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Old 11-08-2008, 04:34 PM   #1
OutToWinPAHC
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Peoples launches at the drag, I dont get it.

I've drag raced a number of my cars, the one car very often and consistent. I've been going to Atco to watch my buddy lately and I am seeing a lot more turbo civics then I did a few years ago. And I say this car because this is mainly what I am seeing doing this.

I think some of these cars have 11-13 potential but they are running 15-16. It sounds like they are dumping clutch at 6500-8000RPM instead of 3500-4500. And instead of going anywhere they spin tires for more then a second, then just get a bad launch.

The other thing I notice with these guys and also the rotary guys. They are not shifting until they bounce off the rev limiter a good one or two times, when on the Hondas their peak HP is probably 6500-7500 RPM boosted, and who knows with the rotarys.

I just figured I would post to see if anyone is noticing this, and maybe to shed input. I would love to see them launch better and shift at a more optimal time and get a better time slip. Some of their cars are just built, and could do so much more.
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Old 11-08-2008, 05:20 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by OutToWinPAHC View Post
I've drag raced a number of my cars, the one car very often and consistent. I've been going to Atco to watch my buddy lately and I am seeing a lot more turbo civics then I did a few years ago. And I say this car because this is mainly what I am seeing doing this.

I think some of these cars have 11-13 potential but they are running 15-16. It sounds like they are dumping clutch at 6500-8000RPM instead of 3500-4500. And instead of going anywhere they spin tires for more then a second, then just get a bad launch.

The other thing I notice with these guys and also the rotary guys. They are not shifting until they bounce off the rev limiter a good one or two times, when on the Hondas their peak HP is probably 6500-7500 RPM boosted, and who knows with the rotarys.

I just figured I would post to see if anyone is noticing this, and maybe to shed input. I would love to see them launch better and shift at a more optimal time and get a better time slip. Some of their cars are just built, and could do so much more.
I see some of these civics on slicks and they have waaay too much air in their tires. Some of them let the air out and they get good launches, but I still see many of them doing the same stuff you do. It's not just the civic guys either.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:16 PM   #3
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Well I know its not just them but last nigh I counted 9 boosted civics. And only the one was launching good. He was also only on 8 inch wheels and drag radials running a high 10. But there are many cars who do it, but of the 9 I think 5 guys were with eachother and were just ripping the tires. They all went about the same time so I just happened to notice it more.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:31 PM   #4
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honda dudes are just relying on their massive amount of TQ to pull them outta the hole.

but seriously i dont get it....my car is not boosted and slow...and if i launch over 2200 my car will spin all through first...i can only imagine those dudes.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:49 PM   #5
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dunno about those idiots but your car (silvia) sounds like it will be pretty stout with that setup. what you gonna do about the rear? that'll probably be the only thing holding it back from 10's on the motor (and what converter/gears etc..)
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:23 PM   #6
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i think the z32 or q45 diff is stronger - minor modifications to fit it iirc.
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:50 PM   #7
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I can shed some light on this.

Launching higher on the turbo Hondas is a lot better than launching lower. I spin to 90mph on street tires no matter what and it's faster to spin, shift spin, shift grab somewhere hopefully in 3rd then bog first and THEN spin shift spin shift etc. It also breaks less if you spin right away, most of the guys who bog without traction bars in most Hondas will get wheelhop and may break stuff too.

However, biggest problem is being on street tires. Last time I was at the track, I just wanted to see what the car would do, 2 3sec 60's because I couldn't put **** down before the 1/8th and I went home. Launched high and low but ended up running similar times (low 14s at ~114) both times with a 30+ mph pickup in the second half of the track lol.

Ah, FWD.
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Relax, bud. When the dude with a drag Honda and a boosted daily that has had fast Honda's for years AND fabs his own parts tells the new kids on the block that they're doing it wrong, it's time to step back and learn something.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:14 PM   #8
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fwd turbo manual is the hardest platform of them all to launch. if you can figure out how to get them out of the hole you can launch anything.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:18 PM   #9
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My old drag car was a 91 Civic hatch with a F20 boosted. Ran 10.7-10.9 all day. Launched at 4500 and shifted to second at 7000, then 6500 to third. Tires were drag radials at 265/65 15.

It was the hot pink one, I used to run Atco 2002 2003
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by alwaysinboost View Post
fwd turbo manual is the hardest platform of them all to launch. if you can figure out how to get them out of the hole you can launch anything.
lol okay now imagine that 3.0t or 3.5 out of the maxima....and boost it and put it in a sentra and figure that one out.

heres a vq30det...


hes planning a vq35 swap for the sentra thats fully built and bored to 3.8 and a 67trim....

why you would want all that in FWD is beyond me, but hey its prob harder to launch then a maxima...was basically all i was goin for in that post lol.
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Old 11-08-2008, 10:20 PM   #11
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I have a big problem with wheel hop, so I probably look like a lame ass at the track myself. From what I hear supras and street tires don't mix too well, but I'm stubborn. So if you see me I'll probably be running 12.8-13.2 @122 instead of ~11.5's.

I either bog off the line or they hop. It's pretty frustrating. I'll get drag radials eventually.
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:40 PM   #12
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IDK what you are talking about. I'm AWD so I see people doing the opposite of what you're saying. Guys in STis and WRXs who try to launch it at 4000 rpm are going no where and just bog the crap out of it. I don't think I've ever launched under 5,000 rpm and if the fronts don't spin a little I launch a little higher next time.
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpEcRv9 View Post
lol okay now imagine that 3.0t or 3.5 out of the maxima....and boost it and put it in a sentra and figure that one out.

heres a vq30det...


hes planning a vq35 swap for the sentra thats fully built and bored to 3.8 and a 67trim....

why you would want all that in FWD is beyond me, but hey its prob harder to launch then a maxima...was basically all i was goin for in that post lol.
If you mean it's torquey slicks will take care of that.

Quote:
Tires were drag radials at 265/65 15.
Those are some BIG ass tires for a Honda, lol. I think they might even be taller than my 24.5s!
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Relax, bud. When the dude with a drag Honda and a boosted daily that has had fast Honda's for years AND fabs his own parts tells the new kids on the block that they're doing it wrong, it's time to step back and learn something.
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Old 11-09-2008, 03:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by UnderPoweredRS View Post
IDK what you are talking about. I'm AWD so I see people doing the opposite of what you're saying. Guys in STis and WRXs who try to launch it at 4000 rpm are going no where and just bog the crap out of it. I don't think I've ever launched under 5,000 rpm and if the fronts don't spin a little I launch a little higher next time.
ummmm you AWD you should launch higher you have much more resistance and more tire on the ground. It only makes sense, so I dont understand your argument.......................................... ..
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by SovXietday View Post
If you mean it's torquey slicks will take care of that.



Those are some BIG ass tires for a Honda, lol. I think they might even be taller than my 24.5s!
Get ready for some drivetrain breakage! I would invest in a stronger drivetrain before anything.It takes more than a ton of power and some slicks to run fast and consistant.
When I'm building something in stages I always do the drivetrain and engine management system first.Sorry for wandering off topic.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:25 AM   #16
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ummmm you AWD you should launch higher you have much more resistance and more tire on the ground. It only makes sense, so I dont understand your argument.......................................... ..
In order to launch hard with a high HP AWD car you really need to invest in the drivetrain.A twin disc clutch is imperative.On drag radials i launch at 7,000 riding the pedal for most of 1st gear.Thats on a street tune.Somewhere around 550-600whp.On race fuel the motor makes 350+hp more so I'm leaving the line a lot less agressively.I run all DSS stage 5 axles,DSS 3.5" HD Techapulse driveshaft,Shep Dogbox,DSS transfer case,Stress treated rear diff and there is still a great risk of breakage when launching this car hard.So in referance to the statement above about launching an AWD car harder,yes you can get off the line quicker with less spin but at the same time care must be taken.It also depends on the power output and selection of clutch.Your not gonna' benefit from just going with a single disc clutch with a high pressure plate rating.A twin or triple disc clutch and knowing how to modulate the pedal is really going to be the most important part.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:46 AM   #17
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I understand where you guys are coming from saying its hard launching fwd turbo cars but I think you might have this one backwards. Yes i know it is hard launching them but i believe an all motor fwd (if your making alot of power) is much harder. N/A applications all your power is right from the start, where as with a turbo setup unless your using anti lag your only making N/A power untill you start to make boost. im not saying im good at all and my car by no means makes alot of power but it isnt easy to launch. I have an h22 its got the most torque out of the 4 cylinder hondas. I personally think that all the launches you seen the other night was nothing to do with difficulty, just ppl testing their car for whats best considering honda day was the next day.

my buddy had a teal hatch their on friday night and had a 2.0 60 ft on bfgs and i was cutting 2.0 60 fts with toyo proxes 4 street tires!

i didnt really watch anybody else but id say these 60 fts are pretty good. I did hear other guys say they were doing like 2.5s and 2.3s which is definately not good but im sure after a little practice theyll be ok.

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Old 11-09-2008, 04:43 PM   #18
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ummmm you AWD you should launch higher you have much more resistance and more tire on the ground. It only makes sense, so I dont understand your argument.......................................... ..
my argument is that I see tons of STi and WRX owners launching at less than 4,000 rpm and not going anywhere.
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:52 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 1000whpTSi View Post
In order to launch hard with a high HP AWD car you really need to invest in the drivetrain.A twin disc clutch is imperative.On drag radials i launch at 7,000 riding the pedal for most of 1st gear.Thats on a street tune.Somewhere around 550-600whp.On race fuel the motor makes 350+hp more so I'm leaving the line a lot less agressively.I run all DSS stage 5 axles,DSS 3.5" HD Techapulse driveshaft,Shep Dogbox,DSS transfer case,Stress treated rear diff and there is still a great risk of breakage when launching this car hard.So in referance to the statement above about launching an AWD car harder,yes you can get off the line quicker with less spin but at the same time care must be taken.It also depends on the power output and selection of clutch.Your not gonna' benefit from just going with a single disc clutch with a high pressure plate rating.A twin or triple disc clutch and knowing how to modulate the pedal is really going to be the most important part.
I managed a 1.59 60' on street tires with a single disc clutch+a heavy pressure plate. I launch at about 5500 or higher depending on the track prep and I ride the pedal for all of first gear(first in my car is very short). I also preload the drive train a little to take up any of the slack. Only think that I have had break on me at the track is a rear diff and that was a stock open diff with 130K miles on it and probably over 100 track launches and god only knows on the street. But this is the price you pay for racing right? Hopefully next year I'll be running a PPG dogbox :-)

I'm not saying these guys with pretty much stock AWD cars should launch off the limiter. I'm just saying they need to launch hard enough to spin the fronts a little. Most of them just bog out. It's a shame seeing STis and WRXs putting down 2+ second 60' times. I also find find that in a AWD car things break when you don't get wheel spin. So some wheel spin is what I aim for.
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:04 PM   #20
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I managed a 1.59 60' on street tires with a single disc clutch+a heavy pressure plate. I launch at about 5500 or higher depending on the track prep and I ride the pedal for all of first gear(first in my car is very short). I also preload the drive train a little to take up any of the slack. Only think that I have had break on me at the track is a rear diff and that was a stock open diff with 130K miles on it and probably over 100 track launches and god only knows on the street. But this is the price you pay for racing right? Hopefully next year I'll be running a PPG dogbox :-)

I'm not saying these guys with pretty much stock AWD cars should launch off the limiter. I'm just saying they need to launch hard enough to spin the fronts a little. Most of them just bog out. It's a shame seeing STis and WRXs putting down 2+ second 60' times. I also find find that in a AWD car things break when you don't get wheel spin. So some wheel spin is what I aim for.
True,but once again this depends on your power level.Believe me,if I wanted to spin tire half way down the track it would'nt be hard.
I understand you had good results with the single disc,but there is no doubt in my mind you would have even better results with a twin disc.There is really no comparison.You might just not be at the power level where you need it yet.No offense.
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