February 2011 Car & Driver: STi vs. Genesis vs. WRX vs Evo vs Mustang V6, etc, etc

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by rodder

I realized my favorite part about my subaru compared to it's FWD or RWD competitors on the way to work today... I can enjoy my car all year round and actually look forward to driving in the snow.

SO TAKE THAT!! :p

Add in the fact that I love snowboarding and need to be out on the road in the worst weather we get if I want to enjoy riding when conditions are the best and there's just no other choice for me but a subaru.

That said, if I lived in So Cal or somewhere that didn't ever see snow I'd definitely have something RWD for my daily.

10 days out of a 365 day year where AWD makes a world of differnce isn't even an arguement. It has nothing to do with the V6 Mustang putting the STi to shame on a track.

Everything else is personal preference. PERIOD.

[ndubz]

Wow, 15 ****ing pages.

Ok, lemme sum it all up here:

The new mustang V6 is finally a real sports car clearly. It has been made so in direct competition with the genesis and such, and it is quite impressive.

Subaru on the other hand has fallen out of whack. The Sti has indeed been on a downward slope, it just wasnt clear until both it and the Evo recieved their new chassis in 08. The evo got alot better, and the Sti got worse. Also the fact that they havent worked to really update the performance of the Sti at all since it was brought here. Im sorry but it is pathetic that subaru has not made a stock Sti 350hp or above by now......and its pathetic that they have knowingly softened the car. Supposedly the new gen Stis should be better, but it seems they are not by much, and not at all compared to their market competition. Subaru needs a kick in their ****ing ass.

In reality, the current Sti should be the WRX, and the Sti should be a wild 380bhp sharp handling monster with torque vectoring and highly adjustable awd.

But that isnt reality, so what im really saying here is that Ndubz should be Chairmen/CEO/President/etc of Subaru!!!!!!!!


But for real that sums it up. Ford has gotten better, subaru has gotten worse and here is where we stand. U can talk about practicality and usability all day, but the sti is a PERFORMANCE CAR, and track performance DOES matter for a car like that. So this test is relevant.

[Scapegoat]

RWD vehicle when it snows means i have a viable excuse to work from home. meaning, i get paid to do my normal workload in my underwear and i have time in the morning to get laid. it's awesome

[jjm4life]

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by jjm4life

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

Exactly.

[ScarletSaturn]

Originally Posted by ndubz

But for real that sums it up. Ford has gotten better, subaru has gotten worse and here is where we stand. U can talk about practicality and usability all day, but the sti is a PERFORMANCE CAR, and track performance DOES matter for a car like that. So this test is relevant.

For once, Ndubz has a point. I'm also a fellow Subaru fan, and the fact of the matter is not just that Subaru is slipping.

Ford has been steadily improving most of their product line since 2005 (slowly but surely) and now the Mustang is better than it's been for god knows how many years.

I drove the V6 Mustang around Morristown NJ and can say it feels a lot better than the older V6 did. It's not only more powerful, but the engine's lighter than the 4.0L boat anchor and it feels like it. It's more confidence-inspiring.

I mean, yes, you can tune the STi to be faster, but that's not what the test was about. It was about taking a few showroom-stock vehicles to VIR and seeing how they perform. The results tell the story.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by ScarletSaturn

and now the Mustang is better than it's been for god knows how many years.

i'd say in 41 years

[ambitiousCK]

At least 350 hp, find a fix for the suspension issues, forged pistons......that's all it would take for me to move out of my GD chassis....sadly that won't happen. So I'll continue to build the sti that subaru should have. Really hope subaru gets there **** together soon....

[Supraru]

Originally Posted by jjm4life

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

While that is not my argument in any way anyone can "make it" through anything. Drive an awd subie or evo in the snow with decent all seasons or even snow tires. There is no comparing you're car being able to "make it" somewhere and me driving like I do every single day to work 40 miles round trip. Claiming your car is just as good as an awd car in the snow is hilarious.

[ndubz]

Originally Posted by jjm4life

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

U may have "made it" and thats great. But "making it" with rwd is like being stranded on a desert island and having to spear fish and search for water just to survive in a meager fashion. You "can do it" but its hardly easy or something ud actually enjoy doing....... it really just winds up being a pain in the ass that u just have to put up with in order to get by.

On the other hand, having awd in the snow is like being stranded on that same desert island, but then calling ur 200' yacht to come pick u up with all the food, women, and accommodations u could ever want.......and then deciding to stay and cruise around the island for a few days because u like the views and the unobstructed serenity of nature. All the while u are watching the other idiots on the island (ppl in 2wd cars) trying to survive by the hair of their chinny chin chin from the comfort of ur luxurious yacht just 1000ft off shore. Ud let some of them on board, but your crew, ur friends, and all the generic hot ass girls who came along for the ride have the ship just at its comfortable capacity.......and of course we wouldnt want the boat to get crowded now would we?......of course not.

Thats what i believe to be an accurate analogy of the differences between having an awd car and a 2wd car in the snow.

I drove this kids E46 M3 up this long hill in my town a few weeks back because he just couldnt do it at all. Yea I got it up the hill, but it was not what id call an easy or pleasurable experience.......other than the fact that I proved yet again that I am better than most drivers It took alotta fine clutch work and concentration but it got done. I then proceeded up the same hill 5 min later in my STi, not even any sort of challenge at all.......no slip, no drama, not even slow progress, i did a solid 40mph no problem. I then went up another hill about twice as steep that night with no issues either.

JJM, u may get by, but ur 100% mistaken to say that snow performance in rwd or fwd cars is even close to awd cars.....it just is not and that is a verifiable fact. Hate on subaru for being **** on by the v6 mustang on the track all u want.....it deserves it. But dont even try to say a subaru is inferior to any of the cars tested in the snow....because it isnt.....not by a long shot, and yes i include the evo in that list. Evos do great in the snow, but not like subarus do.....not even close.

[ndubz]

Originally Posted by ScarletSaturn

For once, Ndubz has a point. I'm also a fellow Subaru fan, and the fact of the matter is not just that Subaru is slipping.

Ford has been steadily improving most of their product line since 2005 (slowly but surely) and now the Mustang is better than it's been for god knows how many years.

I drove the V6 Mustang around Morristown NJ and can say it feels a lot better than the older V6 did. It's not only more powerful, but the engine's lighter than the 4.0L boat anchor and it feels like it. It's more confidence-inspiring.

I mean, yes, you can tune the STi to be faster, but that's not what the test was about. It was about taking a few showroom-stock vehicles to VIR and seeing how they perform. The results tell the story.

For Once? really?

this coming from the kid who backs out of every debate he gets into lol

I always have a point, some people may not like my point, but I always have one.

Albert, go follow some girl to takeout and tell her about the pigeons while staring at her folding her panties in the laundry room lmfao (true story for anyone who cares ;) )







mods, this is a roomate affair.....no infractions necessary lol

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by ndubz

U may have "made it" and thats great. But "making it" with rwd is like being stranded on a desert island and having to spear fish and search for water just to survive in a meager fashion. You "can do it" but its hardly easy or something ud actually enjoy doing....... it really just winds up being a pain in the ass that u just have to put up with in order to get by.

It really isn't 1/2 as hard as you make to seem.

[Godofelru]

The largest issue with the AWD vs RWD debate that i'm seeing is this:

I'll take the careful driver with the rwd and all seasons ANYDAY than the driver who think's he's invincible in his AWD snow tired car. Which IMO is the way some of the AWD guys are coming off. We all know AWD is better in snow.

Ignorance =/= Confidence.

[92awdtsi]

if the snow is over your bumpers it don't matter if you have 6wd. your not going anywhere.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

10 days out of a 365 day year where AWD makes a world of differnce isn't even an arguement. It has nothing to do with the V6 Mustang putting the STi to shame on a track.

Everything else is personal preference. PERIOD.

If it's not "even an argument" then why are you arguing?

I spend a lot more than 10 days out of the year driving in snow and I clearly stated that the reason I chose a subaru hands down over anything else that might be able to compete with it or beat it on a track is because I spend a lot of time driving in the snow due to my hobbies. If that doesn't sound like a personal preference I don't know how I could have put it any more clearly.

Since coming to this site I've noticed a pattern from you. You seem to start arguments without provocation and just be generally disruptive in threads where people disagree with you. Try not to take teh internets so srsly, k?

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by rodder

If it's not "even an argument" then why are you arguing?

I spend a lot more than 10 days out of the year driving in snow and I clearly stated that the reason I chose a subaru hands down over anything else that might be able to compete with it or beat it on a track is because I spend a lot of time driving in the snow due to my hobbies. If that doesn't sound like a personal preference I don't know how I could have put it any more clearly.

Since coming to this site I've noticed a pattern from you. You seem to start arguments without provocation and just be generally disruptive in threads where people disagreeing with you. Try not to take teh internets so srsly, k?

Since your into doing things arround snow, something AWD is a good choice for you. It has nothing to do with comparing the Mustang to the other cars on the road test.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by 92awdtsi

if the snow is over your bumpers it don't matter if you have 6wd. your not going anywhere.

wrong-o

Both subarus I've owned have been lowered all year round and make great snow plows.

My old WRX with snow tires used to have no problem plowing right through over a foot and a half of snow going up-hill. (My old house had a long, steep driveway that I never once had to shovel to get my car up)

[rodder]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Exactly.

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Since your into doing things arround snow, something AWD is a good choice for you. It has nothing to do with comparing the Mustang to the other cars on the road test.

So when someone goes off-topic and talks about snow as a factor in their personal choice and you agree with them, it's OK. But if you DON'T agree, it has nothing to do with the topic and is worthy of starting an argument with someone who never said anything to you in the first place?

Cool.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by ndubz

but "making it" with rwd is like being stranded on a desert island and having to spear fish and search for water just to survive in a meager fashion. You "can do it" but its hardly easy or something ud actually enjoy doing....... It really just winds up being a pain in the ass that u just have to put up with in order to get by.

On the other hand, having awd in the snow is like being stranded on that same desert island, but then calling ur 200' yacht to come pick u up with all the food, women, and accommodations u could ever want.......and then deciding to stay and cruise around the island for a few days because u like the views and the unobstructed serenity of nature. All the while u are watching the other idiots on the island (ppl in 2wd cars) trying to survive by the hair of their chinny chin chin from the comfort of ur luxurious yacht just 1000ft off shore. Ud let some of them on board, but your crew, ur friends, and all the generic hot ass girls who came along for the ride have the ship just at its comfortable capacity.......and of course we wouldnt want the boat to get crowded now would we?......of course not.

Thats what i believe to be an accurate analogy of the differences between having an awd car and a 2wd car in the snow.

awesome. Lol

[Supraru]

Originally Posted by rodder

So when someone goes off-topic and talks about snow as a factor in their personal choice and you agree with them, it's OK. But if you DON'T agree, it has nothing to do with the topic and is worthy of starting an argument with someone who never said anything to you in the first place?

Cool.

There are plenty like him. I think it's funny. This is why you can't take this place or any forum seriously. I told morons on nasioc some rumor about the new Sti engine because people were just spouting off nonsense. You'd be surprised at who believes what. He'll I've kept this thread very entertaining. It's all funny to me. Lol