Will Removing Balance Shaft Reduce Engines Life?

[SvicksTc]

Alright so ive been doing a lot of research on removing my balance shaft....

First off ive read its mearly there in the 2az-fe to help with noise, vibration, harshness or NVH. And that removing it will have no negative effect on the vibration that is happening near the crank shaft assembly (Very important as you well know). That it is like having a padded room in the event of the earthquake, it is still not going to change how hard the earthquake is happening, just cushioning it, Right?

Also, from reading articles straight released by toyota on the engine specifictions, that no where in the statements does it say the balance shaft is there to balance anything at all, just reduce vibration and noise....

Ive seen people do it on forums and produce realtive gains on the dyno with the simpe removal of the balance shaft, plugging a hole, tapping a hole....

I know other people have done this on many other car applications, but its always an arguement like why not to buy rota rims, etc. haha

So I want to hear what some of you guys/guru's think?

[CleanNeon98]

I say if it's there, it's probbably there for a reason.

[twastheglow]

They're there to help dampen engine vibration by spinning twice as fast as your crank in the opposite direction. I can't speak for all cars, but I know the QR25DE motor in Spec V's benefit quite a bit from it. It also gives greater oil capacity which is never bad. I haven't heard of a single issue from removing them in anyone's motor. But, that's not to say it won't. I would ask Toyota guys about your motor specifically.

[SvicksTc]

Well from understanding all the articles, post, other car forums, and other engines that its there more for a smooth ride, and since that is what generally car makers are after they add this creature comforts to enhance the ride comfort....

I dont need that slight creature comfort, and engine vibration reduction in the cabin....

Also looking at other motors that toyota uses, some dont have balance shafts in them but might be compensated by the hydro motor mounts, or heavier flywheel hence why they dont need a balance shaft and why the motor wont get stressed without it, because without it might not need it....


Or I may be completely mis-understanding evertyhing im reading.... which im doubting since people are doing it and not seeing problems with it, or the ones that do it are just being biased?

[SvicksTc]

Originally Posted by twastheglow

They're there to help dampen engine vibration by spinning twice as fast as your crank in the opposite direction. I can't speak for all cars, but I know the QR25DE motor in Spec V's benefit quite a bit from it. It also gives greater oil capacity which is never bad. I haven't heard of a single issue from removing them in anyone's motor. But, that's not to say it won't. I would ask Toyota guys about your motor specifically.

I have been looking a lot at not only my motor, inparticular being boosted and other toyota motors and released articles on motor specifictions, etc....

There have been some threads created about dyno proven results of the 2az-fe with removed balance shaft.....Not sure if it was DD though...

My car is technically my DD, but doesnt see miles being at school....So ive been working on slowly building it to the point where i have to get another car But dont tell my parents that hahaha

[Keeper1343]

i know on hondas its not a big deal at all... But for the couple of HP's your gonna get out of it, its not worth it at all. You might see like 2-3 HP. Not worth it in my opinion. Then you have to deal with everytime your motor is at idle, rattling inside the car. Thats annoying. Just keep them in there. Your car is not a race car. (no offense in anyway)

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by SvicksTc

Well from understanding all the articles, post, other car forums, and other engines that its there more for a smooth ride, and since that is what generally car makers are after they add this creature comforts to enhance the ride comfort....

I dont need that slight creature comfort, and engine vibration reduction in the cabin....

Also looking at other motors that toyota uses, some dont have balance shafts in them but might be compensated by the hydro motor mounts, or heavier flywheel hence why they dont need a balance shaft and why the motor wont get stressed without it, because without it might not need it....


Or I may be completely mis-understanding evertyhing im reading.... which im doubting since people are doing it and not seeing problems with it, or the ones that do it are just being biased?

You are correct in what you said about it making a smoother ride, etc. That IS why manufacturers develop those kinds of systems.

By getting rid of them you're removing some parasitic drag and improving throttle response and freeing up more power to go to the wheels. And like I said before, it improves oil capacity because there's just an empty space where the BS's used to be.

[JimH]

The DSM guys do it to since one of them is driven by the crank on a belt. This tends to break and take out the timing belt which is a no no on an interference engine. A lotta guys run without them with just a small vibration within a 500 rpm window. I'll be doing it shortly since I spun that bearing and I'm losing oil pressure because of it.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by Keeper1343

i know on hondas its not a big deal at all... But for the couple of HP's your gonna get out of it, its not worth it at all. You might see like 2-3 HP. Not worth it in my opinion. Then you have to deal with everytime your motor is at idle, rattling inside the car. Thats annoying. Just keep them in there. Your car is not a race car. (no offense in anyway)

IIRC in the QR motor, it was much more beneficial than in some Honda motors from what he's saying. I know nothing about Toyota motors so how much power you may see is beyond me.

[SvicksTc]

Ya im trying to find the dyno graphs of a boosted 2az-fe with removed balance shaft, etc...

I have to drop my pan anyway since its leaking at the tap, so i got a new pan and getting a bung welded in this time instead, so since my pan is goign to be off its going to be right there to remove

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by SvicksTc

Ya im trying to find the dyno graphs of a boosted 2az-fe with removed balance shaft, etc...

I have to drop my pan anyway since its leaking at the tap, so i got a new pan and getting a bung welded in this time instead, so since my pan is goign to be off its going to be right there to remove

If you can find any graphs of before and after it would be helpful...boosted or not.

As it's already been stated, some motors benefit much more than others.

[Scapegoat]

screw "smooth"... i love the shaking in my srt due to the solid motor mounts... makes me feel like i'm actually in a sporty car, and not a neon

[Jjaeger240]

So is this working pretty much as a damper for your crankshaft to prevent vibration? Yes, leave it there unless you like your engine being very volatile in high rpms and causing very rapid decrease in the life of your motor.

And said above, if the factory put it in to balance the harmonics, needless to say it was probably precautionary due to a problem they discovered during testing.

[SvicksTc]

Originally Posted by Jjaeger240

So is this working pretty much as a damper for your crankshaft to prevent vibration? Yes, leave it there unless you like your engine being very volatile in high rpms and causing very rapid decrease in the life of your motor.

And said above, if the factory put it in to balance the harmonics, needless to say it was probably precautionary due to a problem they discovered during testing.

ya but in reading articles released by toyota it never mentions once the shaft is there to balance anything....

I know the crankshaft assmebly is very important and that being messed up will cause major problems.... but what i am getting at is its only there to prevent vibration inside the cabin....(from what i take out of all the readings)

like i said think of it this way a padded room during an earthquake, the room comforts you far away from the earthquake but that doesnt change the vibration of the earthquake at the original point aka near the crankshaft assembly...

[OutToWinPAHC]

I say leave it on there. I have seen them go bad / come off on interference V8 motors and 1-2 passes without it the motor becomes a paperweight. The last thing you want is vibration on the crankshaft (bearing wear, rod knock, wrist pin fatigue, flat spots on rings, and bore damage). If you want to save rotational mass, get a lightweight flywheel.

[SvicksTc]

Originally Posted by OutToWinPAHC

I say leave it on there. I have seen them go bad / come off on interference V8 motors and 1-2 passes without it the motor becomes a paperweight. The last thing you want is vibration on the crankshaft (bearing wear, rod knock, wrist pin fatigue, flat spots on rings, and bore damage). If you want to save rotational mass, get a lightweight flywheel.

Waiting for my clutch to go, then will add 12lb flywheel with clutch....

Why replace something when it grabs now

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by Jjaeger240

So is this working pretty much as a damper for your crankshaft to prevent vibration? Yes, leave it there unless you like your engine being very volatile in high rpms and causing very rapid decrease in the life of your motor.

And said above, if the factory put it in to balance the harmonics, needless to say it was probably precautionary due to a problem they discovered during testing.

That's not 100% accurate by any means.

[SvicksTc]

See I think me and Mike are on the same page of thought here, and like in all the other threads ive looked at this has been the case of arguement....

Which is good because i want to hear other people's thoughts or i wouldnt of made this thread....

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by SvicksTc

See I think me and Mike are on the same page of thought here, and like in all the other threads ive looked at this has been the case of arguement....

Which is good because i want to hear other people's thoughts or i wouldnt of made this thread....

I'm fairly confident that the people whom are strictly against it because "it sounds like a bad idea" haven't really read much about what they do, how they work, and what removing them means/does. I have when I was looking into doing it to my Spec V. I just never got around to doing it because I sold the car and bought my S13 4 years ago.

[Jjaeger240]

Originally Posted by twastheglow

That's not 100% accurate by any means.

Yes, all motors differ in how they can handle and respond without a damper but look at any Hyper Raman scattering plots of it to realize that a damper will naturally increase the life of a motor.

See I'm confused by what you're saying [op], are you saying that this is no way related to the engine or managing any of it's components. It's just an accessory on a pulley to somehow quiet the interior? I'm confused as to what you're referring to and what it's actually used for/how it works.