What I dislike most about domestics...

[Aaron]

I'm going to try to give this a topic, I don't really care if you don't like domestics because the drivers are freaks, or some other personal attacks. I think what triggered this was a recent encounter with a 'new' mustang.

I think they all look 'ok' but I'm sick of the lack of originality. It seems like we can't find a car thats unique in the states anymore, and if we do, we have to name it after a classic in hopes of it boosting the sales numbers.

Lets go through the list. In no particular order:
Ford Thunderbird: Its really no more than a lincoln ls. First year they're out, you can't touch them. They were actually selling for 10k over sticker. What did ford do? Touch up an old body that people had heart strings for, give it the same name, and use existing crap laying around the factory.
Ford Mustang: Same 'look' as the early 70's Mustang. That fastback styling best year for the Mustang by far, why not profit off it with exploiting old ideas. What did you get? A car slower than the previous style, no more nice pipes out the back, half the sound, and 4 pretty headlights... Just like Shelby used to do.
Pontiac GTO: Wheres the Le Mans? We skipped selling the GTO as an option. We learned from the past that the GTO made the car what it was, not the Le Mans. Why sell a Le Mans GTO when people only want the GTO. Good idea, we have a name that will sell, but what can we put it on? Well, in my opinion, they put it on a cavalier on steriods.
Chevrolet Impala SS: The Impala by itself wasn't a sports car by any stretch of the imagination. They made the SS package and bingo, four speed, big block, and lsd. They tried again in the mid 90's with a decent attempt of throwing a corvette motor and LSD into a caprice (I'm biased here) but the new one is just crap. Theres nothing special about the car. Its a ripped off idea of a mid 90's car with a late 60's name.
Ford GT40: Sweet car, yes. However, its sad to me that Fords Modern supercar is no more than an old looking body with the identical name. Again, people looked back on what they could have bought back and the day that would have been worth so much money and think: If only the opportunity presented itself again. Well ta-da! Very familiar looking and even named the same. Don't miss out twice, I guess.
Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS: This wasn't really a hit back in the day. However, Chevy did put a 'little' guts into the 80's style. Again, people think: "that was a nice car, why didn't I buy one of those new?" Again, ta-da! Here's a new boxy car that we slapped badges on. Oh btw sorry, we forgot to put some motor into and couldn't find any other wheels so we bolted on some of those mid-90's Impala wannabe's on that we had lying around the factory.
Chevy SSR: Congrads! A new name. Again, its an old looking car. You wanted to do something like it yourself but you've hit your midlife crisis and missed out on all the time to build your own. Don't worry, Chevy has catered to you.

No hard feelings to anybody here. I don't hate these cars or anything, I'm just saddened that any decent car left in the country is exploiting the past and lacking originality.

[Chair-Force]

Ford Thunderbird:
Ford Mustang: Not a bad overall design. Too bad GT's are slow to roll out of the plant and the dealers are still charging a couple grand over the msrp.
Pontiac GTO: Looks are okay at best. LS2 =
Chevrolet Impala SS:
Ford GT40: Why pay that kind of dough for a repro when I could buy a Porsche/Ferrari.
Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS: Optional mullet?
Chevy SSR: A guy in my wing has one. Its so fugly and slow.

[MuddyREX]

I think the lack of originality has killed the American automobile industry. Not enough exciting cars, and way too many SUVs.

[9 Ball]

What the F@#! happened to the Impala? I thought the ‘90s SS Impala was pretty cool, but GM has lost me on this latest incarnation.

And I’m totally lost on the new design of the Monte Carlo. There’s nothing sleek, sexy, or muscular about the car (this is my own humble opinion.)

It usually takes some time for people to get used to a new design (i.e. 300ZX to 350Z, second gen Prelude to third gen, old Eclipse to new Eclipse) but so far, I have not warmed up to the new Mustang (and I’ve seen plenty of them at this point in time.) Design wise, the body of the car hasn’t evolved. You always want to improve upon a previous design, always push forward, always evolve. However, the “new” design hasn’t taken us anywhere, except to remind us about the past. And as for the retro gauge cluster…

Every other car maker is trying to design automobiles with 21st century looks, performance and technology. Check out any auto show and it feels like the 21st century. But I’m not sure about the new Mustang GT… it doesn’t seem to define what decade you’re in.

Hopefully, the new Mustang GT500 will look killer when it comes out, because the previous Cobra was sick as hell on the streets (and still is!)

[olmytsi]

What can i say? This goes for the automobile industry worldwide: After 100 years of makin cars, its hard to come up with something new that isnt ugly since all the good looking shapes/designs have already been explored.

Basically as far as im concerned, from 2001 on, not many new cars have dropped my jaw or caught my attention.

Now for the usa: I dont consider the gto a new car since the Australians have had it for a while now under another name and i like its looks alot. The new mustang is ugly and they didnt bring back the 5 liter like they promised. They got rid of the firebird and camaro which were nice desirable cars. The magnum is ok. The 300c looks good. The charger is ugly. Their attempt to bring small cars like the aveo is just a flop. They had a few cars that were just unique like the afore mentioned impala ss which has become another lame sedan. The monte carlo ss was sort of fast but now its just ugly and only has a v6. The hummer went from a badass truck evryone respected/wanted to the new h3 which is just pointless.
I can go on for hours but i think thats enough.

ps: i foresee a great thread as long as evryone just states their opinion and evryone else repects it. ;)

[79Poncho]

Being a domestic owner I feel compelled to respond to this thread. One thing to keep in mind through all of this is the majority of car consumers: Baby Boomers. This majority likes to hear about their past, thus the re-used names. This majority likes a smooth, comfortable ride, thus you get a Malibu or Impala. The result: Young consumers (who's percentage is on the rise I would think) gets a selection of cars which show no individuality and we end up buying cars and changing them. This community is a prime example of that, not many of us can afford truly expensive (and thus unique) cars, therefore we resort to buying cars we can afford and doing what we can to make them our own. Take the Blue WRX's (STis) on this board, these owners all bought these cars for their looks, power and performance and to an extent to be unique.. however as we all know, there are plenty of them. Here is where I come in. I would rather buy an older car (not in too bad a shape) for a few hundred maybe even a thousand or more dollars and I will fix it up to be a daily driver. I have something that I can learn from, experience myself with, and ultimately enjoy for its uniqueness in today's world. Not many people have a car as old as mine for a daily driver and I realize that is because most are broken or fully restored trailer queens but it still makes it unique. I will continue to do this for it doesn't cost too much to do, certainly not as much as a new car of the same performance. I know I might catch flak for this but I like the older cars, they are unique just as building up a car like Criz's or Trolls or any of the other people on this board. This is the age of customizing cars, no manufacturer offers enough options to make a car truly unique anymore (xB is close but not many people have that sort of taste).
What is the solution? I doubt there is one until our generation is in control of the automotive manufacturers, so I suppose we'll have to keep doing what we're doing by making things our own on our own.
---Off the Soap Box---- Who's next?
:D

[Smokescreen]

Mustang-
-Saleen's Mustang is only .01 faster than the GT. They needed to make it faster to justify the price.
-6 month waiting list for the GTs.
-Dealers inflating the Shelby's price. Front end looks like a V6 and not a V8.

Impala-
Only one I like is the 62' 409. Sleeper.

Dodge Charger-
You forgot this one. I don't like a 4-door Charger. The front end looks like a Magnum or is that part of Dodge's design- To make all of their cars have the same front end? Probably has the same long wait as the Ford for the Hemi and of course, they have to have 5 different models. Autostick until the Daytona R/T.

(edit)

Originally Posted by 79Poncho

Take the Blue WRX's (STi) on this board, these owners all bought these cars for their looks, power and performance and to an extent to be unique.. however as we all know, there are plenty of them.

I saw so many silver and blue ones, I got black and drove 2 hours for my attempt at being unique. I think the wrx's "cult" following has something to do with the WR blue color and silver is always popular.

Originally Posted by 79Poncho

Here is where I come in. I would rather buy an older car (not in too bad a shape) for a few hundred maybe even a thousand or more dollars and I will fix it up to be a daily driver. I have something that I can learn from, experience myself with, and ultimately enjoy for its uniqueness in today's world.

I agree, but I can't find a 67'-69' Charger, Camaro, Chevelle SS or a 69' 442 as easily as a SRT4, WRX (STi), EVO, DSM, etc., so we make do and settle for something everyone has. And if I do find a car like those mentioned, they are either auto or the owners want huge amounts of money for them. Mmm...41' Ford coupe..

Originally Posted by 79Poncho

What is the solution? I doubt there is one until our generation is in control of the automotive manufacturers, so I suppose we'll have to keep doing what we're doing by making things our own on our own.

True. Car manufactures are trying to cater to the taste of what they think the next big thing is and false information like 2 very infamous movies are projecting this kind of image. Notice the increase in euro tail lights on cars? They figure since "tuners" are doing it, it must be cool and will increase sales, but are just adding to the problem that not everything looks wearing Euros. Example- euro tails on a Altima = good. Euros on a EVO = nasty.(/edit)

[HickRocket1258]

I'd have to say I like a lot of those cars. Especially the Impala SS pulling off 14's in the 1/4 is pretty impressive for a boat like that. I like the Monte Carlo SS. Most of those cars I like a lot, of course me being a domestic fan, but the one car I might have a problem with is the SSR.

[97TSi]

I think there's a good number of choices out there as far as cars go to fit every personality. Granted, most of us don't always have the money to acquire said car

Personally, I'm almost 100% into performance. I don't care too too much about looks. Granted, I think a 2gb talon is dead seeexy But the majority of DSMers are strictly performance so the car just fits me. I also love the "sleeperness" of DSMs. You can't tell the difference between a 200hp DSM and a 700hp DSM. I love it when people turn down a race cuz they're scared of what MIGHT be under the hood
BUT, one of my dream cars is a 69' Chevelle.

As far as the latest domestics go. I think they're all hideous. Except for the C6 and the 300C SRT-8. The Mustang looks like it's got down syndrome w/the slope above the headlights. The rear-end just irks me, however, I think a 69 fastback is ****ing gorgeous. The magnum and charger are just fugly as well.

[sisforsurfing]

I will admit to liking the new Mustangs a little bit, of course the Ford GT (I disagree about the Porsche/Ferrari comparo... I think the car's stunning, even if I'd prefer a 911 Turbo).

But am I the only person who doesn't really like the 300? I find it unnattractive, too brick-like and I HATE the grille.. Just my opinion though.

The Thunderbird, Impala SS, and Monte Carlo SS are all cars I have no emotional attatchment to whatsoever. If they ceased production, I wouldn't care much, or at all. The Pontiac GXP is little better, even if it packs 303 HP. The designs are just uninspired.

[Intercooled T]

Aaron, can your car beat half those cars from a dig or rolling start? you've probably never driven one of those cars in your list.

While GM does lack some things with those cars, the majority of them were created to save GMs reputation and put them back on their feet with the foreign market.

Don't hate the domestics because you find it difficult to like 'em

The monte & impala SS's have badass motors, so does the SSR if optioned right. Even the thunderbird motor packs punch, but you've probably never driven one or know what its like to ride fast and comfortable.

And its not to 'exploit the past' as you put it, its to BOOST SALES

[Aaron]

Thats a good point too. I probably don't own anything that could touch half these cars, much less put up a fight. Everybody knows you can't drive them because the dealers are tight fisted and surely they're all babied by the owners. No way I'm going to have somebody say "here, try my gt40, lemme know what you think." That part you're probably right on. Once I get a decent turbo car it will be a different story though. Granted, it still won't be "fast and comfortable."

Where you're wrong though is that I don't hate these cars. I'm bitter. I'm not impressed. My fat azz can't fit into the SSR, GT40, or Thunderbird comfortably. I'm not humored with the new Hemi. What was the hp rating on the old hemi vs. the new hemi? Right. It sells cars though. Now trucks.

[MuddyREX]

I really didn't want to type all this.

GM is doing OK. The Cobalt is a step in the right direction, and companies like Saturn will always have loyal customers. The GTO is not an american car, it's a rebadged Australian car. To revive an American muscle car icon like that is sacreligious. The Corvette is and always has been a desireable automobile. Pontiac has nothing I would drive. Buick......eh. Caddilac has at least set itself apart from the sea of sameness with their new styling. And there are always trucks and SUVs to keep GM moving.

Ford needs a lot of work. They make great trucks, big deal. While the Ford GT is awesome, it isn't attainable for the average american. The Ford Mustang is OK for the masses, but the styling is growing old fast. I'm waiting for the Cobra. Focus....eh. Ford 500....eh. I can't even think of anything else Ford makes....how sad is that? Mercury?? Lincoln?? Anything of note?? Nothing.

The Charger and Magnum are awesome cars that Dodge needed to get itself back in the game. The SRT is a hell of a performance value, but it's getting replaced with an SUV of sorts. I love the 300C, but I don't know if OntheWingsOfCrossfire will let me say it's American made since Chrysler is owned my Mercedes now. I think that Dodge has done an outstanding job of reviving some excitement in it's automobile line. With the hype of the Hemi, and some uniquely styles cars (Magnum, 300C, Charger) they have come a long way from 5 years ago.

I don't know.

I think that American automobile manuacturers rely to heavily on trucks and SUVs. We need more good American cars to compete with the imports. I would love to be able to buy an American made car that I would be proud to drive, but right now there is nothing I would want to drive.

[G1GSX]

what annoys me is people wasting space on complaining about cars they dont like if you dont like them dont buy them simple as that

[MuddyREX]

Originally Posted by G1GSX

what annoys me is people wasting space on complaining about cars they dont like if you dont like them dont buy them simple as that

I agree. I'm done with this thread.

[Aaron]

"General Car Related Chat"

[04 Turbo Spec]

well thats y i bought a spec-v
u don't see them that much and onone has the exact car i do

[Twin_Cam]

Don't forget Saturns. After 1995, they went to crap. Then once the S series was axed, they had nothing. The L series was incredibly ugly and unreliable. The Vue is nothing more than an econocar with a tall body (a boring one, at that). And the Ion is just ugly. I'm sorry Ion owners, but I just can't get past the looks. The motor is nice though. With the exception of the Ion Redline, the new Saturn lineup is the punchline of every joke about cars.

And who do we have to thank for killing the best-run domestic car brand in the early '90s? GM. Curse you and all you stand for GM. May you die an awful and bloody death at the hand of Toyota and Honda. What goes around comes around bishes

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by Aaron

Pontiac GTO: ........ Well, in my opinion, they put it on a cavalier on steriods.

Hey now........

[kef]

as far as styling there isn't much that made me instantly crap my pants, or sport wood. However, in this months EVO magazine the new Morgan Aero 8, which is clearly a retro design, with some very good technology integrated seamlessly into it.

slighty off topic, what the HELL was BMW thinking... they put a awesome 3.5L TT Diesel motor in the 5 series (which is cool) and make it so fawking ugly...