Mods delete

[DelSol95]

Deleted

[TalonTsi97]

Not the first time i've heard negative reviews on him, especially recently. Maybe he's getting a big head from all the fame or something?
It's a shame cause at one time he was the go to guy.
What kind of dyno and who tuned it when it made 225whp?

[DelSol95]

evans tuned the exact same setup 2 years ago on his dynopack. today he just seemed lazy and didnt feel like doing anything to get power out of it. missing 25hp + i highly dont recomend him

[Foolinaround]

Also,was there anykind of leaks or anything on your car,he wont tune any car that has any hint of rigging. not saying you did but he is very specific when it comes to tuning cars.

[DelSol95]

that car was far from rigged. everything professionally installed. everything brand new. brand new type r head from the deal ship. not one thing is used on it. i shouldnt have went when i herd he tryed telling someone they lost vtec in a cylinder

[The Captain]

Also,was there anykind of leaks or anything on your car,he wont tune any car that has any hint of rigging. not saying you did but he is very specific when it comes to tuning cars.

can't blame him. Anything goes wrong with the car, it's instantly gonna get blamed on him.


I dont know LSV motors too well, but 225whp seems really high. Honestly, 190-200whp sounds pretty close to what it should be making.

[DelSol95]

its even on his website hes done 3 cars with the same build and they made 225

[The Captain]

Post up the dyno sheet.

What crank are you using? Is the Type R head P&P'd?

[Foolinaround]

so many variables come into play though,why did you say you want your vtec set lower while there?

[DelSol95]

we dyno'd it at 5k-6k-and 7k vtec limits. with vtec at 5k it bogged down. but he didnt change anything to compensate ignition or fuel aka he didnt tune it

[Proven]

I've also heard nothing but great things about Jeff Evans and surprised to hear this. I just went on his site to check dyno charts and your def. not lying. There's the one guy with basically the same exact set up getting a good 25whp more but w/ neptune (which I'm sure doesn't matter).

His site does show some frustration which I'm sure carries over in real life. I love that he has "my names Not evan or evans. My names Jeff, if you email me calling me anything but you will not get a response" haha! To me that sounds like a snooty artist or someone that will **** out a tune if not in a good mood.. a soup nazi..

I would call him back another day and try to find out why things are lacking. Today he was prob. in a ****ty mood and didn't feel like dealing (only human)

Or check out Import DPS, pretty sure they're solid with Honda tuning.

[The Captain]

Full Tanabe exhaust? Cause that's not 2.5in either...60mm or 2.36in. And the tanabe is relatively quiet too, correct? That's some more restriction right there.

[DelSol95]

i dont think im just being a angry customer. im def being logical about it. he was just ignorant and seemed like he wanted to get out of there.

[Renegade_]

dynapack vs dynojet is way, way different.

Just to let you know. bhp vs. whp

[igo4bmx]

I am very surprised- he has tuned way too many hondas- to the point he knows the limits of the car before he's finished.
Like renegade said- different dynos yield different results so don't go by WHP!.

you can't do much to an n/a car the fuel compensation is pretty linear (unlike turbo cars where boost shows up).


I will say jeff is a strange dude- he kinda talks in a strange way- hard to explain.

[igo4bmx]

ha who built your motor?

[DelSol95]

im gonna take it to kuna

[namdoogwerdna]

This is the first bad thing I have heard about Jeff and Evans Tuning as a whole. I know that I have been in dozens of cars that Jeff has tuned that have been absolutely insane. I am fully confident that he understands the limits of a honda motor.

He could be losing his touch, or getting tired of it, but I dunno I feel like there is a piece missing from this puzzle.

[DelSol95]

my friend got his s2k boosted and had evans tune it. and should have made well over 400 hp. evans only got 280 out of it. and i dunno. jeff and the guy who built my motor hate eachother, so that could be something? i dunno. but ill find the real answer out when i get tuned again. vtec at 7k is just dumb imo

[Foolinaround]

no upgraded fuel pump?

[DelSol95]

walbro 255

[Foolinaround]

Ah okay,wasnt sure if i missed it in the mods. only thing i could think of is he didnt trust the builder of your motor and decided to play it safe.

[2001teg]

Yea, there is something horribly wrong with your tune. Check out my dyno chart in the jap. section. You should be running over me with lsv any day.

[Grounded]

Im not a tuner nor do i claim to be. But i dont see how it would be beneficial to have your vtec xover at 7k with your setup.

[abrok99]

call him up asking what your setup would make after he tuned it and see what he says.

[Foolinaround]

"To tune, the VTEC point was set to 7000 rpm and the low speed cam tuned . The VTEC point was then set to 3000 rpm and the high speed cam tuned. Torque crossover point was 5600 rpm which is where the VTEC point was set." Taken from hondata's site about tuning an NA vtec motor.

[Grounded]

"To tune, the VTEC point was set to 7000 rpm and the low speed cam tuned . The VTEC point was then set to 3000 rpm and the high speed cam tuned. Torque crossover point was 5600 rpm which is where the VTEC point was set." Taken from hondata's site about tuning an NA vtec motor.

Yeah, exactly. If hes seeing nothing till 7k that whole tune was worthless. I understand that some setups react better with it raised a bit but more then a 1k rpm increase has me :bigeek:.
I think the posting of the dyno sheet would be in order for this thread.

[BCSpeed]

Over the years ive took many of my own cars to jeff and sent customer cars there some made power and some didnt. If there was ever an issue some bull **** statement was made in regard to why there was an issue,but never any stone cold evidence as to why there was an issue.Even after all of that it was never a big deal because i trusted him and continued to do business with him. Than i had my si up there and had it tuned which went fine and we had a good day about 3 months later my ecu took a dump so i contacted jeff and i sent him an NEW ecu which he said he would chip it and put my map on it. I get the ecu back and the car ran..... But something just didnt feel the same. That wasn't a huge deal because i really didn't ever drive the car and i was looking to sell it so i didnt make a big deal. Point for my story the guy i sold it to took the car to clm racing in newark to have the car tuned and just looked over. Ive never meet any of these guys in my life and ive known jeff for about 8 years or so. Clm states And i quote.............. Build is perfect mechanically, theres not one issue with the car, but it just dosent feel right.The map thats on the car is clearly not for that car says cuhna.The car had a t67 ho on a 1.8l engine the map that was on there was for a 1.6l t3/to4e. Hummm something not right with this guy... My car made 480whp at 18psi ish. Clm made 578whp with another 2 psi humm.. Is someone scaming people i do think so. How is it that this del sol with nothing wrong with it makes 25+ hp less than any other setup of any equal build. He has a perfect running car with all new parts that doesn't make any sense. Compression tests great,leak down is within spec., engine is built within spec of any honda engine build, valves are adjusted to spec from skunk2. And yet jeff has no facts as to why this is.... SHADY! Sounds like he didnt want to take the time to figure anything out, just collect a quick check from some unknowing person. Whats the kid to do not pay him and have no ride home???? Not even from a mechanics point of view, just a normal business aspect your only in business because of your customers and if you treat them like garbage you wont be in business forever... You can only screw over so many people before you run out of people to screw.......

[DelSol95]

he said the reason for the vtec at 7k was any lower the car would just fall on its face. meaning set at it would make power up till 5k and when vtec hit, it would loose 30hp and 40 tourqe. untill 6900 where is cought back up. i dont tune cars but have 1400 rpm just in vtec is worthless. mine as well have a ls

[Foolinaround]

Over the years ive took many of my own cars to jeff and sent customer cars there some made power and some didnt.

If there was ever an issue some bull **** statement was made in regard to why there was an issue,but never any stone cold evidence as to why there was an issue.Even after all of that it was never a big deal because i trusted him and continued to do business with him.

Than i had my si up there and had it tuned which went fine and we had a good day about 3 months later my ecu took a dump so i contacted jeff and i sent him an NEW ecu which he said he would chip it and put my map on it. I get the ecu back and the car ran..... But something just didnt feel the same.

That wasn't a huge deal because i really didn't ever drive the car and i was looking to sell it so i didnt make a big deal. Point for my story the guy i sold it to took the car to clm racing in newark to have the car tuned and just looked over. Ive never meet any of these guys in my life and ive known jeff for about 8 years or so.

Clm states And i quote.............. Build is perfect mechanically, theres not one issue with the car, but it just dosent feel right.The map thats on the car is clearly not for that car says cuhna.The car had a t67 ho on a 1.8l engine the map that was on there was for a 1.6l t3/to4e. Hummm something not right with this guy... My car made 480whp at 18psi ish.

Clm made 578whp with another 2 psi humm.. Is someone scaming people i do think so. How is it that this del sol with nothing wrong with it makes 25+ hp less than any other setup of any equal build. He has a perfect running car with all new parts that doesn't make any sense.

Compression tests great,leak down is within spec., engine is built within spec of any honda engine build, valves are adjusted to spec from skunk2. And yet jeff has no facts as to why this is.... SHADY! Sounds like he didnt want to take the time to figure anything out, just collect a quick check from some unknowing person.

Whats the kid to do not pay him and have no ride home???? Not even from a mechanics point of view, just a normal business aspect your only in business because of your customers and if you treat them like garbage you wont be in business forever... You can only screw over so many people before you run out of people to screw.......


Breaking this up so we can actually read it

[BCSpeed]

AS far as i know jeff dosent hate me i just think after all the years and all the money i made him its not really cool what he did. In additon to that he has tuned over 15 motors i built. At no point did any of these fail on his dyno so theres no reason he would have any issues in trusting my builds. Im a honda master tech and ive been working/ building cars for over ten years.

[Foolinaround]

No one is doubting your skills here,we are just trying to make reasoning out of why his tune is the way it is,and without a dyno map this thread is useless.

[BCSpeed]

sorry about the super long post i was trying to make sense out of my thoughts...

[BCSpeed]

NoNO i didnt get that vibe just stating my side and trying to let everyone,who dosent know me that im not some hack.

[DelSol95]

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs294.ash1/22177_267802437196_722642196_4132759_2838112_n.jpg

[Grounded]

It appears that you vtec crossover is actually at around 5300rpm

[boostedgixxer]

My personal experience with evans is poor to say the least he is an asshole... I had 2 cars tuned by him the first was ok besides the fact of his personality thinking he is god the tune went fine, The next car was tuned made good power but didnt last more than the drive home called him up no answer emailed him and over a week later he responds with not my problem your motor was built wrong needless to say the motor had made 400+hp before and just chaged a few minor things, thats why he was tuning it. I would not reccomend this guy to anyone he doesent know what customer service is, he thinks we should be thanking him for working on our cars, And if something goes wrong it is NEVER HIS FAULT no matter what the cuircumstances are i have heard good things and recently ALOT of bad things he got too big too fast and forgot what this industry is all about :banned::banned::banned:

[Grounded]

If you would like to contact another reputable tuner in pa call innovative motor works.
After looking on there site i saw a dyno for an ITR with bolts ons that had a similar dyno to yours. assuming it didnt have cams im wondering if indeed more power could have been pulled out of your setup.
http://www.innovative-motorworks.com/galleries/index.php?gallery=13

[DelSol95]

everyone keeps sayin it looks around 5500 where its hitting vtec. but its def not. i checked it on my comp and i can here it clearly hit at 7. but yeah hes horrible. 20 mins late for the appointment. and every 5 mins he was talkin to people who were working on his new shop. seemed like he wanted to get some where else and leave. horrible horrible service and work. im not saying all this bad stuff about him cuz i didnt make power. ask anyone who has personally been there and they will agree with me.

[DelSol95]

If you would like to contact another reputable tuner in pa call innovative motor works.
After looking on there site i saw a dyno for an ITR with bolts ons that had a similar dyno to yours. assuming it didnt have cams im wondering if indeed more power could have been pulled out of your setup.
http://www.innovative-motorworks.com/galleries/index.php?gallery=13


if u look at any forums. even jeffs. my setup has been proven to make 220. if i got 210 ide be happy but hes off my 30+hp.

[Grounded]

if u look at any forums. even jeffs. my setup has been proven to make 220. if i got 210 ide be happy but hes off my 30+hp.

Im not at all saying that 190ish is normal for your setup. Im just helping to prove you right.

[boostedgixxer]

everyone keeps sayin it looks around 5500 where its hitting vtec. but its def not. i checked it on my comp and i can here it clearly hit at 7. but yeah hes horrible. 20 mins late for the appointment. and every 5 mins he was talkin to people who were working on his new shop. seemed like he wanted to get some where else and leave. horrible horrible service and work. im not saying all this bad stuff about him cuz i didnt make power. ask anyone who has personally been there and they will agree with me.

lol i forgot when i had my second car tuned he was over an hour late and then tryed to short me time because someone else was coming for a tune after me

[Foolinaround]

Maybe try tuning at xenocron,i got my car base mapped by them and i know a bunch of people who get tuned by Chris Harris,amazing guy,great PR, know his stuff.

[abrok99]

how much did you pay for the tune?

[boostedgixxer]

there plenty of other options for tuners in the area john kerr (innovative) knows his stuff, xenocron have heard nothing but good things, and my buddy was just up at psi proformance in lansdale and was really happy with those guys, so you have many options

[Foolinaround]

Im still so suprised at this,being as Jeff Evans is a wide known well respected tuner,i even had a chat with my tuner Wayne when i had my car tuned at a local shop and he knew both Jeff and Chris and had nothing but good things to say to them,Jeff even brought down a car the night before to do a duo-tune with him.

[TunedIS300]

try gettin it tuned again at either psi proformance or r/t tuning both are in lansdale.

[DelSol95]

bottom line was he did a few pulls, didnt get the numbers that he thought it would make. didnt really feel like adjusting anything. and said i was beat all within 45 mins. ill get tuned somewhere else and call him and proove to him he didnt do his job. lately ive herd nothing but bad things about him. i went to him cuz he has a good name. but i started this thread to raise awareness to it. i personally dont recomend him for ****. and if u personally got tuned there u can prob relate to alot of this stuff.

[11secdsm]

That's a shame. I've never heard anything but good things about him. Sounds like Ivey syndrome. Tune well...get big...tune well when you want to.

[DelSol95]

The whole thing sucks. Its what ever tho. I just wanted to see what others thought and had in mind about this. I'm getting tuned again in 2 weeks from someone else. Clm motor works so we will see how great evans really did.

[igo4bmx]

The car had a t67 ho on a 1.8l engine the map that was on there was for a 1.6l t3/to4e. Hummm something not right with this guy... My car made 480whp at 18psi ish. Clm made 578whp with another 2 psi humm.. Is someone scaming people i do think so. How is it that this del sol with nothing wrong with it makes 25+ hp less than any other setup of any equal build. He has a perfect running car with all new parts that doesn't make any sense. Compression tests great,leak down is within spec., engine is built within spec of any honda engine build, valves are adjusted to spec from skunk2. And yet jeff has no facts as to why this is.... SHADY! Sounds like he didnt want to take the time to figure anything out, just collect a quick check from some unknowing person. Whats the kid to do not pay him and have no ride home???? Not even from a mechanics point of view, just a normal business aspect your only in business because of your customers and if you treat them like garbage you wont be in business forever... You can only screw over so many people before you run out of people to screw.......


no honda tune EVER states the build type in the map - WTF is that shop selling you- you cannot look at a map and say "oh yeah this is for a 1.6 L t3 setup. thats total BS the other shop told you by the way. at 18lbs on a honda motor your car would have blown up if you ran a basic t3/t04e over a t67 map assuming everything is equal.

jeff evans is one of the only tuners who actually LOOKS at the plugs for timing issues. I bet the 2 psi and more power leads to higher cylinder temps!

like i said before- if it's a different dyno from the "other tune" u see. thats a big factor.
To the OP - is the vtec crossover set at 7k on the low cam or high cam map?

your dyno looks good- i'm not sure why you're upset- your torque curve is most likely what he was worried about-

[BCSpeed]

They said it was saved under someones name and there was specs on the file.. I dunno just trying to make sense, and state my side.

[igo4bmx]

They said it was saved under someones name and there was specs on the file.. I dunno just trying to make sense, and state my side.

What ecu prog were you using?
when you pull down from rom on hondata or neptune you don't see file names.

[Vince@R/TTuning]

^^^ u dont see a file name... but there is a notes section....when u download a file from Hondata on an S300 system for the ECU there is a section for notes and they are downloaded as well. I always type in notes for the set up i am tuning and save it with the rom...

And when you tune enough hondas typically you can look at the Fuel and Ignition tables and kinda see where the turbo starts to spool and TQ starts to drop off and that will give ya an idea of what the set up is without really needing to see the set up. At least thats my experience.

I wouldn't say Jeff is "one of the ONLY" tuners that check plugs....Myself and alot of the other tuners that have been in the industry a while and i am friends with all check plugs...

[Honduh]

Honestly dude that dyno graph doesn't look too bad to me from others I've seen. The torque curve doesn't drop off too hard and its making power without flattening out much. Its clear vtec is engaging at 6800, which does seem rather high to me but I've never tuned a car in my life so what do I know.

How tight the engine is built could be a isse here or ring gap/staggering, maybe try a compression and leak down test before you start blaming the tuner. Maybe you could have asked jeff for a more aggressive tune? Last time I checked a tuning session was 4 hours and cost 300+ dollars, did you pay that much for 45 minutes?

Was your car having any mechanical issues on the dyno? I know jeff WILL end a session early if he sees anything he doesn't like, just as he mentions numerous times on his website.

[DelSol95]

The compression is 250psi in all 4 cylinders. The leak down is less then 20percent in all 4 cylinders. Piston to wall is 1 thousand. and rings are spaced acording to oem specs.(17 and 19) Every single thing in that motor is brand new and oem from honda. No corners cut. So yeah. We ran the test to make sure.

[DelSol95]

Bearing clearences .0015 in all locations. He was done in 45 mins and spent an hour asking him to do a more agressive tune. He said he can't get any more power out of it. And charge me full price. 300 dollars. And spend870 on the s300. I think I've done my homework pretty well on this. I'm not just tryin to bash him for the hell of it. I have facts and evidence behind everything. All he said was I'm beat.

[Honduh]

Well then that sucks man. I'll keep this story in min d when I am ready to get tuned since I was planning on going to jeff. He seemed real cool and spent a good bit of time answering my questions and the meet he had in easton this past summer.

[Grounded]

I just cant wait to see the results of a re-tune. I also would like to see the updated vtec xover point. I dont understand the logic of it being set so high.

[DelSol95]

we shall see

[igo4bmx]

The compression is 250psi in all 4 cylinders. The leak down is less then 20percent in all 4 cylinders. Piston to wall is 1 thousand. and rings are spaced acording to oem specs.(17 and 19) Every single thing in that motor is brand new and oem from honda. No corners cut. So yeah. We ran the test to make sure.

woah leak down was less than 20% each cynlinder?
I was getting less than 1% leakdown on each cylinder.


also i will say i think jeff is realizing he could cram more tunes in a day which quicker tunes. When i got my honda done- he installed my injectors and fuel pump for free and I was there for 7 hours! including about 15-20 pulls. He did tell me how he 90% of the cars he tunes he has to fix to get them finished.


I will say one thing which happened to me was my tune somehow all of the sudden leaned out my car so bad at idle i couldn't drive it, and he didn't know why (I thought it was neptune) and so he retuned it for free.

[BCSpeed]

Less than 20% is normal. If your engine was had only 1% percent that means your rings are way too tight due to improper ring gaps or improper piston to wall. etc...... The snap on gauge reads in 80%,60%,40%,20% ranges. If you were to test ANY brand new honda engine your readings would come up less than 20%. Which is going to be on the lower end of 20%.. No engine will read 1%, Not trying to be a hater.........

[BCSpeed]

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/leakdown/leakdown.php

Check that out its a demo of leak down test with an older type gauge.

The new snap on gauge is kinda cheesy being the fact it dosent give you an exact number you kinda have to guess....

[keefer]

I'm finding this post hard to believe. It's actually the first negative I've heard about Mr. Evan's ever. I'm actually headed there Tuesday, or one of the days on the following week to get tuned. (Depends on their calendar.)

[TalonTsi97]

Like i said earlier this isn't the first story like this I've heard about Jeff Evans. I'm not doubting his ability, he has the reputation he does for a reason, but it just seems like he is getting a big head. Along with dealing with a lot of "dumb" honda kids (no offense) it probably begins to wear on you and cause you to act differently in the business.
I've seen this in the DSM scene as well. 11secdsm mentioned it with Iveytune, and even though i don't have first hand experience i can believe it.
There is always those people who fall for the popular big name tuners and will stand up for them to the death it seems, but there are always a lot of smaller people who get the bad end of the stick. With so many followers its hard to ever get your story out without hardcore bashing. Big Al@dynoflash, Buschur, Ivey, are a few to name in the DSM scene that this happens with.
I'd love to hear Evans side to this story before i truly believe anything but when a handful of these stories keep getting told it make me look at the situation differently.

[DelSol95]

I'm finding this post hard to believe. It's actually the first negative I've heard about Mr. Evan's ever. I'm actually headed there Tuesday, or one of the days on the following week to get tuned. (Depends on their calendar.)

i love how most of the people who find this "hard to beleive" never even went there haha. why do u think i went to him? because i herd he was the best of the best to go to. you let me no how ur experience with him gos. could be different i hope. but im not the only one who has had a negative experience with him.

[DelSol95]

and for the all the people who think im crazy talkin bad on jeff. i did this same thread on another forum. take a look at it because im not the only one

http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/b-series-tech/526716-tune-gone-bad.html

[keefer]

I didn't say I didn't believe you, I said it was hard to believe. I just take hearsay with a grain of salt, that's all. You know, being a "dumb Honda kid".

You can't say "no offense" when your statement is coupled with a generalization. It's rather contradictory.

[Honduh]

First of all..... f*ck b20vtec.com......I swear that site is 80% ebonics.

why don't you post this up on h-t or the boosted-hybrid website.

Also like I said before from the looks of your dyno vtec is engaging before 7000. Looks to cross over around 6600-6800, which is close to how r/t tuned that 01 gsr that was being discussed in the honda section.

Maybe you should have waited to post this AFTER you got retuned so you would have solid proof of a bad tune rather than just a feeling.

[keefer]

First of all..... f*ck b20vtec.com......I swear that site is 80% ebonics.

why don't you post this up on h-t or the boosted-hybrid website.

Also like I said before from the looks of your dyno vtec is engaging before 7000. Looks to cross over around 6600-6800, which is close to how r/t tuned that 01 gsr that was being discussed in the honda section.

Maybe you should have waited to post this AFTER you got retuned so you would have solid proof of a bad tune rather than just a feeling.

Ahem. ^^:wink:

[screamingdsm]

Dynos are tuning tools, numbers should mean nothing unless your a dyno queen? lol. Weather, dyno calibration, and other stuff can play factors, Professional built or not. You want your power, slap a 50 shot on it lol.

What were your TRACK numbers before, and now. I could care less what the dyno says, because track numbers mean everything.

[DelSol95]

First of all..... f*ck b20vtec.com......I swear that site is 80% ebonics.

why don't you post this up on h-t or the boosted-hybrid website.

Also like I said before from the looks of your dyno vtec is engaging before 7000. Looks to cross over around 6600-6800, which is close to how r/t tuned that 01 gsr that was being discussed in the honda section.

Maybe you should have waited to post this AFTER you got retuned so you would have solid proof of a bad tune rather than just a feeling.


i dunno how many time i gotta tell u, the vtec is at 7k. if u can read the dyno sheet not my fault. i could careless if u dont like b20vtec.com they tell it how it is. and when i do get retuned i will be sure to let u guys no what it does. i spoke with 5 or 6 places today and everyone of them asked if he checked compression leak down valve lash ect. jeff didnt do any of that. so from a tuning perspective if its not making power he should no why its not making power. not just say im beat give me my money.

[Foolinaround]

^
This man is right,track numbers show not dyno results.

[Grounded]

I dont think anyone should crap on the OP. No one should pay 300 to a tuner and leave unhappy... simple as that. While a dyno is a tuning/calibration device without it your car cannot even make it down the track. And the more efficient your car runs the better and more it will make it down the track. Knowing many people in the honda game I dont know many that prefer vtec xover that high on any setup.

[keefer]

I dont think anyone should crap on the OP. No one should pay 300 to a tuner and leave unhappy... simple as that. While a dyno is a tuning/calibration device without it your car cannot even make it down the track. And the more efficient your car runs the better and more it will make it down the track. Knowing many people in the honda game I dont know many that prefer vtec xover that high on any setup.

Well, I don't think no one is "crapping" on him per say. I can side with him if he feels unhappy after spending $300.00. (I would too.) But was any of this brought to Evan's attention outside of just posting it on a forum in anger?

I mean if I felt I got the short end of the stick, I would definitely express this with the person who tuned the car.

[Grounded]

I mean if I felt I got the short end of the stick, I would definitely express this with the person who tuned the car.

I agree.

Even if the car was only able to make 190 there should have been a explanation of why. Without feeling like your being rushed out and theres nothing else that can be done. Or maybe even some direction on how to achieve the desired hp.

[DelSol95]

sadly it was brought up to him many times. i was asking questions and asked him 100 times it felt like if he could try or do something different. all i got was refusal from him.ill give him this, he check my spark plugs lol but didnt do an oil presure test, compression test, leakdown test. nothing. he nos im unhappy with it. and he could careless.

[keefer]

sadly it was brought up to him many times. i was asking questions and asked him 100 times it felt like if he could try or do something different. all i got was refusal from him.ill give him this, he check my spark plugs lol but didnt do an oil presure test, compression test, leakdown test. nothing. he nos im unhappy with it. and he could careless.


Well what was his exact response when you brought up the fact that you thought the car had more potential? He just blew you off or? I mean there had to be some sort of explanation..?

[DelSol95]

he said there is either something wrong in the bottom end. witch he did not test to prove his theory. then he said every motor is diffrent and some make power some dont. he said tuning wise there was nothing else he can do.

[Foolinaround]

he thinks something is wrong with the motor,he aint gonna push it and hive it blow up,like we said 2 pages ago.

[DelSol95]

haha maybe. sat were gonna test everything again and triple check. its what ever tho. we will see when i get tuned else where to see if anyone can get the power out of it

[Honduh]

i dunno how many time i gotta tell u, the vtec is at 7k. if u can read the dyno sheet not my fault. i could careless if u dont like b20vtec.com they tell it how it is. and when i do get retuned i will be sure to let u guys no what it does. i spoke with 5 or 6 places today and everyone of them asked if he checked compression leak down valve lash ect. jeff didnt do any of that. so from a tuning perspective if its not making power he should no why its not making power. not just say im beat give me my money.

Ok if I can't read a dyno sheet please explain. Where is the sudden power from at 6500 right 'before' its switching over to the big lobes. To me it looks like before that jump the low side of the cam is running out of breath and starting to flatten out.

Also I don't think you mentioned before that jeff thought there was a problem in your bottom end. If he is still using his roller dyno for fwd cars than the last thing he wants is your motor to pop and pour oil all over his dyno brakes and **** up the his next few tuning sessions, or to cause you more problems than you already have.

It clearly states on his website that if he sees anything he doesn't not aprove of that your session will be cut short. And I don't think diagnosing internal engine problems is part of a tuning session, though I could be wrong.

As always there are two sides to a story i'd love to hear what jeff has to say, which is why I said to post this on boosted-hybrid.

Your hostility towards any constuctive critism is rather pig headed by acting like there is nothing wrong or different than your motor than others that put out big numbers.

[DelSol95]

to make sure im correct. i called 5 tuners. to see if im correct, and when jeff said he thinks its the bottom end not making power because something aint right, then as a tuner you should back ur theory up, witch the tuners i called they said of course they would do a oil presure test leak down test and compression test. takes 15 mins. im sorry if i came off to u mad or "pig headed" but to double check i checked the parameters on my s300 and the vtec is at 6999k rpms.

[DelSol95]

Im not mad at the power nor the vtec just the lack of respect and poor business man. say my mechanic is going to take the car sat and do all the tests jeff should have done and at that point he is going to repair it if need be. But just assuming something and telling someone there beat in other words is pathetic

[screamingdsm]

Well how you represent yourself is a big thing also. Being able to explain why something isnt working right is also good to do...but you also gotta understand internet hear say puts things like (its 30hp short) in our minds. Just because this orange taste good, dosent mean the next one is gonna be the same. He is not gonna be able to make everyone happy, because everyone expects if they add together the same equation there gonna get the same answer...dosent work like that.

Something for you to try. Start from scratch on your tune, and go to a dyno and tune it yourself. See how much power YOU can make on YOUR tune...Try to learn how stuff works its fun trust me.

I tune alot of cars, including mine. I went to the track on my tune and guessed what it would go before I went...sure enough it went that. Guessed about what it should make on the dyno because of the time, sure enough it did.

I also see you got cams and adjustable cam gears? Was your block milled down any? Is the head gasket thicker/thinner? Different compression, head porting or anything? Did you degree the cams in, and make adjustments on them to mess with the power band before, or after the new setup?

[Evans-Tuning.com]

so i went to jeff evans tunning today to get my engine tuned. he put it on the dyno and did 3 pulls. worked the laptop a little. and said he was done in 45 mins. this motor has been built before from the same mechanic with a few less mods. and make 225whp. well jeff tryed telling me he can only get 190whp out of my setup. and has vtec set at 7THOUSAND rpms. and redline at 8800. i feel like i got ripped off and he pretty much ripped me off. what do u guys think? and this is the build.

might be forgetting some things

There is one thing in this whole mess of a thread that you’ve said that makes sense and that’s that you “might be forgetting some things.”

First, I did significantly more than 3 dyno pulls with your car. I can post up proof of this tomorrow if necessary after I go to the shop and pull up the files on the dyno computer. The tuning session was NOT 45 minutes. Even if we go with your “he was 20 mins late” and let’s say we started at 11:30am, I did not charge your credit card until the tuning session was done, which was just before 2:45pm. I have proof of this too if you’d like me to post it up.

Second, I loaded a stock GSR calibration onto the s300, made some changes, got the idle smooth, set base timing to 16 degrees. I tuned the partial throttle mapping and started doing WOT low cam pulls to map the low cam VE. I believe I made 5-6 pulls on the low cam to dial in the VE completely. Next, I locked vtec at 3000rpm and made WOT pulls to 8400rpm to tune the high cam VE maps. The low and high cam torque curves crossed at 6900rpm, which is where I set vtec at. Doing this is basic b-series vtec tuning. After 10-12 pulls I had a solid base tune on the car (approx. 178whp) before any other adjustments were made. You insisted at this point that there was no way that vtec could be set at 7000rpm and that I must be doing something wrong. I then took the time to do something that I knew wasn’t going to make a difference because of the fact that you kept complaining about it. I set vtec to 5000, 5500, 6000, 6500, and then 7000rpm to show you that at any point below 6900rpm there was a torque dip because vtec was not at an optimal point.

There have been at least 50-60 other b-series motors that have run the Pro 2 cams and 90% of them have had vtec set at 5700-5900rpm range. I told you that, but I did not have any specific reason why your motor did not want vtec there. Maybe you don’t have Pro 2 cams in there??

The next step was to adjust the cam gears to see if any more power could be picked up. Given the fact that you stated they were Pro 2 cams, there is a very specific cam gear range that the cam gears have to be set in. I stayed within this window in order to avoid valve to valve or valve to piston contact. The gears were already set within the range they needed to be and I advanced them a little to see if there was any more power to be found. There may have been a 1-2whp difference, but nothing significant.

You were still convinced that I wasn’t doing something right. I told you that your intake tubing of 2.5” was not large enough and causing a restriction. I could look at the datalog and see the motor dropping back into vacuum at high rpm, which tells me that there is an intake restriction of some sort. I pulled off your strut tower brace, pulled off your CAI, and installed my custom 3” long tube intake that I have around the shop (at no additional charge to you). Baseline pull with the larger intake on the power jumped from 178whp to 188whp with a 5ft/lbs increase in torque. I cleaned up the a/f and picked up another 1-2whp.

You still weren’t happy and insisted that I still wasn’t doing something right. I told you that your 60mm exhaust could be a restriction with the cam size. I jacked your car up, dropped the exhaust down (which was a PITA), and made some pulls. Baseline pull with the exhaust dropped the car made 197whp and another 3ft/lbs torque midrange. I made some changes to clean up the a/f, but no major change in power. Again, I dropped the exhaust at no charge to you.

So at this point, I’ve made two major mechanical changes to your car and picked up approx. 19whp from the tuned map with the exact parts and configuration your car came in with. How many more parts should I have changed in order for you to be happy? Perhaps I should have kept changing parts until you made the 225whp you had in your head and then we wouldn’t be sitting here having this discussion. In addition, I told you that your stock throttle body and stock Type R intake manifold needed to be changed and that you’d likely pick up another 10-12whp. The specific intake and throttle body I told you to upgrade to are what that motor that was making 225whp was running. Perhaps you wanted me to change this at the shop, on the dyno, not charge you labor, and give you the parts - would that have made you happy?

You are sitting here stating that I had a bad attitude at the tuning session, but you had a bad attitude the moment you realized the car wasn’t making good power and it didn’t get any better even with me taking the extra time to change parts and pick up nearly 20whp.

After I put your car back to the way it was when it came in with your parts, you insisted that I put your basemap that you drove in to my shop on. I did not provide this map. I did a pull on the dyno making no changes to this map. Vtec was set at 5000rpm in this map. Guess what happened? Huge torque dip from 5000-7000rpm and a whopping 170whp. Ultimately, from this basemap that you came in on to the map I made, the tuning I did, and the mechanical changes I made to your car, you picked up approx. 27whp and appox. 10ft/lbs of torque.


As for the fact that I didn’t do a compression or leakdown test - those are specific things that I point out in my pre-tuning checklist that you need to address before you come for tuning. It is your responsibility to make sure that your car is ready to be tuned and that your engine is healthy. Furthermore, just looking at how much vacuum the motor pulls at idle will give me an indication of how well the motor is sealing up. Other than the low power numbers there was nothing that indicated there was anything wrong with the motor.

As I told you, there are some motors that just don’t make power and others that make more than expected. What funny is that when I have one of those that makes more than expected all I hear is how my dyno reads high. When I have a car that doesn’t make as much as is expected it becomes an issue of me not knowing what I’m doing. I can’t win either way.


People seem to think that I can just wave a magic wand over the car and have it make power. Tuning does not work that way. Tuning optimizes the parts and set up that you have - nothing more, nothing less. I tried to tell you this when you were at the shop, but you did not want to hear it.

To anyone that had asked - No, Steve (the OP) did not contact me about this issue before posting up this thread. I received an email from him for the first time regarding this issue tonight at 6pm.

Lastly, Steve - you came and made this thread and lied from the second sentence. How do I know that the parts that you say you have on your car are what you actually have? Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe anything that you say when you can sit here and lie about basic stuff from the tuning session? Before you go and start a thread wanting to trash me, you should at least tell the truth and give everyone full details....

[screamingdsm]

Jeff get one of these, you can make everyone happy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOaaG-IpKLg

[Evans-Tuning.com]

Over the years ive took many of my own cars to jeff and sent customer cars there some made power and some didnt. If there was ever an issue some bull **** statement was made in regard to why there was an issue,but never any stone cold evidence as to why there was an issue.Even after all of that it was never a big deal because i trusted him and continued to do business with him. Than i had my si up there and had it tuned which went fine and we had a good day about 3 months later my ecu took a dump so i contacted jeff and i sent him an NEW ecu which he said he would chip it and put my map on it. I get the ecu back and the car ran..... But something just didnt feel the same. That wasn't a huge deal because i really didn't ever drive the car and i was looking to sell it so i didnt make a big deal. Point for my story the guy i sold it to took the car to clm racing in newark to have the car tuned and just looked over. Ive never meet any of these guys in my life and ive known jeff for about 8 years or so. Clm states And i quote.............. Build is perfect mechanically, theres not one issue with the car, but it just dosent feel right.The map thats on the car is clearly not for that car says cuhna.The car had a t67 ho on a 1.8l engine the map that was on there was for a 1.6l t3/to4e. Hummm something not right with this guy... My car made 480whp at 18psi ish. Clm made 578whp with another 2 psi humm.. Is someone scaming people i do think so. How is it that this del sol with nothing wrong with it makes 25+ hp less than any other setup of any equal build. He has a perfect running car with all new parts that doesn't make any sense. Compression tests great,leak down is within spec., engine is built within spec of any honda engine build, valves are adjusted to spec from skunk2. And yet jeff has no facts as to why this is.... SHADY! Sounds like he didnt want to take the time to figure anything out, just collect a quick check from some unknowing person. Whats the kid to do not pay him and have no ride home???? Not even from a mechanics point of view, just a normal business aspect your only in business because of your customers and if you treat them like garbage you wont be in business forever... You can only screw over so many people before you run out of people to screw.......

The fact that we "hate each other" is news to me. I never once ever said anything negative about you. Even when Steve (the OP) was sitting there telling me that he was talking to you during the tuning session via text messages and that you were telling him that I was doing something wrong I still had nothing negative to say about you. I tried to explain to him that some motors just don't make power - regardless of who builds them. I appreciate all of the business you have sent me over the years and have always done my best to take care of you.

In regards to the ecu chipping situation - you sent me an ecu which I chipped and put your tuned map in. I certainly did not put another map from another car into your ecu. In regards to what CLM racing told you - it's 100% BS. Given the fact that it was NepTune that you were using and the fact that they didn't have a NepTune license to tune the car with, there is absolutely no way that they could even look at the tune file and see what information it had. Aside from that, I NEVER filled anything in the notes section of the .bin file. Their equivalent of NepTune is Crome. You can't open a NepTune file in Crome. On top of that, the only way you can get information off an eeprom chip is to use a burner and read the .bin file. It's all in programming code. Unless you have that specific tuning software there is NOTHING you can do with that file other than burn another eeprom with it.

In regards to the car making another 100whp with 2 more pounds of boost - I will call complete BS. Your T3/T67 h.o. turbo with ITR cams and stock sleeves is not going to produce 50whp more per pound of boost. Either something else was changed on the car (i.e. cams will make another 100whp easily) or somebody else is feeding you a line...

I've been tuning cars for too long to buy a b.s. statement like that and if you believe that your car with no changes from the time it was at my shop picked up 100whp from 2 more pounds of boost, then you have a lot to learn. You specifically told me to put a conservative tune on the car because you were planning to sell it. That's what I did. Even if I did an "aggressive" tune, there may have only be another 20whp or so to be had.

You, Ron, and Jay were really cool guys that I liked working with. I have no idea where any of this animosity comes from. In fact, this is the first I'm hearing of it.

[DelSol95]

There is one thing in this whole mess of a thread that you’ve said that makes sense and that’s that you “might be forgetting some things.”

First, I did significantly more than 3 dyno pulls with your car. I can post up proof of this tomorrow if necessary after I go to the shop and pull up the files on the dyno computer. The tuning session was NOT 45 minutes. Even if we go with your “he was 20 mins late” and let’s say we started at 11:30am, I did not charge your credit card until the tuning session was done, which was just before 2:45pm. I have proof of this too if you’d like me to post it up.

Second, I loaded a stock GSR calibration onto the s300, made some changes, got the idle smooth, set base timing to 16 degrees. I tuned the partial throttle mapping and started doing WOT low cam pulls to map the low cam VE. I believe I made 5-6 pulls on the low cam to dial in the VE completely. Next, I locked vtec at 3000rpm and made WOT pulls to 8400rpm to tune the high cam VE maps. The low and high cam torque curves crossed at 6900rpm, which is where I set vtec at. Doing this is basic b-series vtec tuning. After 10-12 pulls I had a solid base tune on the car (approx. 178whp) before any other adjustments were made. You insisted at this point that there was no way that vtec could be set at 7000rpm and that I must be doing something wrong. I then took the time to do something that I knew wasn’t going to make a difference because of the fact that you kept complaining about it. I set vtec to 5000, 5500, 6000, 6500, and then 7000rpm to show you that at any point below 6900rpm there was a torque dip because vtec was not at an optimal point.

There have been at least 50-60 other b-series motors that have run the Pro 2 cams and 90% of them have had vtec set at 5700-5900rpm range. I told you that, but I did not have any specific reason why your motor did not want vtec there. Maybe you don’t have Pro 2 cams in there??

The next step was to adjust the cam gears to see if any more power could be picked up. Given the fact that you stated they were Pro 2 cams, there is a very specific cam gear range that the cam gears have to be set in. I stayed within this window in order to avoid valve to valve or valve to piston contact. The gears were already set within the range they needed to be and I advanced them a little to see if there was any more power to be found. There may have been a 1-2whp difference, but nothing significant.

You were still convinced that I wasn’t doing something right. I told you that your intake tubing of 2.5” was not large enough and causing a restriction. I could look at the datalog and see the motor dropping back into vacuum at high rpm, which tells me that there is an intake restriction of some sort. I pulled off your strut tower brace, pulled off your CAI, and installed my custom 3” long tube intake that I have around the shop (at no additional charge to you). Baseline pull with the larger intake on the power jumped from 178whp to 188whp with a 5ft/lbs increase in torque. I cleaned up the a/f and picked up another 1-2whp.

You still weren’t happy and insisted that I still wasn’t doing something right. I told you that your 60mm exhaust could be a restriction with the cam size. I jacked your car up, dropped the exhaust down (which was a PITA), and made some pulls. Baseline pull with the exhaust dropped the car made 197whp and another 3ft/lbs torque midrange. I made some changes to clean up the a/f, but no major change in power. Again, I dropped the exhaust at no charge to you.

So at this point, I’ve made two major mechanical changes to your car and picked up approx. 19whp from the tuned map with the exact parts and configuration your car came in with. How many more parts should I have changed in order for you to be happy? Perhaps I should have kept changing parts until you made the 225whp you had in your head and then we wouldn’t be sitting here having this discussion. In addition, I told you that your stock throttle body and stock Type R intake manifold needed to be changed and that you’d likely pick up another 10-12whp. The specific intake and throttle body I told you to upgrade to are what that motor that was making 225whp was running. Perhaps you wanted me to change this at the shop, on the dyno, not charge you labor, and give you the parts - would that have made you happy?

You are sitting here stating that I had a bad attitude at the tuning session, but you had a bad attitude the moment you realized the car wasn’t making good power and it didn’t get any better even with me taking the extra time to change parts and pick up nearly 20whp.

After I put your car back to the way it was when it came in with your parts, you insisted that I put your basemap that you drove in to my shop on. I did not provide this map. I did a pull on the dyno making no changes to this map. Vtec was set at 5000rpm in this map. Guess what happened? Huge torque dip from 5000-7000rpm and a whopping 170whp. Ultimately, from this basemap that you came in on to the map I made, the tuning I did, and the mechanical changes I made to your car, you picked up approx. 27whp and appox. 10ft/lbs of torque.


As for the fact that I didn’t do a compression or leakdown test - those are specific things that I point out in my pre-tuning checklist that you need to address before you come for tuning. It is your responsibility to make sure that your car is ready to be tuned and that your engine is healthy. Furthermore, just looking at how much vacuum the motor pulls at idle will give me an indication of how well the motor is sealing up. Other than the low power numbers there was nothing that indicated there was anything wrong with the motor.

As I told you, there are some motors that just don’t make power and others that make more than expected. What funny is that when I have one of those that makes more than expected all I hear is how my dyno reads high. When I have a car that doesn’t make as much as is expected it becomes an issue of me not knowing what I’m doing. I can’t win either way.


People seem to think that I can just wave a magic wand over the car and have it make power. Tuning does not work that way. Tuning optimizes the parts and set up that you have - nothing more, nothing less. I tried to tell you this when you were at the shop, but you did not want to hear it.

To anyone that had asked - No, Steve (the OP) did not contact me about this issue before posting up this thread. I received an email from him for the first time regarding this issue tonight at 6pm.

Lastly, Steve - you came and made this thread and lied from the second sentence. How do I know that the parts that you say you have on your car are what you actually have? Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe anything that you say when you can sit here and lie about basic stuff from the tuning session? Before you go and start a thread wanting to trash me, you should at least tell the truth and give everyone full details....




hey if u read thru the thread i did give u credit about tuning the vtec at 5-6-7k and also gave u credit with the intake and open header. wasn't in the first post but i did give u credit for that. what pisses me off is after u got what u got number wise, u blamed it on the build. instantly u said bottom end. i feel that if u really thought it was the bottom end and i was giving u **** for it, u should have ran the test to prove me wrong. but u didn't. and i insisted that u did, and u didn't. u did the simple stuff with the intake and exhaust and got it up to 197, and thought that would be a easy way out. u didn't do what u had to do. u were on the phone saying how this car was a nightmare etc. dealing with some alarm guy while trying to tune my car. not cool.its funny how i try emailing u and talking to u the day of the appointment and don't get anything out of u but i start this thread and instant reply. i feel like you could have done a better more professional job. the numbers are what they are, but i just hope u don't treat all ur customers like this. and as for the cams ect. as for you not believing there aren't the pro2 cams in there i have pictures of them being installed. along with everything else.

[Grounded]

The plot thickens

[EklipzGSXkid]

If you do not like your tune, And you think that your current tuner did something wrong, Then easily drive the car to another shop, And have them re-tune the car. See what power it makes. If it makes more, Great, If it makes less, Complain again, And if it makes the same, You know it's not the tuner.

[BCSpeed]

I want to start by saying The words we hate each other never came from my mouth.... As far as my car goes the car ran like **** after you sent me that new ecu, But like i said i never made a big deal about it because i was selling the car. Than to hear from someone else that i don't know, that someone i trusted stuck it up my ass. For lack of better words. What else would you think???? When you tuned the car i did say just make it safe and that was fine. Theses guys didn't change a thing on the car and made 100whp more it once again made me think. But Once again i didn't make a big deal. But when i send one of my customers to you in good faith you couldn't even help the kid out like it was to good for you or something..... I remember at one point when you would help you customers out and thus being the reason you became know as a great tuner. Now you have made it clear by your posts,your replys on any site and even comments on your own site, that people should be honored for you tune there cars. The lack of respect that you displayed to someone i personally know and speak highly of... IS unacceptable... And its pretty unprofessional for such a BIG business man to come on here and try and bad mouth your customer.Who are you to say that steve dose not have skunk 2 cam or make any assumption of something being shady. He has no reason to lie or make some bull**** up. I bought the cams and all like parts for him............. He is a paying customer and by that you should treat him like that. Not treat him like some second class person. I was on the phone with him for about the entire day and not once did you say just let me talk to mike or better yet try to figure out the deal with his car. NOT one engine i have ever built blew up on your dyno so you should have No reason to start second guessing my work. And if you thought i did something wrong you should have proved it not just make an assumption.

[Racersky]

This thread is getting pretty interesting now.

[Honduh]

hey if u read thru the thread i did give u credit about tuning the vtec at 5-6-7k and also gave u credit with the intake and open header. wasn't in the first post but i did give u credit for that.

Actually you didn't mention anything about him replacing the intake or dropping down the exhaust, I read through this thread 2 times just to make sure I didn't miss it. And yes you did say that he changed vtec engagment 3 times but from how you made it sound they were the only pulls he made.

Infact you said it 3 times;

we dyno'd it at 5k-6k-and 7k vtec limits. with vtec at 5k it bogged down. but he didnt change anything to compensate ignition or fuel aka he didnt tune it

bottom line was he did a few pulls, didnt get the numbers that he thought it would make. didnt really feel like adjusting anything. and said i was beat all within 45 mins.

sadly it was brought up to him many times. i was asking questions and asked him 100 times it felt like if he could try or do something different. all i got was refusal from him.ill give him this, he check my spark plugs lol but didnt do an oil presure test, compression test, leakdown test. nothing. he nos im unhappy with it. and he could careless.


Also, you said this;

so from a tuning perspective if its not making power he should no why its not making power. not just say im beat give me my money.

From what it sounds like he told you that the TB and intake manifold were holding it back, but you happened to forget that in your little bash thread you made here.

And from what Jeff says, you do not know how to read a clock, because you were there for 195 minutes, not 45. Where did you even get that from? WTF man.

I'm actually glad you made this thread. It shows me why Jeff runs such a tight set up because he doesn't want people like you, who clearly know nothing about tuning, expect him to work magic and make it hit some perfect number.

In the long run, this thread will probably end up making him LOSE money because some impressionable young kids or new people to the tuning seen may see this and now thing that Jeff Evans is some sort of fraud and will tell all their idiot friends the same thing.

Good job.

[DelSol95]

Actually you didn't mention anything about him replacing the intake or dropping down the exhaust, I read through this thread 2 times just to make sure I didn't miss it. And yes you did say that he changed vtec engagment 3 times but from how you made it sound they were the only pulls he made.

Infact you said it 3 times;



i



Also, you said this;



From what it sounds like he told you that the TB and intake manifold were holding it back, but you happened to forget that in your little bash thread you made here.

And from what Jeff says, you do not know how to read a clock, because you were there for 195 minutes, not 45. Where did you even get that from? WTF man.

I'm actually glad you made this thread. It shows me why Jeff runs such a tight set up because he doesn't want people like you, who clearly know nothing about tuning, expect him to work magic and make it hit some perfect number.

In the long run, this thread will probably end up making him LOSE money because some impressionable young kids or new people to the tuning seen may see this and now thing that Jeff Evans is some sort of fraud and will tell all their idiot friends the same thing.

Good job.


ive been trying to hold back from saying this but hop off his dick dude. i walked out of there with the same tune that he did in 45 mins. and he states that i insisted for him to try more things. he took a cold air intake off! matter of a whole 2 mins to loosen a screw and pull it aside. big ****ing deal. oh and he dropped the exhaust witch was 2 bolts and that took a whole 4 mins and 32 seconds. if u wanna be on his side then be on his side. i dont no if you ever got tuned by him or not. im just stating my side of the storey. and like i said. hop of his dick, seems like this dude has u brain washed or something. and when it comes to b20vtec. not one good thing about jeff. because they arent scared to tell the truth. its what ever tho yo rught? cuz dey all black yo? raciest mother ****er

[04specsonnn]

yeahhhhhh steveee!

[Evans-Tuning.com]

hey if u read thru the thread i did give u credit about tuning the vtec at 5-6-7k and also gave u credit with the intake and open header. wasn't in the first post but i did give u credit for that. what pisses me off is after u got what u got number wise, u blamed it on the build. instantly u said bottom end. i feel that if u really thought it was the bottom end and i was giving u **** for it, u should have ran the test to prove me wrong. but u didn't. and i insisted that u did, and u didn't. u did the simple stuff with the intake and exhaust and got it up to 197, and thought that would be a easy way out. u didn't do what u had to do. u were on the phone saying how this car was a nightmare etc. dealing with some alarm guy while trying to tune my car. not cool.its funny how i try emailing u and talking to u the day of the appointment and don't get anything out of u but i start this thread and instant reply. i feel like you could have done a better more professional job. the numbers are what they are, but i just hope u don't treat all ur customers like this. and as for the cams ect. as for you not believing there aren't the pro2 cams in there i have pictures of them being installed. along with everything else.

Its really sad that you just dont know what tuning is all about. Your car was "tuned" for the parts you came in with. I changed parts, picked up power and you still were not happy. What exactly do you want me to change? Your a/f was dialed in, timing was dialed and cam gears were adjusted in the safe range of adjustment. There is nothing else to change! I dont have a magic wand to wave over your car for that 20-30 whp that you are "missing." It just does not work like that.

As far as having to take 10-15 minutes away from your tuning appointment for the ADT security that was coming out to update our system, yes I did. What do you want me to do? Make him go away and come back when your car was done? That is not realistic. I had no idea when he was going to show up, so its not like I scheduled him to come specifically when your car was there. I was "more into our new shop than your car" is just beyond me. Is that because I was wiping up all the grease your car slung on the floor from the ripped axle boot? Lol, i have no idea.

You were extremely rude pretty much as soon as the car was not making power. You keep insisting that I am not doing something right, and complained the entire time. Again even after taking time to change things on your set-up to make more power you still complained. I kept trying to tell you that there is really not much more to adjust, and you just did not want to listen. That is plain and simple.

Bottom line is that there was nothing additional to adjust. Some engines just dont make good power, even stock. I see 5-15 whp variances in OEM honda engines that baseline on the dyno. Does honda not know what they are doing in that case? Your almost 200 whp with a stock bore/stroke ls/vtec set-up is a little on the low side but still not that bad. I am sorry that your particular engine didnt make what 1 engine did on my site awhile back made. Its funny that Mike built the engine based on that customers engine with the parts list from my forum and I tuned that car. Your engine doesnt make the same power, now your all pissed off and want to point fingers. I hate to tell you this but I tuned that particular car in about 10-12 pulls total, and was done in under 2 hours. Time has nothing to do with the tune quality, its the knowledge and experience to know what/how to changes things to make power.

[Evans-Tuning.com]

I want to start by saying The words we hate each other never came from my mouth.... As far as my car goes the car ran like **** after you sent me that new ecu, But like i said i never made a big deal about it because i was selling the car. Than to hear from someone else that i don't know, that someone i trusted stuck it up my ass. For lack of better words. What else would you think???? When you tuned the car i did say just make it safe and that was fine. Theses guys didn't change a thing on the car and made 100whp more it once again made me think. But Once again i didn't make a big deal. But when i send one of my customers to you in good faith you couldn't even help the kid out like it was to good for you or something..... I remember at one point when you would help you customers out and thus being the reason you became know as a great tuner. Now you have made it clear by your posts,your replys on any site and even comments on your own site, that people should be honored for you tune there cars. The lack of respect that you displayed to someone i personally know and speak highly of... IS unacceptable... And its pretty unprofessional for such a BIG business man to come on here and try and bad mouth your customer.Who are you to say that steve dose not have skunk 2 cam or make any assumption of something being shady. He has no reason to lie or make some bull**** up. I bought the cams and all like parts for him............. He is a paying customer and by that you should treat him like that. Not treat him like some second class person. I was on the phone with him for about the entire day and not once did you say just let me talk to mike or better yet try to figure out the deal with his car. NOT one engine i have ever built blew up on your dyno so you should have No reason to start second guessing my work. And if you thought i did something wrong you should have proved it not just make an assumption.

Mike, why in the world did you not contact me about how the car ran? I looked through both my emails and PM history on our forums and there was NOTHING said. You know that I would have taken care of an issue for you. I want to know if there is an issue.

I actually looked back concerning the whole ecu situation to see what was said/happened. Here is a PM from me back to you:

Re: ecu

Sent: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:45 am
by boosted hybrid

I bench tested your current ecu. The eeprom chip was in backwards, so I am assuming you must have taken it out at some point in time. I reversed the eeprom in the socket, and it seemed to function properly on the bench tester. Just to be safe I socketed the other ecu, and burned your tuned onto another eeprom for that ecu. You now have 2 ecus with the same eeprom in them. I labeled your old one "old" and the new one "new" on the ecu lid tops. I will have both of the ecus shipped back to you tomorrow with the hondata gasket.


You had both ecus, and 2 eeprom chips. If one was wrong, the other should have worked. If neither was running correctly you should have said something to me, bottomline. Not throw me under the bus down the road. I stand behind what I do and wouldnt have "put it up your ass" as you like to have put it.

Mike, what would you have liked me to do in this situation? Really, I want to know. I took extra time to change parts, which were a restriction on his set-up and made more power. I put a good tune on the car for the parts/set-up that he had. I was not skeptical of the engine build at all. I tuned the engine the same as this other magic "225whp" build from along time ago. The engine did not make good power, nothing was obvious external to the engine. Do you want me to rip apart the engine and start checking things? I am just trying to get my head around things here.

Lastly, your customer was rude. Bottom line. He questioned everything I was doing from the moment the engine did not make good power. I would have loved to talk with you on the phone, especially if I knew that you had an issue with what I was doing. You could have easily asked to speak with me if you genuinely felt that way. I would have rather spoke with you on the phone about this instead of fighting on some forum....:cyberguy:

**I'm done with this thread. I'm not going to keep arguing back and forth about this. I've said my piece and anyone who reads this can make their own decision about whether or not they'd want to do business with me. In fact, I'm glad that Steve posted this thread up because I've actually already had a couple of people contact me through PMs here and via email about tuning their cars.

[importpower99]

Oh snap! It's always good to hear both sides of the story.

[BCSpeed]

First:Neither ecu or chip ran the vehicle as it did in the past. I didn't say any anything, like i said in the past because it was a big deal to me. But when people are telling me things which i blow off and then my customer has a bad time at your shop i cant blow things off any longer.

Second: Just because you didn't include my name in the sentence, you knew i built the motor. So the statements you made in regard to the block being built incorrectly were directed at me. And knowing me an our relationship you should have looked past that, as i did when i heard statements in regard to you......

Thrid: If you going to make an assumption about a bottom end issue back it up. And no one was asking you to do anything for FREE... We all understand that time is money. But you should have offered tested services with a Fee... And you did not do so... So here we sit acting like children due to your lack of simple business practices. IE: If you went to the doctor and he said you had H1N1 would he just give you meds and make an assumption... NOOO!! He would test you to prove his thoughts and assumptions... You need to go back to your drawing board and rethink the way you treat paying customers if you want to be in business with this evolving economy.. I'm done with this.

[Foolinaround]

You and the OP need to just shut up and admit that you were both telling half the story, instead of trying to bash someone you wouldnt think would find this topic.

[Honduh]

and when it comes to b20vtec. not one good thing about jeff. because they arent scared to tell the truth. its what ever tho yo rught? cuz dey all black yo? raciest mother ****er

Yes, I'm a racist because I don't like reading a forum where people can't spell, speak with the traditional english language, or use single letters to represent an entire word.....right. reach alittle harder.

Maybe you don't like jeff because he is white......(that's a joke).

And with that I'm done with this joke of a thread.

[Racersky]

I've been tuned by Jeff Evans before way back then and with the service he offered me at the time I was very pleased. It sucks that you were offered bad service if that was the truth not saying I'm taking anyone's side.

[Khellen]

Yes, I'm a racist because I don't like reading a forum where people can't spell, speak with the traditional english language, or use single letters to represent an entire word.....right. reach alittle harder.

Maybe you don't like jeff because he is white......(that's a joke).

And with that I'm done with this joke of a thread.


responce

No need to go to another forum to find people who can't spell.

[BCSpeed]

Kill me i cant spell. Please.. Get a life bro....

[igo4bmx]

In regards to the ecu chipping situation - you sent me an ecu which I chipped and put your tuned map in. I certainly did not put another map from another car into your ecu. In regards to what CLM racing told you - it's 100% BS. Given the fact that it was NepTune that you were using and the fact that they didn't have a NepTune license to tune the car with, there is absolutely no way that they could even look at the tune file and see what information it had. Aside from that, I NEVER filled anything in the notes section of the .bin file. Their equivalent of NepTune is Crome. You can't open a NepTune file in Crome. On top of that, the only way you can get information off an eeprom chip is to use a burner and read the .bin file. It's all in programming code. Unless you have that specific tuning software there is NOTHING you can do with that file other than burn another eeprom with it.


haha there you go- if they were trying to read a neptune bin, they were just BSing you.


I will still back up evans even though he caled evo's crap and now I own one lol;

[R22B]

I don't like Honda's all that much and I never met Jeff, but he seems like a stand up guy from the forum post.

[DelSol95]

haha there you go- if they were trying to read a neptune bin, they were just BSing you.


I will still back up evans even though he caled evo's crap and now I own one lol;


this is my last post about this but still funny how he told u evos are crap yet he dailys one haha.

later

[TROLL]

I dont know the OP or Jeff Evans, and I obviously wasn't there to see this first hand, but here's what it seems like to me:

OP wasn't happy with the power he made... he didn't try to work this out with the tuner directly but instead made a negative thread on multiple forums about it. OP has not gone to another tuner to see if there really is room for improvement, he is guessing that his motor should make more power even though the fact is that every motor and every setup varies. OP does not have 100% of the information, but is assuming that the blame lies on the tuner, and is acting on that now without hesitation.

These are irresponsible actions in my eyes. When you bash on a business without knowing 100% what the situation is and without trying to deal with them directly first, you are risking their reputation without any solid foundation. Its unfortunate that you had a bad experience there but I'd have to think it was just as much your attitude as it was his. I'm sure you weren't happy with your numbers but sometimes it is what it is. I know that Jeff has a ton of experience tuning and you went to him because he's the expert, right? So trust what he has to say and don't come to his shop and then tell him he's doing it wrong.

If he did that extra work on your car with the intake and exhaust and didn't charge you, you should be thanking him. I'm sure it took some time to take both off, do some pulls, then put them back on. He didn't have to do that, and he did prove a point that there are at least a couple things holding your setup back, and he nailed them first shot.

I've had some experiences with shops where I wasn't happy, but I don't run to the internet as soon as you get home to jeopardize their reputation to hundreds or thousands of people who may read about it. Sorry, but thats not in your best interest and its certainly not in the business' either. Talk to them, try to work it out, and most importantly keep in mind that you might be the one who's in the wrong in the end after all.

[ur lozin]

I dont know the OP or Jeff Evans, and I obviously wasn't there to see this first hand, but here's what it seems like to me:

OP wasn't happy with the power he made... he didn't try to work this out with the tuner directly but instead made a negative thread on multiple forums about it. OP has not gone to another tuner to see if there really is room for improvement, he is guessing that his motor should make more power even though the fact is that every motor and every setup varies. OP does not have 100% of the information, but is assuming that the blame lies on the tuner, and is acting on that now without hesitation.

These are irresponsible actions in my eyes. When you bash on a business without knowing 100% what the situation is and without trying to deal with them directly first, you are risking their reputation without any solid foundation. Its unfortunate that you had a bad experience there but I'd have to think it was just as much your attitude as it was his. I'm sure you weren't happy with your numbers but sometimes it is what it is. I know that Jeff has a ton of experience tuning and you went to him because he's the expert, right? So trust what he has to say and don't come to his shop and then tell him he's doing it wrong.

If he did that extra work on your car with the intake and exhaust and didn't charge you, you should be thanking him. I'm sure it took some time to take both off, do some pulls, then put them back on. He didn't have to do that, and he did prove a point that there are at least a couple things holding your setup back, and he nailed them first shot.

I've had some experiences with shops where I wasn't happy, but I don't run to the internet as soon as you get home to jeopardize their reputation to hundreds or thousands of people who may read about it. Sorry, but thats not in your best interest and its certainly not in the business' either. Talk to them, try to work it out, and most importantly keep in mind that you might be the one who's in the wrong in the end after all.

:iagree:

[xEJ20x]

I'm not part of the Honda world....but even I have heard of Jeff Evans reputation as being top notch.

[RyanG]

Troll,

very well said. I think that a lot of people on the forums can learn from that advice

[noclutch]

The OP is obviously a jerkoff who doesn't understand how tuners operate. He's not there to fix your car, replace parts or diagnose problems with the build. He's there to tune it, the fact that he was switching parts on the dyno to try to find your restrictions to make you happy tells me that he was going above and beyond for you.

I could just imagine what he had to go through with the OP sitting in his shop telling him that he was doing his job wrong for 2+hrs.


I agree with this:

I dont know the OP or Jeff Evans, and I obviously wasn't there to see this first hand, but here's what it seems like to me:

OP wasn't happy with the power he made... he didn't try to work this out with the tuner directly but instead made a negative thread on multiple forums about it. OP has not gone to another tuner to see if there really is room for improvement, he is guessing that his motor should make more power even though the fact is that every motor and every setup varies. OP does not have 100% of the information, but is assuming that the blame lies on the tuner, and is acting on that now without hesitation.

These are irresponsible actions in my eyes. When you bash on a business without knowing 100% what the situation is and without trying to deal with them directly first, you are risking their reputation without any solid foundation. Its unfortunate that you had a bad experience there but I'd have to think it was just as much your attitude as it was his. I'm sure you weren't happy with your numbers but sometimes it is what it is. I know that Jeff has a ton of experience tuning and you went to him because he's the expert, right? So trust what he has to say and don't come to his shop and then tell him he's doing it wrong.

If he did that extra work on your car with the intake and exhaust and didn't charge you, you should be thanking him. I'm sure it took some time to take both off, do some pulls, then put them back on. He didn't have to do that, and he did prove a point that there are at least a couple things holding your setup back, and he nailed them first shot.

I've had some experiences with shops where I wasn't happy, but I don't run to the internet as soon as you get home to jeopardize their reputation to hundreds or thousands of people who may read about it. Sorry, but thats not in your best interest and its certainly not in the business' either. Talk to them, try to work it out, and most importantly keep in mind that you might be the one who's in the wrong in the end after all.

[sinner]

i love how most of the people who find this "hard to beleive" never even went there haha. why do u think i went to him? because i herd he was the best of the best to go to. you let me no how ur experience with him gos. could be different i hope. but im not the only one who has had a negative experience with him.

I find it hard to believe, and I have been there. My current setup was tuned by Jeff and he gave me great service. He spent 4-5 hours on my car and installed some odds and ends for free. He checked my plugs too. He seemed like a good guy. I don't know him personally but would certainly go back to him. His new shop was being renovated and he seemed to have allot going on but that's to be expected. I'm curious to see how the retune turns out too.

[peteyturbo]

This thread should be deleted.. I hate seeing stuff like this happen to honest buisness. The op is obviously in the wrong here and needs to do some homework.

[Racersky]

This thread should be deleted.. I hate seeing stuff like this happen to honest buisness. The op is obviously in the wrong here and needs to do some homework.


x2...

[peteyturbo]

This reminds me of the thread the idiot made about KrazyHouseCustoms after his motor blew up on the dyno..

[DelSol95]

I may look like the asshole but u guys are just making opinions. Maybe 2 of u have ever delt with him. I agree this should be deleted because everyone on here just knows everything. The people who actually have delt with him either hate him or love him. I had a ****ty expeierence with him. Some people had a great one. I'm over the entire thing. Maybe should be deleted untill I got tuned else where to proove everything that's still up in the air.

[Renegade_]

what pisses me off is after u got what u got number wise, u blamed it on the build. instantly u said bottom end. i feel that if u really thought it was the bottom end and i was giving u **** for it, u should have ran the test to prove me wrong.
So you now want him to do more free work? Just sayin. The tuner does what they can and evans has tuned more hondas than you have ever sat in. You are really saying that his knowledge in EFI is not on par with what you expect from the internet?

I bet the next tuner who blows up your car on the dyno will get a flame thread on here as well. You do know that it is on the owner to get the car 100% before the dyno session and if something blows up then despite who's fault it is... the tuner isn't the one who will be footing the bill. Its a risk you take when you choose a tuner. If it is someone who is outright dumb at tuning... ok, then you can bitch. But evans? Really? You chose him for a reason haha

[DelSol95]

I didn't ask for anything free. If he thought it was the bottom end (witch it wasn't) then he should have said hey for so many dollars more ill test it for you. I would have been more then willing to pay. But he didn't even offer the service. Its done and over with. It is what it is. I don't no why u guys keep posting saying the same thing.

[namdoogwerdna]

I didn't ask for anything free. If he thought it was the bottom end (witch it wasn't) then he should have said hey for so many dollars more ill test it for you. I would have been more then willing to pay. But he didn't even offer the service. Its done and over with. It is what it is. I don't no why u guys keep posting saying the same thing.

You opened the can of worms, don't get mad when people chime in.

He didnt need to offer any other service than the tune. No bottom end check, no test fitting new pipes, he didn't have to do ANYTHING.

People keep posting the same thing because it didn't seem to get through those arguing for your case. From what I read (which were only the posts in which people knew how to spell and formulate proper paragraphs) Jeff went above and beyond what he needed to do for you.

You were paying for an ecu tune, not an engine tune-up, diagnostics, or anything of that nature. He provided the service that you requested, and some more at no extra charge. It was not his responsibility to figure out what was wrong mechanically when your engine did not make the power you wanted (hmmph!), and you should not have come in here and posted a slanderous thread when you did not have the proper backing to warrant your claims.

[boost'd-s2k]

Hey guys wish I would have seen this thread sooner. When the OP referred to:
"my friend got his s2k boosted and had evans tune it. and should have made well over 400 hp. evans only got 280 out of it. and i dunno. jeff and the guy who built my motor hate eachother, so that could be something? i dunno. but ill find the real answer out when i get tuned again. vtec at 7k is just dumb imo"

That's me and I just want to clear up that my car making low power had nothing to do with Jeff tuning my car. Jeff is STILL trying to help me figure out what is wrong with my car. The power loss is mechanical. It's NOT in the tune.

I can't add a link so just add the (w w w) to the address below

s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=718956&st=75&#entry17892056

Any time I ever had a question for Jeff I got an answer within 24 hrs.
I know Steve (OP) and it seems like he just threw my situation in here just to make Jeff look bad when I talked to Steve after my tune I told him I WOULDNT go to anyone BUT Jeff and explained how he had spent hours checking over my car trying to figure out what was wrong and he did everything he could aside from tearing down the motor.
I'm just saying that Jeff was very helpful with everything on my car and (sorry Steve) but agree that you just got upset that your car wouldn't make the power you were hoping for. And as for Jeff being rude...How would you feel if you were doing something that was simple to you, and you had someone with you that had no idea how to do what you were doing. And throughout the process they were trying to tell you what to do and got MAD at YOU because what they wanted you to try didn't work..
Think about it man.

[noclutch]

I didn't ask for anything free. If he thought it was the bottom end (witch it wasn't) then he should have said hey for so many dollars more ill test it for you. I would have been more then willing to pay. But he didn't even offer the service. Its done and over with. It is what it is. I don't no why u guys keep posting saying the same thing.

You're an idiot. Why would he check your bottom end for you? What was he gonna do, pull the motor out, check ring gaps, bearing clearances? Please explain your reasoning behind this. How is it his responsibility to make sure you car was built right?

[DelSol95]

simple compression test would have been fine

[CleanNeon98]

If your mods were holding you back it's your own fault, he is a tuner, not a mechanic, you should have had the car ready.

[Vr-4-Life]

Are you serious? way to throw gas on a barely kindling fire!

[CleanNeon98]

Who, me?

[Vr-4-Life]

yes you lol

[doug]

this thread has run its course..