First thing that came to mind is he'd be better of with just the turbo and also I asked where is the IC? I can't see how this is more beneficial then a big single?

I also thought the purpose of twin charging is to use a SC or smaller turbo to spool the big boy faster and ultimatly make more HP in the end. Maybe im wrong.

The supercharged has an IC on it. I think he is going to be putting on an Air to air IC soon however I maybe wrong. He may already have something on it.

The 3800 block is impressively strong. I think people have taken this block into the 9's without ever touching it. Usually the only thing you have to worry about is chinking a piston if you get excessive KR.

I know when guys mount turbo kits onto these cars there is the option to run the car without and IC on the turbo. I don't see why you would ever do that. However have to consider that these cars stock do not come intercooled on the SC and people have pushed the limts even without an IC. This guy is has an IC setup for the SC and he pretty much just added on a non intercooled turbo kit. I think he said he is waiting for something to come out or whatever to install a turbo FMHE. If I remember he is not pushing too much boost though the turbo. I am not really 100% sure what is goal is but people have done this setup before and it somehow works. If I was going turbo I would most certainly want to IC that as well.

seen similar idea on UK Jetta i think, it had supercharger for low rpm boost and turbo for high but there was a some kinda gate between two systems so when supercharger was working the output of turbocharger was closed and when turbo spooled up it blocked supercharger output.

but his car looks total sleeper

you are correct. there was a twincharged ion that I saw. Had a similiar gate so that when the pressure going into the supercharger met some limit, diverted air directly into the manifold. This kept any damage happening from turbo pressure messing with the roots blower rotors and belt slip/spin. Pretty trick setup that required a separate ECU.

seems like your buddy has a lot of work to do lol, i give him mad props for tryin this out, and if he can make this work properly thats gonna be sick as sh*t. there has to be someone out there that knows how to run this correctly

I remember an article in Turbo mag years back about a twin charged MR2.The results were actually good.

Yea HKS had a twincharge kit for the 4AGE many many years ago. Very rare then, even more nowadays. It was rated in the 300HP range which is excellent for the 1.6l engine.

VW uses twincharging on some of its cars in Europe (idk if they do in the US). The SC blows air into the turbo helping it spool faster and once it does the SC is deactivated using a magnetic clutch and the air gets routed around it. I believe the twincharger on the 4AGE worked this way too.

Besides going Twin charged SC/Turbo ZZP Performance has the only twin turbo charged 3800 Pontiac Grand Prix GT. Its currently the worlds 3800 record holder running an 8.65 @158MPH. And I thought my car was pretty fast hah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5SYPtPfAdQ

he would be better off takin the Supercharger off, installing an intercooler and turning the boost up on the turbo. it would be more efficient that way. allthough its cool to see, its not very efficient if he wants to make any serious power.

Friend of mine had a GTP and he turbo charged it....had a built bottom end, some bolt ons...thing was pretty stout. went 11.90's@121 or something to that effect. couldnt keep the trans in the car though...supposedly a weak link in those things.

some of his vids:

pay no attention to that turd in the left lane...:mrgreen:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=YDw5Mv...eature=related

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ5eyrobCJs <--12sec run

The transmissions in these cars are made of glass. I lost 4th gear in my car shortly after getting it. Somehow my buddy is on the stock trans with 150K. I now have a Dynotech Stage II Racing Transmission so hopefully that will not give me any problems anytime soon. If he was able to run 11's on the stock trans that's very respectable

I didn't think the trans were that strong on these cars from what I've read.

Yea. Its similar to a svt cobra set up. The blower has a small air to water IC built in. I doubt its enough to handle the heat of the turbo though

yeah you either explode the diff, input shaft, drive chain, or loose 4th gear.

sick mcnasty son

My buddy just posted this up on our regal forum. He took his car to the track on the 11th and this is what he said:

I just got back from Atco. I have to say that I am disappointed, mostly because the track conditions were not that great, and I couldn't get a decent launch to save my life. On top of that, my computer kept losing the USB connection, and I made three or four runs with no scan data, which meant I couldn't tune for the next run. This really ticked me off, because I only wanted to go to tune fuel on the top end. :evil:

I started out with some easy passes, and ran mostly low 13's on 12psi. After each pass I cranked the boost up a little, but I didn't want to go too far over 14.5, because I don't have my boost gauge installed yet, and I couldn't tell how much boost I was making as the MAP runs out at 14.5psi. As I cranked the boost up, I could see the traps getting faster, but my ET's weren't getting better because I couldn't launch strong. I kept spinning no matter how easy I went into the throttle. I finally just gave up trying to launch, and worked on getting the best traps I could, and getting fuel in line. After about 3 or 4 runs, I trapped 111, with a 13.05 ET. It was clear that I should be running low 12's, but spinnin' ain't winnin', and the track seemed to just get worse. A couple guys actually went sideways off the line, and everybody was complaining, so I guess it wasn't just me.

At least I was getting some decent tuning done. I went as high as about 16psi (as far as I could tell), and AFR was looking good and hanging right at 11.5. I started out running 15-16* of timing, but backed off a little as the boost got higher. For not having an IC on the turbo, I thought the runs were good. I saw 1-2* of KR at the highest boost, and mostly on the last run, which happened to be the best.

Anyway, sorry for such a long story, and here is the best time of the night:

12.693 @ 109.09

R/T ... .057
60' ... 2.019
330 ... 5.427
1/8 ... 8.218
MPH ... 87.70
1000 ... 10.639
1/4 ... 12.693
MPH ... 109.09

The really funny part about this run is that I did it with no more than 80% throttle, and most of the run was only around 50%! :? I was up against a late-model T/A, and I treed him good. He ran 12.87 @ 109.85.

For those with HPT, I'll post the scan of the last run in the tuning section. You can see how I started out lean in 1st gear because I barely had the pedal down. :lol: I'm going to have to fix that. This T72 gets into boost very quickly.

The roots supercharger runs MUCH hotter Air Temps than a Turbo. A turbo is far more efficiant.

12.6's in a huge buick is pretty funny. How that thing handle though? Whenever I think buick I think of some 70 year old guy swerving into a ditch after a duck walks into the road or something like that.

Both him and I have the Police Impala suspension upgrades to our car. I mean over stock it makes a big difference but I wouldn't be taking this car to any road course anytime soon. There are much better upgrades however the costs are just not worth it. I also have heard of people cracking the sub frames on these cars because its just way too stiff. For the size of our cars they do alright. Yeah the time is extremely impressive being these cars run high around the 15.0 range stock.

Yeah, FMHE is a front mount heat exchanger. Basically an air to water intercooler but a lot bigger and mounted in front of tha radiator, just as a regular air to air IC would do. With a smaller pulley on my Eaton M62 blower, I've seen 185+ IAT2 temps on warmer days, which is NOT good. I'd HIGHLY suggest getting a FMIC as soon as possible.

On a side note, the ZZPerformance twin charge kit for the Ion Redline/Cobalt SS hit 465WHP on race gas at 25psi, with JUST exhaust! All stock internals. Don't think it will hold that power for long though...