Sonic OC friendly?

[jeffroevoix]

Bring extra clips

I hear Morgantown is dangerous

[rodder]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

That very well may happen in my lifetime, but I'm not paranoid either.

So you admit there may come a time in your life where a gun would be useful, but purposefully don't carry one and just hope for the best? That's not being NOT paranoid, that's called being unprepared. Besides wearing my seatbelt, I also keep a fire extinguisher in my car. Is that paranoid too? I don't expect to ever have to use it, but if I do I sure will be glad I had it. EXACT same concept with carrying a firearm for personal protection.

Originally Posted by jpalamar

People that worried about stuff are the ones that usually fire out of panic and cause more damage then harm.

Please post ONE single example of this. I'll save you a lot of time - it doesn't exist. Basing opinions on "what-ifs" that just simply do not happen in reality is kind of a backwards way to formulate an opinion.

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Until someone has been trained, and even then there is no guarentee they will know what to do when the time comes. Huge difference between being in a controled range then when panic, adrenline, and an instant to react takes place.

Of course this is true, however, I challenge you to find an instance where a lawfully armed citizen did more harm than good. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of those who choose to carry weapons every day are better trained and practice more regularly than the average police officer. A report was recently released demonstrating that police officers are actually SAFER in areas where more private citizens carry weapons. Another fact: private citizens have a better "hit percentage" than police officers when involved in shootings.

Why you are perfectly OK with police officers, many of whom only fire a gun twice a year for qualification, carrying weapons openly while insisting the rest of the population is too careless or incompetent to do so flies in the face of the "all men are created equal" idea that our entire society is premised on.

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

See my resonse in this.

Seatbelts are required by law so how does that compare?

it really doesn't compare, one is required by law, and the other is PROTECTED by the constitution.

and as for "people worried about stuff are the ones that fire out of panic"

yea, they're called cops, and they mistakenly shoot more people than people that CC or OC.

I can't add anything that hasn't been said in this thread...you clearly have personal issues with others carrying weapons..

[rodder]

for further clarification:

magazines:


clips:

[3rdGenMr2Girl]

i love my new gun. just saying

[PAFirefighter11]

Originally Posted by twastheglow

I find this thread incredibly intriguing. I have, for the last couple years, strongly considered getting my handgun permit (which in NYS you have to have). Unlike PA (at least based on how it sounds), it's much more ****ing difficult to get one. Not only is there a background check but I also need to provide references, whom of which have a handgun permit.

You can OC without a license in PA. When I filled out my application I did need 2 references, preferably in the same county, but they didn't need to have a LTCF. I even used someone from another county.

I AM NOT A LAWYER!

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by cmr076

i dont think anyone will be bringing "clips" that would be awkward to carry...

Originally Posted by rodder

for further clarification:

magazines:


clips:

haha thank you!

[ASIAN JUL]

Ugh, I could start throwing up statistics but I don't feel like it. I am just gonna say for anyone who thinks handguns in and of themselves are dangerous, just do some research. It's fact that the states that have loose gun control have lower crime rates than those who have extreme gun control like D.C., California and New York. Our own Bureau of Justice states that handguns are the safest means of self-defense.

I understand that not everyone may be comfortable around guns but I also think even if you don't want anything to do with them, you should at least consider the fact that people have the right to protect themselves and can do so responsibly. guncite.com is a good source to read about stuff like this.

That said, I don't think this thread will go anywhere and no one's going to change their mind about anything just because of this thread so I'm probably beating a dead horse by now.

[PAFirefighter11]

Originally Posted by jeffroevoix

Bring extra clips

I hear Morgantown is dangerous

Hmm, let's see here. Car/bike crowd, with one of the more dangerous cities in PA only a couple miles away (Reading) can always create issues. I doubt anything would happen, but there is always a possibility.

[3rdGenMr2Girl]

i grew up in reading. it's really not that terrible.

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by SpEcRv9

yea, they're called cops, and they mistakenly shoot more people than people that CC or OC.

I def agree that cops do hit alot of innocent people but at the same time I can guarentee they would have a lower mistake rate then random people with gun permits in the same situation though. Thats my best educated guess though.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by PAFirefighter11

You can OC without a license in PA. When I filled out my application I did need 2 references, preferably in the same county, but they didn't need to have a LTCF. I even used someone from another county.

I AM NOT A LAWYER!

Well, I am not at all familiar with PA laws and only slightly familiar with NY laws. I do know however that in NY state it's governed by the county...that I have put down a non-refundable deposit on a handgun before I can even apply and that I must provide references with whom DO have handgun permits (I can't remember how many)...as well as submit to a background check. I'm sure there's a bit more to it, but that's all I know off the top of my head...and that's just to legally own a handgun. I also know it's quite difficult to get a permit to carry.

[DPancoast]

guess I should bolt my chain gun to the MR2 in case you OCers try anything funny

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

I def agree that cops do hit alot of innocent people but at the same time I can guarentee they would have a lower mistake rate then random people with gun permits in the same situation though. Thats my best educated guess though.

For lack of motivation to type this myself..

Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."7

7George F. Will, "Are We 'a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek (15 November 1993):93.
8Id. at 164, 185.

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

Ugh, I could start throwing up statistics but I don't feel like it. I am just gonna say for anyone who thinks handguns in and of themselves are dangerous, just do some research. It's fact that the states that have loose gun control have lower crime rates than those who have extreme gun control like D.C., California and New York. Our own Bureau of Justice states that handguns are the safest means of self-defense.

I don't think too many criminals are buying guns legally to comit the crime. Common sense would say to get out somewhere else. So your statistic is very deceptive. If DC, Cali, and NY inacted lose gun laws I guarentee it wouldn't hep their crime rates.

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

I don't think too many criminals are buying guns legally to comit the crime. Common sense would say to get out somewhere else. So your statistic is very deceptive. If DC, Cali, and NY inacted lose gun laws I guarentee it wouldn't hep their crime rates.

States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%;10 and

Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state.13 FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. 14

History would say you're wrong.

[PAFirefighter11]

Originally Posted by 3rdGenMr2Girl

i grew up in reading. it's really not that terrible.

I don't agree:

RANKINGS BY POPULATION GROUP

OVERALL MOST DANGEROUS 25 CITIES IN THE US:

1 St. Louis, MO

2 Detroit, MI

3 Flint, MI

4 Compton, CA

5 Camden, NJ

6 Birmingham, AL

7 Cleveland, OH

8 Oakland, CA

Skipping ahead...

21 Reading, PA

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."7

7George F. Will, "Are We 'a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek (15 November 1993):93.
8Id. at 164, 185.

That is almost a 20 year old study. Thats like saying that the odds of surviving cancer 20 years ago are the same as today... Very cool read though but I see stats that are so biast all the time it is hard to find just raw numbers. And that is a percent. If written in total numbers it would show Civilians shoot more I'm sore. How many cops are there VS total people with guns? I also can't belive that 1 in 10 people cops shot is a mistake, because then cops would be constantly getting fired and there would be crazy job openings Can you tell I'm really bored at work today?!!?

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

How many cops are there VS total people with guns?

IIRC there is about 800k law enforcement officers (including the 120k employed by the federal government) and 80 million gun owners.

[tranceporter]