Should you become a citizen just for being born in the US?

[angdefeo]

I think that the original story in the news a few days ago was about boutique hotel chains and other businesses marketing a “come be born in the USA” service. This service offered to anyone who can pay $15-20k for a 30 day stay in the USA offers a pregnant woman a stay in a luxury, birthing services, and the child gets a birth certificate from the USA. In this case we have businesses in the USA loyal only to making profit no matter how it affects the rest of the citizens. According to ABC news last night there were about 7,400 births from these type of business's last year. There were 4.5 million live births last year.

I also read through most of the thread and completely agree with Fujito. There are too many economic factors that are not being taken into consideration when we say get all illegal out of our country. There were meat processing facilities in the Nebraska and Iowa that had to shut down after the INS started looking into the status of the workers. The one thing that will happen for sure if we get all illegals out of our country, is all food will be more expensive. The places that closed could not find local American workers willing to work in slaughter houses for the rate they were paying the “illegals”.

So when everyone begins to say get them out or don’t let them in, ask yourself if you are willing to pay up to 25% more for everything you eat.

[Elliott18t]

so them most likely sending money out of the country to their families (while nobel) is a good thing???(economically speaking)

[jpalamar]

I already pay extra for stuff... IE refuse to shop at Wal-Mart.

[angdefeo]

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

so them most likely sending money out of the country to their families (while nobel) is a good thing???(economically speaking)

I am speaking in general terms above for the most part. the 25% increase is my estimate given the wage increases (unionized and non-unionized that would take place in the hunt for workers to fill jobs).

while they live in the usa, they spend the rest of the money where they live. they buy food, clothes, and other things here. let’s say at an $8hr rate at 60hrs a week we get to $480 a week. for the year that’s $24,960. and many illelagls who work for larger sized companies use fake social security numbers so they have some taxes taken out of that amount. but for this argument we can say they take home the whole amount.

a person takes home $2,080 a month. of that amount they need to spend some to live. it’s not that much money that they can send home.

when you compare it to the amount of estimates of people (5-10 million illegal’s) here who work in the job sectors (agriculture and food processing) that everyone depends on to live, we would all be affected in much higher amount if the beef, pork, and chicken cost more to process. then you add in the labor needed to pick, pack, and ship fruits and vegetables. the amount sent out of the country has less impact on us as a whole.

think about this: in the last 5 years, the American auto manufactures were the largest growth employers in the northern border Mexican states. what does that mean? the auto companies created more jobs in northern Mexico than any other business in those areas. as jobs here were cut they were being created somewhere else.

what I am trying to say is illegal immigrants are good some screen that we can all point at to say they are causing us problems. but in reality it's misguided. our country has always had this type of reaction when the economy goes bad, the person at the lowest step in the ladder is blamed. but in reality its much larger institutions and government who made the mistakes that affect us more.

Originally Posted by jpalamar

I already pay extra for stuff... IE refuse to shop at Wal-Mart.

jay i try to do the same thing and its nobel. if there were an alternative that had "made in the usa" on the label i would feel like i was accomplishing something. no matter where we go its "made elsewhere". in the end i feel like we are just hurting our own pockets by spending more on the same thing.

[Elliott18t]

ok, lets say thats what they make and have... 2 kids? they then possibly qualify for welfare or section 8 housing? for rent is mostly/completely paid for and they still have this 2k a month, if that is even reported to taxes. so lets say a good chunk of that is spent of food clothing.. like 500ish a month(which could be spent at walmart which is cheap and doesnt help out the us at all)? so 1500 roughly still left. They can maybe send ~ 1000 us dollars over seas to somewhere where our money is worth much more like a rupee or peso. and still have money left over for whatever(utilities etc).

this may be an extreme case but i dont see it as not possible.and maybe on per capita scale it doesnt seem like much but lets say even 1/5 of the illegals do this(maybe still a large number)... Thats still A LOT of money leaving.

[angdefeo]

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

ok, lets say thats what they make and have... 2 kids? they then possibly qualify for welfare or section 8 housing? for rent is mostly/completely paid for and they still have this 2k a month, if that is even reported to taxes. so lets say a good chunk of that is spent of food clothing.. like 500ish a month(which could be spent at walmart which is cheap and doesnt help out the us at all)? so 1500 roughly still left. They can maybe send ~ 1000 us dollars over seas to somewhere where our money is worth much more like a rupee or peso. and still have money left over for whatever(utilities etc).

this may be an extreme case but i dont see it as not possible.and maybe on per capita scale it doesnt seem like much but lets say even 1/5 of the illegals do this(maybe still a large number)... Thats still A LOT of money leaving.

no, you cannot get any goverment assitance if you are not a citizen or an legal allien. so a child who is born here to illegal parents does not get help.

if i am wrong and your example is correct, then you wouldnt be sending back that much money cause your family is here. my understanding is that people sending back money have wives and children that they are supporting until they can get means to have them come to the usa.

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by angdefeo

no, you cannot get any goverment assitance if you are not a citizen or an legal allien. so a child who is born here to illegal parents does not get help.

if i am wrong and your example is correct, then you wouldnt be sending back that much money cause your family is here. my understanding is that people sending back money have wives and children that they are supporting until they can get means to have them come to the usa.

im just assuming that they are using their fake SS # number they could, but highly unlikely

[jpalamar]

I think they are sending more money home then we think. I always hear about raids where they hit up one house and find 10+ people living there. To me, that makes living costs very low vs. each person having their own place. Leaves lots of money to send back to their home country.

[Got Insulin?]

Aside from all the other issues, allowing citizenship "just because" royally ****s up our Vital Statistics system. Immigration alone is super tough to get everything to match, much less trying to manage death/birth certs and other info that IIs don't have.

[angdefeo]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

I think they are sending more money home then we think. I always hear about raids where they hit up one house and find 10+ people living there. To me, that makes living costs very low vs. each person having their own place. Leaves lots of money to send back to their home country.

it's still nothing compared to bigger US coprorations moving jobs to lowwer cost countries.

[Elliott18t]

Thats just as bad, but why let it continue?

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by angdefeo

it's still nothing compared to bigger US coprorations moving jobs to lowwer cost countries.

True, but that has nothing to do with illegals in the US.

[Got Insulin?]

Originally Posted by omgjacki

"under Buddah".

I should hope you wouldn't. You'd be crushed.

[Maxxdsix]

Originally Posted by Got Insulin?

I should hope you wouldn't. You'd be crushed.

rofl.

[angdefeo]

i dont want illegals here either. but they are here and no matter what law we make or what actions we take it will negatively me, you, and everyone else in our country if we round them up and ship them out on monday morning.

illegal immigrants is another one of the hot button issues that used by politicans to stay in office. i just hate that what in my eyes doesn't have that much of direct impact in most of our lives becomes the issue that makes us vote. its like a smoke screen to get us off our butts but it distracts us from the bigger issues that hurt us way more.

[Elliott18t]

true it is a smoke screen, but its an issue none the less..
However, I think picking up a deporting everyone right now that is an illegal immigrant is a huge job that is just to much to get done.
What we should be doing is making it difficult to get in so more cannot do the same with out going through the correct channels. I have no problem with immigrants coming here, its just they should do it like everyone else and I know people who are that would agree.

[Rado_VR6]

This such a touchy issue. I recently got out the military and I absolutely HATED knowing I was over in the desert while illegals were welcomed with open arms once the baby was popped out. I don't want my tax paying dollars going to healthcare or any other luxury they can recieve. I say ship them all off back to wherever the hell they came from up until they get the proper paerwork.

[Got Insulin?]

Originally Posted by Rado_VR6

This such a touchy issue. I recently got out the military and I absolutely HATED knowing I was over in the desert while illegals were welcomed with open arms once the baby was popped out. I don't want my tax paying dollars going to healthcare or any other luxury they can recieve. I say ship them all off back to wherever the hell they came from up until they get the proper paerwork.

So you don't want to pay for their healthcare, but you wouldn't mind paying for their plane or boat ticket? No matter what, our money is paying for them.

[Rado_VR6]

Originally Posted by Got Insulin?

So you don't want to pay for their healthcare, but you wouldn't mind paying for their plane or boat ticket? No matter what, our money is paying for them.

Nope, if they came over on a raft, they leave on a raft. They hopped a fence, then they hop their asses right back over. America has her own issues to sort out, our own people to help, screw the handouts to illegals.

[ASIAN JUL]

I doubt that America would be so barbaric as to throw the illegals into a tire and set them to sail.