Supreme Court upheld health care law...

[HatchSurfer3]

Originally Posted by Slevin

do people not realize because of this, the price of healthcare for everyone will decrease over time? do people not realize any single individual making up to 440% above the poverty line will get a rebate for healthcare? the penalty for not having health insurance the first year, 400 dollars or 1% of your income. the penalty for not having heath insurance the second year, 800 dollars or 2% of your income. the penalty for every year after that, 2.5% + price of inflation. compaines with 49 or more people will now have to offer health insurance plans for its workers. the amount of money insurance companies would spend on your actual coverage doubled from 40% to 80%. before companies would say they spent 60% on paperwork and other filing claims that weren't medically related to your state of health. why wouldn't you want health insurance to begin with? do you drive around without auto insurance? the fact that people can afford cell phone bills that rival prices of many health insurance plans boggles my mind. also anyone who calls this plan "obamacare" doesn't know what they are really talking about anyway. Romney introduced this plan in his state and it became one of the most successful plans for heath insurance in the country. [now he's against it because that's what he has to say to stay the presidential candidate for the republicans (a debate for another time)]. this plan is fantastic, and will only benefit the american society as a whole over time. to the people saying its unconstitutional, really? please tell me how unconstitutional the government is being by greatly increasing the quality of living for every person in the entire country. what right or freedom is being taken away from you? the freedom to decrease your quality of life? the freedom to deny preventable care? the freedom to constantly increase the price of healthcare for people that already have plans because you decided to not get insurance and go to the ER anyway.

It's not unconstitutional to promote healthy lifestyle for people. It's unconstitutional to force someone to buy a product. That's the point. That's why it was mandated as unconstitutional then rephrased as a tax. Also, as someone else said, your comparison to auto insurance is not correct at all.

I'm mainly pissed off at the way that this was put through because of semantics. Also, because now a lot of businesses will drop their current insurance plans because it is cheaper to pay the penalty for not providing the insurance and people will be forced to pay just as much, if not more, for coverage that is sub-par compared to what they had.

[jpalamar]

Aside from the right to buy what you want being taken away. There are tons of other issues that I think will rise from this.

1. Employers will likely find it cheaper to pay the penality rather then offer to insure(If I understand the law correctly, they pay the penalty for the employee but not the family memebers that would of also been insurerd). They are basically getting 3 people for the price of 1 off their books. As a result salaries will likely go up to stay 'competitive' but raises will likely be less then the rising rate of healthcare ultimately screwing the employees over.
2. Will employers just try to avoid penalitys and not paying for insurance by hiring 'contractors' or temp employees. This would kill careers and create high turnover rates?

[HatchSurfer3]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Aside from the right to buy what you want being taken away. There are tons of other issues that I think will rise from this.

1. Employers will likely find it cheaper to pay the penality rather then offer to insure(If I understand the law correctly, they pay the penalty for the employee but not the family memebers that would of also been insurerd). They are basically getting 3 people for the price of 1 off their books. As a result salaries will likely go up to stay 'competitive' but raises will likely be less then the rising rate of healthcare ultimately screwing the employees over.
2. Will employers just try to avoid penalitys and not paying for insurance by hiring 'contractors' or temp employees. This would kill careers and create high turnover rates?

Yea that's the point I was making. It screws people in more ways than one. Although many employers already only take on part time/contract employees to avoid offering benefits. This includes government agencies (PD's are a prime example). However, you're still right.

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by HatchSurfer3

It's not unconstitutional to promote healthy lifestyle for people. It's unconstitutional to force someone to buy a product. That's the point. That's why it was mandated as unconstitutional then rephrased as a tax. Also, as someone else said, your comparison to auto insurance is not correct at all.

I'm mainly pissed off at the way that this was put through because of semantics. Also, because now a lot of businesses will drop their current insurance plans because it is cheaper to pay the penalty for not providing the insurance and people will be forced to pay just as much, if not more, for coverage that is sub-par compared to what they had.

i didn't make a comparison to auto insurance. i only asked if you would drive around without auto insurance, that was it. reading > you.

the rest of you upset about this reform. reading > you as well. if you read anything about it, you wouldn't be upset. that is all

/end thread

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by Slevin

i didn't make a comparison to auto insurance. i only asked if you would drive around without auto insurance, that was it. reading > you.

the rest of you upset about this reform. reading > you as well. if you read anything about it, you wouldn't be upset. that is all

/end thread

Enlighten us.

[HatchSurfer3]

Originally Posted by Slevin

i didn't make a comparison to auto insurance. i only asked if you would drive around without auto insurance, that was it. reading > you.

the rest of you upset about this reform. reading > you as well. if you read anything about it, you wouldn't be upset. that is all

/end thread

If you weren't making a comparison why would you even make reference to auto insurance? Ohhh...ok since you have your opinion about it, it is automatically right and no one else can read? That's a fantastic way to view things. "Agree with me or you are unintelligent!" Cool story brah.

/end you're nonsense.

PS- this is why I got out of politics. People like you. It's their opinion and if people don't agree they're less intelligent. You don't debate, you insult and that's sad. You have your opinion and that's fine, but don't sit there and act like its better than anyone else's bud.

[HatchSurfer3]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Enlighten us.

He obviously cannot since he resulted to "reading>you" rather than making a legitimate point.

[grimm]

i also wonder how long it will be before this penalty tax, becomes a standard payment for everyone. You can't tell me that once the government gets a taste of this extra money rolling in it's not going to find a way to roll it out on all of us.

I'm sure that most small companies will ditch insuring their employees and pay the penalty, or offer to keep the coverage but lower their wages. Either way it's a lose lose situation for me. My company currently pays 100% of my insurance and now that is being threatened.

I'm sorry for the people that can't afford health insurance but your short comings should not affect my life in the free world.

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Enlighten us.

Originally Posted by HatchSurfer3

If you weren't making a comparison why would you even make reference to auto insurance? Ohhh...ok since you have your opinion about it, it is automatically right and no one else can read? That's a fantastic way to view things. "Agree with me or you are unintelligent!" Cool story brah.

/end you're nonsense.

PS- this is why I got out of politics. People like you. It's their opinion and if people don't agree they're less intelligent. You don't debate, you insult and that's sad. You have your opinion and that's fine, but don't sit there and act like its better than anyone else's bud.

Originally Posted by HatchSurfer3

He obviously cannot since he resulted to "reading>you" rather than making a legitimate point.

Originally Posted by Slevin

do people not realize because of this, the price of healthcare for everyone will decrease over time? do people not realize any single individual making up to 440% above the poverty line will get a rebate for healthcare? the penalty for not having health insurance the first year, 400 dollars or 1% of your income. the penalty for not having heath insurance the second year, 800 dollars or 2% of your income. the penalty for every year after that, 2.5% + price of inflation. compaines with 49 or more people will now have to offer health insurance plans for its workers. the amount of money insurance companies would spend on your actual coverage doubled from 40% to 80%. before companies would say they spent 60% on paperwork and other filing claims that weren't medically related to your state of health. why wouldn't you want health insurance to begin with? do you drive around without auto insurance? the fact that people can afford cell phone bills that rival prices of many health insurance plans boggles my mind. also anyone who calls this plan "obamacare" doesn't know what they are really talking about anyway. Romney introduced this plan in his state and it became one of the most successful plans for heath insurance in the country. [now he's against it because that's what he has to say to stay the presidential candidate for the republicans (a debate for another time)]. this plan is fantastic, and will only benefit the american society as a whole over time. to the people saying its unconstitutional, really? please tell me how unconstitutional the government is being by greatly increasing the quality of living for every person in the entire country. what right or freedom is being taken away from you? the freedom to decrease your quality of life? the freedom to deny preventable care? the freedom to constantly increase the price of healthcare for people that already have plans because you decided to not get insurance and go to the ER anyway.

like i said, reading > you. read what i originally posted again. i even quoted it for you in this post so you don't have to go back a page, which you obviously didn't do the first time

[Slevin]

now that one original legitimate point was posted in my previous comment, let me post another legitimate point to "enlighten" you once again. obviously this does nothing for you if you don't read it, so try not to miss this post as well.

imagine person A has no health insurance. person A starts feeling sick, but doesn't want to go to the hospital because they have no insurance. time goes on, person A gets more sick. eventually person A goes to hospital and finds out they have a disease that is close to terminal, and now needs an operation for 500,000 dollars to have a shot at living. the reason why healthcare is already so high is because of this exact situation. someone still has to pay for the 500,000 dollar operation, and its the people that already have healthcare that do.

now what if person A had healthcare. person A starts feeling sick. person A has a plan that covers preventable care, so they go to the hospital to get check out. person A learns that they have a disease, but is in he early stages of its development, and can be easily treated. person A has a operation costing 50,000 dollars.

with health insurance, person A had no reason not to go to the hospital. because of that, they just saved the hospital and people that already have insurance a 450,000 dollar expense. now that everyone can get insurance with preventable care, there will be a lot less major operations because more people will get checked out earlier.

was that clear enough for you?

[schaffer]

Originally Posted by 99corvette

One of my older brothers is a ER doctor, see this all the time. You would be amazed at the storys he has.

I see **** like that all the time. People buying 75 dollars worth of junk food with their access card while on an iPhone,fully tatted with gold chains and such.




Meanwhile I'm busting my ass in 95 degree weather with 20 lbs of gear,long pants and boots.

[Slevin]

and where did i say my point was more intelligent or more valid than anyone else? i didn't... at all... if any of my previous posts. you are, however, making it really hard to refrain from saying something about it now. all i said was "reading > you" because that clearly is the case here, given your comments. for example, "He obviously cannot since he resulted to "reading>you" rather than making a legitimate point." apparently stating facts about the reform, facts about romney, and ideas about freedom are not legitimate points. also stating what most plans currently spend on your actual actual care (40%) is going to double (80%) clearly didn't take any actual thought process or research. unlike most people who talk about this reform, i have actually read the reform. have you? this is where i would usually make an intelligence comparison, but i'll refrain, because i met you before and thought you were a cool dude.

[Reds82]

To me its socialism it looks good on paper but human nature does not work well with it. I will help some but in the long run it will just make the poor poorer and more depended on the system easily controlled as long as they get there hand out.

[12Pack]

I think its BS to be honest, ive been working for 10 years without healthcare, i never needed it and dont plan on paying for something I dont need. FCK the govt!

[Proven]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Enlighten us.

Have you read the Bill?

[Proven]

Originally Posted by Reds82

To me its socialism it looks good on paper but human nature does not work well with it. I will help some but in the long run it will just make the poor poorer and more depended on the system easily controlled as long as they get there hand out.

Whats your definition of Socialism? The most socialistic Country around would be Sweden. Their economy was hardly effected by the down turn, they have a higher average wage then us along with lower unemployment and smaller amount of poverty stricken, They have universal Healthcare similar to Obama care, They never get into wars and their people walk the streets free.

The poor get poorer when Politicians fight to LOWER the minimum wage, cut benefits, and ship jobs over seas. A Socialistic Country is actually a fight AGAINST poverty and works.

The only part of Human nature that doesn't work well with Socialism is the part of us that wants to rule the world and be billionaires which of course only happens for about 1% of this Country.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by HatchSurfer3

He obviously cannot since he resulted to "reading>you" rather than making a legitimate point.

I guess you also read the Bill? Be Honest.. About a year ago we had a thread going and then everyone thought there was death panels and Obama wanted to choke out granny and insure immigrants because of what they HEARD on TV.

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by Reds82

To me its socialism it looks good on paper but human nature does not work well with it. I will help some but in the long run it will just make the poor poorer and more depended on the system easily controlled as long as they get there hand out.

it works perfect with every country that uses it. in the Netherlands the salary of an electrician can provide all necessities for a family of 4, as well as provide enough to send all 4 kids to college. this electrician also gets a month paid vacation time, a bunch of paid sick days, is allowed to spend 1 paid day off a month to schedule/attend health appointments, and so on. does that happen here? not even close. so yea, continue to tell me how socialism will continue to make the poor poorer and more dependent on the system and how human nature doesn't agree with it.

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by Proven

I guess you also read the Bill? Be Honest.. About a year ago we had a thread going and then everyone thought there was death panels and Obama wanted to choke out granny and insure immigrants because of what they HEARD on TV.

this. all of it. people watch fox news and think they are in expert and should believe everything they hear. i bet most people that watch fox don't even know what the big 6 is, and how they control the new stations, or what allegiances they have to big businesses. do real research peoples.

[poolmike]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Enlighten us.

yes please. Enlighten me on how my freedom to choose isn't violated....