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Old 11-14-2007, 06:24 PM   #1
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Discuss Gun Laws (..in light of recent events)

I heard the most stupid thing on the news yesterday, and just couldn't believe what I was hearing. They are saying this...

"THERE SHOULD BE A LAW WHERE YOU GET 20 YEARS FOR SHOOTING AT A COP."


Now honestly, as a society, where the **** did we go wrong???? Why would they even try passing a law where shooting at an officer gets you 20 years automatically, but murdering someone in cold blood gets you 6, out in 2 years. It's the most screwed up logic that I have ever heard. So now we will have maybe 2 less police shootings in Philly (because they are shooting at the police to kill them, they don't care about prison sentence anyway) , and there will still be 250 murders by shooting each year, because everyone knows that they will be out in a couple years anyway if caught.

Why would they not make the law 20 years for shooting at ANYONE (unless, obviously, self defense)?? IF they passed a law where it was a min. of 20 years for shooting at someone, there would probably be 1/3 of the murders there are right now. I know that's not perfect, but it is quite the improvement.



So here are my proposed laws to go along with gun laws...I'll list the gun laws first...


You have 72 hours to report a stolen firearm. If done so past the deadline, you have just committed a felony (unless circumstances such as vacation). If someone doesn't report a firearm stolen, they are either nuts or stupid. Either way, the felony means that they won't be purchasing any more guns. I know that if any of my guns were stolen, the first thing I would do is report them. It's literally stupid to not report it, as your gun can now be used in a crime. It's got your prints all over it, and possibly a paper trail ;) .

If a gun is stolen from your property, and it was not locked up, you have just committed a felony. You lose your guns and lose the right to buy them in the future, because you are too stupid to own one in the first place.


If you buy a firearm for someone who can not legally purchase a firearm, you get 5 years in prison, fines, and also have just committed a felony. This means, no more straw purchases for you.


That's all for the gun laws. No reduced sentences. No probation. Just the min. required jail time. Prosecutors, feel free to tack on more time.


Now for laws that go along with guns....


20 years min. for shooting at ANYONE (NOT JUST A COP, THAT'S RETARDED). 20 years min. means 20 years min. Not a day less.


Life/death sentence if you kill someone. That's life/death sentence, not 2 years and parole. Not 6 years. Not 88 years. It's your life, whether it's stuck in the jail cell, or burning in hell.


Now I know people are going to stress over the lax. gun laws, and wanted to make a preemptive thread. The guns laws are NOT lax. The gun laws are strict, and on paper, carved in stone (theoretically). The laws that go along with crimes committed with guns are strict laws. The problem is, they are not enforced. You can add all of the laws that you want, but if at the end of the day, you give some savage 2 years for murdering a poor kid caught in the crossfire, people are going to continue to kill others. If you listened to the reports, 85% of the shootings were committed by felons. This means that 85% of the shootings happened with people who did not legally purchase guns. Making more gun control laws will do nothing. Enforcing the current laws, and making them stricter will do something (well, more than just writing more laws down on paper).



I have also heard that people can only buy 1 gun per month. That's 12 guns per year. I know people who buy about 15 guns per year, and haven't shot at anyone, nor do they give their guns away. It's a retarded law, that will only effect true hobbyists. I would like to see statistics/numbers/records of people with "straw purchases" that buy this many guns/year.


Your thoughts and what should be gun laws and what should not?
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:47 PM   #2
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I don't own a gun and probably never will....but i think there should be paperwork like a title and regulations but definately no bans...then the only ones with guns would be the criminals. LOL I love it when they want to make it all this time for shooting at a cop...shouldn't matter... a life is a life whether its a cop or other person and should be punished accordingly. 20 years from now we will have no freedoms in this country.
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:49 PM   #3
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im almost positive in nj if u have a gun stolen from ur house u get in trouble for not keepin it locked up, or something

if 85 percent of murders are by felons, that means gun laws shouldnt change, that way more good guys have guns, to stop the bad guys.

if guns are illegal only the bad guys will have them, leaving the good guys defenseless

edit- there is paperwork and background checks for all handguns.
rifles and shotguns are less strict, but most criminals dont bother with rifles and such.
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:51 PM   #4
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i completely agree with you on all points!

we need to put the fear of god into these scumbags shooting people. its absolutely rediculous that killing a cop should land you more jail time than any other human being. throw them in jail and lock away the key, society as a whole would be better off. they need to give them weapons in prison so they can off one another to bring down the prison population.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:09 PM   #5
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i have a question about your locked up gun law..say your gun got stolen from your house and your house was locked. does that count? thats private property where the firearm is technichally "locked". if its hidden somewhere in your house thats locked would that count? or are you talking strictly of a gun safe? i dont mean to ruffle any feathers, im just curious because these questions will most certainly be raised.

I personally do not own a gun so I'm not exactly sure what the perameters are to obtaining a weapon legally, but it doesnt seem too hard to do. that said, im not sure how they would make it any harder. ie, they already perform background checks correct? along with a valid license, birth certificate, etc.

My opinion is that most of the gun crime occurs when weapons are obtained illegally. if there was a way to prevent this then the solution would be much easier but unfortunately i dont think there is a surefire way to keep guns from being bought and sold illegally.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:26 PM   #6
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all of the above should be real laws, by all means. If your stupid enough to kill someone in anyway other then self defense you should be doing 20 to life if not take the death penalty.

/end
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:33 PM   #7
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I would say that teh gun should have to be in your home, your home locked, and the gun not in plain sight. IE : in some form of cabinet or chest. I also dont think mandatory trigger/chamber locks are a bad idea, they're not terribly hard to remove but atlast its time consuming.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:39 PM   #8
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The only thing I do not agree with is the lock up law. If I purchase a gun and want to leave it on my kitchen table that is my right. I should not have my rights limited because some criminal might break into my house. He is the criminal, not me.

Everything else I agree with but I would take them further. Prison would cease to be a resort compared to the days of old. I would make jails like the Jail in Arizona, tent cities. There would no longer be stores where criminals could buy outside goods. 3 meals a day, no tv, no magazines...nothing. I would allow a library and a GED program to allow those who wish to improve their lives to do so.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:43 PM   #9
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More laws won't do a thing. Also, it should never be mandatory to lock a gun in your own home. If someone breaks into my place, I sure don't want to be fumbling with some lock before I can blow the intruders head off.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:49 PM   #10
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Amen, adding gun laws won't do ****.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:12 PM   #11
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i agree with wrx_snowbrdr that maybe gun laws arent the problem and our jail systems are too lax. i think inmates have too many privileges and would be right along side when they decided to eliminate any luxuries. tv, entertainment, etc. start with jail and maybe gun crime will diminish
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:51 PM   #12
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poolmike and 97turbo, when I refer to locking up the gun, I mean locking up the gun.

A sufficient effort is locking up your home, and not putting them in plain view, OR, locking them up in a safe or room.

I carry a gun (CCW), and I sleep with a gun next to me (not locked up). BUT, when I am not carrying, or sleeping, my guns are always locked up. I go up to bed, unlock the safe, switch my carry gun to my home defense gun, and go to bed. When I wake up in the morning, I switch guns again, lock the safe, and I'm on my way.

I don't think that guns should be left out in the open, in plain view, unattended, however, it is the homeowners right. Therefore, as stated, locking your home, while is seems sufficient, isn't. Locking your home with guns out of site of windows, in a closet, in a gun safe, hidden somewhere, etc., is sufficient. In the end, I agree that it would be a hard law to make. Honestly, I don't know how I would word it. It's sounding like a worse and worse idea, though I'll continue to do it anyway.

EDIT: Dragonfly, well said!


GPZJACK,

The problem with registrations are really simple. If you look (factually) at other countries with gun registration laws, as a measure of gun control, within the decade, stricter laws were passed and all registered guns were collected and destroyed by the government, that is, all registered, LEGAL guns. The other problem with this is that it will not help to control violence, at all. Like I said, 85% of murders happen with illegal firearms. Registration would do nothing to lower the rates.


And about prison being to "easy". Some of those maximum security prisons are like country clubs compared to how the people are used to living! I agree completely!
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:33 AM   #13
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I don't see how strict gun penalities would help the current problem. I think we should put more focus on preventing the crime, not worrying about what we should do after a crime has been committed. If criminals were worried about penalties, no one would commit murder anymore. Murder has had the same penalty for hundreds of years. It's either the death penalty or life in prison, and yet murder hasn't stopped.

Building "tent city" creates a problem, because everybody forgets about "the other inmates". "The other inmates" are what correctional officers are called. If you put inmates in 100 degree weather, you are putting the CO's there too.

And for anybody who thinks prison is a country club, your wrong. I used to think the sameway, until I went to one. Their's nothing fun about prison, it's no country club, it's not a resort. It's hell, with a little food.
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by importpower99 View Post
And for anybody who thinks prison is a country club, your wrong. I used to think the sameway, until I went to one. Their's nothing fun about prison, it's no country club, it's not a resort. It's hell, with a little food.
and yet prisons are still overcrowded. if they were so bad, people would be doing whatever they could to stay out of them yet we are running out of prison space. that is neither here nor there since this is the gun law discussion thread but i wanted to voice my opinion on that matter. now back on topic.
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:02 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by importpower99 View Post
I don't see how strict gun penalities would help the current problem. I think we should put more focus on preventing the crime, not worrying about what we should do after a crime has been committed. If criminals were worried about penalties, no one would commit murder anymore. Murder has had the same penalty for hundreds of years. It's either the death penalty or life in prison, and yet murder hasn't stopped.

Building "tent city" creates a problem, because everybody forgets about "the other inmates". "The other inmates" are what correctional officers are called. If you put inmates in 100 degree weather, you are putting the CO's there too.

And for anybody who thinks prison is a country club, your wrong. I used to think the sameway, until I went to one. Their's nothing fun about prison, it's no country club, it's not a resort. It's hell, with a little food.
I was the one who said it was a country club and if you will notice I said compared to the old days. Meaning, the days when a jail was a hot, dirty concrete and dirt box with bread and water as food. I am sure they are no picnic, but its not supposed to be, ITS JAIL!

You say what about the CO, what about them? If we take away all the amenities for the prisoners that we are wasting money on I would have no problem increasing the pay to the CO's for making their job a bit hotter. I am sure they would be happy with a nice pay raise.

You can't focus on one issue. You need to focus on the whole picture. Better education of our youth, strictly enforcing the laws on the books, toughening up the prisons, just because some hard criminals do not think about the consequences other petty criminals do and this would make them think just a little bit harder.
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:37 AM   #16
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the sentence for murder is nearly never life in prison or the death penalty. Most people will get sentenced to 20, serve 14 and be done.
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:39 AM   #17
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Any kind of first degree murder is a class 1 felony and is punishable by death or life imprisonment. In Arizona, the trial jury decides whether the defendant has committed first degree murder. Then the judge holds a separate sentencing hearing to determine the proper sentence. A.R.S. § 13-703 outlines the various 'aggravating' and 'mitigating' factors that the judge must consider in reaching a decision about whether to impose the death penalty.

http://www.lawforkids.org/speakup/vi...ion.cfm?id=309
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:46 AM   #18
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if you are over 21 you should be required to own a gun, in my opinion.
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Old 11-15-2007, 03:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ITSTOCK View Post
poolmike and 97turbo, when I refer to locking up the gun, I mean locking up the gun.

A sufficient effort is locking up your home, and not putting them in plain view, OR, locking them up in a safe or room.

I carry a gun (CCW), and I sleep with a gun next to me (not locked up). BUT, when I am not carrying, or sleeping, my guns are always locked up. I go up to bed, unlock the safe, switch my carry gun to my home defense gun, and go to bed. When I wake up in the morning, I switch guns again, lock the safe, and I'm on my way.

I don't think that guns should be left out in the open, in plain view, unattended, however, it is the homeowners right. Therefore, as stated, locking your home, while is seems sufficient, isn't. Locking your home with guns out of site of windows, in a closet, in a gun safe, hidden somewhere, etc., is sufficient. In the end, I agree that it would be a hard law to make. Honestly, I don't know how I would word it. It's sounding like a worse and worse idea, though I'll continue to do it anyway.

EDIT: Dragonfly, well said!


GPZJACK,

The problem with registrations are really simple. If you look (factually) at other countries with gun registration laws, as a measure of gun control, within the decade, stricter laws were passed and all registered guns were collected and destroyed by the government, that is, all registered, LEGAL guns. The other problem with this is that it will not help to control violence, at all. Like I said, 85% of murders happen with illegal firearms. Registration would do nothing to lower the rates.


And about prison being to "easy". Some of those maximum security prisons are like country clubs compared to how the people are used to living! I agree completely!
Word on the registration part. Making gun laws stricter for law abiding CCW carriers isn't going to reduce crime. If anything it will make Johnny Q. Public unable to defend himself.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by 97TurboDSM View Post
Any kind of first degree murder is a class 1 felony and is punishable by death or life imprisonment. In Arizona, the trial jury decides whether the defendant has committed first degree murder. Then the judge holds a separate sentencing hearing to determine the proper sentence. A.R.S. § 13-703 outlines the various 'aggravating' and 'mitigating' factors that the judge must consider in reaching a decision about whether to impose the death penalty.

http://www.lawforkids.org/speakup/vi...ion.cfm?id=309
Yes, that is how the law is written. We all already know this. Unfortunately, out here in the real world, a first degree murder isn't handed out when it should be, and deals are made.
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