PA Tint Laws .. about to change?

[Rush]

EDIT: UPDATE ON PAGE 4 -->
http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1762559#post1762559


I'll try to make a long story short.

A coworker of my boyfriend's was pulled over a long time ago for the tint on one of his cars. For whatever reason, it was the last straw for him -- and he decided to take it to court. Not just to fight the ticket, but to fight the entire so-called law.

He's been going up through the court system for months and months now. Last week, the case finally made it all the way up to the Supreme Court in Harrisburg.

While the judges reserve the right to make a final decision within one to four months (because we all know the government, they can never do anything quickly) -- the Chief Justice said 'off the record' that my BF's coworker made one of the best cases he's ever seen. He went on to say that the current 'tint law', if changed, would no longer be a police matter -- it would become an inspection matter, and that tint up to 35% would be legalized.

I have no idea if and/or when any changes are going to take place. But obviously, my BF and I have been keeping close watch on his coworker's cases since they started -- and now that it looks like they're finally culminating, I thought I'd share. :)

Everyone cross your fingers!

[Scapegoat]

sweet!

35% is useless though :lol:... i have 30% and i'm thinking of going back and having it redone to 15%... i've noticed i can't stare at people at red lights without them noticing i'm doing so >_>

[Buster]

Really? I have 30% and I think its too dark! I had 40 on the subaru and I thought that was dark enough. I'm still not sure why people need it soooo dark.

[Scapegoat]

Really? I have 30% and I think its too dark! I had 40 on the subaru and I thought that was dark enough. I'm still not sure why people need it soooo dark.

after having the window smashed out on the neon i like the idea of making my car as difficult as possible to see in. if a crook can't tell what is in the car they're not wasting their time breaking in for a quick grab.

30% looks really light on my car... while bustedujoint has 30% on his wrx wagon and it appears darker.

I like the 30% on the rear glass, but i'd like it darker on the sides. i think 15 or 20 would be perfect

[grimm]

wait, i thought it was already legal (by police and saftey inspection) to have 35% tint? and inspection they can't fail you for tint at all? at least thats what I read from the state gov website?
I have 10% it's dark, but somehow i don't get bothered by police much. Last night i was heading home, i drive past a cop pulling on to route 13. Immediately I'm thinking, I'm getting pulled over. The cop tails me for a bit, and then passes me.

[Scapegoat]

tint in PA is illegal. however, it won't cause you to fail inspection unless you've tinted the front window

[ThePrimerSuspect]

its currently not an inspection matter at all. not anymore at least. i dont think it should be changed personally. all we think about is how the cops harass people for it, and in some cases that is true. but you gotta think if a cop is pulling you over and your tint is so dark he cant see you, he doesnt know what he is walking up on. i think it should be a secondary offense maybe. like you have to be pulled over for doing something else wrong, not just for having it.

[jpalamar]

Tint will not become legal in any percent unless there is a medical conditiion to warrent needing it.

It is for the protection of the police officers. Granted, I'm still running 35% and it is dark enough to serve its purpose, even though ita a PITA at night to turn lol. I haven't been bothered for it yet.

[Scapegoat]

its currently not an inspection matter at all. not anymore at least. i dont think it should be changed personally. all we think about is how the cops harass people for it, and in some cases that is true. but you gotta think if a cop is pulling you over and your tint is so dark he cant see you, he doesnt know what he is walking up on. i think it should be a secondary offense maybe. like you have to be pulled over for doing something else wrong, not just for having it.

i'd agree with that... but 35% really isn't that dark. i guarantee a cop could see me pointing a gun at the window with my 30%.

i think 35 is a good number to make legal via inspection, and make it a secondary offense for getting pulled over if it is any darker than that

[Buster]

wait, i thought it was already legal (by police and saftey inspection) to have 35% tint? and inspection they can't fail you for tint at all? at least thats what I read from the state gov website?
I have 10% it's dark, but somehow i don't get bothered by police much. Last night i was heading home, i drive past a cop pulling on to route 13. Immediately I'm thinking, I'm getting pulled over. The cop tails me for a bit, and then passes me.

Tint has been illegal since the mid 90's when cars started coming with a light tint. I don't remember what most cars/trucks come with but when you couple the factory tint with aftermarket tint it becomes illegal because it passes the limit.

light tint will more than likely never get you pulled over, but if you go dark you're really asking for trouble.

Honestly though, anyone who gets mad they got a tint ticket is just too niave. Its not like it has been a secret. I totally understand why police dont like it. But as a theft deterrant, if you have a nice car and keep it so dark that no one can see into it. You are just as inviting as someone with stuff all over in the car. If you really dont want something stolen, best way is to not keep it in the car. I have nothing but a microfiber, 1 CD in the player , the user manual, and my sunglasses in my car. if it gets broken into that would suck but there is nothing I cant replace with a 5 dollar bill in it.

[jcr557]

15% is the way to go :)

[jpalamar]

guarantee a cop could see me pointing a gun at the window with my 30%.



Under perfect conditions maybe, but with glair, different times of days, reflections, you can't see clearly enough.

[RWDTurbo149]

i really dont care if i have to have every passenger put their hands and feet out the window while a cop walks up to the vehicle, i just wanna not have to deal with the hassle of police busting me for tint.

but i'm getting lasik surgery soon so hopefully i can get a doctors note for some tint =]

[pinacup7]

Our tint law for inspecting cars just changed the other week. We got a nice stack of papers from the state, here's the deal:

We can not fail your car for window tints but you will not be given a sticker until you can fill out the supplied form - You will be given a piece of paper that requires to be filled out by a doctor saying you need the tint because of a problem with your eyes or whatever the case may be.

Once you return with the form filled out then we can put a sticker on

[jpalamar]

Our tint law for inspecting cars just changed the other week. We got a nice stack of papers from the state, here's the deal:

We can not fail your car for window tints but you will not be given a sticker until you can fill out the supplied form - You will be given a piece of paper that requires to be filled out by a doctor saying you need the tint because of a problem with your eyes or whatever the case may be.

Once you return with the form filled out then we can put a sticker on

What state?

[pinacup7]

Pa State Inpection

[flyers7732]

Really? I have 30% and I think its too dark! I had 40 on the subaru and I thought that was dark enough. I'm still not sure why people need it soooo dark.

ive got 5% all around and 40% on the windshield and i think its not dark enough

[pinacup7]

ive got 5% all around and 40% on the windshield and i think its not dark enough

That's just stupid. How do you not get pulled over everyday?

[flyers7732]

umm apparently the police dont care around here, plus you cant tell the windshield is tinted

[Buster]

Pa State Inpection


Thats crazy! I havent heard anything about this and I'm a state inspector!

We always advise the customer when he asks about tint that its not an inspection issue at all, its just up to law enforcement. We cannot fail for tint unless its on the windsheild. Or is in the sweeping area of the wipers.

[pinacup7]

Thats crazy! I havent heard anything about this and I'm a state inspector!

We always advise the customer when he asks about tint that its not an inspection issue at all, its just up to law enforcement. We cannot fail for tint unless its on the windsheild. Or is in the sweeping area of the wipers.


Do you work at a big shop? I believe they are only targeting dealers with cars that are known for customers to put tint on their cars. You guys should have the papers - we've had them since I can remember but just recently we were told about the new situation. Like I said we aren't failing the customer. If they come back within 30 days with the form filled out by a doctor we can hang the sticker. If after 30 days they have to pay again. I usually only give them the form if its 20% or less. We were also just given a light meter from the state to test the windows. The tint must also not cover the third brake light now, that Fails.

Do you guys have the new inspection machine that is all electronic or are you still using a book?

[Kevin]

its currently not an inspection matter at all. not anymore at least. i dont think it should be changed personally. all we think about is how the cops harass people for it, and in some cases that is true. but you gotta think if a cop is pulling you over and your tint is so dark he cant see you, he doesnt know what he is walking up on. i think it should be a secondary offense maybe. like you have to be pulled over for doing something else wrong, not just for having it.

I think illegal tint has always been a secondary offense, has it not? I've never heard of someone getting pulled over solely for having illegal tint.

Tint will not become legal in any percent unless there is a medical conditiion to warrent needing it.

A friend of mine has his full windshield tinted in his F150, ****s ridiculous. The only reason he got away with that was with a doctors note. Maybe the fact that his mom is engaged to Vince Fumo helped him :mrgreen: hahahahaha

[flyers7732]

That's just stupid. How do you not get pulled over everyday?

oh and i forgot i have a note for that

[pinacup7]

oh and i forgot i have a note for that

Yea then your good. From the pic in your avatar it looks like you have no stickers. Or are you not from Pa?

[grimm]

personally i'd like to know where people are getting their info. because it doesn't seem to jive with the PA Statute Ch. 45 75 Section 4524 (e)(1) This is the LAW passed by our legislators and it does NOT prohibit tint unless it "does not permit a person to see or view the inside of the vehicle through the windshield, side wing or side window of the vehicle."

Granted i'm talking about the previous law, not the new one.

Then they came out with a "safety bulletin" with a table which allows up to 30% tint or 70% transmittance of light
Link to table (http://www.berksweb.com/users/dmv/tint/1996update.html)

then PA put out a bulletin stating the below:
(1) Section 175.26(a)(relating to tools and equipment) has been further amended by deleting paragraph (2), which was proposed to require inspection stations to have a light meter as part of their required tools and equipment. This requirement was originally proposed to ensure that inspection stations had an acceptable method of testing the light transmittance of the glazing on each vehicle inspected. The Department, on February 21, 1996, met with garage associations, representatives of various public interest organizations, and the State Police to discuss issues relating to the safety inspection program. During discussion of these amendments, several attendees expressed concern with the Department's intention to require all inspection stations to purchase light meters. At a meeting of this same group held on June 5, 1996, the Department proposed amending the final regulations to eliminate the issue of sun screening from the inspection procedure. This suggestion was offered to address concerns raised by inspection station representatives regarding the ability of inspection mechanics to readily identify unacceptable sun screening on vehicles. To assist enforcement personnel, the Department has retained language relating to acceptable levels of vehicle sun screening in the final regulations. However, this language does not appear in the inspection procedures, thereby eliminating the need for inspection stations to purchase, maintain and utilize light transmittance meters. For these reasons, the Department has deleted the § 175.26(a)(2).

(2) Section 175.67(d)(1) has been further amended to prohibit signs, posters or other materials, whose design prevents a driver from seeing through the material, from being placed on a rear window as well as a windshield, side window or side wing of a passenger car. This clarification was necessary to ensure that vehicle owners and law enforcement personnel are aware that this paragraph addresses glazing obstructions rather than sun screening devices or other materials. Additionally, this section has been further amended to indicate that the restriction for passenger cars is not applicable to the rear side windows, rear wings or rear window of light trucks and multi-purpose passenger vehicles since FMVSS No. 205 does not restrict the use of any products on these glazing locations. Section 4103(b) of 75 Pa.C.S. (relating to promulgation of vehicle equipment standards) provides that Federal standards, in this case FMVSS No. 205, supersede any Commonwealth standards applicable to the same aspect of vehicle performance or item of equipment. Therefore, since FMVSS No. 205 does not restrict glazing obstructions on windows located behind the driver on light trucks and multi-purpose passenger vehicles, the Department can only prohibit these obstructions on passenger cars.

(3) Section 175.67(d)(2) has been further amended to prohibit signs, posters or other materials, whose design prevents a driver from seeing through the material, from being placed on a rear side window, rear wing or rear window of a passenger car. These materials are prohibited if they cover more than 20% of the exposed portion of the windows or wings, or extend more than 3 1/2 inches above the lowest exposed portion of the windows or wings. This clarification was necessary to ensure that vehicle owners and law enforcement personnel are aware that this paragraph addresses glazing obstructions rather than sun screening devices or other materials. Like § 175.67(d)(1), this restriction is limited to passenger cars since FMVSS No. 205 does not restrict the use of any products on the rear side windows, rear wings or rear window of light trucks and multi-purpose passenger vehicles. Section 4103(b) of the Vehicle Code, 75 Pa.C.S. § 4103(b) provides that Federal standards, in this case FMVSS No. 205, supersede any Commonwealth standards applicable to the same aspect of vehicle performance or item of equipment. Therefore, since FMVSS No. 205 only addresses specific glazing requirements for windows located behind the driver on passenger cars, these are the only vehicles on which the Department can prohibit these obstructions. Further, since passenger cars are the only vehicles which have this restriction, mirror provisions at §§ 175.97(d)(2), 175.110(a)(2)(i)(C), 175.147(d)(2), 175.160(a)(2)(i)(F), 175.176(d)(2) and 175.190(a)(2)(i)(F) have been deleted since these provisions are located in subchapters that do not address passenger cars.

(4) Section 175.67(d)(4) has been further amended by including a reference to the newly established Table X. Table X sets forth the acceptable light transmittance levels for all vehicle types and window locations. Further, language has been added to indicate that passenger car light transmittance requirements for rear windows are set forth in Table X according to model year. If a passenger car has a model year of 1997 or older, the acceptable light transmittance levels for the rear window are the ones currently in effect. The rear windows of passenger cars with a model year of 1998 or newer must transmit at least 70% of visible light. This table has been added so that law enforcement personnel can easily determine acceptable light transmittance levels for all vehicle types and window locations they may encounter in the course of their duties. Mirror provisions at §§ 175.97(d)(3), 175.147(d)(3) and 175.176(d)(3) have been similarly amended to reflect this change. Moreover, § 175.263(b) has been similarly amended to reflect this change, since this subsection pertains to sun screening devices or other materials on the rear windows of vehicles.

but in all honesty it doesn't seem like many people have a clear understanding of the laws, and i think thats mainly because i don't think PA has a clearly written law. on top of that the federal law superceeds the state law.

[flyers7732]

Yea then your good. From the pic in your avatar it looks like you have no stickers. Or are you not from Pa?

im from pa i just havent decided to get new stickers put on since i got the windshield done

[pinacup7]

but in all honesty it doesn't seem like many people have a clear understanding of the laws, and i think thats mainly because i don't think PA has a clearly written law. on top of that the federal law superceeds the state law.

Yea you nailed it. I don't think Pa even knows what the law is these days

[K20sRsxy]

I have 15% on all windows and its not dark enough...

[pinacup7]

I have 15% on all windows and its not dark enough...

sweet you should spray paint your windows black. That would look tight

[K20sRsxy]

Definitely 15%!

[Buster]

Do you work at a big shop? I believe they are only targeting dealers with cars that are known for customers to put tint on their cars. You guys should have the papers - we've had them since I can remember but just recently we were told about the new situation. Like I said we aren't failing the customer. If they come back within 30 days with the form filled out by a doctor we can hang the sticker. If after 30 days they have to pay again. I usually only give them the form if its 20% or less. We were also just given a light meter from the state to test the windows. The tint must also not cover the third brake light now, that Fails.

Do you guys have the new inspection machine that is all electronic or are you still using a book?

I work for STS. But were "employee owned" so god only knows when we will receive any info. Thats really crazy. I just got my liscenses this past august I beleive and they didnt mention anything about this even being a possiblity.

[jpalamar]

Definitely 15%!

Thats why you drive a Civic but them complain when you get pulled over.:)

[pinacup7]

I work for STS. But were "employee owned" so god only knows when we will receive any info. Thats really crazy. I just got my liscenses this past august I beleive and they didnt mention anything about this even being a possiblity.

Yea you should be getting a newsletter every month. The form for the doctor has always existed, I'm surprised they didn't say anything about that at the class. I just took my re-cert a couple of weeks ago and we talked about it for over an hour. Do you have the new electronic inspection machine? The emisions machine has always been electronic but now instead of the book for inspections its all on the computer. It's almost impossible to cheat an inspection/emissions test now and days.

[Buster]

No we havent gotten an Electronic saftey machine yet. man that was fast for what 4-5 months for everything to change.

[pinacup7]

No was havent gotten an Electronic saftey machine yet. man that was fast for what 4-5 months for everything to change.

The electronic state inspection machine was kind of on a trial run this past year, not every shop is supposed to have it. The reason being techs would write all sloppy in the book and they would get audited/fined/ or there licence taken away. With this new system it won't even give you the sticker unless all forms are filled out properly and than it will assign the sticker to the car. I actually like the electronic way a lot better. After every ten inspections are done it will print out a sheet in the same format as the book and you keep that for your files.

There is always ways around it for friends and family though :cool:

[Kevin]

The can only measure the % on windows that roll down so get as dark as you want on your rear and small sides. I think there is a line on the windshield where you cant tint past.

I have 15% on all windows and its not dark enough...

Stop posting.

[pinacup7]

The can only measure the % on windows that roll down so get as dark as you want on your rear and small sides. I think there is a line on the windshield where you cant tint past.


Thats not true. All you do is suction cup the device to the inside of whatever widnow you want to test. The state supplied us with this special blacklight, you point the light onto the device from the outsdie of the glass and it gives you the tint percentage right away

[Kevin]

Thats not true. All you do is suction cup the device to the inside of whatever widnow you want to test. The state supplied us with this special blacklight, you point the light onto the device from the outsdie of the glass and it gives you the tint percentage right away

Never seen that? anybody else?

[pinacup7]

Never seen that? anybody else?

Uh yea the officer will usually do that when they pull you over for tints. They measure it right on the spot. If its measure at 5% they are legally allowed to scrape your stickers right off of your car.

Happened last week at my work. One of the car wash kids has a buick lacrosee with 5% all around and his w/s tinted. They pulled him over and scraped his stickers right off. This is also in the main line so they might jut not have anything better to do

[pinacup7]

http://www.promotorcarproducts.com/images/DeluxePocketDetective.jpg

This is the one we were suppplied with. More info here http://www.promotorcarproducts.com/deluxe-window-tint-meter.htm

[captainhook]

I've got 35% all around and have been pulled over before without the officer saying anything about it. It looks good, but in retrospect I would do 30% on my future vehicles.

[Rush]

I know nothing about the new law pinacup is discussing -- that obviously has nothing to do with the case that I've been following, seeing as he's already received paperwork about a law being enacted.

Personally, I think a 35% limit is reasonable. I had something like 7% on my last car and wound up very annoyed with it in the end -- it not only limited visibility for officers but limited MY visibility severely at night. Had I not had my accident when I did, the car was going to be re-tinted to a lighter percentage that coming summer.

I think up to 20% should be allowed to 'let slide' by inspectors, but anything darker than that is a danger to everyone.

[jcr557]

That's just stupid. How do you not get pulled over everyday?

drive with them down or put them down when you spot a cop. unless its raining then your really ****ed (from experience) rolled them down, car got wet and got a ticket on top of that

[3rdGenMr2Girl]

sweet!

35% is useless though :lol:... i have 30% and i'm thinking of going back and having it redone to 15%... i've noticed i can't stare at people at red lights without them noticing i'm doing so >_>

please don't. my old car had 15% when i bought it and i could barely see out.

[07LX]

Never have been stopped in PA for my tint and its 30%....My car is tagged in DE thou. DE cops on the other hand......cop stopped me for doing 28 in a 25 and my tint, his main concern was my tint and gave me a 90 dollar ticket for that and then another 40 for speeding.

My buddy has 5% on his car and hates it, he wants to go lighter.

[Supraru]

I have no tint and have never been pulled over for it. I plan to keep it that way. I get to much attention as is. lol

[thunder_lizard]

Thats crazy! I havent heard anything about this and I'm a state inspector!

We always advise the customer when he asks about tint that its not an inspection issue at all, its just up to law enforcement. We cannot fail for tint unless its on the windsheild. Or is in the sweeping area of the wipers.

Seconded..I've yet to hear of anything like this from PennDOT as yet..the QAO will likely spring this on us when audit time comes..

[ThePrimerSuspect]

interior color will make it look 10xs darker too. i had 15% on my neon with grey interior and my bro has 15% on his impala with all black interior and his looked a lot darker than mine.

[captainhook]

Never have been stopped in PA for my tint and its 30%....My car is tagged in DE thou. DE cops on the other hand......cop stopped me for doing 28 in a 25 and my tint, his main concern was my tint and gave me a 90 dollar ticket for that and then another 40 for speeding.


You got a speeding ticket for 3 mph over??? Lol, that's a dick move.

[07LX]

You got a speeding ticket for 3 mph over??? Lol, that's a dick move.

Yup and he also made me 10 mins late for work, cause the stupid printer in his car failed and he had to remember how to hand write a ticket.....

Screwed up part is I saw him pull outta the parking lot, back up (his car couldn't do the U-turn) and then come get me, by that time I had stopped, rolled the windows down and got my info out, and he still started giving me a hassle and ****.

[R22B]

I was pulled over for my 35% tint in Bethlehem. It was pretty retarded.

[Eclipse GSX 61]

Really? I have 30% and I think its too dark! I had 40 on the subaru and I thought that was dark enough. I'm still not sure why people need it soooo dark.

Tell me you have never pulled up to a car full of really cute women and you get much entertainment through them rubbernecking to see who was behind the tint. When I had my 20% I used to love sitting there watching people make idiots of themselves trying to see in while I'm sitting there staring right at them.

[mumby]

FMVSS205 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 205) federal standard stating you can have tinting as low as 25% in some states. PA 30%.

MV 402 is PA Medical Exemption Form for window screening. Good luck getting it though. You have to have an optometrist fill it out (Like I did) then when you send it in they deny it. You call and they tell you its to prevent UV rays from harming your skin and you ask then why did I have to Optometrist fill it out and they give you a line.

I'm still working on it though.

With both of these Ive never had to pay a fine or remove my tint. federal law is higher than the guidleines PA officers follow in an attempt to make more money.

[flyers7732]

funny thing i just walked into the garage and my tint is so dark i didnt realize my dome light was on lol, may i add the garage was pitch black

[ezdrummer]

penndot hasnt issued any MANDATORY failings as far as tint goes by inspection..what pinacup is talking about is still a decision by the shop, and the owner of the car doesnt have to go there...call the shop you take it to before you get it inspected and ask about their policys on tint..most reasonable shops dont bother with it

[OPZ]

Another thing that might help is bringing media attention that it's getting mulled over in court right now...could help a lil. Or shoot it dead in the foot. One of them risky things I guess

[ezdrummer]

Another thing that might help is bringing media attention that it's getting mulled over in court right now...could help a lil. Or shoot it dead in the foot. One of them risky things I guess

the sad thing is the cops that claim its dangerous...its really not...if a guy is gonna shoot a cop, tint really isnt his deciding factor...also, if a cop has half a brain, he would get on the bull horn and tell them to roll the window down before he even gets up to the car. i have tinted over 100 cops personal cars and they all think the tint laws are a joke as it is..

[ScoobyNubieToo!]

I had 5% on my 300ZX Turbo and it was pretty much impossible to see out of the rear of the vehicle...but damn it looked great. I went with 20% on the WRX Wagon and it was great until I had the sunroof put in. Now because of the extra sunlight coming into the vehicle through the sunroof, the 20% doesn't quite seem dark enough....I'll probaly go darker soon.

[ezdrummer]

I had 5% on my 300ZX Turbo and it was pretty much impossible to see out of the rear of the vehicle...but damn it looked great. I went with 20% on the WRX Wagon and it was great until I had the sunroof put in. Now because of the extra sunlight coming into the vehicle through the sunroof, the 20% doesn't quite seem dark enough....I'll probaly go darker soon.

just tint the sunroof 5%

[Kevin]

just tint the sunroof 5%

Thats what I have done in the past.

[supraghost]

sorry to bring this back fromt he dead, but what happened to this. did he not get it passed or is it still in court?

[Rush]

.. Brandon's coworker won!

I'm not entirely sure what it all means yet, but here's the summary-thing from the court case, taken from www.courts.state.pa.us :
http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPosting/Superior/out/A29015_09.pdf

It's my understanding that the previous courts' decisions were reversed because the officer referenced the code which involved being able to see into the vehicle -- not the code that directly referenced the 70% light transmittance -- on the ticket.

[FlashFive]

keep us posted once you fully know what it means!

[asdfasdf128]

i got my fingers crossed :)

[Seven]

I read it, the long and short of it is that... 2 things...
1 - because the officer wrote the ticket on was for "not being able to see in the vehicle" and not for the subsection of "vehicle having darker than 70% light transference" it was over-ruled.
2 - officer admitted he COULD see into the vehicle

so basically the officer wrote for the wrong subsection and admitted he could see in. In the future they'll likely just write the ticket for the sub section about darker than 70%. I doubt you'll see any other changes... these tickets are too much of a cash cow for the state.

[JoJo]

EDIT: UPDATE ON PAGE 4 -->
http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1762559#post1762559


I'll try to make a long story short.

A coworker of my boyfriend's was pulled over a long time ago for the tint on one of his cars. For whatever reason, it was the last straw for him -- and he decided to take it to court. Not just to fight the ticket, but to fight the entire so-called law.

He's been going up through the court system for months and months now. Last week, the case finally made it all the way up to the Supreme Court in Harrisburg.

While the judges reserve the right to make a final decision within one to four months (because we all know the government, they can never do anything quickly) -- the Chief Justice said 'off the record' that my BF's coworker made one of the best cases he's ever seen. He went on to say that the current 'tint law', if changed, would no longer be a police matter -- it would become an inspection matter, and that tint up to 35% would be legalized.

I have no idea if and/or when any changes are going to take place. But obviously, my BF and I have been keeping close watch on his coworker's cases since they started -- and now that it looks like they're finally culminating, I thought I'd share. :)

Everyone cross your fingers!



fwiw, the ruling you in the .pdf you linked to is a Superior court ruling not Supreme court.

[AutobahnRacer]

tint in PA is illegal. however, it won't cause you to fail inspection unless you've tinted the front window

I have no clue where you got this information from, but that is either not accurate, or no one cares. Everyone I know has all around tint, and we all pass inspection.

[OBEEWON]

I've used this law in court and won. I have 20% tint.

[ezdrummer]

I have no clue where you got this information from, but that is either not accurate, or no one cares. Everyone I know has all around tint, and we all pass inspection.

actually, he is correct...state law PROHIBITS tint ON ANY WINDOW of a sedan or coupe...but as far as inspection goes, you wont fail unless the front windshield is tinted...most cops though dont care unless its really dark so you dont get pulled over for it.

[420sx]

A lot of tint places wont even touch your windshield.

[Sublime1304]

so after all is said and done, what percentage can you get where it is legal? like whats the limit for it still being considered legal. reason im asking is cuz im getting mine done soon

[jpalamar]

so after all is said and done, what percentage can you get where it is legal? like whats the limit for it still being considered legal. reason im asking is cuz im getting mine done soon

Check in the Ask the Law section. This has been covered many times. I honestly can't figure out why threads even still start about this topic. http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93957&highlight=tint

[ezdrummer]

so after all is said and done, what percentage can you get where it is legal? like whats the limit for it still being considered legal. reason im asking is cuz im getting mine done soon

the problem is that ANY TINT YOU DO ON ANY WINDOW OF A SEDAN OR COUPE can be considered illegal...yes, illegal...BUT YOU WILL NOT fail inspection for tint unless your front windshield is tinted and a cop most likely will not pull you over unless he fells its to dark..i would RECOMMEND 35% or lighter, but its your call...

[AutobahnRacer]

35% all around except rear window. If they give you ****, fight it. Vehicles come with 20 or 25 i believe from the factory.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

To tell you the truth im glad they have tint laws like this. It came about because officers were being blown away by aholes that dident want a ticket.

[Protege v2.5]

If someone is going to shoot a cop, having tint isn't going to give them to much of advantage over not having tint if the cop has any sense. The few times I've been pulled over the cop has always stood behind the door, basically over my should to give him the best advantage in case of an "aggressive driver". Not mention I've been seeing alot of cops call for backup for traffic stops....... granted I do live close to Chester.

[Maxxdsix]

To tell you the truth im glad they have tint laws like this. It came about because officers were being blown away by aholes that dident want a ticket.
This is where i disagree.

If a cop feels like hes gonna get shot just cuz someone has window tint...then why would the cop pull over someone for the sole reason of window tint, when the purpose that they claim is that its unsafe for them because they wont be able to see in.

I mean i know every traffic stop is potentialy dangerous, but if they feel that window tint makes a situation more dangerous, then why put yourself in a position like that in the first place just because of something that you think might get you hurt?

Makes no sense right?

And it doesnt matter if the court says that its legal to have 0% tint, cops will still pull you over and give you tint tickets, and half the people wont fight them.

Me on the other hand, I would do what the OPs friend did as i have said i would do from the day i got my tint, the law isnt written clearly, and leaves everything up to the cops interpretation, so there is no "set law" of how dark is too dark.

[ezdrummer]

To tell you the truth im glad they have tint laws like this. It came about because officers were being blown away by aholes that dident want a ticket.

most idiotic thing ever....if i am going to shoot a cop, tint would not be my deciding factor whether to do it or not...

[jpalamar]

To tell you the truth im glad they have tint laws like this. It came about because officers were being blown away by aholes that dident want a ticket.

This is true.

most idiotic thing ever....if i am going to shoot a cop, tint would not be my deciding factor whether to do it or not...

It isn't the deciding factor, but the cop doesn't see it coming if he can't see you moving in the car.

[420sx]

Thats retarded though. Ive gotten many tickets, and sometimes ive been ready to go with my info when the cop approaches me, but on several instances ive been approached while still rooting through my car looking for my info. Im sure the cop assumed thats what I was looking for, but how did he know I wasnt looking for a gun? My point being- even when they CAN see you, it doesnt change their course of action. (or mine)

[jpalamar]

Thats retarded though. Ive gotten many tickets, and sometimes ive been ready to go with my info when the cop approaches me, but on several instances ive been approached while still rooting through my car looking for my info. Im sure the cop assumed thats what I was looking for, but how did he know I wasnt looking for a gun? My point being- even when they CAN see you, it doesnt change their course of action. (or mine)

It does alot more then you think when you can see exactly what the person in question is doing.

[Rush]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/07/dillsburg_man_appeals_window_t.html


I did a little more talking with Brandon, who did more talking with Ben, and we got more clear information. Apparently, I was wrong with what I said before. If you read through that case file -- section 9, specifically -- it says that you can't use the code involving 70% light transmittance as a way to enforce the code involving the ability to see through the window.

"The express terms of § 4524(e)(1) prohibit a person from driving a motor vehicle which possesses sun screening material “which does not permit a person to see or view the inside of the vehicle through the windshield, side wing or side window of the vehicle.” Despite Officer Pryor’s and the trial court’s focus upon light meter readings, the language of the statute does not prohibit a person from driving a motor vehicle which possesses sun screening material that “reduces the transmittance of light to below 70%.” Just as importantly, the statute also does not prohibit a person from driving a motor vehicle which possesses sun screening material that reduces the transmittance of light to below a standard to be determined and published by PennDOT."

It seems like the ability to fight a tint ticket is now going to hinge on whether or not you can see inside the vehicle -- which, in my opinion, is perfectly reasonable. I wish tint laws had been made around that concept in the first place. Anyhoo, even if the officer pulling you over says, "Nope, I can't see inside the vehicle!" .. if you have a camera on you at the time and can take a picture of the inside of your vehicle through the tinted window, you can probably fight the ticket, cite this case, and win.

In my opinion, not ALL tint should be legalized. Anything below 20% is too dark and becomes a danger not only to officers, but also to other motorists because the driver can't see well through that kind of tint at night.

[streetsistalkin]

No matter what.. if they want to pull you over for your tint, they will

[ezdrummer]

This is true.



It isn't the deciding factor, but the cop doesn't see it coming if he can't see you moving in the car.

cops have this thing called a speaker...they can tell the car in front of them EVEN BEFORE THE COP GETS OUT OF THE CAR to roll the windows down...lookie here! problem solved!

[i_ride_fieroGT]

most idiotic thing ever....if i am going to shoot a cop, tint would not be my deciding factor whether to do it or not...

Ok iof you want to call this idiotic than heres some things to think about.....



1. Most people put window tint on there car to 1, look cool, 2, so people on the outside cant see in. The ones who put it on there so other people cant see in are usualy the ones doing somthing thewy dont want others to see them doing this could either be an illegal Concealed Weapon and or wepons, Drugs, illegal transport, smuggling, or god forbid a body, Now if someone was in that situation and possabley facing imprizionment for being in that situation you better beleave blowing a cop away is going to be on there minds. Now im not one to talk my 86 Fiero has limo tint on both sides (bought it that way) but 1 most of the officers in my area know me from firefighting and other conv's and dont really give me a problem about it but whenever im pulled over in it I roll down both window's put my dome light on if its dark out and put both ahds on my steeringwheel until the officer instructs me to hand him my paperwork and/or get out of the car. Actuley if you do that while pulled over with window tint they let you go without the warning to scrape it off. I'v been pulled over 4 times because of the tint on it each time they let me go except for one time in harrisburg where the officer walked up to my window with his gun unholstered. He dident aim it at me but just had it ready which i totaly understand... i rolled down my windo shot the sh*t with him for about 15 min and he sent me on my way and none of them instructed me to scrape it and i have drivin by 2 of the officers numerous times after it and I usualy get a wave from them if im in my green car. You make a cop comfertable during a pullover they level with you.

I agree with the tint laws totaly and when i get around to it im going to scrape the tint on my fiero.

cops have this thing called a speaker...they can tell the car in front of them EVEN BEFORE THE COP GETS OUT OF THE CAR to roll the windows down...lookie here! problem solved!
Not true. Not every cruiser has a loud speeker. Most undercover/unmarked cars dont. Bike cops dont. some of the lower equipted state trooper cruisers dont. They buy there cruiser options like we buy options for our cars. Some have them some dont. The tint laws are there for there protection and others as well... hell you could get some physco weilding a gun at an inocent random person in traffic and with dark tint you wouldent see it until it was to late.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Double post

[i_ride_fieroGT]

This is where i disagree.

If a cop feels like hes gonna get shot just cuz someone has window tint...then why would the cop pull over someone for the sole reason of window tint, when the purpose that they claim is that its unsafe for them because they wont be able to see in.

I mean i know every traffic stop is potentialy dangerous, but if they feel that window tint makes a situation more dangerous, then why put yourself in a position like that in the first place just because of something that you think might get you hurt?

Makes no sense right?

And it doesnt matter if the court says that its legal to have 0% tint, cops will still pull you over and give you tint tickets, and half the people wont fight them.

Me on the other hand, I would do what the OPs friend did as i have said i would do from the day i got my tint, the law isnt written clearly, and leaves everything up to the cops interpretation, so there is no "set law" of how dark is too dark.


They usualy wont pull you over for tint. i'v been stopped 4 times in my green fiero for tint but its a very hey look at me car that begs to be pulled over.

But. an officer cannot go and make a decision not to pull someone over just because they have tint. If someones flying down the highway at a very high rate of speed and causes a major or fatel accident and there was an officer present witnessed the high speed of the vehical and dident pull him over just because he had window tint, Not only is he going to lose his job but could also face charges. Cops are litterley paied to protect the public even though sometimes it dosent seem like it. there paied to risk there life for the peace of others. Also not to mention if your tint is to dark and your knowingley put it on there than you better have the money to pay the fines that come with having tint. You cant have your cake and eat it to with tint laws. In the end an officer can pull you over for just about anything and its your right to contest it in court. cops and laws are always going to be there and theres no getting around it.

[fc3spower]

i just recently got my rx7 tinted 15% and i actually have no problems seeing out at night, but by no means would i ever go darker, i feel like i should have only gone as high as 20 but 15 really isnt much darker to me.. idk.

[ezdrummer]

Ok iof you want to call this idiotic than heres some things to think about.....



1. Most people put window tint on there car to 1, look cool, 2, so people on the outside cant see in. The ones who put it on there so other people cant see in are usualy the ones doing somthing thewy dont want others to see them doing this could either be an illegal Concealed Weapon and or wepons, Drugs, illegal transport, smuggling, or god forbid a body, Now if someone was in that situation and possabley facing imprizionment for being in that situation you better beleave blowing a cop away is going to be on there minds. Now im not one to talk my 86 Fiero has limo tint on both sides (bought it that way) but 1 most of the officers in my area know me from firefighting and other conv's and dont really give me a problem about it but whenever im pulled over in it I roll down both window's put my dome light on if its dark out and put both ahds on my steeringwheel until the officer instructs me to hand him my paperwork and/or get out of the car. Actuley if you do that while pulled over with window tint they let you go without the warning to scrape it off. I'v been pulled over 4 times because of the tint on it each time they let me go except for one time in harrisburg where the officer walked up to my window with his gun unholstered. He dident aim it at me but just had it ready which i totaly understand... i rolled down my windo shot the sh*t with him for about 15 min and he sent me on my way and none of them instructed me to scrape it and i have drivin by 2 of the officers numerous times after it and I usualy get a wave from them if im in my green car. You make a cop comfertable during a pullover they level with you.

I agree with the tint laws totaly and when i get around to it im going to scrape the tint on my fiero.


Not true. Not every cruiser has a loud speeker. Most undercover/unmarked cars dont. Bike cops dont. some of the lower equipted state trooper cruisers dont. They buy there cruiser options like we buy options for our cars. Some have them some dont. The tint laws are there for there protection and others as well... hell you could get some physco weilding a gun at an inocent random person in traffic and with dark tint you wouldent see it until it was to late.
you could have an idiot without tint with a gun in his lap...tint is not the problem.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

you could have an idiot without tint with a gun in his lap...tint is not the problem.

But with the tint the officer does not see it. Next time you get pulled over see if the officer stands next to the rear door/1/4 pannel of your car. The first thing they look at when they walk up to a car without tint is for guns/deadley wepons. I know the reason for the tint laws inside and out and i still agree with them.

[Maxxdsix]

i just recently got my rx7 tinted 15% and i actually have no problems seeing out at night, but by no means would i ever go darker, i feel like i should have only gone as high as 20 but 15 really isnt much darker to me.. idk.
yea, the dark back roads around me 20% is still pretty hard to see late at night.

[mx931]

yea a cop stopped me i have 20% but my friend got in my car and a cop pulled up and we drove away and he said it looked shady, which it kinda was he pulled a 2 foot bamboo bowl outta my car....so i guess even from my instance its reasonable, but i usually dont have that kinda stuff. i think 20% should be legal, anything below that nahh

[ezdrummer]

But with the tint the officer does not see it. Next time you get pulled over see if the officer stands next to the rear door/1/4 pannel of your car. The first thing they look at when they walk up to a car without tint is for guns/deadley wepons. I know the reason for the tint laws inside and out and i still agree with them.

to each his own...facts are that there is not a direct link between cops getting shot and tint...

[DC2.2GSR]

i think it's ridiculous that people are actually putting time/money/effort into getting a tint law changed. PA Supreme Court? really? for f**k's sake, try giving a damn about something that actually matters.

also ridiculous is the fact that there are some people out there who can't understand \/ this \/

to each his own...facts are that there is not a direct link between cops getting shot and tint...

it's sickening to think about, but really... does anyone understand how easy it would be to say "yes officer, no problem.. i'll get that license for you", then draw my weapon instead of my wallet and get a few shots off before the officer could even react? or just sit there with the gun in my lap waiting for him when he walks up to the window... all with the window down and a smile on my face.

the car doesn't have to be some POS with black limo tinted windows in order to be dangerous the the officer. the only thing that must exist in order for the officer to get shot is intent and willingness to act upon it. if both are present, tinted windows or crystal clear ones will not change anything.

if you can't understand the truth in that then you're just retarded.

[djb5118]

Ok iof you want to call this idiotic than heres some things to think about.....



1. Most people put window tint on there car to 1, look cool, 2, so people on the outside cant see in. The ones who put it on there so other people cant see in are usualy the ones doing somthing thewy dont want others to see them doing this could either be an illegal Concealed Weapon and or wepons, Drugs, illegal transport, smuggling, or god forbid a body, Now if someone was in that situation and possabley facing imprizionment for being in that situation you better beleave blowing a cop away is going to be on there minds. Now im not one to talk my 86 Fiero has limo tint on both sides (bought it that way) but 1 most of the officers in my area know me from firefighting and other conv's and dont really give me a problem about it but whenever im pulled over in it I roll down both window's put my dome light on if its dark out and put both ahds on my steeringwheel until the officer instructs me to hand him my paperwork and/or get out of the car. Actuley if you do that while pulled over with window tint they let you go without the warning to scrape it off. I'v been pulled over 4 times because of the tint on it each time they let me go except for one time in harrisburg where the officer walked up to my window with his gun unholstered. He dident aim it at me but just had it ready which i totaly understand... i rolled down my windo shot the sh*t with him for about 15 min and he sent me on my way and none of them instructed me to scrape it and i have drivin by 2 of the officers numerous times after it and I usualy get a wave from them if im in my green car. You make a cop comfertable during a pullover they level with you.



I would bet that there is a MUCH larger percentage of people that have tint to look cool and add functionality versus those that have it to commit crimes.

If tint was such an issue with police officers being shot or otherwise, then it would be completely outlawed on a federal level. There are tons of states that allow tint to block UV rays and decrease heat levels inside of vehicles. I'm sure that if the crime was really that much of an issue it wouldn't be legal in those states.

Like it was mentioned, if someone wants to shoot an officer, they are going to do it with tint or no tint.

[ezdrummer]

i think it's ridiculous that people are actually putting time/money/effort into getting a tint law changed. PA Supreme Court? really? for f**k's sake, try giving a damn about something that actually matters.

also ridiculous is the fact that there are some people out there who can't understand \/ this \/



it's sickening to think about, but really... does anyone understand how easy it would be to say "yes officer, no problem.. i'll get that license for you", then draw my weapon instead of my wallet and get a few shots off before the officer could even react? or just sit there with the gun in my lap waiting for him when he walks up to the window... all with the window down and a smile on my face.

the car doesn't have to be some POS with black limo tinted windows in order to be dangerous the the officer. the only thing that must exist in order for the officer to get shot is intent and willingness to act upon it. if both are present, tinted windows or crystal clear ones will not change anything.

if you can't understand the truth in that then you're just retarded.
ding,ding,ding,we have a winner