Tell Me Again How Bolt-In Cages are Equal to Weld-In Ones

[oneday]

http://cache-07.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash07.jpg
http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg
http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash02.jpg
Mustang Crash (http://jalopnik.com/5390934/mustang-cover-boy-tries-to-corner-flips-over-tire-wall?skyline=true&s=i)
The Hallett/CarFX project Mustang — featured on the December '09 cover of 5.0 Mustang — dramatically flipped over a tire wall at Hallet Circuit in Oklahoma this weekend, ending up on its roof. The accident apparently happened at turn six of the track, and the results, as you can see from the gallery above, couldn't be any more dramatic. After ramping the tire wall, the car planted nose-first into the ground and flipped forward, coming to a halt on its roof. You can see in the post-pancake-flipping images that the bolt-in roll cage simply punched through the floor, completely failing in its duty.

Incredibly, neither the driver nor passenger were injured in the accident.

[CleanNeon98]

Should I weld my rollbar in?

[Foolinaround]

bolt ins are more for show as weld ins are for uce.

[pinacup7]

Wow thats wild both the driver and pass weren't killed. I never understood bolt in cages. If your going to do it might as well do it right. But why does a sponsored race car have a bolted in cage?

[The Captain]

ha, all that work on a project car to put a POS bolt-in in? Fail. Bolt ons are nice for hard parking but fail in use.

[sleeper15]

now there's a eye opener for you.

[Scapegoat]

failed attempt at going into super pursuit mode?

you're not Kitt silly mustang...

[jpalamar]

Gotta love the bolt on, key look my car is fast cause I got a roll cage, but I added weight and didn't even make my car safer look.

[Silverfc88]

How did nobody get injured in that? Damn thats crazy, if I ever decide to build a track car then the cage will definetly be welded in.

[Elliott18t]

is it me or does it look like the cage go through the floor?

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

[Scapegoat]

is it me or does it look like the cage go through the floor?

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

"You can see in the post-pancake-flipping images that the bolt-in roll cage simply punched through the floor, completely failing in its duty."

personally... i think this was just a failed attempt at a speed racer modification where those pegs come out of the bottom and the car launches into the air

[240sxDann]

is it me or does it look like the cage go through the floor?

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

read...

You can see in the post-pancake-flipping images that the bolt-in roll cage simply punched through the floor, completely failing in its duty.

[RedDawg]

is it me or does it look like the cage go through the floor?

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

was gonna point that out also, think its more a failure on the superior ford quality than on what type of cage it was.

[Elliott18t]

see, i didn't read :P. lol

LOL @ speed racer.

[Scapegoat]

was gonna point that out also, think its more a failure on the superior ford quality than on what type of cage it was.

seriously?

without knowing what the point of failure was... i'm not really sure you can speak. and surely the mustang's frame was not built with a cage being installed in mind anyway

[RedDawg]

seriously?

without knowing what the point of failure was... i'm not really sure you can speak. and surely the mustang's frame was not built with a cage being installed in mind anyway

so we both agree that mustangs shouldnt be used to race :mrgreen:

[240sxDann]

Plus if you think about it, how thin is the sheet metal for floors in most cars? If you push a 2" pipe straight against it with the force of a 3000-3500lb car landing on it...of course it's going to go straight through. Welded in cages are different because they "become part of the car" so to speak.

[Elliott18t]

lolwut?(redawg)

[oneday]

its more a failure on the superior ford quality than on what type of cage it was.


If it were a proper weld-in cage the mounting points would have been on frame rails other secure fixture. For this bolt-in cage looks like it was bolted to the floor using sub-par backing plates.

Also, looking at the static, pre-smashed, image, you can see how much gap there is between the B-pillar and the main hoop--and it looks like it is only a roll bar, not a full cage, so, when the car landed on the roof all the force of the impact pushed the downtubes through the floor. If this had been a cage some of that force would have been transmitted to the forward downtubes, possibly preventing some of the smashing. The lack of diagonal or cross braces between the rearward down tubes didn't help either.

http://image.mustang50magazine.com/f/26768779/m5lp_091200_fx_9+tulsa_car_FX_grabber_blue_mustang s+12_car.jpg

The more I look at it the more I am amazed that the occupants weren't killed.


CN: The Miata roll bar mounts in such a way that in order for the bottom posts to come through the car you wouldn't survive no matter if it was welded or even designed into the car from Mazda.

[Proven]

From what I've seen with bolt ins they usually have a small base plate, especially on the main hoop. Ad 4 drilled holes to the sheet metal below and you have one weak ass section. I would suggest anyone with a bolt in have a wider base plate welded in to support the floor below and bolt the cage to that. Or of course have a real cage built by someone that's knows what they are doing.

I'm guessing the people in that Mustang lived because they DIDN'T have race harnesses on. And to be fair I would bet that bolt in cage slowed the momentum of the impact enough to save their lives.

[Kir Diesel]

I definately agree that it always better and safer to weld the cage in. Bolt it cages do work but i would def say not to the degree that weld in cages do. Dont cheap out and not weld it in.

[Scapegoat]

at least its a pretty color

[fear_no_evo]

wee if u reinforce the floor where u bolt it down it could work

[assault187]

was gonna point that out also, think its more a failure on the superior ford quality than on what type of cage it was.

uhh no, Proper cages use floor plates so this doesnt happen...

[99SL2_Modder]

at least its a pretty color

And streamlined like crazy. Look at that flatness!

Win/win.

[dragonfly2k3]

Im with you^ A weld in cage can probably plenty safe, but should have atleast a 6"x6" square base welded down, then the cage base should weld to that. You cant expect a 3"x3" pressure point with weak spots in every corner to support the impact of a flip.

[SovXietday]

Please please please reconsider what you are really doing.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/JettaGLXVR6/mustangfail1.jpg

Notice. 4pt Autopower bolt in rollbar.

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

Oops.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/JettaGLXVR6/mustangfail2.jpg

Look closely in the second pic, you'll see the bottoms of the main hoops punched themselves through the floorboards. This DOESN'T HAPPEN with a good welded in cage.

Guys, it's your safety we're talking about here, spend the money and get the bars welded in.

[crazysaywhat]

cant be cheap when ur life is on the line...

[agencyone0one]

That car went Squish. Why cheap out with a cage?

[Foolinaround]

repawst,but still true.

[Rally Sport]

That's rollcage rule #1, i don't see why people don't understand it.

[DPancoast]

repost... truly shocking tho

[SpEcRv9]

so you're telling me I should buy 2 bolt in cages? :lol:

[Proven]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I really know nothing about cages and proper set up.

Bolt in cage - Mounts directly to the bodies sheet metal by drilling 4 holes for bolts. Downfall - Mounted to thin a** sheet metal thats further weakened by having 4 holes drilled?? (also, can't be bolted threw or to the frame)

Weld in - Any welder / cage installer with a pulse would aim to have at least the main hoop welded to the frame area of the interiors sheet metal and would also use a support plate/gussets???

[nissamax]

what happened to the driver? safety is not to F around with.

what is the price differences between bolt in and welded roll cages? (i know nothing about them other then welded cages are alot better and safer)

[Xclusive_Russ]

This was not properly installed. A bolt in must be reinforced properly. They admitted it was improperly installed in an interview. Everyone was ok btw.

[boostedfury]

thankfully the driver was ok but that def shows any cage noob what not to do

[Chris B.]

It basically has nothing to do with it being a bolt in cage and is completely about it being installed improperly. I've also seen welded in cages that were not welded to anyting strong enough to support the car when it rolls over.

[NOPSTNS]

no one confuse "cage" with "roll bar", they arent the same. this seems a bit fishy, like it wasnt installed properly.

bolt in isnt so bad, what else would people be able to do if their car was aluminum...think about THAT! haha


cant be cheap when ur life is on the line...

very true. Which is why those bastards that make HANS devices are laffing their way to the bank.

[oneday]

Did you take a time machine back to October 2009? (http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89582)

[underpressure02]

Did you take a time machine back to October 2009? (http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89582)

No he took the post from the drag forum on Honda-Tech which was made yesterday and prob did not realize it was posted last year.

[crazysaywhat]

i would rather shell out the cash for a hans device and hit a wall at 200 then not spend the money...

[enigma]

Good thing i made my cage out of paper towel tubes, that way i don't have to worry about them punching a hole in my floor.

[SovXietday]

No he took the post from the drag forum on Honda-Tech which was made yesterday and prob did not realize it was posted last year.

Yup, lol.

I'm sorry, but how would you "properly" install a bolt in rollbar or cage? They are prebuilt, once you start welding in supports and plates you've kinda surpassed the point of buying a bolt in in the first place.

Since someone asked.

A correctly welded cage has a minimum 6"x6" plate welded into the body at each body mounting point. A good cage is also custom bent and fitted to the car to ensure proper structure, and will have X beams and other supporting bars depending on what you need the cage to be rated for.

Obviously if you get a cage welded in you need to spend the money and not just have your friend of a friend do it in his back yard with a harbor freight MIG. A good NHRA spec 6pt TIGed in custom fit chromoly will run you generally 1200-1500. Road race 10pts will be considerably more. This is all generally speaking of course.

Bolt ins are just that, prefabbed bars that you bolt into the car. My personal favorite are the ones that bend around the dashboard. Totally structurally sound they are. :roll: Wouldn't trust them with my life that's for sure.

[TROLL]

merged old and new threads... so there's a little redundancy but the discussion is good so lets keep it flowing :)

[GmFwd]

A bolt in cage can be just as effective as a weld it, granted that the bolt in is bolted to the most structurally reinforced parts of the car(frame, framerail, subframe mount points, etc).

But as seen here, it was simply bolted to the floor of the car. Terrible idea. As others said, if it is going to be attached to a floorpan (either welded or bolted) it needs to cover an area great enough to take an impact.

So even if that cage was welded to the floor, results would be similar. Definitely a cosmetic cage that would not pass and official inspections.

[Willdue]

It was bolted to the wrong parts of the car. i personally would never use a bolt in. But thats me. This bolt in cage in this car saved this kids life. (but killed the car that inspired me)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/drewdiesel/007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/drewdiesel/Progress2/backtogether007.jpg?t=1214919068
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/golfkid777/DrewsCar.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/drewdiesel/Wreck/VW016.jpg?t=1214919096
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/drewdiesel/Wreck/VW014.jpg?t=1214919107
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/drewdiesel/Wreck/VW008.jpg?t=1214919128

[GmFwd]

Speechless

[cmr076]

ouch... although cages, bolt in or weld in car also ruin lives... the kid with the MR2 from a while back (if anyone knows what the hell im talking about)

[igo4bmx]

they could have went halfway to a proper setup and used JBweld.

[Willdue]

Speechless

those pics still hurt. that car made me want a dub

[Highline Imports]

Usually people will weld all the seams to add strength and then weld in the cage.

[Got Insulin?]

I'm waiting for Jordan (BlkZ06) to chime in with his cage story.