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Old 02-22-2008, 02:07 PM   #21
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I agree there is a lot to be learned in both how it was run and how it may have died.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:23 PM   #22
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The real majority of it is probably conflicting schedules, some of the american d1 wasn't points events for d1 drivers, a lot of american drivers aren't gonna do d1 aymore, the rules are way different and the american cars are just out gunned. A lot of the top american drivers weren't gonna compete this year so it was probably a decision about schedules, and how much it costs to ship the cars overseas for events a crew, tires, parts,tools etc etc etc
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:21 PM   #23
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Its a damn shame that D1 died. I have seen a few, and its an awesome motorsport, really takes alot of skill. Then again all the other races dylan mentioned take the same dedication and skill. I personally hate nascar. Can't stand the "stock" cars competing, it makes me sick...
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:02 AM   #24
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hopefully D1 disappears in the US. it was horrible at e-town. the reason noone was interested is because there was no action. each run took about 15 seconds, and there were only a handful of cars. there was no sense of competition.. there was no sense of direction. JR was driving a borrowed AE86 with an SR20 in it instead of his beast of a mustang (which is what a lot of americans want to see anyway).. i mean come on, it was just plain boring. when you design a course that's 3 turns total and expect people to stay interested, your race series isn't gonna last very long.
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:48 AM   #25
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I think you misunderstood, Vince. There are sweeping generalizations because this is a car forum in which I can not post a paper in which I discussed the socio-economic impact of NASCAR, which is somewhat near 17 pages and 36 citations. I did it for my Politics of Modern Capitalism class 2 years ago to get my Political Economy Cert. Here it is in a nutshell..

Have you ever wondered why it is marketted as it is marketted, or why Fox bought Speedvision (and now Speed Channel?). It is being forged into a multi-faceted business- and if you can't see that, then you're blind, because merch is everywhere! This means that there are a variety of ways to handle it. Coverage of other events is masked on the only dedicated automotive channel (you know when you watch, oh I dunno, F1 at 3am? That sort of thing), while there are always numerous "NASCAR" nights, etc etc. NASCAR is the prime marketable racing series within the US, and regardless of subjective demographics, it is being honed to be the American racing series, regardless of the current status. This means that in order for other series to survive, there must be some form of predication on the part of their own, and their must be some form of economic feasibility for anybody to really sustain it by means of sponsorship or marketing rights. I've read in numerous sources that while drifting caught on quickly, it did not seem to have the sustainability of other racing series. Is this true? It is subjectively dependent upon what criterion you place upon it (time, demographic base, goals, etc), and all of the reactions that I have read have led me to form the opinion that it simply is another racing series that will be swept up in the machine that is NASCAR.

You may believe what you want about that and its "generalized" nature, however, coming from someone who actually did research on the political/social/economic side, trust me on this, NASCAR is a lot more than "independent" demographies. It is all a matter of how far you want to go to realize that. I never once said that D1 can not co-exist or can not even exist within its own right, however, a business is a business, and lest I remind you..how long did it take for it to catch on here? That alone should lead to the negativity of its business prowess.
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Old 02-23-2008, 04:21 PM   #26
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OZ, you're acting like D1 was ever a big deal in the US. It wasn't. You can't compare D1 to Nascar and I don't even know why NASCAR is being brought up. D1 failed for a lot of reasons, first being the japs and the way they try and run stuff like this. Another reason was the fact that all the US guys making sure the japs got what they wanted and pretty much running things quit. And then lack of sales of videos and mags when there was US stuff on the cover or featured. And lack of attendance at US events. Anyone could've seen this coming for the past couple years. So who cares? It's not like D1 was the big drifting series in the states. I don't think much will change.

And you know, even though you guys act cool and bash circle track racing, you don't realize the engineering and work and everything that does go into those cars. They're doing a lot with what they're allowed to in the rules. There's development going on that's on par with F1, at least in the Nextel Cup Cars, in terms of testing and new technology although F1 does allow more freedom. And the fact that circle track is so popular is because there are so many levels. You look at other areas of the country and everyone and their mother is competing in some type of circle track racing. And America loves circle track racing because that's how america is. You can see everything going on, all the action, all the excitement is contained in a small oval right in front of you. While road racing/rally/drifting would be more exciting to car enthusiasts, being spectators at those events sucks for the average person. You can only see a small part of the course, you're missing a lot of action, and that's what people want.

And I'm not sure what you're trying to say about how long it took D1 to catch on here? Drifting hasn't been around that long in any type of national competitve series in the US. And D1 was never really at the front of that. There were D1 events before Formula D started, but they weren't really national events. There were a couple smaller events, mostly out in SoCal. But whatever, D1 is gone, it's not going to affect anyone here, so who cares. Unless you guys were just sad that you couldn't go and take pictures of real JDM cars, then you have nothing to complain about.
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:12 PM   #27
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And you know, even though you guys act cool and bash circle track racing, you don't realize the engineering and work and everything that does go into those cars. They're doing a lot with what they're allowed to in the rules. There's development going on that's on par with F1, at least in the Nextel Cup Cars, in terms of testing and new technology although F1 does allow more freedom. And the fact that circle track is so popular is because there are so many levels. You look at other areas of the country and everyone and their mother is competing in some type of circle track racing. And America loves circle track racing because that's how america is. You can see everything going on, all the action, all the excitement is contained in a small oval right in front of you. While road racing/rally/drifting would be more exciting to car enthusiasts, being spectators at those events sucks for the average person. You can only see a small part of the course, you're missing a lot of action, and that's what people want.
I understand where you are coming from, but I think most of us fall under the "car enthusiasts" category, hence why I was complaining about Nascar. I respect them for the engine work, and design it takes to create the race cars, not to mention the stamina it takes to drive for so long, but I just wish America could let in some of the other sports too... which is why I said I hate nascar, I am just sick of seeing it, plain and simple.
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:34 PM   #28
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Hey I love NASCAR. You def can't complain about an event that leaves you deaf has mad hot chicks and you can BYOB. Don't knock it until you've gone to a race. Its not as "boring" as every one thinks.

As for D1, it sucks. Definitley a sick watchin those guys do their thing.
I've been to a race and fell asleep after the first hour. And I didn't enjoy all the hot chicks because I could count the number of teeth they had on one hand and I didn't have enough hands to count the number of babies they had.
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:04 PM   #29
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I understand where you are coming from, but I think most of us fall under the "car enthusiasts" category, hence why I was complaining about Nascar. I respect them for the engine work, and design it takes to create the race cars, not to mention the stamina it takes to drive for so long, but I just wish America could let in some of the other sports too... which is why I said I hate nascar, I am just sick of seeing it, plain and simple.
And that's fine, I could care less if people like NASCAR or they don't. Personally, I'm not a big fan, but I do appreciate what goes into it both in regards to design and to marketing. NASCAR does a lot to get recognition. And because of their efforts which help to bring in tons of people that wouldn't give any thought to any type of racing is why it does so well in this country.

The only way to make any changes in what motorsports are seen in the US is to participate in them in some form or another. Watching them on TV only counts to a certain extent. And for whoever said that F1 is only on at 3AM or other weird times, you do realize that its live and on the other side of the world, so they aren't going to change the time they start a race so it works better for US TV schedules. And if I remember right, they usually rebroadcast the races later in the day or later that night.

But participation is key, bitching about it on an internet forum means nothing. Going to events as a spectator or participating as a driver is the only way to make any change. Unless you have a ton of money and want to buy a TV network and broadcast all the races you would want to see, there is nothing you're going to do. There is room in the US for other motorsports and there are a lot of people who are into other motorsports, but the fact of the matter is NASCAR has a much bigger fan base and more money than any of these in the US. So without money and fans, this is going to go nowhere.

And it's going to be hard to change the whole way different forms of racing are seen in the US. But there are series organizers of other types of racing that want more exposure and more fans and a larger part of the motorsports market. But the only way to do that is to participate. For example, you want to see Rally, well find out where rallies are taking place and go and spectate. Or maybe if more than 0.1% of all the potential sweet rally cars on this forum, competed in some type of amatuer rally it would gather a lot more attention. But I don't see that happening with the people on here.

The TV networks and sponsors are not going to just wake up one day and say, let's stop showing NASCAR and show more of these other motorsports. They need some type of incentive to show this stuff. I mean look at how Formula D has gone over the years even just in terms of TV coverage. It started out with little to none, got featured shows on the G4 network and now it has featured shows after each of the events on ESPN2. There are reasons for this progression, and it could also happen with other motorsports, but they need participation.

So if you guys want to keep sitting behind your keyboards and complaining about the lack of different motorsports on TV, go out and do something. There are tons of ways to get involved. And I know people will say that they don't want to travel a couple hours to watch/participate in some other type of motorsports and it's that kind of laziness or apathy that takes away all credibility when complaining about the current situation of motorsports in the US.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:33 AM   #30
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there is suposed to be some drift racing in millville , nj at that new motorsports park i hope it wasnt D1. i like the truck series myself nothing wrong with nascar its damn near the same thing as football.
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:32 AM   #31
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Eh, it's only making headway b/c we now have a market for some of the cars. I don't believe that any of those series that I listed will have a strong long-term history with the US "demographic".

Being a big fan of F1, it's a ****ing bitch to have NASCAR on 24/7. And being a big fan of int'l touring car series and LM series, I've come to realize that regardless of who you think watches what- it comes down to the $$- and that is, and will never be, F1, WRC, DTM, V8SC, BTCC, WTCC, and now D1- in the US.
I've been to 2 Indy 500s, a F1 USGP and a NASCAR race. The USGP was by far the coolest of all those. Ferrari/Porsche races before race and watching the F1 cars launch from the pits is amazing. Huge screens everywhere so you always know whats going on. Its a completely different class crowd. NASCAR had budweiser stands while the USGP had martini stands.
I actually left half through the NASCAR race because the track (Dover) was so small that I had no idea who was leading or what was going on. Extremely boring and full of hicks.
Drifting was dead before it started. I'm sure its fun to drift but watching it on tv is quite boring. Not to mention the pathetic attempts to "Nopi'ize" it. Meaning every show was trying wayyyyyyy too hard to be hip and cool.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:10 AM   #32
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The only way to make any changes in what motorsports are seen in the US is to participate in them in some form or another. Watching them on TV only counts to a certain extent. And for whoever said that F1 is only on at 3AM or other weird times, you do realize that its live and on the other side of the world, so they aren't going to change the time they start a race so it works better for US TV schedules. And if I remember right, they usually rebroadcast the races later in the day or later that night.
Very rarely are any of the races broadcast live over here, for many series. Usually there is a heavy delay (hours upon hours, weeks with the V8 Supercars series), for their other important programming- namely **** like Tunervision- takes the spot.

Your theory is wholly utopian, and while it is nice to think, "Hey, let me just go out and privateer a race team and save ______", it is flawed because it simply is not realistic.

And to say NASCAR is on par technologically with F1 is quite a bold statement. I'm not going to refute it, however, the technology in F1 which trickles down is much more exciting than anything NASCAR has ever contributed. Hands down.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:23 PM   #33
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I was pretty sure that at least last year all the F1 races were broadcast live and then replayed later. I may be wrong, but I am almost positive that there was a lot of live F1 coverage. As for other series like Aussie V8 supercars, if you really have to question why it isn't getting media attention in the US, then your bias is taking over. There's no market for stuff like that and I'm sure that Speed would consider that and a lot of other series as filler. It will get played when there is an open slot. NOPI pays a lot of money to get their show on the air at the time they want and in Speed's eyes money is more important that a race going on in another country with little following in the US.

And I never said you had to go out and try and fund a race team for a major series. There are several levels of motorsports that anyone can compete in. And I also said spectating will help to get a series more attention. So yes, it's not realistic for everyone to go out and compete in ALMS or GrandAm or anything like that. But it is realistic to go and spectate at these events and help to bring up those numbers.

As for NASCAR/F1, it's not the technology being developed, it's the technology being used in R&D and testing. K&C testing, 7-posts, CFD, wind tunnel stuff, etc.
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:11 PM   #34
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I've been to a race and fell asleep after the first hour. And I didn't enjoy all the hot chicks because I could count the number of teeth they had on one hand and I didn't have enough hands to count the number of babies they had.

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Old 02-24-2008, 08:07 PM   #35
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I actually prefer DTM over V8 Supercars, I was merely using V8 Supercars as the example. Or WRC for that matter. And some races are live, but most are not.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:34 PM   #36
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Who cares that it got canceled, Drifting would of never lasted in the states. As for F1, i watched every race live at about 5 in the morning. i was amazed how much time there was in a day when u wake up that early. V8 supercar was on at 3pm to 5pm during the fall, and the same for DTM. i thought the coverage was pretty good
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:45 PM   #37
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Good compared to what, soccer coverage on Espn?
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:24 PM   #38
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I never catch as many F1 races as I want to. There's no way in hell I'm gettting up at 5am on a weekend to watch T.V. Especially since it's allways re-ran at a resonable time the next day.

F1 is amazing. I went to the USGP in 2006. It was freakin amazing. I'v been to a few NASCAR events and the difference between the two is like night and day. Nascar gets horribly boring after the first hour. I was entertained at the F1 race all the way untill the last corner.
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:39 PM   #39
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Who cares that it got canceled, Drifting would of never lasted in the states. As for F1, i watched every race live at about 5 in the morning. i was amazed how much time there was in a day when u wake up that early. V8 supercar was on at 3pm to 5pm during the fall, and the same for DTM. i thought the coverage was pretty good
Scott, drifting is far from dead in the US. It's just D1 which really wasn't a big series. Besides a couple of the jap drivers, everyone who was really competing in the US D1 series was also competing in Formula D or at least NOPI.

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Good compared to what, soccer coverage on Espn?
For someone who claims to know about the economics of all this stuff, why are you not understanding why these races are shown at the times they are? I mean it would be great if they bumped NASCAR primetime stuff for a random race in a smaller series on a different continent just because you want to watch it, but that's not going to happen.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:06 AM   #40
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I meant D1 wasn't going to last, i know there will always be drifting events, also i hate how speed channel covers those stupid hick shows with bus racing and tandom car racing, they should replace that with oh i don't know maybe V8 super car, DTM, WRC, ALMS series anything will be better than that crap

I don't know about you guys but if you want to watch soccer, Fox soccer channel (FSC) is where its at (24/7 of just straight soccer its great). Besides speed channel i watch FSC all day.
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