experiences a 4-5 second lag when turning the key to start the car

[nhanxsolo]

I've had the car for almost a year and everytime it would start up quick and perfectly without any weird noises or delay. Recently, my alternator went bad and I just replaced it. Now I would have to hold the key all the way to the right (on position) for about 4 seconds until it starts to sputter and then start up. (Not sure if the alternator and this start up problem is related)

Any idea what may be wrong? This morning the car did the same thing when I went to start it up, only it died a second later and I had to start it up again, then the CEL flashed for about 10 seconds then became a steady light. Car runs fine, and it gets power to the radio/dash/windows perfectly, but on start up it's really flakey and I'm worried I'll be stranded somewhere.

[Elliott18t]

Rough Running At Idle: MAF, Ignition Coil, Spark Plug, VAC Leak, O2 Sensor, TB, CTS
Missfires under Boost Flashing CEL: Ignition Coils, Spark Plugs
Running Rich: Boost Leak, MAF, O2 Sensor, Coolant Temp Sensor
Running Lean: VAC Leak, MAF, O2 Sensor, Fuel Filter
Low Boost: Limp Mode, MBC, BOV, DV, Boost Leak, N75
High Boost: MBC Setting, N75, Spark Plugs, Ignition Coils
Cold Start Problems: MAF, Spark Plugs, Fuel Pump Relay, CTS
Poor Gas Mileage: MAF, CTS, O2 Sensor, AIT Sensor
Cat Efficiency Below Threshold: Down pipe, CAT, Rear O2, RACE FUEL
No Start: Battery - ECU, Fuel Pump Relay, Ground
Start For 1 Second Stall: Immobilizer
Overheating: Waterpump, Thermostat, Head Gasket
Oil in coolant: Oil Cooler, head Gasket, Water Wetter
Dies While Driving: Timing belt, Boost Leak, MISC
Shorts To ground CEL: Fuel Pump Relay, Bad Grounds
Oil in your IC/IC piping: Check your PCV system

id probably check the things under cold start/running rough at idle.

[nhanxsolo]

Thanks man, I replaced spark plugs 2 months ago, just swapped in coils few days ago, changed the CTS a month ago. I know there is a boost leak but its always been there and can't see how its affecting it this badly now.

[Elliott18t]

doubt its that, wouldnt be maf unless your CEL is on along with the ESC light on as well just above it. dont think it would really cause those problems, as mine only had me run in limp mode ::shrug:: are your plugs grapped right (i assume so, but just have to check)? i guess all i can say is just check over the stuff that you haven't already lol..

[nhanxsolo]

Yup spark plugs gapped to chipped gap .028. I guess I just need to scan to see what the CEL says... ughh

[nhanxsolo]

So drove car somewhere today and when I went out it wouldn't start... had to pop the clutch to get it to start, and it started up fine after I drove it home... wtfffff ignition coils are fine, changed the alternator a week ago and the battery is good. What else could be wrong?

[cbirgl]

Doesn't start how? Won't even crank? Has to be electrical then. Possibly starter going bad? Is the vehicle still hot when you try to start?

[nhanxsolo]

Doesn't start how? Won't even crank? Has to be electrical then. Possibly starter going bad? Is the vehicle still hot when you try to start?



Yes. I drove it for about 30 mins on the highway to get to where I was going. Went inside for about 20 mins, came back out and wouldn't start. Popped the clutch to get it started and it started fine the rest of the day. The past few days it has had problems with a delay to get cranking.

[cbirgl]

Still not clear does it crank over or just click?

[Elliott18t]

something is probably wrong with the starter.

[nhanxsolo]

Still not clear does it crank over or just click?

Well the past few days, I had to hold the key to the on position for about 4 seconds until it starts cranking then it would start up.

Yesterday it wouldn't crank or click at all... the radio still worked fine while it wouldn't start.

something is probably wrong with the starter.

I will get it scanned today by an odb2... wish I had vagcom.

[cbirgl]

Sounds like starter issue or ignition switch starting to go bad. ignition switch is the more common of the 2...

[nhanxsolo]

Sounds like starter issue or ignition switch starting to go bad. ignition switch is the more common of the 2...

thanks again Chris for all of your advice... I went out to start it this afternoon... started up perfectly, the CEL went away so i cant get it scanned... lol I hate vws.

[dsmtuner]

You can still get it scanned, the faults will still be in there. They will just be classified as a stored/intermitent/sporadic/pending fault. They are almost certainly just going to be a bunch of sporadic random misfire faults, since you said the MIL was flashing(indicates misfire). Have you had the coil recall done out of curiosity? As for the starting problem, my money is on the ignition switch, possibly the starter, but it could really be anything. My car used to do something similar where I would get a sporadic no crank/no start, I replaced everything mentioned above and more and finally ended up having to run all new wires before I got it fixed.

[nhanxsolo]

You can still get it scanned, the faults will still be in there. They will just be classified as a stored/intermitent/sporadic/pending fault. They are almost certainly just going to be a bunch of sporadic random misfire faults, since you said the MIL was flashing(indicates misfire). Have you had the coil recall done out of curiosity? As for the starting problem, my money is on the ignition switch, possibly the starter, but it could really be anything. My car used to do something similar where I would get a sporadic no crank/no start, I replaced everything mentioned above and more and finally ended up having to run all new wires before I got it fixed.

Thanks man, I will start with the ignition switch... then the starter. What kind of wires were you talking about?? im guessing the ignition coil harness is one of them right? where would I get these wires outside from the dealership.

[Elliott18t]

20 squared has it iirc. it was $50. i had to get it since a coil pack fried mine, so i went to bolt downs as well..

[nhanxsolo]

20 squared has it iirc. it was $50. i had to get it since a coil pack fried mine, so i went to bolt downs as well..

Alright, I just ordered an ignition switch from GAP... I will let you guys know how that goes, then I will replace the harness since it looks pretty haggared, then the starter since its the most expensive.

btw I just spent like an hour trying to pop the clutch on my car to drive a chick home, me trying to push it in this weather and her trying to use the cluth = pain in the ass! luckily some guy helped me push and I was able to pop the clutch and get it started... as of right now it starts up perfectly, I know if I let it sit for a few hours it's not gonna wanna start again though.

[dsmtuner]

The wires I had to rewire was the ones for the starter circuit, from switch to relay, from relay to starter solenoid. It wasn't really that bad actually, just frustraing that it came to that. Anyway I hope you figure it out and if you need any help feel free to pm me, I am a VW tech so I can ussually help you out with most things.

[nhanxsolo]

So FINALLY got around to replacing the ignition switch after a month lol (I just bought a bike and has had no need to drive the car so it sat there). I thought I needed to take the steering wheel off because of some idiot and his DIY but I didn't.. just made it a hassle and took up a lot more time than necessary. So I had to jump it because the battery was almost dead and then it started up fine... it runs really different though, I think its because it sat so long. I can't hear it idling anymore (full turboback exhaust), also feels very underpowered during acceleration, like the turbo doesn't do much. This may just be a psychological thing since I'm used to riding on a bike with a real loud engine now... but IDK... def feels different. I hope the ignition key was the problem and it starts up fine long after today.

[cbirgl]

Hearing differences are probably not related to the ignition switch, but hopefully that takes care of the issue. Let us know!

[nhanxsolo]

Hearing differences are probably not related to the ignition switch, but hopefully that takes care of the issue. Let us know!

Ok so the problem is still there even with the new ignition switch. I need to jump the car in order to start it... and its fine while driving, then when I turn it off, it won't turn on again without jumping.

Alternator replaced
Ignition switch replaced

What else could be the problem? my dad thinks the OEM VW battery isn't holding a charge anymore... but when we tested it at PepBoys they said it was good... what are the chances of an alternator and battery going bad at the same time? Because we also put in a new battery BEFORE we replaced the alternator... and that new battery died and wouldn't charge so we knew it was the alternator that was bad and NOT our old battery, so we returned the new battery and went back to using the old OEM VW nattery. However, now it seems the VW battery isn't holding a charge, but the alternator works perfect (test: got the car running, and disconnected the battery and car still runs).


ALSO: I notced that after having my car sit for 3 weeks... it idles perfectly stable at 750 rpm... I mean it doesn't fluctuate ever, and its almost silent. Before, it would fluctuate around 800-900 and it would idle rough and loud... do you think there is a chance that my flash tune was wiped and I need to reflash? the car does feel underpowered.

[cbirgl]

When the alternator goes it can take out the battery pretty easily. The alternators usually go bad and start charging too much voltage. If you are jumping the car to get it started then it is solely a battery issue - the problem is you need to find out if the battery is bad or something is draining it. If the car needs jumped after sitting for only a few minutes it is very unlikely that there is something drawing enough power to cause that - meaning the likely problem is the battery itself.

What software do you have? The only possibility is for the software to be on a different file or changed settings - you can't change the tune without actually flashing something else over it.

Hope that helps

[nhanxsolo]

Thanks again Chris.

I'm just thrown off by the fact that I thought the battery was bad initially then found out that the alternator was the culprit, then replacing the alternator then finding out that the battery is bad. But it makes sense if you said a bad alternator could kill a battery. I will go buy a new battery again.

I have the Unitronics stage 2 from 20Squared. Maybe its just a psychological thing that makes me think the car is underpowered after not driving it for so long while riding a motorcycle. But the idle becoming steady and idling quiet is definitely a change. I also noticed that after 3 weeks, my coolant AND oil were both nearly drained (just had an oil change 2 months ago).

[Willdue]

Starter

[cbirgl]

Starter would not likely be fixed by jump starting the vehicle.

Your oil and coolant were low after the vehicle sat for 3 weeks? Sounds like you have some leaks...

[Elliott18t]

wtf both where nearly drained?! @_@

oh and thanks cbirgl for helping me with that wiring diagram again a while ago :thumbup:

[nhanxsolo]

Starter would not likely be fixed by jump starting the vehicle.

Your oil and coolant were low after the vehicle sat for 3 weeks? Sounds like you have some leaks...

wtf both where nearly drained?! @_@

oh and thanks cbirgl for helping me with that wiring diagram again a while ago :thumbup:

Yeah lol... pretty bad too I think.

Chris thanks for your thorough help and not just throwing random parts out without any insights or explanation.

[Willdue]

My starter did the same thing on my 1.8T, and if you jumped it, it was enough umph for it to turn.

[nhanxsolo]

Bought a new battery and it starts up fine now... hopefully it stays that way. Weird how they both went out at the same time. Thanks again Chris. When I find time, I def wanna stop by your shop and check it out.

[cbirgl]

Maybe when the shop is built you can. May have a hard time seeing it before then :D Hope it's all taken care of now...

[Willdue]

LMK if you need anymore help. I had the same issues and did the same thing. Mine came back. til i replaced the starter. Hopefully yours dont

[nhanxsolo]

Its been fine starting up since I bought a new battery... runs great. Just that the coolant runs low and the light comes on everytime I get in the car... filled it up 2 days ago and today it's low again.... I dunno where the leak is. There is no coolant puddles or anything on the ground below the car, I dunno where it's all going lol.

[cbirgl]

Common places are water pump and coolant flange on driver's side of the head

[Willdue]

Its been fine starting up since I bought a new battery... runs great. Just that the coolant runs low and the light comes on everytime I get in the car... filled it up 2 days ago and today it's low again.... I dunno where the leak is. There is no coolant puddles or anything on the ground below the car, I dunno where it's all going lol.

thats not good lol. Check your oil

[DPancoast]

grounds?

[nhanxsolo]

Common places are water pump and coolant flange on driver's side of the head

Right again man, it was the coolant flange... actually just the O ring seal was busted... replaced the flange and seal anyways... still leaking coolant more than before lol, think I put a hose back wrong or something. I keep running out of coolant and my car overheated today before I got a chance to fix it. When it was overheating I poured water in the tank because that was all I had, I noticed that water was coming out of another hose near the coolant tank.

So my question is, can I buy a replacement hose for that one part? or would I need to dish out $200 and get the full Forge hose kit? think I could just get new worm clamps to replace the old ones to hold better???


Also random question: When I replaced my ignition switch a while back, I had to take apart the steering wheel and my airbag light came on. How do I turn it off? will VagCam do that?

Thanks in advanced.

[cbirgl]

If you can get me a picture of the hose (here or text on my phone) I can try and get a part number for you. Most of the hoses use spring-type clamps and don't really need replaced. That doesn't mean you can't replace them if you want. Just be careful not to cut into the rubber with other style clamps.

Vag-com can certainly turn off airbag lights as long as the "problem" is fixed - otherwise the light will come right back on.

As for being right, I was just throwing out common ideas for you to check out. Anyone can guess, the hard part is actually locating and fixing the problems in person.

[nhanxsolo]

I'm gonna need a couple parts actually.

First part: Plastic splitter... somehow it's cracked and there is coolant seeping out of the tight crack.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4796082125_86f58e8c4e.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4796712880_27aa31e4cf.jpg


Second part: Hose that comes out of the splitter. Notice the dried coolant.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4796083781_d612a116c7.jpg

Third part: L shaped hose that comes out from the bottom of the flange (the area circled in red is where it's leaking, that end is very soft, doesn't seal tight even with the clamp)

Edit: Just found out its called an oil cooler hose (http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Jetta/Cooling/120/9)

http://imgur.com/74Q6T.jpg


Another problem, I also notice coolant leaking from the flange again... even after I replaced the seal and the flange... I'm sure I tightened everything up real good. I don't know why its still leaking. It's dripping down onto the area circled in red in the above picture too....

This is the mess!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4796083587_f8dce10c33.jpg

Where's the cheapest place to grab these parts? I usually order from GAP but I dont think they sell these parts seperetely.

[cbirgl]

1j0122109aq - http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/1j0122109aq/ES251609/
1j0121086br - http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/1j0121086br/ES9419/ (not sure if that one looks right...)

Those look like the right part numbers for your application. It looks like the hose on the first part is included, but it can be hard to tell with these parts diagrams.

[Willdue]

Shame your not closer. Got these spare parts laying around my shop

[nhanxsolo]

Shame your not closer. Got these spare parts laying around my shop

I got paypal and you can mail it out to me.. .wouldn't cost more than a few bucks.

[20squared]

I'm gonna need a couple parts actually.

First part: Plastic splitter... somehow it's cracked and there is coolant seeping out of the tight crack.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4796082125_86f58e8c4e.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4796712880_27aa31e4cf.jpg


Such a common problem. Can't begin to tell you how many 1.8T's we've had here with this issue. We're in the midst of making a billet replacement since it's such a common issue.