Creation vs Evolution

[05GT]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

proof?

Research. I don't have the time to sit here and bring up articles where Archaeologists have uncovered artifacts that have proven things that were foretold in the Bible.

And if I did, would it change your mind, or is your one worded reply "proof" a simple response to continue the arguement that one side or the other needs "proof" more so then the other?

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by 05GT

Research. I don't have the time to sit here and bring up articles where Archaeologists have uncovered artifacts that have proven things that were foretold in the Bible.

And if I did, would it change your mind, or is your one worded reply "proof" a simple response to continue the arguement that one side or the other needs "proof" more so then the other?

no, I'm actually interested in reading about it. But not enough so that I'm going to go looking for it during the work day. I just figured if someone can bring up a point, they'd know where to find more information on it pretty quickly...

[05GT]

Originally Posted by KingOfDelco

Obviously, the creation story (adam & eve) is BS, because if we all originated from 2 people, we would all be horribly in-bred and most likly highly retarded. Evolutionary theories seem to be much more credible/sensible/believable.

No, we wouldn't all be horribly inbred or retarded. If you believe we were created, then you would also believe the rest of it. That being that we were created PERFECT in the beginning. Therefore, things like inbred diseases and imperfections we have now wouldn't have existed then.

[OptiCon]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

no, I'm actually interested in reading about it.

Just do yourself a favor. When one person tells you the Bible has been DISproven... ask for the same.

Proof.

[KingOfDelco]

its like, if God decided it was time to send jesus down to earth, and he is supposedly coming back... what the hell is taking so long? He just randomly appears 2000 years ago--when there wasn't really much $**t goin down to worry about..... but now that the world is ALL F'd up, they are nowhere to be found??? that just doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't anyone else ever get the idea that Jesus may have just been similar to these "Miracle-working Southern Preachers", the ones that have services in big tents in Tennesee and all the people in the county come to be "cured" of their ailments/diseases/etc?? That just shows how GULLIBLE people who WANT/NEED to believe in something can be..... and if Educated people today are THAT gullible, imagine what the DUMB Ignorant people in Jerusalem 2000 years ago were like....

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by OptiCon

Arrogant Ignorance can be terrifying.

either way, at least he's no longer professing his belief in god simply as an act to possibly, maybe, divert said god's retribution upon him.

Believing for the sake of fear is no belief... especially when you don't truly believe but are unwilling to say so in case someone 'above" is listening...

which never made sense, because if god does exist then it would already be able to perceive it's creations thoughts and beliefs. So if there is a god, and you do not believe and you are unwilling to say so... this god already knows.

and since there are only but a few sin's that are unforgivable, when you are standing outside those pearly white gates you will be able to make reprimands and your misconceptions of god's existence will be forgiven

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by OptiCon

Just do yourself a favor. When one person tells you the Bible has been DISproven... ask for the same.

Proof.

this isn't about whether or not the bible is true or false... I'm just interested in reading about these ancient artifacts...

[KingOfDelco]

Originally Posted by 05GT

No, we wouldn't all be horribly inbred or retarded. If you believe we were created, then you would also believe the rest of it. That being that we were created PERFECT in the beginning. Therefore, things like inbred diseases and imperfections we have now wouldn't have existed then.

please excuse my bluntness in advance, but this is the most moronic comment i've ever heard.

You are justifying your belief with an unjustified belief.... Didn't u pay attention in school (specifically science class)? People didn't just SHOW UP on earth one day in our present form.... there was Homo Erectis, and other Homonids before that... aka. Cavemen--all hairy and ape-like.

so, were Adam and Eve Cavemen, or regular Homo Sapiens like we are???

Yeah, and if you are racist, you believe that your race is superior to others....which we all know isn't true... but people believed that (and still do some places) for MANY years.... believing in something doesn't make it true.

So, God created ADam and Eve PERFECT? yet, they still ate the forbidden fruit.... So i guess thats when God invented diseases and imperfections??? Cain/Able also killed their brother... is THAT PERFECTION???? Thats the same thing people do today....

seems a bit fishy to me...

[sisforsurfing]

Originally Posted by KingOfDelco

its like, if God decided it was time to send jesus down to earth, and he is supposedly coming back... what the hell is taking so long? He just randomly appears 2000 years ago--when there wasn't really much $**t goin down to worry about..... but now that the world is ALL F'd up, they are nowhere to be found??? that just doesn't make sense to me.

Sure, we've got our problems, but the Roman empire wasn't exactly a period where all the poor people had food to eat and everyone held hands. 2,000 years is nothing.

Screw it though. Deep down, I now believe that Scapegoat is our creator. How else could someone be so full of judgment if they weren't our creator incarnate?
but seriously, google took ten seconds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

[OptiCon]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

either way, at least he's no longer professing his belief in god simply as an act to possibly, maybe, divert said god's retribution upon him.

Believing for the sake of fear is no belief... especially when you don't truly believe but are unwilling to say so in case someone 'above" is listening...

These all sound like problems in mental clarity and the result of conditioning. Yes, people can and are opressed by religions. That does mean a religions is opressive. It means some idiot used it to screw with your head.

I agree. Believing in fear is NOT understanding a religion.

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by KingOfDelco

.
So, God created ADam and Eve PERFECT? yet, they still ate the forbidden fruit.... So i guess thats when God invented diseases and imperfections??? Cain/Able also killed their brother... is THAT PERFECTION???? Thats the same thing people do today....

seems a bit fishy to me...

God created adam and eve with free thought.....he told them they couldnt eat from the tree....eve did...thus creating imperfection in man.

[Spocknasty]

I remember watching this interesting show on TV a loooong time ago. There is a belief system that extra terrestrials created, watch over, and sometimes intervene with humans. They spoke of how ancient monuments were built and religious texts were created around the effects of terrestrial involvement. Naturally talk of the government knowing and collaborating with extraterrestrials was brought up. It all came off as very plausible. I'll have to find it....

[Spocknasty]

Originally Posted by SpEcRv9

God created adam and eve with free thought.....he told them they couldnt eat from the tree....eve did...thus creating imperfection in man.

Think. The fact that she did so suggests we were not perfect to begin with.

[KingOfDelco]

watch zeitgeistmovie... it details how Christianity lifted basically all of its primary belief structure from other ancient pre-modern era civilizations and religions.... All religions at first were tied into the Sun, stars and seasons...because thats all the people knew. The sun rose in the morning ("God" shining light on the people) and set at night (evil, darkness, etc..) Dec 22. is the shortest day of the year, when the sun is at its lowest point during the day... it is there for 3 days, and then begins to ascend (The Sun is Resurrected" on the 25th.... sound familiar??? Just watch the movie. Google it.

I am also fascinated by ancient civilizations and religions in the mediterranean region pre- 0 AD. Never underestimate how ignorant and simplistic the people were back then... every time there was a natural disaster (tsunami, volcano, etc...) they thought it was God sending them a message.

[KingOfDelco]

Originally Posted by sisforsurfing

but seriously, google took ten seconds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

what do the dead sea scrolls have to do with the discussion at hand?

ironically, i read that exact wiki page about a month ago, when I got the urge to research the scrolls online... they don't really say anything different than previous scriptures and teh bible... they prove nothing.

[KingOfDelco]

Originally Posted by CRXed

Think. The fact that she did so suggests we were not perfect to begin with.

BRILLIANT! +1

[OptiCon]

Originally Posted by KingOfDelco

watch zeitgeistmovie...

I have. I was intruiged by the ideas, though not entirely convinced it was all true. I also did not dismiss the notion that the connection between astrological happenings to Biblical prophecy works both ways.

Interesting at the very least.

EDIT: Although incredibly biased and based in conspiracy...

Originally Posted by wiki

A feature article in The Stranger has stated the film is based solely on anecdotal evidence,[11] while others have criticized it for using unidentified, undated, and unsourced video news clips, voice-overs, quotes, and book citations without page numbers.[12][13][14] In a piece entitled "Internet idiocy: the latest pandemic", an opinion piece in the Arizona Daily Wildcat refers to the film as "internet bull****", saying that "witty sayings, fear tactics and a cool, assertive air all enable them to convince the unwitting public of their points"[15] while another in the Irish Times called it "unhinged" and accused it of offering nothing but "surreal perversions of genuine issues and debates."[6]

In the The Gauntlet, Jordyn Marcellus wrote it was ironic that the film's viewers "have blindly followed the documentary without doing their own research." He states that, though the film is "well-edited and is truly compelling", it "glosses over inconvenient facts," uses "deceptive filmmaking" and that "for a film that rails against deception, there's a lot of deception implicit in its creation."[14]

On March 10, 2008, director Peter Joseph removed the "Clarifications" section from the film's official site, a section which The Gauntlet believed "alluded to dishonest filmmaking tactics that would otherwise help to discredit the film." It was replaced by a Q&A Section that "attempts to smack down" the film's critics.[14]

[05GT]

Originally Posted by KingOfDelco

please excuse my bluntness in advance, but this is the most moronic comment i've ever heard.

You are justifying your belief with an unjustified belief.... Didn't u pay attention in school (specifically science class)? People didn't just SHOW UP on earth one day in our present form.... there was Homo Erectis, and other Homonids before that... aka. Cavemen--all hairy and ape-like.

so, were Adam and Eve Cavemen, or regular Homo Sapiens like we are???

Yeah, and if you are racist, you believe that your race is superior to others....which we all know isn't true... but people believed that (and still do some places) for MANY years.... believing in something doesn't make it true.

So, God created ADam and Eve PERFECT? yet, they still ate the forbidden fruit.... So i guess thats when God invented diseases and imperfections??? Cain/Able also killed their brother... is THAT PERFECTION???? Thats the same thing people do today....

seems a bit fishy to me...

Be blunt all you want.

But you still missed the whole thing. People like you don't seem to want to get it all, just pieces.

There were humans from the beginning. I didn't disprove anything.

Adam and Eve were created perfect HUMANS, with free will and thought. They were given the ability to make their own decisions. As it continues, when God created the angels, also with FREE WILL, one decided to go against him, wanting the power for himself, and told Eve a lie, putting disbelief in her mind.

At that moment, humans began their decent into the imperfections we have now.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by OptiCon

These all sound like problems in mental clarity and the result of conditioning. Yes, people can and are opressed by religions. That does mean a religions is opressive. It means some idiot used it to screw with your head.

I agree. Believing in fear is NOT understanding a religion.

I did not say religion is oppressive... however, people take it too far... and people clearly don't take it serious enough when they do "believe"

both are at fault for giving religion a bad name. I have nothing against it, unless someone is running into either end of that spectrum.

I respect people that believe, for themselves... not for everyone else.

One side of my family is greatly religious... they are fantastic, albeit sometimes weird, people. I have no issues saying grace with them during dinner, or going to church with them.

For myself, I don't believe. Religion was never made to be a point in my life, so it never has.

But I do enjoy discussions on the subject with people that are capable of having one though...

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by CRXed

Think. The fact that she did so suggests we were not perfect to begin with.

true, but we're all taking these stories we read in the bible and interpreting them differently picking apart certian things that dont make 100% sense...

I interpret it as God created them equal (as a perfect person, BUT with the ability to free will and thought) if Adam and Eve were just created especially Eve out of a rib no-less, they would know nothing of life or anything at all. Then God throws them into temptation with the ability to make their own decisions (no **** one of them would screw up) it just so happened it was Eve, creating original imperfection in man...then it just began to advance to the imperfections we have today.

EDIT: but then again to make a final decision...theres so much more to think about when it comes to this debate then this one story...so im not basing my belief or non belief in God on this one story

05gt explained it alot more simple then me lol.