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Old 10-25-2010, 07:34 PM   #1
1000whpTSi
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Valve cover breather question

I was thinking of running the valve cover lines into the downpipe,hopefully creating a scavenging or vac effect. I've used this method before on different configuration engines before to help seat the rings but not on the 4G63. Has anyone else used this method. I've seen a few Magnus cars setup this way,but I had a few questions to ask about it.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:42 PM   #2
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Would work the same as routing it through a catch can (w/ baffle) into your intake. I see no reason it wouldn't give you the desired effect.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:16 PM   #3
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What is the benefit or doing this over a catch can? Also sorry to piggy back but since its on DSM's is it necessary to have a breather can or will a typical catch can without a breather filter be fine?
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:20 PM   #4
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A regular catch can isn't really working well unless it's hooked up to the intake pipe...as it came from the factory. All it's doing is catch oil pushed out due to crank case pressure. Hooking it up to intake or exhaust actually sucks it out and doesn't allow it to build up.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11secdsm View Post
A regular catch can isn't really working well unless it's hooked up to the intake pipe...as it came from the factory. All it's doing is catch oil pushed out due to crank case pressure. Hooking it up to intake or exhaust actually sucks it out and doesn't allow it to build up.
So having a breather can would be a better idea?
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:30 PM   #6
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Baffled catch can hooked up your intake pipe would be the better idea.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:49 PM   #7
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I have my lines from cam/valve covers going to a catch can and then the catch can vented into the downpipe through a Moroso check valve made for that. I've heard mixed reviews about how long the check valves will last, but those seemed to be from people who put them up high on the downpipe near the turbo exit where it is quite a bit hotter than mine a few feet downstream. After hooking it up we put a vacuum gauge in the line running to the catch can and it showed a quite substantial vacuum being pulled even at idle. I have a bunch of better pics at home, but this is the same idea on someone else's car:




This is an installation up near the turbo exhaust where I think there might be too much heat for the check valves:

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Old 10-26-2010, 09:07 PM   #8
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I've heard you can gain a few HP by putting the crank case breather under vacuum.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Honduh View Post
I've heard you can gain a few HP by putting the crank case breather under vacuum.
I've always done it on my super stock/ Elim cars. Mine have always been about 6-8 inches from the tip of the exhaust.

Thanks Nick 95 6sp. Thats what I was looking for.

Yeah,it also aids in seating the rings on a new motor. Some of the Chevy guys I know use vac pumps.

Thanks fellas
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:31 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by 11secdsm View Post
Baffled catch can hooked up your intake pipe would be the better idea.
I had a setup like that. I drew oil into the piping and I've never liked using it that way since. It's a very simple method which sometimes fails.

Plus nothing aside from a vac pump is going to help seat the rings like having the lines connect to the exhaust. The vac effect that it causes really does do a better job at seating the rings.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:40 AM   #11
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:07 AM   #12
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not a bad idea but i would put them on the other side away from the tire. But I'm sure you have all ready thought of that.
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:45 AM   #13
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not a bad idea but i would put them on the other side away from the tire. But I'm sure you have all ready thought of that.
Yeah,definately. I just meant it would be about that far down the downpipe. I've heard they work best closer to the tip.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:34 PM   #14
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With the amount of boost pressure you're going to run you really don't *need* to do that. It really has more of an affect with N/A setups, due to them not having any kind of force that's actually going to help remove the extra crankcase pressure.

Remember, if the catch can is well vented the pressure will be drawn to it because it's a low pressure area.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:38 AM   #15
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A negative crank pressure will actually have a positive effect on any car, it lets the piston rings have a better seal in the bore.
The exhaust scavenging effect from a N/A car is more than enough to pull a moderate vacuum on alot of engine combos.
However, due to the heat energy and velocity loss of the airflow post turbo, the exhaust scavenging of a turbo car is not nearly as effective as a N/A motor.
The best thing to use on a turbo motor to achieve a negative crank pressure would either be a intake vacuum generator(fitting type) with a catch can, or a vacuum pump setup.
From what i've been reading on dsmtuners and the like, the custom catch can setup that one of the members builds over there is a real winner.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:16 AM   #16
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can someone explain to me how an exhaust system with air being forced into it will create vacuum? as far as i knew exhaust systems were under slight pressure, not vacuum. or is it similar to a carburetor effect?
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:27 AM   #17
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can someone explain to me how an exhaust system with air being forced into it will create vacuum? as far as i knew exhaust systems were under slight pressure, not vacuum. or is it similar to a carburetor effect?
i believe it works because of bernoullis principle. the velocity of the gas (fluid) flowing through the pipe will cause low pressure where the fitting is, aka creating vacuum. the faster the exhaust velocity, the greater the vacuum. exactly like a carburetor.

i think you are getting confused because exhaust systems would certainly be under pressure if you block the flow. but once the gas is flowing through it without any obstructions, it will be like water flowing through a pipe, or like gasoline through a siphon more practically.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:40 AM   #18
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A negative crank pressure will actually have a positive effect on any car, it lets the piston rings have a better seal in the bore.
The exhaust scavenging effect from a N/A car is more than enough to pull a moderate vacuum on alot of engine combos.
However, due to the heat energy and velocity loss of the airflow post turbo, the exhaust scavenging of a turbo car is not nearly as effective as a N/A motor.
The best thing to use on a turbo motor to achieve a negative crank pressure would either be a intake vacuum generator(fitting type) with a catch can, or a vacuum pump setup.
From what i've been reading on dsmtuners and the like, the custom catch can setup that one of the members builds over there is a real winner.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner folks. lol
Yeah,thats what I was getting at. They help seat the rings quicker. I think I wrote that in my first post. But anyway,I started running double plasma rings with a breather routed into the collector about 2-3 inches from the outlet. This always seemed to help help seat the rings.

I've got a custom catch can setup that I fabricated last year. And I think I know who your talking about on Tuners. I just can't stand buying things that I can make myself.
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