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Old 11-24-2006, 11:02 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Ball end / clevis links are used on almost every ITB application I've ever seen. I have about 100 different pics of different throttle linkages and they all (every single one) use this method to sync both banks.
works for me
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:34 AM   #42
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Thats nuts, being able to look at that in full detail is awesome.

How are you planning on getting that thing tuned?
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:46 AM   #43
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I was looking at it electrically, and I was kinda confused as to how the TPS is working in it.

Other than that, I'd wanna recruit you for another project I've been thinking of. >_>
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:22 PM   #44
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TPS looks like it'll work like any other TPS. Looks like a bosch type he chose and wiill probably be 5v Reference, signal, and ground. You can flip flop the polarity of a 3 pin variable TPS by moving the ground and 5v reference wires from one terminal to the other. Signal always remains the same.

I just had to do this for a BMW 535i turbo I built an ECU for.
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Old 11-24-2006, 01:00 PM   #45
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Very trick man.
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Old 11-26-2006, 03:53 AM   #46
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this looks similar, but im guessing it's not? Still insane.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:09 AM   #47
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similar, but that is only 2 throttle bodies. that guy is a sissy.



just kidding, that car is totally insane and that guy is real intelligent, i read up on his car a bit on nasioc.
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Old 12-28-2006, 03:56 PM   #48
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whats the latest progress of this project?? intercooler looked blinging
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Old 12-29-2006, 02:04 PM   #49
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It's coming along, but slowly. I just got my intake manifold flanges made so I can start fabbing that. ITBs are hopefully being machined soon
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Old 12-29-2006, 02:27 PM   #50
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nice man...keep up with the progress and good work!
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:59 PM   #51
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I've also been spending most of my time welding / fabbing new seat brackets so that I can get my seats out of my garage. Space is becoming a premium as I spend more time moving stuff than working on it.

I'll post pics in about 2 weeks once I get the radiator and intercooler mounted. Everything requires work just to get it bolted on the car in projects like this. This isn't just a "bolt on" project. More like weld, solder, cut, grind, try to fit, rinse and repeat, then paint project, and that takes time.

Radiator support / bumper beam is complete though. Inlets and Outlets are soldered on the radiator (Still have to pressure test it).

I still have a ton of time left in making the linkage and throttle activation mechanism once I get the ITBs.

Bill
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:51 AM   #52
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UPDATE

MANIFOLD DESIGN COMPLETE:

I was finally able to come up with a design that I was happy with and had the minimal # of comprimises. This took me a while, but I am glad I took my time with it.

This design is modeled after the Magnus "Race" 4G63-DSM manifold plenum. It also happens to have exactly the right runner length and also fit under the hood. I did have to loose the battery (going to trunk) and windshield washer res. moves to battery location.







I also nixed the synchronizer arm assembly in favor of 2 flexible shafts that meet on top of the bell housing. (Under where the stock top mount IC normally sits for you Subaru guys). This way I should be able to retain all of the stock DBW hardware and functionality. ITBs are finally being machined, however it did cost me my rotated FMIC setup. I was fortunate enough to have a CNC machinist from Nasioc offer to help me out.

Bill
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:00 PM   #53
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Why won't this post up?

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Old 01-10-2007, 01:12 PM   #54
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Now I'm curious about what method you used to optimize runner length and plenum volume. I'm no expert on this by any means, but I have been around other people doing it and it seems that everyone has a different opinion on the right way to do it. So how did you? Was it frequency based and did you take into account the exhaust side? Was it optimized for a certain rpm? I'm just curious about this stuff.

But it looks pretty good. Looks like it's going to be expensive to have made, but pretty cool.
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:14 PM   #55
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There's really no way to know how efficent it is without flow testing and dyno testing right???? I mean nothing like this has ever been attempted on an ej20 correct???
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:20 PM   #56
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Not necessarily. There is a lot of actual design that goes into an intake system. Final testing should be done with flow testing and dyno tuning. But without a good solid design behind the manifolds, you're just kicking yourself in the balls. I mean there's a lot of design and simulation that can be done before a single part is manufactured. Results from these programs should be verified through actual testing, but the better the foundation, the better the final product.
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:25 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiisass View Post
Now I'm curious about what method you used to optimize runner length and plenum volume. I'm no expert on this by any means, but I have been around other people doing it and it seems that everyone has a different opinion on the right way to do it. So how did you? Was it frequency based and did you take into account the exhaust side? Was it optimized for a certain rpm? I'm just curious about this stuff.

But it looks pretty good. Looks like it's going to be expensive to have made, but pretty cool.
I was going to ask the same questions. The runners look like a good middle ground between short-and-fat and long-and-skinny. My knowledge on the subject is limited to what I've read in a couple books, so how you came up with the ideal length and diameter of the runners, and plenum volume. If you don't mind disclosing the specs numbers are cool, but if you don't want to it's still cool.

Thanks for the update!
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:08 PM   #58
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Well to start calculating Runner length you first need to know your cam specs.
http://briancrower.com/makes/subaru/ej257.shtml
Since I am using stock STI cams, I take the intake cam duration quoted here (204deg)

Then using the equations found here:
http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ionsystems.pdf

I got a "tuned" runner length of 15.7" (total length from plenum to valve). This equates to roughly 8.5" runner length in the manifold itself (15.7- head distance and ITB distance). using 3rd order, 5K-5.5K RPM

The pdf is a graph I made using the Grape Racing formulas and the 3-7 order harmonics for the STI engine. X order (series on the graph) is just the number of times the sound waves bounce back and forth inside the plenum. Obviously the higher the harmonic, the less pronounced local pressure increase you get. (sound levels are lower the further away you are)

http://users.rcn.com/wgknestrick/RUN...ALCULATION.pdf

On the graph, my chosen length is the straight line across. Every time this line intersects a X order line, you will get a air pressure increase (ie hp increase) I tried to choose a length that A. fit and B.gave the most increases from these harmonics at the best RPMs. Hopefully this will give a semi-broad HP increase over most of the RPM range.

Remember the lengths shown on the graph are from the TGV valves (or my case ITBs) to the plenum. They are not the "total" length. Add 7.23" to get total length.

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Old 01-10-2007, 02:14 PM   #59
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Runner DIA was chosen by taking the internal circumfrence of the ITB slot ports and matching that up with the closest standard tubing size ID circumfrence. This happened to fall right at 2.0" ID which is 2.125" tubing. It's not overly standard, but can be found.

Elbows will be crushed / formed to the "oval" slot on the flange. Since the circumfrences match, there is a smooth transition from round to "slotted".
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:51 PM   #60
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Plenum volume (from everywhere I've read) has the least effect on performance. BUT I will tell you that the stock Subaru manifold is garbage related to this aspect (way, way too small). At about .8L it provides great engine response, but probably hurts power.

In general, more plenum volume is better up to point of diminishing returns. The plenum acts like a capacitor for air, ensuring that the cylinders aren't starved on the intake stroke. The problem on most cars with just having a huge plenum is that the Throttle body is usually before the plenum. This means there is a big lag between when the throttle is closed/opened and when the engine sees that air.

With ITBs, this problem is not an issue, as the throttles are after the plenum, so I went with a large plenum volume of 1.9L per side (3.8L total on 2.5L engine capacity). Hopefully this is enough because with my design here each side of the boxer engine has consecutive cylinders. So the passenger side (cyl 1 then 3) fire first, then the other side (cyl 2 / 4). This means there is a big, quick demand for air from the plenum on each side, then a lull when the other side fires.

The plenums must be big enough to provide this air on demand so I figure 1.9L plenum should be enough to supply 1.25L of engine capacity per side.
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