cool brah. :eek:

?

i can't point out that a tuned Si will make as much power as a WRX, without a turbo?

i don't understand the hate between car owners. grow up.

[Chris B.]

Go to a honda-day and all you see is puerto rican flags.........lol....but you never see them singling out or hating on anyone specific.


I've seen quite a bit of hate displayed through stickers on various hondas over the years at import/sport compact car shows. There are people like that in every group of car owners.

[gotvtec?]

Go to youtube and look up phillycivicsi2007 and then click on the video "never underestkmate a 4cylinder"

[Chris B.]

The things that always kept me away from an Si was the price of the car and the insurance costs. Several times over the past 10 years I test drove Civic Si's and liked them. However, their insurance always was more than the insurance on the same model year Mustang and Camaro(during the years when the Camaro was available) and the cost of the Si was rather high.

Back in 2008 when I was new car shopping, I test drove two well equipped Civic Si's with the summer tires and one had Nav. The local Honda dealers all wanted sticker price for the Si'. For a little bit more, I could get a Mazdaspeed3, WRX, or Mustang GT with similar or more options and also pay less for insurance. The same thing happened in 1999 and 2000 when I was new car shopping. A Mustang GT(and several other more expensive cars I test drove such as the SVT Contour and Firebird) cost less than the Civic Si when you factored in both the monthly insurance cost and payments on a 60 month loan. I never saw the value per dollar in the Si when you factored in both the cost of the car and the insurance. The difference in gas mielage didn't make up for the huge increase in insurance cost either. Back in 2003 I think it was, I could get a SRT-4 and insure it for less than a new Si and insurance on the Si.

If Honda offered the drivetrain and suspension of the Si with the interior of a base model Civic for a few thousand dollars less, I might have bought one. I really didn't want or care for the sunroof and upgraded interior and radio and some of the other options.

[gotvtec?]

Dude i got all my 07+ civic si's for under 22k otd u just gotta know where to look all brand new and 2 of em fully loaded

[Chris B.]

Go to youtube and look up phillycivicsi2007 and then click on the video "never underestkmate a 4cylinder"

Anyone can modify a car to be faster than another car and the nut behind the wheel is also huge factor in what is faster.

[Chris B.]

Dude i got all my 07+ civic si's for under 22k otd u just gotta know where to look all brand new and 2 of em fully loaded

When I got my 2008 Mustang GT, there were dealers selling 2008 GT's for $20,500. You could get a GT Premium with some options for $22,700. The Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring was also going for about $23K at the same time at my local dealers. The Si didn't seem liek agreat deal at that point, especially when you factor in the much higher insurance costs four insurance companies quoted me.

[gotvtec?]

Brand new gt's for 20k? Damn i missed out! Anyways u cant compare the si's to ms3's and v8s come on now i thought this thread was for si's being compared to gti's and ser's

[Chris B.]

Brand new gt's for 20k? Damn i missed out! Anyways u cant compare the si's to ms3's and v8s come on now i thought this thread was for si's being compared to gti's and ser's

If the cost is similar why not compare them? Whenever I go car shopping, I try to research and test drive everything in my price range that isn't boring.

Didn't Honda sell a Mugen Si with a $30K sticker price a few years ago? That's around the price of what a new 350Z Track or Enthusiast cost at that time. I don't see why you can't compare cars if they aren't similar in price.

[gotvtec?]

Dude as much as i dont agree of the price of a mugen it was limited edition

[Supraru]

?

i can't point out that a tuned Si will make as much power as a WRX, without a turbo?

i don't understand the hate between car owners. grow up.

Uhh....you might wanna get your facts strait.

2010 si will make 230 whp with an intake, exhaust and tune. Sweet :roll:

2010 wrx with an intake, exhaust, tune will make around 300 whp and around 310 wtq.

Sounds like you win there dude. :thumbup:

[Honduh]

ill be honest and say that id take a wrx over a new si, you'd be a idiot not to.

[Supraru]

Go to youtube and look up phillycivicsi2007 and then click on the video "never underestkmate a 4cylinder"

That's funny because that's the second time you've pointed out this video of someone beating a 1996 mustang gt. Those cars are slow as hell. I would not be proud of that.

[renn]

unless things have really changed since i had my STi, i doubt the new WRX's make more than stg.2 STi's do.. maybe like 260-270 whp. not that impressive considering the size of the 2010 WRX turbos. especially since they're 2.5L's now too, right?


ill be honest and say that id take a wrx over a new si, you'd be a idiot not to.


i'd take a GTI over both. but the K20 is a much sweeter motor than the EJ, or the 2.0T.

[Supraru]

unless things have really changed since i had my STi, i doubt the new WRX's make more than stg.2 STi's do.. maybe like 260-270 whp. not that impressive considering the size of the 2010 WRX turbos.

Maybe you've never seen an sti or new wrx turbo.....they aren't that big. The vf52's are the new hot ish all the little kids wanna upgrade to for something quick and cheap on earlier wrx's. With a good driver you're talking mid to high 12's. Not bad at all.

Your comments make no sense. That's just like saying that the 09-10 wrx can't beat the sti in the quarter mile either stock for stock but it can. The only differences in buying an sti now a days is the suspension, brakes/wheels, factory wide body, and a 6 speed for the most part. And now the 2011 wrx's come with the factory wider body and better rims. So now the only differences are the trans and brakes.

Stop honda nut swinging dude. You lost this argument.

[gotvtec?]

That's funny because that's the second time you've pointed out this video of someone beating a 1996 mustang gt. Those cars are slow as hell. I would not be proud of that.

Its actually a fully bolted and tuned 06 gt

[92accordex]

Blahblahblah old honda FTW!

[renn]

lol, not nut swinging at all, i had a 400whp STi that ran 11's.

[92accordex]

lol, not nut swinging at all, i had a 400whp STi that ran 11's.

And now you have a ek? Whys that? Maybe because they're awesome

[Honduh]

i'd take a GTI over both. but the K20 is a much sweeter motor than the EJ, or the 2.0T.

The new gti's look like civics.

I agree the k20 is an awesome motor.....in a eg, ef, da lol.

[Supraru]

Its actually a fully bolted and tuned 06 gt

And they are still slow as balls.

[gotvtec?]

Yea i guess so lol and i think renn was reffering to the 2007 and below wrxs the 09s + are beasts

[Supraru]

lol, not nut swinging at all, i had a 400whp STi that ran 11's.

Super cool dude. But you are still wrong trying to make an si cooler. You tried to compare an si with bolt ons to a wrx with bolt ons and lost. Next time get your facts strait before you think 230 whp with bolt ons and a tune is great now a days.

[renn]

And now you have a ek? Whys that? Maybe because they're awesome

i miss my EK a lot more than my subaru. the shell had 160K on it and it made no rattles at all, rode better on coilovers, and was more fun to drive. the STi handled better at the limit and you can't deny AWD out of turns.. but the civic was the better car, IMHO.

The new gti's look like civics.

I agree the k20 is an awesome motor.....in a eg, ef, da lol.

had a k20 in my EK, :drag:

[Supraru]

Yea i guess so lol and i think renn was reffering to the 2007 and below wrxs the 09s + are beasts

the 2006 and 2007 wrx's with td04's and the 2.5l still make a little more whp then the si would and lets just say you wouldn't even be close to comparing the tq. They also made around 300 wtq out of that tiny little td04. He still loses that argument there. You'd have to go to the 2.0l's to even get close to winning that argument. Still the edge would go to the wrx.

[renn]

Super cool dude. But you are still wrong trying to make an si cooler. You tried to compare an si with bolt ons to a wrx with bolt ons and lost. Next time get your facts strait before you think 230 whp with bolt ons and a tune is great now a days.

how am i trying to make an Si cooler? the Si has a more impressive engine, period. anyone can make a turbo motor fast. it's easy to turn up the boost.. :roll:

230 whp out of 2.0 liters with bolt ons, all motor, is amazing.

like i said, wouldn't buy a new Si, or a WRX. i'd buy the GTI because it's the classier DD.

[Supraru]

how am i trying to make an Si cooler? the Si has a more impressive engine, period. anyone can make a turbo motor fast. it's easy to turn up the boost.. :roll:

230 whp out of 2.0 liters with bolt ons, all motor, is amazing.

like i said, wouldn't buy a new Si, or a WRX. i'd buy the GTI because it's the classier DD.

Yeah sure it's impressive. But really who cares? The way you tried to compare it was wrong. You should have just stated yeah I think 230 hp is impressive out of the honda 2.0 instead of trying to compare it to a car that performance wise just isn't up to par on and is in a complete different class.

The 2.5l turbocharged subaru engine has also won design awards too being one of the best engines in it's class.

[gotvtec?]

K20 is far more immpressive than a ej25. When people talk about great motors no one even mentions a ej 25. If i had to pick top 5 motors ever in the last 15 years i would have to say k20s, 4g63s, 2jz detts, rb26s, and vq35s. Not in order but def top 5. This is comparison is between the k20 motor and the ej25.

[Supraru]

K20 is far more immpressive than a ej25. When people talk about great motors no one even mentions a ej 25. If i had to pick top 5 motors ever in the last 15 years i would have to say k20s, 4g63s, 2jz detts, rb26s, and vq35s. Not in order but def top 5. This is comparison is between the k20 motor and the ej25.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I personally would never waste my time with a k20. I like an engine with tq.

[gotvtec?]

But after 4k does tq even matter as much as hp especially when your at the track your always in high rpms

[SpEcRv9]

SE-Rs are slow and the new gen look like pruises

/ that discussion.

[gotvtec?]

Lol i liked the previous gen

[SpEcRv9]

we're alright :mrgreen:

[Honduh]

But after 4k does tq even matter as much as hp especially when your at the track your always in high rpms


Really?

I think its time to sell my honda, its just going to get stolen once its done.

[Asif22]

how would you know?



ahem, i have a base model.


For what its worth, the Civic Si is a poor excuse of a performance trim. It has no torque, which is essential. however, it is fairly sharp looking. but that dash is GODAWFUL.

The GTI isnt a race car, its not a performance model.... its a sport hatch.
it has 200 hp, which is adequate. it isnt fast, but it is damn quick for what it is. and also, with the 6spd dsg, its impressive as anything. shifts faster than anybody physically can

Even my 5spd manual GTI would dust a Si, and its only a 1.8t which ARE NOT fast. (but fun)

and they will start around 23,000 for a base 2.0t w/ a 6spd.

I'd know...

yea ok a 1.8t is a 15 second car...an si can do mid 14's...the tq doesnt make the gti faster than the si...the gti stock doesnt do better than a mid 14. and modded si even before flashpro have gotten mid to high 13s. If you think the 1.8t is quick for what it is then so is the si...because its faster or its door to door with the new gti. Tq is great but ppl nutride it...If its so important how come it can't pull buses on the Si instead of being door to door with it or losing.

[Chris B.]

Its actually a fully bolted and tuned 06 gt

:roll:

The Mustang is very far from full bolt ons and its a canned tune. It also only has an axle back exhaust and not a full exhaust as the video lead people to believe. The axle back exhaust gives a whole 2 HP gain.

Most of the 05-09 Mustang GT,'s like the one in that video, with full bolt ons and a tune are consistently mid 12 second cars with 110 MPH trap speeds on street tires. Not drag radials, real street tires.

Most of the newer Si's I've seen with bolt ons and a tune are mid to low 13 second cars on street tires.

But after 4k does tq even matter as much as hp especially when your at the track your always in high rpms

Actually torque always does matter in two ways. In two cars with similar gearing and weight, the car with more torque is usually faster unless there is a huge horsepower difference. For the car with less torque to be faster, it needs different gearing or a big horsepower advantage. Also torque at the wheels through gearing matters. That why high reving, low torque at the flywheel cas have different gearing than cars that don't rev as high and have a lot more torque.

[Chris B.]

K20 is far more immpressive than a ej25. When people talk about great motors no one even mentions a ej 25. If i had to pick top 5 motors ever in the last 15 years i would have to say k20s, 4g63s, 2jz detts, rb26s, and vq35s. Not in order but def top 5. This is comparison is between the k20 motor and the ej25.

I might agree with you on the VQ35, but I disagree on the rest.

[gotvtec?]

Atleast we agree on something. No but that 06 has a full exhaust but i was wrong it only had intake and exhaust at the time but regardless it couldnt pull away from the si.

[Supraru]

But after 4k does tq even matter as much as hp especially when your at the track your always in high rpms

Holy ish. Did you really just say that? You should get rid of your car before it's to late. You've got the makings of a super fanboy

[gotvtec?]

:roll:

The Mustang is very far from full bolt ons and its a canned tune. It also only has an axle back exhaust and not a full exhaust as the video lead people to believe. The axle back exhaust gives a whole 2 HP gain.

Most of the 05-09 Mustang GT,'s like the one in that video, with full bolt ons and a tune are consistently mid 12 second cars with 110 MPH trap speeds on street tires. Not drag radials, real street tires.

Most of the newer Si's I've seen with bolt ons and a tune are mid to low 13 second cars on street tires.


I cant believe people dont thibk thats impressive.

[R22B]

K20 is far more immpressive than a ej25. When people talk about great motors no one even mentions a ej 25. If i had to pick top 5 motors ever in the last 15 years i would have to say k20s, 4g63s, 2jz detts, rb26s, and vq35s. Not in order but def top 5. This is comparison is between the k20 motor and the ej25.

Actually, an EJ22T is the best engine Subaru has ever produced. :supz:

My problem with the Si is that its wearing a performance badge without being a performance car right from the factory. Its like taking a base model Impreza, slapping the STi moniker on it without really doing anything, and selling it because they know it will sell and jacking the price up $10k and then you're in a whole different range of cars that can actually outperform it.

For mid-$20k's, it'd be a WRX $24k w/ AWD @ 265HP, Ford Mustang V6 22k w/ 316HP @ 30MPG), Chevrolet Camaro LS $22k w/ 304HP @ 29MPG.

[Chris B.]

I cant believe people dont thibk thats impressive.

My daily driven all motor Ford Escort with a stock bottom end also ran 13's and so did quite a few others. I had several friends with daily driven, all motor '95-'99 neons that also ran low 13's on street tires and ran high 12's on slicks. 13's isn't impressive for a modified, daily driven, full interior, all motor 4 cylinder these days. Its nothing new. We were doing it 10 years ago.

[Chris B.]

Atleast we agree on something. No but that 06 has a full exhaust but i was wrong it only had intake and exhaust at the time but regardless it couldnt pull away from the si.

What you are telling me is the Mustang driver can't drive. :lol:

[gotvtec?]

Yea it would be wrong if subaru slapped on a sti badge on it but you act like honda did the same thing with the si. No they didnt, because the si obiviously has a different motor, suspension, and even a lsd which iirc the gti and spec v's dont even offer. Why are we comparing superior cars to the si isnt this thread about the si vs gti's, spec v's and other fwd cars under 220hp? I guess you guys cant see a honda on top of that list so you start comoaring it to better cars.

[gotvtec?]

My daily driven all motor Ford Escort with a stock bottom end also ran 13's and so did quite a few others. I had several friends with daily driven, all motor '95-'99 neons that also ran low 13's on street tires and ran high 12's on slicks. 13's isn't impressive for a modified, daily driven, full interior, all motor 4 cylinder these days. Its nothing new. We were doing it 10 years ago.
Again what mods do these 12 second cars have? I think its impressive the si with just intake header and exhaust without a tune runs 13s

What you are telling me is the Mustang driver can't drive. :lol:

Yea the car lacked driver mod

[TunedIS300]

wit a little work si can run low 13 i would know i ran it last nite at maple grove and i own a 08 si..i was also wat water fest every car ran like 14s and 15s...

[R22B]

Yea it would be wrong if subaru slapped on a sti badge on it but you act like honda did the same thing with the si. No they didnt, because the si obiviously has a different motor, suspension, and even a lsd which iirc the gti and spec v's dont even offer. Why are we comparing superior cars to the si isnt this thread about the si vs gti's, spec v's and other fwd cars under 220hp? I guess you guys cant see a honda on top of that list so you start comoaring it to better cars.

I base cars off of price. If the latest Honda Civic cost $22k, doesn't break 200hp, and gets under 30mpg, I'd rather pick up a 2011 v6 mustang which outperforms it in every aspect. Now opening it up and modding it is a different story, but from the factory, the Si is quite a snore.

The Mustang and Civic are different beast, but for the price, the Mustang is a much better purchase. Civic hater or not, you have to acknowledge it.

[MattBear]

Tq is great but ppl nutride it...

are you the idiot who says you dont need torque???

need i remind everyone, that torque is the PHYSICAL force of rotation?

And FWIW, i've driven a friend 09 SI with an exhaust and intake, and i can assure you my GTI would outrun it stock.

No that has NOTHING to do with driving either, i guarantee given both vehicles as they sit i would make a better track time with my GTI.

[MattBear]

wit a little work si can run low 13 i would know i ran it last nite at maple grove and i own a 08 si..i was also wat water fest every car ran like 14s and 15s...

what did you run then tony?

[TunedIS300]

what did you run then tony?

ran 13.3 at 112mph was my best run out of 4 runs highest time was 13.6 at 99mph and on all runs i didnt hold all 10pounds and im still rockin a cat so a little work i can do 13 flat all day. not sayin stock si can do that bu twhat the fun if u cant make a slow car fast? and an all motor k20 makes power so idk what the hating is all about.

[Asif22]

Holy ish. Did you really just say that? You should get rid of your car before it's to late. You've got the makings of a super fanboy

You are the one who sounds like a fanboy. Torque is great but how come some of these wrxs can't pull away from a bolt on si? even a stock wrx...they have way more tq.

The si can do a mid 13 with bolt ons which is with like 150 lb ft of tq...Don't see why everyone is hating on it.

[Asif22]

ran 13.3 at 112mph was my best run out of 4 runs highest time was 13.6 at 99mph and on all runs i didnt hold all 10pounds and im still rockin a cat so a little work i can do 13s all day. not sayin stock si can do that bu what the fun if u cant make a slow car fast?

With a little work you can get into the 12's easy

[MattBear]

You are the one who sounds like a fanboy. Torque is great but how come some of these wrxs can't pull away from a bolt on si? even a stock wrx...they have way more tq.

The si can do a mid 13 with bolt ons which is with like 150 lb ft of tq...Don't see why everyone is hating on it.

clearly, since tony is running 13's with an aftermarket turbo setup.....

[TunedIS300]

clearly, since tony is running 13's with an aftermarket turbo setup.....

yea bolted on si run high 13 to mid 14...if i didnt baby it off the line and i had some supporting mods such as 3in pipe all the way bak i will break 12. but id be happy if i ran 14 wit my set up cuz i keep up wit alot of cars so it doesnt really matter...

[TunedIS300]

clearly, since tony is running 13's with an aftermarket turbo setup.....

its ok tho if i wanna go fast ill drive my e46 m3.

[ndubz]

I think the article was mistaken in their grouping of "hot hatches". The way I see the market, Stis, and evos are really up there with the Nissan Z etc (30-40k, low 300bhp range etc). then u have the "higher" hot hatches (if u will) like the MS3, cobalt SS, formerly the Neon SRT4, WRX, and the Lancer Ralliart. then u have the entry hot hatches like the Civic Si, vW gti, etc. this works for performance, however i know that the prices of some of those middle class cars can be in the low 20s as well which brings value into question.

i consider the civic Si to be a good thing, its a decently performing stock civic, that way it avoids the ricer stigma (idk by how much, but it does IMO)

the market just changes, back in 04 when my sti was new, it was in the same performance class as a BMW M3 and porsche 911 carrera. but since then those cars have moved on and become far higher in performance that the sti and evo.....its just the way things go i guess. new segments pop up.

[MattBear]

yea bolted on si run high 13 to mid 14...if i didnt drive ****ty and i had some supporting mods such as 3in pipe all the way bak i will break 12. but id be happy if i ran 14 wit my set up cuz i keep up wit alot of cars so it doesnt really matter...



its ok tho if i wanna go fast ill drive my e46 m3.

those are slow. get an e30 - the real BMW chassis

[TunedIS300]

those are slow. get an e30 - the real BMW chassis

e30 are sweet.

[gotvtec?]

Ill run any stock gti any year and ill give u a half a car and i have a stock si btw who is down to go from a 30

[Asif22]

clearly, since tony is running 13's with an aftermarket turbo setup.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYDUJIlDbg

There. That was before flashpro even came out. Tony's set up is well capable of 12's...No offense to him but the greddy kit isn't anything special

[Fujito]

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr247/Fujito89/retardvtec.jpg

[Asif22]

are you the idiot who says you dont need torque???

need i remind everyone, that torque is the PHYSICAL force of rotation?

And FWIW, i've driven a friend 09 SI with an exhaust and intake, and i can assure you my GTI would outrun it stock.

No that has NOTHING to do with driving either, i guarantee given both vehicles as they sit i would make a better track time with my GTI.

And tq is nothing without rpm. My friend raced a gti in his si with only an intake beat him. Phillycivicsi pulled on 2 new model GTI's and he was stock at the time.

We know what the Si does stock 14.6-14.8 with a good driver. Show me a stock GTI doing better. You are so misinformed, you call me an idiot. A GTI stock can smoke an Si right? If the Si does mid 14's show me a video of a 13 sec GTI bone stock?

Sidenote: You drove the Si and you are sure you can outrun it? haha...according to what your butt dyno? Oh please. That is the problem with torque, it makes slower cars seem faster than they really are. The mustang had well over 100 lb feet of tq on the Si in that video...What happened there? crotch rockets have no torque, f1 cars have no torque, and ferraris even build smaller motors with higher hp relative to torque.

[gotvtec?]

Tony trapped at 112 which imo is easily a mid 12 sec cable car

[gotvtec?]

And tq is nothing without rpm. My friend raced a gti in his si with only an intake beat him. gotvtec? pulled on 2 new model GTI's and he was stock at the time.

We know what the Si does stock 14.6-14.8 with a good driver. Show me a stock GTI doing better. You are so misinformed, you call me an idiot. A GTI stock can smoke an Si right? If the Si does mid 14's show me a video of a 13 sec GTI bone stock?

Fixed ;)

And btw i ran a gti with a flash intake and dpipe and i got him by 2 cars

[gotvtec?]

Mkv btw

[Asif22]

Mattbear has a 1.8t gti? Thats a 15 sec car stock, so don't kid yourself.

[Fujito]

Vtak!
Vdub!

[Asif22]

Vtak!
Vdub!

some vdub owners get so bitter its hilarious.

[Fujito]

Well you know how I feel about Vdubs.

[Asif22]

Well you know how I feel about Vdubs.

lmao yes

[gotvtec?]

Mattbear has a 1.8t gti? Thats a 15 sec car stock, so don't kid yourself.

I hope he finds me a stock1.8t to spank

[Fujito]

It's good to see you two double teaming the Vdubsters.

If you add the HP of both your cars together you'll have my HP.

[gotvtec?]

But still not enough tq haha

[Fujito]

On Thursday night As If and Kev were in my car and Kev said something like, "There's torque. My head is moving."

hahaha

[Asif22]

^ lol I remember that...it really does though. Your car pulls pretty damn hard. I like. Just bring some sushi next time

[MattBear]

Mkv btw

my 1.8t outruns stock mk5s by a teeny bit somehow :screwy:

I hope he finds me a stock1.8t to spank

i haz one!!!

im not saying my GTI is fast, believe me its not. but i'm confident with proper driving, it would see a high 14 sec time.

however, my old jetta vr6 was quicker than the gti, i mean ****, my old VR outran 225whp chipped 1.8t's.

im not arguing you can make an Si quick/fast.... but! in stock form they leave much to be desired in the performance department. when i drove the 09 Si, i was amused but not blown away, when i first drove my GTI, i was impressed.

eh, regardless... i drive a fatty mk4 1.8t its quick and entertaining, but i'd rather have my old VR6 back, and just slap a hx-35

at least the mk4 is quicker than my slowbox....
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss314/SlammedEuro/IMG_0340.jpg

but i really want this one back:

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss314/SlammedEuro/IMG_0869-1.jpg

[jspek]

what the hell is going on here?

[Fujito]

what the hell is going on here?

Vdubs and Vtaks are pitting it out for low $20,000 car supremacy.

Unfortunately, Cobalts win, but no one really cares since they are... Cobalts.

[mx931]

car looks like a carolla....like the ones that are out right now

im too lazy to read the previous 4 pages sorry my comment isnt leaning towards one way. really dont care

[Asif22]

Ok if you can get a high 14 pass out of it thats great...I don't understand how that would "dust" an Si though.

how would you know?



ahem, i have a base model.


For what its worth, the Civic Si is a poor excuse of a performance trim. It has no torque, which is essential. however, it is fairly sharp looking. but that dash is GODAWFUL.

The GTI isnt a race car, its not a performance model.... its a sport hatch.
it has 200 hp, which is adequate. it isnt fast, but it is damn quick for what it is. and also, with the 6spd dsg, its impressive as anything. shifts faster than anybody physically can

Even my 5spd manual GTI would dust a Si, and its only a 1.8t which ARE NOT fast. (but fun)

and they will start around 23,000 for a base 2.0t w/ a 6spd.

I'd know...

[gotvtec?]

Its corolla noob

[Asif22]

BTW this is the worst review of a car I have ever read...You don't need to be going 150mph to make use of a spoiler for downforce.

HFP seats and shift knob? That doesn't even exist. The person who reviewed that car is even dumber than some of the people in this thread.

[gotvtec?]

Hfp seats lmao

[mx931]

Its corolla noob

does it actually matter?

[gotvtec?]

Yea it does lol

[Supraru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYDUJIlDbg

There. That was before flashpro even came out. Tony's set up is well capable of 12's...No offense to him but the greddy kit isn't anything special

Sweet here's a 2.0 wrx with bolt ons and a tune running a 12.4@111

People can post video's all day.

[Supraru]

You are the one who sounds like a fanboy. Torque is great but how come some of these wrxs can't pull away from a bolt on si? even a stock wrx...they have way more tq.

The si can do a mid 13 with bolt ons which is with like 150 lb ft of tq...Don't see why everyone is hating on it.

I love the mag racing here. You do realize how much less an si weighs then a wrx right? The only time these bolt on civics can keep up with STOCK wrx's are 2.0l's. But then at that point one quck cheap easy little flash. I on the other hand had a 2.0l td04'd rs that weighed around what a stock si was and I can tell you for sure how much weight made a difference. I'd just laugh.

What I also laugh at is people actually believe that. It's funny when there are real life track times and internet times. That clearly sounds like an internet time. It all starts from that dude who ran a 14.1 with just an intake or maybe it was stock. Then some d-bag gets it in his head with bolt ons they are mid 13's. haha

[TunedIS300]

I love the mag racing here. You do realize how much less an si weighs then a wrx right? The only time these bolt on civics can keep up with STOCK wrx's are 2.0l's. But then at that point one quck cheap easy little flash. I on the other hand had a 2.0l td04'd rs that weighed around what a stock si was and I can tell you for sure how much weight made a difference. I'd just laugh.

What I also laugh at is people actually believe that. It's funny when there are real life track times and internet times. That clearly sounds like an internet time. It all starts from that dude who ran a 14.1 with just an intake or maybe it was stock. Then some d-bag gets it in his head with bolt ons they are mid 13's. haha

i hope you are referring to me as the d-dag because i posted the times i ran....granted im not all motor but i did run low 13s wit my setup which is pretty decent considering the kit i have is probly the worst kit for my car. but seems like ur taking this online fourm thing a little to serious

[Fujito]

I love the mag racing here. You do realize how much less an si weighs then a wrx right? The only time these bolt on civics can keep up with STOCK wrx's are 2.0l's. But then at that point one quck cheap easy little flash. I on the other hand had a 2.0l td04'd rs that weighed around what a stock si was and I can tell you for sure how much weight made a difference. I'd just laugh.

What I also laugh at is people actually believe that. It's funny when there are real life track times and internet times. That clearly sounds like an internet time. It all starts from that dude who ran a 14.1 with just an intake or maybe it was stock. Then some d-bag gets it in his head with bolt ons they are mid 13's. haha

You mad?

[Supraru]

i hope you are referring to me as the d-dag because i posted the times i ran....granted im not all motor but i did run low 13s wit my setup which is pretty decent considering the kit i have is probly the worst kit for my car. but seems like ur taking this online fourm thing a little to serious

Not referring to you. You ran a mid 13 with a turbo kit. I laugh at the guys who think with minor bolt ons si's are mid 13 second cars.

[Supraru]

You mad?

Not at all. It's always entertaining to me. These honda guys come up with the craziest lies about their cars to make them seem better. :lol:

[Fujito]

Make peace with the Hondas Supraru

[Supraru]

Make peace with the Hondas Supraru

Only thing I'd ever do to a honda would be daily drive it.

[scottsworld717]

k-serios ftw lol
if you guys want to see a fast 4 door si come to honda day it should set some records its not my car but the owner of import dps thee motor is getting put in this week and will make some power

[gotvtec?]

Yea ricks fa5 is def breakin records he saidhe was shootin for 11s all motor

[jen.]

Wow, this thread blew up quick.

Seriously though, I don't get the big deal. People purchase different cars for different reasons. Not everyone can place speed and torque as their number one priority when purchasing a car.

Personally, I would never spend 22K + for an Si brand new, because if I had that sort of money, I feel I would have a lot more options, but that's just me.

I don't get what the big deal is though. I know many people Si owners who bought the car, not because they thought it would be some crazy fast car with tons of torque, but simply for reliability, brand loyalty, good gas mileage, family needs (i.e. a back seat for small children), while still retaining some form of a platform for later modifications to enhance the car's capabilities. Not everyone has the money or the priorities to buy an all out sports car.

I personally think the Si is a great option for those that need a reliable DD that still has potential for greater performance while at the same time, comes from the factory being a fun car to drive (again, in my opinion and that's why I own one).

Either way, I think its ridiculous for criticizing anyone else for their choice in purchasing a car, when everyone who has ever purchased a car has different priorities and financial situations. I realize that everything gets blown out of proportion once petty fights arise over who can beat who on the track but really, if you personally like the car that you bought, and you bought it because you are a reasonable person who has their priorities in line, then what does it matter if no one else likes the car or if its not quite as fast as your friend's car out on the track? Just saying, it seems silly.

I realize that some of the anger comes from the Si claiming to be a sports car, but for Honda Civics, it is the sportier version. For years Honda has produced the Civic and also the N/A version of the Civic with a larger, better motor, stiffer suspension, and upgraded features. I don't think they have done anything more than to continue that tradition in the 8th generation models, and therefore, as far as Civics are concerned, it is a better, sportier model.

Most of what the article was trying to convey was that the HFP parts for the Si were not in fact conducive to significant performance enhancements, which I think most people can agree with. There's no reason for animosity, though.

/rant.

[Chris B.]

Vdubs and Vtaks are pitting it out for low $20,000 car supremacy.

Unfortunately, Cobalts win, but no one really cares since they are... Cobalts.

:lol:

I test drove two turbo Cobalt SS's. Its a fun car, but it felt like a $12,000 car with nice seats and a good motor, not like a $23K car. In that respect, the Civic Si is a better car if youcare more aboout the interior than you do about the speed.

[jspek]

Why are people arguing over a fwd economy car?

[Asif22]

Not referring to you. You ran a mid 13 with a turbo kit. I laugh at the guys who think with minor bolt ons si's are mid 13 second cars.

And I laugh at you because I posted actually proof, not sure what else you want. The turbo is si capable of 12's easy. Just look at the trap speed.

[Asif22]

Not at all. It's always entertaining to me. These honda guys come up with the craziest lies about their cars to make them seem better. :lol:

I backed up my claims.

[Asif22]

I love the mag racing here. You do realize how much less an si weighs then a wrx right? The only time these bolt on civics can keep up with STOCK wrx's are 2.0l's. But then at that point one quck cheap easy little flash. I on the other hand had a 2.0l td04'd rs that weighed around what a stock si was and I can tell you for sure how much weight made a difference. I'd just laugh.

What I also laugh at is people actually believe that. It's funny when there are real life track times and internet times. That clearly sounds like an internet time. It all starts from that dude who ran a 14.1 with just an intake or maybe it was stock. Then some d-bag gets it in his head with bolt ons they are mid 13's. haha

They are mid 13 you just don't want to beleive a honda could run with a subaru.

Obviously the Si weighs less. Are you going to cry now? The Si weighs what it is and so does the subaru. The subaru comes with a damn turbo and you want to complain about weight? I know the Si weighs less that why I like it. I love how it can do mid 13's with 150wtq.

[Supraru]

And I laugh at you because I posted actually proof, not sure what else you want. The turbo is si capable of 12's easy. Just look at the trap speed.

How is posting a vid of someones run off youtube proof? I could go run a 10.5 and claim my car has an exhaust. Then morons on the internet would argue over weather it's possible. Just like I posted that subaru with a stock turbo running a 12.4. That vid is completely fake. But dudes like you would think it's real.

I'll tell ya what, grab your boy the mustang smoker up there and we'll go to the track and watch him lay down a mid 13 second pass. If he does I'll pay his entrance fee, if he doesn't then you pay my entrance. Sounds pretty strait up. All you guys just like to talk smack so I'm calling you out in a friendly call out.

Let all your excuses start to flow.

[gotvtec?]

Umm i cant gotta fix my car my turbo timer is slipping

[Supraru]

Umm i cant gotta fix my car my turbo timer is slipping

All you internet talkers. Go hit mid 13's.

[TunedIS300]

im in for the track since ur payin.

[Supraru]

im in for the track since ur payin.

You're boosted not bolt ons running mid 13's like your honda boys claim. I'm simply calling them out. Your boy gotvtec? should be running mid 13's and my guess is he gets nowhere near that. Maybe mid 14's if he's really lucky. But nothing will come out of this since all honda guys do is talk and don't back it up.

[Supraru]

They are mid 13 you just don't want to beleive a honda could run with a subaru.

Obviously the Si weighs less. Are you going to cry now? The Si weighs what it is and so does the subaru. The subaru comes with a damn turbo and you want to complain about weight? I know the Si weighs less that why I like it. I love how it can do mid 13's with 150wtq.

Lets go to the track and prove it. You won't because you're a mag racer.

[BigWhiteTodd]

I have seen a 07 si 4dr run a 13.6 full bolt on so idk

[Supraru]

I have seen a 07 si 4dr run a 13.6 full bolt on so idk

I just find it hilarious that people talk smack then when you call them out they disappear.

[BigWhiteTodd]

yeah it can be done but those si's are slow stock big deal when has there every been a fast stock honda

[Asif22]

LMAO I don't even have an Si but I know what they are capable of.

The video is fake huh? You are really going to resort to that now? So he doesn't have bolt ons only? Since you KNOW its fake...what else does it have? It's not worth arguing with ignorant people who will claim everything is a lie to make their stupid logic seem somewhat normal.

I'll ask him to go to the track I would love to see this. But I don't see the point in this because if he does I know you will claim its spraying or it's cammed or something. And honestly, you don't matter enough to me for me to go out of my way and prove it. Its a well known fact a bolt on and tuned new si can hit mid 13's, if you don't want to believe it I don't really care.

[Asif22]

I have seen a 07 si 4dr run a 13.6 full bolt on so idk

Nope your lying not possible. Only subarus can do that. Hondas run 17's and with bolt ons they run 16.5. A subaru runs 10's stock and can run 8's with an intake. I don't even need proof because its a subaru.

[Honduh]

As rediculous as this thread has become, I must say I have seen new si's run high to mid 13s at the track and plenty of vids on youtube.

However I don't own one to show you myself, but neither do you so you are just assuming. Just like I'm assuming the reason tunedis300 ran a 13 is because he was probably spinning a lot, he said he trapped 110 I think?

So unless you can prove that a si is uncapable of 13, then you are just as bad as everyone else.

[jjm4life]

lolz at arguing over 13 second cars.

[gotvtec?]

You're boosted not bolt ons running mid 13's like your honda boys claim. I'm simply calling them out. Your boy gotvtec? should be running mid 13's and my guess is he gets nowhere near that. Maybe mid 14's if he's really lucky. But nothing will come out of this since all honda guys do is talk and don't back it up.

i never once said my car can do that i dont have full bolt ons.

[james_ls]

I'm in to play :)

[venhith]

lol. this thread has turned into lots of :popcorn: cant help but laugh sometimes.

[Supraru]

i never once said my car can do that i dont have full bolt ons.

Then you should easily be low 14's then. Someone did a 14.1 compleley stock on YouTube. Thats what you guys seem to be going off.

On a serious side someone explain to me the difference between an 05-06 type-s and a new civic. They are the same car only the Rex is lighter by a tiny bit correct?

[evomike]

I am pretty sure the k20 in the SI has more aggressive cams or something of that nature, but that could have been comparing it to the earlier rsx.

[gotvtec?]

02-04 rsx-s k20a2 this motor is drive by cable
05-06 rsx-s k20z1 this made a little more power outta the 2 motors
06-08 civic si k20z3 a little more advanced and you can take the manifold of this motor and put it on any other k20 to make more power, also known as the rbc manifold.
09+ civic si is same as the 06-08 but supposely it has more aggressive cams

[Elliott18t]

wtf this thead is still going.

[MattBear]

i wish posts got deleted here like they do on the vortex....

[Asif22]

Then you should easily be low 14's then. Someone did a 14.1 compleley stock on YouTube. Thats what you guys seem to be going off.

On a serious side someone explain to me the difference between an 05-06 type-s and a new civic. They are the same car only the Rex is lighter by a tiny bit correct?

No, I saw that ...if its true or not I don't know. Some cars are freaks, some tracks are different. Average is anywhere from 14.6 -14.8 stock...bolt ons mid to high 13s are attainable

wtf this thead is still going.

You did start it.
i wish posts got deleted here like they do on the vortex....

like all the anti honda b/s ones?

Its cool if you don't like honda but no need to trash people who do. You like vw ? I like honda. its pretty easy

[Elliott18t]

I may have, but didnt expect people to continue on it many days after lol.

[Supraru]

I may have, but didnt expect people to continue on it many days after lol.

You clearly posted it in attempt to start something with the Honda guys. And as much as I hate hondas an si would take the vw in most categories. They are towards the bottom of the barrel to me.

[Elliott18t]

I posted it because a.) its an article about a car b.) while I may not like hondas, I can assure you that was not 100% the case as to why. c.) it was an article that doesnt completely bow down to the honda gods and pray to them, and if you actually read the article you would also notice its not bashing them the whole thing.


That said, I know for FACT that the SI is nothing special. Nor, have I yet, said anything about VWs so you HATERS can keep putting words in my mouth.

[gotvtec?]

That article is not accurate who ever wrote it obiviously has no clue about what he is talkin about

[Elliott18t]

how is it not accurate? I mean i didnt go and look up prices for everything he mentioned but everything else seemed pretty right on the dot.

[MattBear]

how is it not accurate? I mean i didnt go and look up prices for everything he mentioned but everything else seemed pretty right on the dot.

id concur

[Elliott18t]

also, maybe you should read a bit about him..

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/29/regrets-ive-had-a-few-jonny-lieberman-bids-farewell-to-autobl/#continued

[jpalamar]

People get too butthurt.

[gotvtec?]

He obiviously is talkin outta his ass, "hfp seats and hfp shift knob". There is none of that

[Elliott18t]

except HFP means honda factory perfomance so that could really be anything..

[jpalamar]

He obiviously is talkin outta his ass, "hfp seats and hfp shift knob". There is none of that

So they are the same as the non SI Civic then?

[Elliott18t]

also, if you didnt like that apparently well respected reviewer.. Here is another article that also doesnt like the HFP civic SI


http://www.sub5zero.com/road-tests/first-drive-2010-honda-civic-si-sedan-hfp-review

[Supraru]

also, if you didnt like that apparently well respected reviewer.. Here is another article that also doesnt like the HFP civic SI

http://www.sub5zero.com/road-tests/first-drive-2010-honda-civic-si-sedan-hfp-review

For someone who was surprised thar this thread was going on you're really doing your best to let the thread die.

[Elliott18t]

boredom at work = replies.

[jpalamar]

boredom at work = replies.

This is truth. Thats the only reason I post as much as I do too.

[BigWhiteTodd]

Its funny cause when this car came out in 06 it was **** now in 2010 its the same damn car when diff bumpers and wheels, As for the HFP there is no proformance about it just lip kit wheels other little **** over priced like the mugen was get over it not the best thing honda ever put out. Yes I am a honda owner its all the truth.

[gotvtec?]

Lol im at work too haha and the hfp civic si has the same interior as the normal si

[Elliott18t]

Lol im at work too haha and the hfp civic si has the same interior as the normal si

figured as much. Its still is obscenely expensive compared to what else is on the market with all the HFP parts lol. like todd said, its like the mugen si again.

[Fujito]

How are HFP parts expensive? $900 for a full painted lip kit is not bad at all. HFP wheels are $1500 or something, right? I think they look great.

My unpainted front lip alone cost more than the full HFP lip kit.

The Mugen is a different story.

[BigWhiteTodd]

How are HFP parts expensive? $900 for a full painted lip kit is not bad at all. HFP wheels are $1500 or something, right? I think they look great.

My unpainted front lip alone cost more than the full HFP lip kit.

The Mugen is a different story.

thats right cause the mugen was what 30 something new

[Asif22]

My friend got his HFP wheels brand new (17's) for 500 bucks for all 4. Like Fujito said the HFP lip kit is 900 bucks for the whole thing. It really isn't too bad. Mugen parts are way expensive for what they do.

The review is stupid. HFP seats and shift knob are not options and don't cost extra money. They are standard Si parts. The part about the car not being fast enough to use downforce? You don't have to be going 150mph to need downforce. Clearly the guy who wrote this has a gripe against the Si or he is just really stupid or both.

[Elliott18t]

I just built a sedan and it went from 22k to 28k with brakes the spoiler kit 18" wheels. the muffler and thats it. I didnt add any of the other stuff.

[Elliott18t]

it says right now. 358 front spoiler... 356 rear spoiler.. 604 for the side spoilers.. $2090 for the 18" hfp wheels...


im on the honda site.

[Fujito]

I had a Civic and I got the aero kit for $900.

[Elliott18t]

well maybe it went up in price? idk what the earlier prices where.

[Fujito]

But I don't know what your point is. These features are not mandatory. If you're too concerned about price then get the base model. The Evo X MR fully loaded is like $45,000. The base model GSR is $33,000. I got a model the interior sports package, SSS (spoiler, sound system, and HID lights), and 30GB navigation which made my GSR $38,000. You pay for the options. The aero kit for the Evo X is $2,000.

And then there's BMW. Start with a $40,000 car, add options, and end up with a $60,000 car.

[Elliott18t]

the review was about an SI with all these parts.. thats the point lol.

[Fujito]

I read it, but the review makes it sound like these things are a waste of money. That's an opinion, which is only relative to the buyer. If the prospect is simply interested in the best motor and really only N/A car on the market without any frills then they will get a base model Si coupe. If they want to be a little different or are concerned about looks then they will get HFP features. The HFP parts are not overpriced when you compare them to other aftermarket parts. Honda dealerships rarely have a Si in the lot, and if they do it most likely won't even have the HFP kit on it. I've never ever seen a Si on the lot with HFP wheels, let alone aero.

It's way too biased to be credible, and if you agree with everything written in there then you're just reinforcing the prejudices you already had. It's like when a die hard Republican watches Glenn Beck.

[Elliott18t]

i posted two articles, one a few posts back. I dont agree 100% with everything. But its nice to get reviews from every angle. Also, it looks like the autoblog, blogger was a well respected reviewer? he has moved on to motortrend and has done many others. The title of the thread may be asking for it but that was the title of the article. The man is known to push buttons apparently :P

[gotvtec?]

it says right now. 358 front spoiler... 356 rear spoiler.. 604 for the side spoilers.. $2090 for the 18" hfp wheels...


im on the honda site.

Yea obivously on hondas website go look on college hills and see how much it really is. Speaking about unnecessary models what about the feranheight gti and gli which ha no performance added parts but wheels and a special color and i see them go for 36k

[Elliott18t]

those are more limited edition than add on parts. Agreed on the stupid price though.

[gotvtec?]

Well so was the mugen you idiot which actually has better suspension than a regular civic si unlike the feranheight which only has wheels

[jpalamar]

Good or bad car doesn't matter... in the end it is an overpriced econo car.

[gotvtec?]

Yes it is palmar

[Elliott18t]

:roll:

[Asif22]

I lean more to some brands than others but if something is nice I will admit it. I don't even have an Si. I use to but now I have an s2000...I miss the car so much, and I am actually debating picking one up in the future...and I'm a very picky person. Its peppy stock, not stupid fast. With bolt ons it can be a quick little car and give some of the bigger boys a run for its money all without a turbo, being reliable, and handling well, and being really fun to drive. This review is giving an impression that the car is really slow but its not. It moves well for what it is. What does he expect out of a 20,000 dollar civic? Lets go test drive a prius and complain about speed, drive my s2000 and complain about space or drive a terminatior cobra and complain about gas milage. Some vw gti owners laugh and call it slow when it's acutally pulling the same exact 1/4 mile times as they are stock. I don't see why people compare the honda to much faster cars, it was never suppose to run with those. Everyone seems to benchmark their cars to the Si which I find quite hilarious. The civic has a big part in the import/tuner scene before all these newer cars came around....people figured out you can make a slower import beat a faster car pretty easily. Everyone was taking their old datsuns and making them quick. In the 90's so many people modded hondas and recently moved onto bigger and better things which is cool, but don't forget where some of you came from( not at anyone particular)This reminds me of the whole reason I ever got into Honda. They are constantly made fun of and under estimated, but in the right hands they can be great cars.

[Elliott18t]

IM not saying MY car is any faster or anything. I do see a lot of these SI owners thinking its a damn rocket ship though which it is not either. same can be said for vw.

[CleanNeon98]

Hondas are all slow.

[Asif22]

IM not saying MY car is any faster or anything. I do see a lot of these SI owners thinking its a damn rocket ship though which it is not either. same can be said for vw.

I agree completely, and I am not saying you said anything. I was just stating the general. Even I have ran into the cockiest of Si owners when I was driving my old Si. Basically complete tools who disrespect their own car. There is people like that everywhere. They are the modern day ricers.

[CleanNeon98]

Brand new gt's for 20k? Damn i missed out! Anyways u cant compare the si's to ms3's and v8s come on now i thought this thread was for si's being compared to gti's and ser's
You sure as **** can, they are priced similarly (at least the first gen MS3), and are in the same market...what makes the MS3 not a competitor when the GTI is..both are turbo FWD "souped up" econoboxes.

[gotvtec?]

But a civic is an econo box lets compare it to the prius and yaris's

[Supraru]

IM not saying MY car is any faster or anything. I do see a lot of these SI owners thinking its a damn rocket ship though which it is not either. same can be said for vw.

Funny because I've noticed more
Dubbers attempt to pick on me and fail. Usually civic owners know better and don't try to waste time.

[Elliott18t]

really? maybe because you live in 'vdub' world. Go to rt. 1 and see how many hondas will want to race you. Hell a mom in their minivan might too.

[gotvtec?]

Oddessy yo

[Elliott18t]

Oddessy yo

haha :supz:

[Supraru]

really? maybe because you live in 'vdub' world. Go to rt. 1 and see how many hondas will want to race you. Hell a mom in their minivan might too.

I've been that way. Never had a problem with Honda guys. It always seems to be on 76 or 422. Different guy everytime. They usually act cool and let their bypass valve off in my ear.