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Old 12-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #1
TROLL
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Differences between Bosch and Denso style injectors?

So I know that Bosch and Denso style injectors fit differently, but internally or performance-wise are they any different?

The recommended injectors for the changes I'm making on my Supra are Precision 120lb domestic-style injectors which work with most of the aftermarket fuel rails available. These are Bosch style injectors.

However, I was looking to use a HKS fuel rail that I have here (so long as it will not compromise anything), and these only work with Denso style injectors. Precision does make a Denso style 1200cc injector which should also work for my needs and fit the HKS fuel rail.

I can go with either and will use the proper fuel rail to correspond with it, but I haven't been able to find any info on the differences between these injectors besides fuel rail fitment. Does anyone know?

Denso:


Bosch:
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Last edited by TROLL; 12-14-2011 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:14 PM   #2
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It mostly have to with with the way it sprays, I will try and explain it better later. If your looking into different styles for the Supra my opinion has always been Denso works better on imports. The Bosch will also use a true o-ring at the bottom of the injector whereas the Denso use more of a rubber seal.

Random question have you looked into Injector Dynamics ? There are two local speed shops that will only use them and I feel it's for good reason. Also a little excerpt from turbo magazine, "To get more injector choices, collars are machined and inserted into the injector bosses. Usually an O-ring would be used here to seal between the boss and the collar, but to prevent leak under high boost, Naoto chose to weld them instead."

Read more: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/tu...#ixzz1gZMlKdxm

Hope that helps somewhat I know it's not explained very clearly.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:51 PM   #3
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I've been talking to Sound Performance quite a bit lately since I just bought my ProEFI from them and they will be loading the base map as well as possibly doing the tuning on the car. They have set up a lot of ProEFIs with fuel systems for E85 and they recommended the Precision 120 lb. injectors. When I asked about the HKS fuel rail fitment they said I could use the Precision 1200cc injectors instead. I'll quiz them more about that but it made me curious about Denso vs. Bosch style injectors so I figured I'd post here to see if I could understand them better.

Thanks for the info, I know everyone has their preference and I have heard of the IDs, but not as commonly on Supras. I've also heard that certain Fuel Injector Clinic injectors are very good, but not for my injector size requirements. (I'm currently running FIC 750cc, by the way).
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:34 AM   #4
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I'd go with the precision domestic style injectors. I purchased the same set of 120lb's from SP. I think we're pretty much around the same power goals Bryan, and the domestic injectors in my opinion offer a lot more options in terms of fuel rails, etc. If they don't fit the HKS rail, you can snag a quality -8 rail for like $200 all day long. I purchased a polished rail from Mike Nunez for that and the quality is very nice!
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:50 AM   #5
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The difference has to do with spray atomization, I think. Sometimes it's easiest to see what other Supra users are using and what has been effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwillboost View Post

Random question have you looked into Injector Dynamics ? There are two local speed shops that will only use them and I feel it's for good reason. Also a little excerpt from turbo magazine, "To get more injector choices, collars are machined and inserted into the injector bosses. Usually an O-ring would be used here to seal between the boss and the collar, but to prevent leak under high boost, Naoto chose to weld them instead."

Read more: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/tu...#ixzz1gZMlKdxm

Hope that helps somewhat I know it's not explained very clearly.
I use IDs and they are amazing in my car, but not so in all cars. My friend has an Evo 8 and he didn't like them. I forget why now but there was some sort of issue. It may have been with fitment?

Either way, if the main names being thrown around in the Supra world are Precision and Denso, then they are probably both good for your car. I would just see if you could find specific info on the spray patterns of each specific injector. Youtube sometimes has demonstrations.
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:50 AM   #6
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I have used several injectors (Bosch 1680's, RC Injectors, Ect...), and Injector Dynamics has been the best so far. The guy that makes them, I know personally and his attention to detail is very superior, which in turn makes for an outstanding product.

This video is what sold me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX1xIvOWcNk
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:00 AM   #7
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My friend has an Evo 8 and he didn't like them. I forget why now but there was some sort of issue. It may have been with fitment?
There are several adaptors to suit different fuel rails. However, height needs to be factored in as well.

For the Sard fuel rail I have, I had to mill out two extra holes and then moon cut the standoffs to make it all fit since I added two extra injectors. Then I had to get bigger viton o-rings. So making them fit can be difficult, but it was worth it.

From what I have seen lately and my travels, ID's are now the new industry standard. And if that does not move you, then maybe saying that Shane Tecklenburg (hands down the best tuner in the world) recommends them.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
There are several adaptors to suit different fuel rails. However, height needs to be factored in as well.

For the Sard fuel rail I have, I had to mill out two extra holes and then moon cut the standoffs to make it all fit since I added two extra injectors. Then I had to get bigger viton o-rings. So making them fit can be difficult, but it was worth it.

From what I have seen lately and my travels, ID's are now the new industry standard. And if that does not move you, then maybe saying that Shane Tecklenburg (hands down the best tuner in the world) recommends them.
Yeah, I think his problem may have been with the o-rings. That sounds vaguely familiar. I can't remember which fuel rail he has. I think he switched his IDs out to Precisions, though.

I know IDs are getting huge in the Honda world, at least for us 8thgeners. Nice to see they are expanding. No need to convince me, though, they are already in my car
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TROLL View Post
The recommended injectors for the changes I'm making on my Supra are Precision 120lb domestic-style injectors which work with most of the aftermarket fuel rails available. These are Bosch style injectors.

However, I was looking to use a HKS fuel rail that I have here (so long as it will not compromise anything), and these only work with Denso style injectors. Precision does make a Denso style 1200cc injector which should also work for my needs and fit the HKS fuel rail.
How close to the edge will you be running these injectors and will it make a difference in tuning for you with the two different flow rates? 120 lb/hr and 1200cc/min injectors are actually two slightly different flow rates. 120 lb/hr injectors are actually closer to 1300cc/min injectors than 1200 cc/min injectors. 1200cc/min injectors are actually 114 lb/hr injectors.

Also, what power level are you aiming for? Going with too big of an injector has a negative effect in idle and low speed driveability. Six 120 lb/hr injectors should be good for 900 HP if you don't go want to go above 80% duty cycle. At 85% duty cycle they are good for 950+ HP.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:05 AM   #10
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He's right, the precision 120lb injectors are closer to 1300's and SP, who recommended them to you, has made over 800rwhp on these with e85. Brian, you mentioned that you will probably be running e85 so in my opinion you will not have any issues with idle or low speed driveability. I have the same injectors running with my map ecu 2/e85 and the car idles like stock. Your pro efi will do a much better job of controlling fuel, so no need for concern. If you stick with the Precisions, I'm sure you'll be completely satisfied with them.
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