Sonic OC friendly?

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

History would say you're wrong.

Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state.13 FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. 14

You don't think that they increased the total number of officers, drug control, better technonloy, ect... helped with that decrease in crime? People having guns in the pocket wasn't the only thing that changed things.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

I don't think too many criminals are buying guns legally to comit the crime. Common sense would say to get out somewhere else. So your statistic is very deceptive. If DC, Cali, and NY inacted lose gun laws I guarentee it wouldn't hep their crime rates.

and here we see the problem...

How can you possibly "guarantee" this, with absolutely ZERO evidence to even base your opinion on? So far you have been dead wrong on every assumption you've made here so far, yet you just barrel on ahead insisting you can "guarantee" your ridiculous predictions. Maybe eventually you'll get the hint, but somehow, I doubt it.

So, let's take a look at what ACTUALLY happened, in one of the scenarios you posed that you can "guarantee" the outcome of...

Washington DC's (who has one of the highest violent crime rates in the entire US) total ban on handguns and laws that basically made armed self-defense illegal, even in your own home, were overturned last year by the supreme court, being ruled unconstitutional. So, suddenly, a crime infested city loosens it's decades old gun laws literally overnight. Of course, you assured us that it wouldn't help their crime rate, so let's take a look at what actually happened:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mber-since-64/

With just two days left in the year, according to preliminary numbers from the police department, the District has had 138 homicides compared with 184 at the same time last year, setting up the city to record the lowest number of homicides since 1964, when 132 were reported killed. Metropolitan Police Department officials attribute the decline to a "perfect storm" of crime-fighting strategies, including a new culture of communication within the police department.

"The level of involvement far surpasses anything I've ever seen," said Metropolitan Police Commander Daniel Hickson, a more than 30-year veteran of the department and former homicide detective. "To imagine we're at 138 is unbelievable."

...

The result this year has been a drop in violent crime and property crime. The sharpest drop was in homicides, at 25 percent, followed by a 16 percent decline in sexual assaults and a 10 percent decrease in car thefts.

whoops

[ASIAN JUL]

Don't know exact numbers, obviously but..

There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.

And depending on which study you read, it's estimated that about 25%-50 of American adults own guns. Estimated to be about 230,000,000 18+ US citizens. Estimated to be 90 guns per 100 people.

U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by SpEcRv9

IIRC there is about 800k law enforcement officers (including the 120k employed by the federal government) and 80 million gun owners.

Cool.

civilian: 80,000,000 with 2% error = 1,600,000
cops: 800,000 with 11% error = 88,000

1,522,000 more innocent people would be shot by civilians then by cops that could of been avoided.

I'm tired so my math might be off. I really don't care, I'm just argueing for the sake of argueing. Plus it is cool to learn new things.

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Cool.

civilian: 80,000,000 with 2% error = 1,600,000
cops: 800,000 with 11% error = 88,000

1,522,000 more innocent people would be shot by civilians then by cops that could of been avoided.

you're assuming every armed citizen and police officer has to use his gun? are you serious? really?

how about you look at actual statistics instead of making up your own....

[ASIAN JUL]

Jason, I don't care if you do or don't want to carry or own a firearm at all, but all I will say is if it ever boiled down to it and I needed to protect myself, I'd think my gun would help me defend myself a lot better than my fists or hoping they'll leave me alone would. And that is the reason that I will feel safer with a handgun. I, of course, as with everything else I believe or don't believe in, will not chastise or belittle you or anyone else for not wanting to own one. I don't own guns for the cool factor, I own them because I simply want to protect myself in the best way possible if the need should ever arise.

And considering I've had enough bad experiences with needing to protect myself, I wouldn't doubt that it might happen to me again at some point in life.

Carry on.

[1988 Olds]

A small part of me wants to open carry to this event just to see everyones reaction. FYI I'm also on PAFOA same name as on here.

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Cool.

civilian: 80,000,000 with 2% error = 1,600,000
cops: 800,000 with 11% error = 88,000

1,522,000 more innocent people would be shot by civilians then by cops that could of been avoided.

I'm tired so my math might be off. I really don't care, I'm just argueing for the sake of argueing. Plus it is cool to learn new things.

No, no.. there is a reason there are adjustments made when they do studies based on numbers. That's why you hear 1 in every x when they talk about studies. It's based on even comparisons... otherwise if you had 100 bananas and 200 oranges and each batch was 50% rotted, then you could say more oranges were bad than bananas, but obviously if one pool is bigger than the other, you'd have bigger numbers in the larger pool.

[~Brian~]

The way it was explained to me when I got my license was if you have the license to conceal, there is NO legit reason to open carry. OC is not against the law in PA, but people who are less informed of gun laws see the gun and tend to freak out .. so why take the chance? Utilize the license the state gave you and keep the gun under your shirt.

[3rdGenMr2Girl]

Originally Posted by PAFirefighter11

I don't agree:

hahah wow. i didn't know it was that bad. i guess i'm used to it? i wish i had my license to carry when i worked downtown.

[piku]

This thread is full of win. Two things I didn't realize:

1. How many of my peers have guns.
2. How many of my peers carry guns.

Now some people might get worried but I know the stats and I know that if everyone else knows that all you bitches have guns that everyone is safer in general and that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. CC, OC, do what you want.. just do it responsibly, be level headed and well trained.

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by omgjacki

I will be the first and loudest to state that I'm deathly afraid of these things so if you think it'll be okay to OC with thousands of people around, GTFO. I will make a big deal about it.

LAWL. how about you GTFO? if you're so scared of guns why don't you just stay home forever? just become a hermit and never leave the house. guns are everywhere. some of them are visible outside peoples' clothing. deal with it. it sounds like you and others here have some serious mental issues to deal with.

you also have a bit of learnin' to do as well. why doesn't anyone realize that one cannot take another person's weapon out of their holster? why is it so difficult to understand that having lots of people/kids around is NOT dangerous? i swear, some of you must actually think that guns jump out of their holsters... that they come to life like toy story or something.

Originally Posted by omgjacki

I have my reasons. Those of which do not concern you.

so they're none of anyone's concern, huh? okay. my gun carried openly is none of your concern either. mind your own business. if you see me or anyone else carrying, suck up those hoplophobic feelings and deal with them quietly. don't try to ruin someone else's day just because you have an issue with someone going about their business and obeying the law.

Originally Posted by 1988 Olds

A small part of me wants to open carry to this event just to see everyones reaction. FYI I'm also on PAFOA same name as on here.

i had no idea we had so many anti-gun pussies on this site. lol. i'll see you guys out there. i'll probably be OCing my M&P40C and enjoying some greasy sonic food (and would bet that no one will even take notice lol).

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by piku

This thread is full of win. Two things I didn't realize:

1. How many of my peers have guns.
2. How many of my peers carry guns.

Now some people might get worried but I know the stats and I know that if everyone else knows that all you bitches have guns that everyone is safer in general and that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. CC, OC, do what you want.. just do it responsibly, be level headed and well trained.

that's what's funny. people don't realize how many other people around them are carrying. guns are a normal part of life for many people here in PA.

[piku]

But now that I think about it, ALL of my close friends have one or more guns. I just haven't been paying attention I guess.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by ~Brian~

The way it was explained to me when I got my license was if you have the license to conceal, there is NO legit reason to open carry. OC is not against the law in PA, but people who are less informed of gun laws see the gun and tend to freak out .. so why take the chance? Utilize the license the state gave you and keep the gun under your shirt.

Actually there are quite a few legitimate reasons why people choose to OC. One being the political and informative aspect, one being comfort, one being the ability to get to your weapon more quickly, and one being the concept that bad guys don't commit crimes where there are visibly armed people.

All or any of the above reasons is perfectly valid justification. Of course, the only real justification one needs when participating in a lawful behavior is simply that "they can". Unfortunately some people feel it is their right to insist on justification from people doing things they don't like.

When gun owners turn on each other over personal carry preferences is when we've all lost. We are not hunters, sportsmen, gun nuts, OCrs, CCrs, etc... we are gun owners and we need to stick together. What ever happened to the concept of "live and let live"?

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by piku

But now that I think about it, ALL of my close friends have one or more guns. I just haven't been paying attention I guess.

that's one of the things i really do enjoy about CC. only a handful of my friends even know that i carry or own a gun at all. it's hilarious actually. i was once in an argument with some uneducated ditzy girl about guns. she SWORE that everyone who owned/carried guns was a psycho and so unstable that they would shoot someone instantly if they every got into a heated argument. i was laughing my ass off the whole time, especially after she said i seemed like a real nice down to earth guy. she had no idea i had a gun with me and i loved every second of it.

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by ~Brian~

The way it was explained to me when I got my license was if you have the license to conceal, there is NO legit reason to open carry. OC is not against the law in PA, but people who are less informed of gun laws see the gun and tend to freak out .. so why take the chance? Utilize the license the state gave you and keep the gun under your shirt.

ignore everything you were told when you got your LTCF. seriously, forget all of it. unfortunately you were influenced by an anti gun sheriff who took it upon himself to try to sway you a certain direction based on nothing but his own opinion. it's just some anti gun/anti OC a-hole spreading ridiculous information. read PAFOA.org and then form your own opinion and method of carry.

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by DC2.2GSR

so they're none of anyone's concern, huh? okay. my gun carried openly is none of your concern either. mind your own business. if you see me or anyone else carrying, suck up those hoplophobic feelings and deal with them quietly. don't try to ruin someone else's day just because you have an issue with someone going about their business and obeying the law.

you just said hoplophobic.... you sir, are now my hero.

[Drftpretty]

Originally Posted by DPancoast

not sure why you would ask though. I mean yes, you are being considerate, and the discussion is good in here, but why tell everyone you're going to have your gun on you?

Again, I was not asking, I was just making sure that people were aware if Sonic had a policy in place. I did not want Sonic to call the police or potentially cause a problem that would prevent us from returning next year. I didn't expect there to be such an outpouring of anti-gun ignorance. As I stated before, I will be CCing, I personally do not feel the need to OC unless like stated, on my bike.

I was not trying to flaunt anything or look "Badass." I was actually trying to bring it to the attention of anyone who possibly did not really think about what might result from someone who regularly OC's doing so at the show.

Originally Posted by Oakes

Hi Dave!

Keep arguing everyone, I like seeing the points made, I'm dead serious.

I'm still buying a gun, so I'm with the OP and his friends.

There is no need for anyone to feel intimidated by such harsh anti gun feelings here or anywhere else for that matter. If you are comfortable with guns and skilled in their use then why not exercise your right to carry one legally? If you don't thats also 100% cool. But don't expect those who do carry to be forced to change their normal LEGAL routine so that you feel safer. Our rights to OC are just as God given as your right to voice your dislike of it. No need to "beat anyones ass" or call the police. If someone is brandishing their firearm then you would have the right to "Beat their ass" or call the police. But in such a case where someone was brandishing a firearm they would become the target of everyone at the show who WAS legally carrying a concealed firearm or openly carrying a firearm. I bet then all of the anti-gun morons in here would be glad that people like myself, rodder, DC2, firefighter, and Jul were there exercising our rights and could protect them. People fail to look at the argument like that though.

Ask Willdue, he'll tell you. Anytime Im at his shop Ill unload my firearm and lay it on his work bench with the mag in my pocket. Responsible gun owners are an asset to the community. Not something to be feared and made to feel like a "Gun nut." It's always on my person or within reach. The is apart of being a responsible gun owner.

Maybe I shouldnt have said anything and just let the show turn into a **** storm like the Jeep show I was at.

For good measure, Heres my gf with my 1911 practicing her stance with a unloaded full-size. She too was scared of guns until I took her to the range and she was educated. She now enjoys shooting and goes with me weekly! I even bought her a gun of her own! : )





I love her!

I am really enjoying readding this discussion however!

S/N List
1911forum.com <-- Spanish Fly 1911
PAFOA <-- Zet70
Hipointforums <-- LTCF Holder

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by Drftpretty

Again, I was not asking, I was just making sure that people were aware if Sonic had a policy in place. I did not want Sonic to call the police or potentially cause a problem that would prevent us from returning next year. I didn't expect there to be such an outpouring of anti-gun ignorance. As I stated before, I will be CCing, I personally do not feel the need to OC unless like stated, on my bike.

I was not trying to flaunt anything or look "Badass." I was actually trying to bring it to the attention of anyone who possibly did not really think about the show which might result from someone who regularly OC's doing so at the show.



There is no need for anyone to feel intimidated by such harsh anti gun feelings here or anywhere else for that matter. If you are comfortable with guns and skilled in their use then why not exercise your right to carry one legally? If you don't thats also 100% cool. But don't expect those who do carry to be forced to change their normal LEGAL routine so that you feel safer. Our rights to OC are just as God given as your right to voice your dislike of it. No need to "beat anyones ass" or call the police. If someone is brandishing their firearm then you would have the right to "Beat their ass" or call the police. But in such a case where someone was brandishing a firearm they would become the target of everyone at the show who WAS legally carrying a concealed firearm or openly carrying a firearm. I bet then all of the anti-gun morons in here would be glad that people like myself, rodder, DC2, firefighter, and Jul were there exercising our rights and could protect them. People fail to look at the argument like that though.

Ask Willdue, he'll tell you. Anytime Im at his shop Ill unload my firearm and lay it on his work bench with the mag in my pocket. Responsible gun owners are an asset to the community. Not something to be feared and made to feel like a "Gun nut." It's always on my person or within reach. The is apart of being a responsible gun owner.

Maybe I shouldnt have said anything and just let the show turn into a **** storm like the Jeep show I was at.

For good measure, Heres my gf with my 1911 practicing her stance with a unloaded full-size. She too was scared of guns until I took her to the range and she was educated. She now enjoys shooting and goes with me weekly! I even bought her a gun of her own! : )





I love her!

our women need to hang out... sign her up for the FIRST program im putting my girl in!