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11-06-2006, 12:52 AM | #21 | |
The [TST] Don
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Langhorne, PA
Member #3
My Ride: 07 Bugeye STi - 94 Supra iTrader: (6)
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Winter Project: V7 EJ207 Tear Down and Build Up Figured I might as well keep an ongoing documentation of my little winter project. I just picked up an EJ207 that was hydrolocked and have begun tearing it down to see what the damage is. I have done a ton of work on Subies, but never actually torn down an engine so I'm taking things slow and taking lots of photos, for my own benefit and for others who may be in a similar situation. I'm still unsure whether I want to stick with the 2.0 or go to a 2.5, but I'm honestly leaning toward an EJ257 with forged pistons to go with the EJ207 heads. I am really impressed with the GT30r, and feel its a great match for a daily driven 2.5L, but a bit much for the 2.0L. The debate goes on and on over which is the better platform, but personally I just think more displacement will be better for my needs. Its worth mentining that I will also be using an Aquamist 2D/DDS3 water injection kit with this setup, and most likely tuning with an Ecutek/UTEC combo. Anyway, on with the photos... Before starting, I either got the following items, or I should have gotten the following items: -A divider tray to label and store bolts that may not be going back onto the engine for a while. -A large flat pan, which fits under the entire engine stand. My oil pan will only fit on one side or the other, so catching drips has been an issue. The engine will drip... forever. -10mm allen socket to remove cam sprocket bolts, they require a good bit of leverage so the allen socket is the ideal way to go. -12mm, 12 point socket to remove the block bolts. -14mm, 12 point socket to remove head studs. -Long prybar to hold crank in place, and for general all purpose. -1 1/8" wrench to hold cams while removing cam gear bolts -14mm allen socket to remove access covers to get to wrist pins (or a 14mm bolt with 2 nuts locked onto each other, discussed below) -I will continue to add to this as I realize what else I wish I had. Full Photo Gallery (Updated 11/03/06): http://www.bryantroll.com/other/ej207/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saturday, Oct. 28th: Went to pick up motor, and then went to pick up engine stand. Contrary to popular belief, you CAN pick up a Subaru longblock with 2 people. I wouldnt want to carry it very far, but to lift it out of a van and then lift it up to an engine stand was really no problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sunday Oct. 29th: Took off clutch and flywheel. Picked up bolts to put the engine on the stand and got that in place. The alternator and AC condensor had already been pulled, so I removed the power steering pump. Then I removed intake manifold, risers, and fuel rails all in one piece. Removed wiring harness that was underneath. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Monday, Oct. 30th: Pulled off coolant crossover pipe and coolant and oil lines running across the top of the motor. The exhaust manifold had already been removed, so I pulled off the engine mounts, and then took off the oil pan. The oil fill tube is bolted onto the top of the motor with one bolt, and then held in to the oil pan by two o-rings and took a bit of force to wiggle out, but it did pop out. I used a flathead screwdriver and tapped it under the lip of the oil pan, and worked my way around until it was free. Took the baffle and oil pickup off to reveal the crank, rods, etc. Actually also pulled off one of the valve covers to check it out inside, but then put it back on to save for later. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, Oct. 31st: Used a breaker bar to take off the crank pulley bolt (22mm). See photos to see how I held the flywheel side of the crank in place. I removed the timing belt cover and removed two of the camshaft sprockets before calling it a night. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thursday, Nov. 2nd: well i got 3 of the cam gears off just by holding the flywheel in place, one was jumping teeth though so i stopped. the cam does in fact have a hex shape toward the front just inside of the head behind where the cam gear is basically. its big, like a 24mm or something. seems like the only way to break it loose... not surprised there's a specific tool for it but if i cant get one then hopefully a normal wrench is ok. not using any pliers anywhere though, haha. here are some highlights from today... took all the pulleys off except for the drivers side intake cam gear... the timing belt wouldnt hold it in place. ended up pulling off the passenger side head completely, and to my untrained eye i see nothing out of the ordinary so far. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, Nov 3rd: I used a 1 1/8" open ended wrench to hold the cams while loosening the cam gear bolts. The price/use ratio on that thing for its lifetime is currently at $23/1, sweet. now, i got the 14mm hex covers out of the front of the engine, and i havent been able to grab onto the wrist pins... are we fans of pulling them out with something that can catch the back lip from the front side, or punching through from the opposite side? i'll tell you now I need a better phillips head screwdriver to get the plates off of the backside before i do much of anything though... who puts screws on a motor? wtf. anyway if anyone local has a tool to use or is a pro at getting the wrist pins i'll love you long time. and to clarify these are the newer style wrist pins which have a small inner diameter and a taper out to the outer diameter so there's really not much of a lip to grab onto at all, unfortunately. this is my little organizer. it was $5 at Lowes and i'm going back tomorrow to get 2 more. you should get one too, and write yourself little notes on what everythign is. this is the 1 1/8" wrench on the hex shaped area of the cam... worked like a charm to hold it in place. this is what to do if you dont have a 14mm allen key... use a 14mm bolt and two nuts locked down on each other. stick head of bolt into 14mm allen key and put wrench on the inside nut and turn counter clockwise. ta da. and this is how close i am to having the whole thing torn down. hopefully tomorrow i'll be able to get the wrist pins and pistons out, and split the block once and for all. i do have the water and oil pumps off now, by the way.
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11-06-2006, 12:55 AM | #22 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Richboro
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My Ride: '68 Kaiser M715/ '37 Ford truck/'47 Dodge truck iTrader: (0)
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So, umm, when are we putting that thing in??
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11-06-2006, 01:04 AM | #23 | |
The [TST] Don
Admin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Langhorne, PA
Member #3
My Ride: 07 Bugeye STi - 94 Supra iTrader: (6)
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Its not totally apart yet . The wrist pins are still stuck in and keeping me from moving forward. I need the proper tool to get them out so I may break down this week and bring the block to the dealer to have a tech spend 10 minutes pulling the 4 wrist pins out with the specialty tool. After that the pistons come out, then I split the block (easier said then done) and then separate the rods from the crank. I expect there will be some damage inside the block, but what exactly I don't know.
I am anxious to tear it down and see what I've got here but the rebuild wont be quite as urgent. As I said above I havent yet decided what shortblock I will be using, and some other things are still a bit in the air as well. Whatever I do will be taken to a machine shop to have everything looked over and balanced. I'm just giving a rough ETA of late winter or early spring for it to be in the car.
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11-06-2006, 01:11 AM | #24 |
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Nice work. Props on all the attention to detail and not working like a total pig (like I see alot of people do unfortunately).
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11-06-2006, 01:16 AM | #25 |
TST Ruined My Life!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Warrington
Member #1614
My Ride: 1998 Acura Integra LS//VTEC iTrader: (0)
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Brian if you want any help with that bad bitch...lemme know man.
Good time on Saturday...hopefully again sometime.
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11-06-2006, 01:23 AM | #26 | |
The [TST] Don
Admin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Langhorne, PA
Member #3
My Ride: 07 Bugeye STi - 94 Supra iTrader: (6)
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Well lets see... the only 'messup' so far is I tried to keep track of each bucket's original spot but I lost track because I was trying to do 2 things at once. From what I'm told this will make resetting the lash more difficult, something I had no idea about.
The other close call was taking out the head bolts... intuition (and anthony) told me to work from the middle out and barely break all of them loose first before taking any out so luckily that was the proper way. Only other thing was marking the cam gears before pulling them off... I checked with a couple people and they said since i have to take it all apart anyway there's no need to mark them, others have said it might not have been a bad idea. All in all though things have gone really well. I L-O-V-E working on a project that doesnt need to be driven the next morning. I do like keeping things clean and taking it slow to make sure everything is done properly and not having a hard looming deadline really makes the whole process more enjoyable. Thanks for the props highmile... means a lot coming from a pro
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11-06-2006, 09:40 AM | #28 |
TST Ruined My Life!
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Good luck man, I hope to tear an engine down some day.
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11-06-2006, 11:25 AM | #29 |
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Wow, I had no idea you had stepped up to this level of wrenching, very cool. Pictures like this are awesome! Keep updating like this, it's interesting, something most Subaru owners can hope to be able to do themselves some day.
Agreed, when it's not as urgent to get it back together it's so much less stressful and you can take your time.
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11-06-2006, 11:33 AM | #30 |
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I say go for the 2.0L and a GT30 - the v7 is more than enough to spool a GT30 and keep you in boost for a long time
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11-06-2006, 11:38 AM | #31 | |
TST Ruined My Life!
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yes but the 2.5 will spool even better, make more overall torque and will in the end be a better block.
we dont play games chris, the starters of TST need to set an example for the rest of you. And that is that building your own motors for high HP is cool.
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11-06-2006, 12:00 PM | #32 |
Tri-State Post Whore
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Thats true - I say go all out then, get an EJ257 all forged internals, fully decked, re-sleeved, throw 30 PSI at it and call it a day
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11-06-2006, 12:15 PM | #33 | |
The [TST] Don
Admin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Langhorne, PA
Member #3
My Ride: 07 Bugeye STi - 94 Supra iTrader: (6)
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Some quick comparisons by my estimation... (207 is the JDM STi 2.0L and the 257 is the USDM STi 2.5L)
-Using the 207 shortblock the car will hit say 400-425 whp and 325 ft lbs of torque. Using the 257 shortblock the car will hit say 400-425 whp and 400 ft lbs of torque, and will have an overall much broader torque curve which starts a lot earlier. I hate to throw out numbers so early in the game so keep in mind those are just really rough guesses just to illustrate the difference in hp and torque. -To make that power the 207 would be at 26+ psi, whereas the 257 would be at 23-24 psi most likely. -The 207 will spool the turbo by about 4500-4750 rpm and will spin to 8250 (but probably will only make power to 7500-7750 without aftermarket cams. The 257 will spool the turbo by 3600-3800 rpm and will spin to and make power until 7250-7500 after being balanced. -The 207 would still probably get a decent 20-22 mpg around town if I was light on the throttle whereas the 257 will probably get 16-18 mpg. I'm planning to add forged pistons to the 257 but that is all that should be necessary for my needs. Cost difference on either would depend on what I find inside of the 207 but should be relatively close all said and done. The 207 is a totally sick motor for guys who want big power and when combined with a big turbo its great for drag racing and its ok for getting around town. The 257 is also a great motor though especially with forged pistons and has a ton of potential all while spooling a turbo like a GT30r very well. I never was much of a drag racer and always favored early spool and the overall powerband, and I do drive my car daily around town so these are the reasons I am swaying towards more displacement on this one. 207 owners swear by their 207s and say they are incredibly smooth revving motors, but I think after balancing the 257 will be just about the same.
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11-06-2006, 12:19 PM | #34 | |
TST Ruined My Life!
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Boy do I have work to do this winter.
The game has been stepped up. Damn, Troll!
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11-06-2006, 12:41 PM | #35 | |
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Quote:
Go.
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11-06-2006, 01:12 PM | #36 | ||
TST Ruined My Life!
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Quote:
you dont even know son. your car is gona be "slow"
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11-06-2006, 01:19 PM | #37 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Member #2558
My Ride: 1994 mitsubishi VR4 (twin 16Gs), 1991 eagle talon tsi (hx35) iTrader: (2)
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wow ive always wanted too see what a WRX engine looked like apart. and on a stand and ****. it looks soo much different than any engine ive worked on. im in the process of tearing apart my bros VR-4 engine, cause the tbelt jumped.
oh yea those cams, are soooooooooooooooooooo.....CUTE!!! hahhah good luck with the build man. alex
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01-13-2007, 04:38 AM | #38 | |
The [TST] Don
Admin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Langhorne, PA
Member #3
My Ride: 07 Bugeye STi - 94 Supra iTrader: (6)
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I forgot to finish up the info on the teardown... woops. Anyway, here it is. Unfortunately things have been sitting for a while now as I gather the parts for the new setup. I keep pushing things farther and farther and the new setup is going to be really sweet, so I'll post more info on that in the near future. Anyway, on with the post from when I finished the original teardown...
11/9/06: OK after a short hiatus I was back in the garage last night, and after a long night got the block apart completely. Diagnosis: spun rod bearing. Its a shame, but its what I expected and for the price I paid for the block I more than made out for just the heads alone. What I figured out about the wrist pins is you dont want to line them up with the access holes exactly. You want to get them just very slightly off center so that the pin still barely has room to slide out of the access hole but so that on the other side the rod moves out of the way just enough to slide a nice long thin screwdriver through and tap the wrist pin out. When things are lined up perfectly it doesnt work because the rod is front and center, and completely in the way of feeding the screwdriver through to the other side. I took a photo of the way I had mine oriented and the amount of clearance it gave me... not much, but enough to tap the pins out from the opposite side. After that I carefully pulled out the block bolts (dont forget about the one on the underside, the one on bottom of the bellhousing, and the one on the bottom in the front). We used a putty knife and a thin flathead screwdriver to work out way around the entire seal of the block and it took a little time but all in all was pretty cooperative in separating. As always, see ALL the photos at www.bryantroll.com/other/ej207 I'm only posting a handful here so check for more detail shots and others at the link. Some photos of the highlights of the day, with a couple questions: the drivers front and passenger front rods were stiff enough on the crank that they stuck in place. i could move them with my hand easily enough but they were not loose enough to fall down under their own weight. is that normal? neither of these were the cylinders with the spun bearing although there was some buildup on each of the bearings it looked like. 'stuck in position' on left, free moving on right: buildup: my mentally unstable master mechanic right hand man splitting the block with a putty knife and hammer (at 2am, wow loud banging!) houston, we have lift off never seen one before, but if i had to guess what a spun bearing looked like... crank where the bearing spun. feels smooth, but looks a little different... bottom is where the bearing spun victory is mine
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01-13-2007, 08:47 AM | #39 |
Tri-State Post Whore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Richboro
Member #543
My Ride: '68 Kaiser M715/ '37 Ford truck/'47 Dodge truck iTrader: (0)
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Get that thing running, would ya. This build-up should have been completed weeks ago...and your assistant looks a little shady. Keep an eye on him.
Looks good Bryan!
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2012 Honda Accord Touring 1968 Kaiser M715 FrankenJeep 1947 Dodge 1.5 Ton Resto-mod 1937 Ford pick-up 1950 Crosley Farm-o-Road |
01-13-2007, 12:37 PM | #40 |
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thats pretty sick, cant wait to see it go in, and if you need any help, im just like half a second away.
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