Few questions about K20 in a bubble

[dielan]

My friend told me a K20 swap into a 93 and up bubble is fairly easy with a few modifications. Just wondering if this is true because I wanna get back into Hondas.

[DC2.2GSR]

every honda swap is easy with only a few mods. K series swaps are no different. the biggest pain in the ass is removing the passenger side mount bracket and running the shift linkage into the cabin... the same exact things i had to do for my H swap. if you can operate a cut off wheel and a drill it's extremely easy. check out k20a.org for A LOT of info.

[dielan]

Is it worth it putting a k20 in a bubble?

[TurboGSR96]

Well money wise its never smart to put a $5000 engine into a $1500 car, but if it makes you happy do it.... I think for the money you could build a B to be just as powerful but to each his own.

[dielan]

I'm looking for all the advice I can get. I know some what about Hondas but I don't know a lot. So you think a B series motor would be the way to go?

[Yes SiR]

I'm looking for all the advice I can get. I know some what about Hondas but I don't know a lot. So you think a B series motor would be the way to go?

Everybody is jumping on the K-series bandwagon. :roll:

For the money, I'd rather have a built b18. If it were me, I'd look into a LS/VTEC or CRVTEC.

[Foolinaround]

everyone forgets about H series swaps they still move

[dielan]

What I'm looking to do is get a bubble but I don't know what motor would be the best to get.

[sleeper15]

What I'm looking to do is get a bubble but I don't know what motor would be the best to get.

well, here's a couple of suggestions

d-series turbo motor

b-series swap (what i got in my hatch)

h-series

k-series

the cheapest would be either a good d-series with a good turbo get, or if you look, a b18c1 (gsr motor).

k-series are still a little pricey, but, i've told myself whenever my b-series motor goes, i'm swappin in a k20.

but, my recomendation, just got with a b-series engine swap, for now.

[phillycivicsi]

k series arent all that expensive i sold one on here for 350 it was a k24z1orz3 dont remember but it was the k24 from the 7th gen accord

[dielan]

I'm not gonna be able to get a turbo anytime soon so for an all motor car b series would be the way to go?

[sleeper15]

I'm not gonna be able to get a turbo anytime soon so for an all motor car b series would be the way to go?

yeah.

but, don't expect monster power.

but, it's a good start.

[Yes SiR]

yeah.

but, don't expect monster power.

but, it's a good start.

Let's be honest, you can't expect "monster power" out of any honda motor. It is what it is.

You can build a really strong b-series; they're relatively simple to do, a good overall value and there is good aftermarket support.

[sleeper15]

Let's be honest, you can't expect "monster power" out of any honda motor. It is what it is.

You can build a really strong b-series; they're relatively simple to do, a good overall value and there is good aftermarket support.

if you have the money, you can make monster power out of any motor. getting it to the ground on the other hand, :lol:

but yes, b-series engine is a good start, plenty of aftermarket support, and are reliabe long as you take care of them

[dielan]

Sorry for all the questions guys I'm just trying to learn and I know you guys know what you're talking about. Should I go with a b16 or a b18 and would it be a direct swap or would I have to do some modifications? And also what kind of power can I expect?

[sleeper15]

Sorry for all the questions guys I'm just trying to learn and I know you guys know what you're talking about. Should I go with a b16 or a b18 and would it be a direct swap or would I have to do some modifications? And also what kind of power can I expect?

i'd recomend the b18c1 or b18c5.

the b16 motors lack torque. well, all honda motors lack torque, but that one especially.

with the b18c1, you start out at about 170hp stock, with the b18c5, around 195hp stock.

with simple bolt ons, you should see around -185-215hp at the crank, not wheel horse power.

or, if you go with a non-vtec motor, like the b18a or b18b motors, you start around 130-140hp. but, those motors tend to like boost (aka turbo).

they got kits for any civic with any b-series motors, just got to go on google or other honda sites and do your research. best way to learn. and remeber, search functions on forums is a life saver :thumbup:

[phillycivicsi]

Sorry for all the questions guys I'm just trying to learn and I know you guys know what you're talking about. Should I go with a b16 or a b18 and would it be a direct swap or would I have to do some modifications? And also what kind of power can I expect?

B16 a2with full bolt ons and tune should be 155-170 whp
B18 c1 with the same ur lookin at 160-175 whp
i could be wrong

Whats ur budget and how fast u wanna go

[sleeper15]

B16 a2with full bolt ons and tune should be 155-170 whp
B18 c1 with the same ur lookin at 160-175 whp
i could be wrong

Whats ur budget and how fast u wanna go

sounds bout right for a streetable setup

by b18c1 in my black hatch hit 201whp, but couldn't hold an idle to save its life after you got off the gas.

i've seen some b16 motors hit 185+ whp, but again, not a really streetable powerband.

[dielan]

First I gotta get the car. Rite now I'm paying 100 every other week for my car so I don't really have money rite now. I just wanna know what I should do.

[sleeper15]

First I gotta get the car. Rite now I'm paying 100 every other week for my car so I don't really have money rite now. I just wanna know what I should do.

well dude, if thats the case. save your money up. take things slow. no need to dump a **** ton of cash right into a car. especailly if it's your first time modding a car.

if you know you want to do a engine swap in your civic, then avoid doing any real engine mods to the stock motor thats in it, and maybe work on suspension and rims, maybe clean it up if it looks like crap, don't rice it out with ridcoulous body kits and neon lights.

but, take it slow and save your cash. don't go broke trying to mod your car.

by the way, got any pics of your civic?

[DC2.2GSR]

everyone forgets about H series swaps they still move

:mrgreen: :drag:

now if i can only finish the damn car.

[K20EF9]

Well money wise its never smart to put a $5000 engine into a $1500 car, but if it makes you happy do it.... I think for the money you could build a B to be just as powerful but to each his own.

You can do a K swap now a days for around $6000

Everybody is jumping on the K-series bandwagon. :roll:

For the money, I'd rather have a built b18. If it were me, I'd look into a LS/VTEC or CRVTEC.

Building an LSV or B20v right isn't cheap either. We are talking like $3000 if done right.

Let's be honest, you can't expect "monster power" out of any honda motor. It is what it is.

You can build a really strong b-series; they're relatively simple to do, a good overall value and there is good aftermarket support.

What do you consider monster power..? I know of B series setup making 250whp NA that are DD on pump gas.

i'd recomend the b18c1 or b18c5.

the b16 motors lack torque. well, all honda motors lack torque, but that one especially.

with the b18c1, you start out at about 170hp stock, with the b18c5, around 195hp stock.

with simple bolt ons, you should see around -185-215hp at the crank, not wheel horse power.

or, if you go with a non-vtec motor, like the b18a or b18b motors, you start around 130-140hp. but, those motors tend to like boost (aka turbo).

they got kits for any civic with any b-series motors, just got to go on google or other honda sites and do your research. best way to learn. and remeber, search functions on forums is a life saver :thumbup:

A legit ITR Swap is going to cost just as much as going K. A Legit GSR Swap is going to cost about half.

B16 a2with full bolt ons and tune should be 155-170 whp
B18 c1 with the same ur lookin at 160-175 whp
i could be wrong

Whats ur budget and how fast u wanna go

B16 with bolt ons making 170whp and GSR's making 175whp...? That's a very nice dyno.

sounds bout right for a streetable setup

by b18c1 in my black hatch hit 201whp, but couldn't hold an idle to save its life after you got off the gas.

i've seen some b16 motors hit 185+ whp, but again, not a really streetable powerband.

What was your setup..? I know of plenty of simple built GSR's making over what you made and they run perfectly fine.

It's going to take quite a bit to break 185whp + on a B16.

[Yes SiR]

Building an LSV or B20v right isn't cheap either. We are talking like $3000 if done right.

I didn't say it was cheap. I said "for the money."

What do you consider monster power..? I know of B series setup making 250whp NA that are DD on pump gas.

LOL. 250 hp isn't "monster power." I know of a local del sol pushing 500 with a b, that's respectable, but not a reasonable goal for most people. Besides that, hp isn't the end all of performance. It's a balance of hp, torque, compression, displacement, weight, etc, not to mention having your car tuned properly, having a suspension set up to support said power, running the right tires.... it's not just how big of a motor you can slap into your tiny Honda. There are a lot of other components that need to work together that go into producing a decent car.

To the OP, you really need to figure out what it is that you're looking to get out of your car. Read up on the pros and cons of different motor set ups and make your own choice. Everyone is going to have their own opinions based on their own experiences. I'd prefer to have a car that's fun to drive, rather than just being able to go fast in a straight line. I'd never waste my time with that torqueless wonder, the b16. Then again, I'm a d-series whore... But that's me and my preference.

[jbdakid]

250 WHP is good for a NA setup, I think that's the point he was making?

If you want to stay NA, K series has more potential IMO. You could argue for all of the motors though, you need to sit down and figure out what you want the car to be and go from there. You probably won't find one single answer but at least you can narrow it down some.

[sleeper15]

250 WHP is good for a NA setup, I think that's the point he was making?

If you want to stay NA, K series has more potential IMO. You could argue for all of the motors though, you need to sit down and figure out what you want the car to be and go from there. You probably won't find one single answer but at least you can narrow it down some.

yes, 250h is good for a b-series N/A setup, but it's not "monster" power. and when i was talking monster power, i was jokeing.

anyways, from what the orignal kids question was, and listening to his finicail situation, i'd recommend he wait on modding the car, and save up some damn cash.

and yes, there are so many different was you can go, i prefer b-series, others still like the d-series, and some rove the k-series engines.

[jbdakid]

anyways, from what the orignal kids question was, and listening to his finicail situation, i'd recommend he wait on modding the car, and save up some damn cash.

and yes, there are so many different was you can go, i prefer b-series, others still like the d-series, and some rove the k-series engines.

Agree 100%. Because once you get in the middle of a swap, you're going to keep spending dough until you get it finished!

[sleeper15]

Agree 100%. Because once you get in the middle of a swap, you're going to keep spending dough until you get it finished!

then it's settled.

save your damn cash!

[ImportDPS]

K-Series all the way. The Stock K20A2 in the Type S makes more with bolt ons and Kpro than 12.5 Compression'ed GSR... Its just fact, its a badass engine and one hell of a start for a hatch.

[dielan]

Rite now I have a V6 Mustang that is a complete piece of sh*t. I got ripped off buyt I had 500 cash and thats what I needed to drive off the lot with it, so unfortunetly I did it. I'm looking to get a hatch with a decent body to use as my DD while i save the cash, because as I said I'm paying 100 every other week for the Mustang and it's hard to save. I've put $900 off fixing problems in the past month and a half. How much do you think an okay hatch, that can atleast be a reliable DD would be. I know I'm not gonna get a nice a** body, as long as it can just be driven but not beat on and keep running until I save for the swap.

[sleeper15]

Rite now I have a V6 Mustang that is a complete piece of sh*t. I got ripped off buyt I had 500 cash and thats what I needed to drive off the lot with it, so unfortunetly I did it. I'm looking to get a hatch with a decent body to use as my DD while i save the cash, because as I said I'm paying 100 every other week for the Mustang and it's hard to save. I've put $900 off fixing problems in the past month and a half. How much do you think an okay hatch, that can atleast be a reliable DD would be. I know I'm not gonna get a nice a** body, as long as it can just be driven but not beat on and keep running until I save for the swap.

well with me money wise, i've always had this phliosphy.

If i know i want to spend $6000 on a car, i need at least $12,000, just in case.

it's always how i've been. Hell, my first car was a 88 escort gt, i paid $800 for it. But, i save up $1600 before i got it. you always need money for the oh sh*t factor.

So, this is how i would break it down for you

Decent 92-95 hatch (stock)- $1500-$2500

engine swap and mods- $1000-$4000

suspension (i high recomend) - $400-$2000 (really high end ****)

thats just a rough estamite.

with me, when i got my 92 hatch, i paid $6000, and it alrdy had some suspension work, rims and b18c1 swap. then i dumbed a **** ton of money into the engine and more suspension work, which came to about $8000+ (including shop work). and i just repainted it myself.

so, no matter what, it's going to cost money.

just deal with the ****stang for a while, save up the best you can.

[dielan]

I gotcha. Rite now the car is barely starting, plus I have fines to pay.

[sleeper15]

I gotcha. Rite now the car is barely starting, plus I have fines to pay.

yeah, pay up your fines and debts, and, if they mustang does hit the ****, then get a good running civic.

[Keeper1343]

I look at it this way. If your looking just to go straight, and only straight. Get a H series because they put down more power then B series with the same mods. Thats a fact. If your looking to be a autocross/straight line car then i would get a B series. And if you are going to be the type of driver that doesn't beat on your car constantly in a straightline and find yourself beating the suspension constantly, stick with a built D-series. D series offers the best balance for the car overall.

[dielan]

I'm so close to taking the mustang back to the dealer and telling him to go **** himself and buying a bicycle for the time being lol.

[K20EF9]

I didn't say it was cheap. I said "for the money."



LOL. 250 hp isn't "monster power." I know of a local del sol pushing 500 with a b, that's respectable, but not a reasonable goal for most people. Besides that, hp isn't the end all of performance. It's a balance of hp, torque, compression, displacement, weight, etc, not to mention having your car tuned properly, having a suspension set up to support said power, running the right tires.... it's not just how big of a motor you can slap into your tiny Honda. There are a lot of other components that need to work together that go into producing a decent car.

To the OP, you really need to figure out what it is that you're looking to get out of your car. Read up on the pros and cons of different motor set ups and make your own choice. Everyone is going to have their own opinions based on their own experiences. I'd prefer to have a car that's fun to drive, rather than just being able to go fast in a straight line. I'd never waste my time with that torqueless wonder, the b16. Then again, I'm a d-series whore... But that's me and my preference.

I was referring to 250whp NA B that's DD on Pump Gas with only about 11:7:1 Compression.

It does go 11's...

250 WHP is good for a NA setup, I think that's the point he was making?

If you want to stay NA, K series has more potential IMO. You could argue for all of the motors though, you need to sit down and figure out what you want the car to be and go from there. You probably won't find one single answer but at least you can narrow it down some.

At least somebody understood.

K series does have more potential overall some dude on k20a.org made 280 something to the wheels still on pump gas.

yes, 250h is good for a b-series N/A setup, but it's not "monster" power. and when i was talking monster power, i was jokeing.

anyways, from what the orignal kids question was, and listening to his finicail situation, i'd recommend he wait on modding the car, and save up some damn cash.

and yes, there are so many different was you can go, i prefer b-series, others still like the d-series, and some rove the k-series engines.

250whp is Monster Power for an NA 4 cylinder on pump gas. 250whp is good enough to take the car into 11's full interior.

K-Series all the way. The Stock K20A2 in the Type S makes more with bolt ons and Kpro than 12.5 Compression'ed GSR... Its just fact, its a badass engine and one hell of a start for a hatch.

Theres a local GSR Hatch to me with a simple build that put down 220whp with Rs Machines Pistons that are less than 12:5 compression, so I wouldn't be too sure about yourself on that one.

Stock port Head with valves, springs, retainers, and blox c cams.
Block has 81.5mm Rs Machines ITR Pistons.
AEBS Intake Manifold
Custom header

I'd also be willing to bet there isn't at least $6000 into the car which seems to be the minimum on K swaps.

Now could he have spent a little more money and made the same power with a Bolt on Kpro K, obviously yes, but I'm just proving a point since you want to give out false information.

[Yes SiR]

Hey, K20EF9, no need to be such a dick. It's already very clear what your preferences are. :roll:

No one here said 250 wasn't a good number "for an NA 4 cylinder on pump gas" Honda, however if you think that 250 is seriously "monster hp" get out and see the world.

Taking into account the OP's financial situation, a $6000 minimum motor swap doesn't seem like the best idea. Clearly if we all had limitless pockets our cars would be different. So again, it's not just about the biggest coolest motor, it's a combination of factors that go into deciding what modifications we all do, such as money, time, priorities...

[K20EF9]

Hey, K20EF9, no need to be such a dick. It's already very clear what your preferences are. :roll:

No one here said 250 wasn't a good number "for an NA 4 cylinder on pump gas" Honda, however if you think that 250 is seriously "monster hp" get out and see the world.

Taking into account the OP's financial situation, a $6000 minimum motor swap doesn't seem like the best idea. Clearly if we all had limitless pockets our cars would be different. So again, it's not just about the biggest coolest motor, it's a combination of factors that go into deciding what modifications we all do, such as money, time, priorities...

I'm not a dick I tell it like it is. What are my preferences..?

Do I think 250 is "monster hp" when it comes to all motors, cars, setups no, but if you read what I said 250whp is good power for a NA 4 cylinder thats Daily Driven. 250whp is enough to power the car to 11's full weight. How many cars honestly do you see each day on the road that run 11's..?

No one told him he had to do a $6000 motor swap(K series).

You can do a mildy built GSR that will make over 200whp easy for around $4000 including the full swap.

He could do an H22 Swap with good bolt ons for under $3000 and break 200whp. Or he could spend around $4000 and go H2b with good bolt ons.

Technically he could also do a J swap for around $4000 as well except then he'd have to cut the hood lol

And as you know you can always find good deals on things if you search. Also Honda-Tech always has good vendor deals for new parts. Hell I know someone who just sold a complete b16 swap into an ef for $600 just because they wanted it gone.

[dielan]

I just got a 93 bubble yesterday, completely stock and a little Honda cancer. It's the DX so i'm definitely gonna be swapping another engine in eventually.

[sleeper15]

I just got a 93 bubble yesterday, completely stock and a little Honda cancer. It's the DX so i'm definitely gonna be swapping another engine in eventually.

nice dude.

if i was you, i'd take care of the rust first, make sure the car is in good running order before you do anything else to it.

and post pics when you get the chance

[dielan]

the one side is kinda bad and the other side is forming some rust. only down side is it's automatic :( it has a small oil leak also, but it was only $1750 so i hopped on it. the speedometer doesnt work so the odometer doesnt either. but in feb of 2009 the title said the milage was 86,600 and no the odmeter is stuck at 87,xxx so i figured it has about 91,xxx on it. will definitely get some pics up when i have the time.

[DelSol95]

it makes me a little mad when there is people talkin about hondas and dont no too much about them. H motors are junk! the power to weight ratio is horrible. and ive seen reliable 700whp hondas so dont say they cant make power. if you want to do a somewhat nice reliable all motor ide go with built b16 but dont expect to make over 200hp. lsvtec u can do good power. poeple always rag on hondas, and k motors are not easy to swap into a bubble. u gotta customize alot of things. all said and done ur lookin at 8 grand opr more to put a K in the right way. i am best friends with a master mechanic that works at a acura dealership. he always says "swear by the B series" K mnotors the bottom ends are built like D series motors. if i were u ide look more into it before listening to some of the honda haters on tristate.

[dielan]

oh i definitely am. i know a mechanic and im gonna talk to him, i was just seeing what everyone would say. i'll most likely go with a b series.

[scottsworld77]

i would go bseries if you can gsr,i love mine and it makes good power

[K20EF9]

it makes me a little mad when there is people talkin about hondas and dont no too much about them. H motors are junk! the power to weight ratio is horrible. and ive seen reliable 700whp hondas so dont say they cant make power. if you want to do a somewhat nice reliable all motor ide go with built b16 but dont expect to make over 200hp. lsvtec u can do good power. poeple always rag on hondas, and k motors are not easy to swap into a bubble. u gotta customize alot of things. all said and done ur lookin at 8 grand opr more to put a K in the right way. i am best friends with a master mechanic that works at a acura dealership. he always says "swear by the B series" K mnotors the bottom ends are built like D series motors. if i were u ide look more into it before listening to some of the honda haters on tristate.

LOL maybe you shouldn't talk about Hondas then.

H motors are not junk. If you think the what 30 pound weight difference for the motor really hurts anything in straight line racing you are sadly mistaken.

Have you ever saw the inside of a K series..?

A K series head outflows any B series head.

K series sleeves are ridiculously stronger than that of a B.

Now just add a sleeved block and the portwork to get a B head to flow like a K and to make a B block virtually indestructible you just spent at least $2000.

It costs around $6000 to go K series the right way.

You just spent $2000 on a bare block and bare head for a B series.

Theres a reason why an All Motor K series ran a 10.49 last weekend, an H series did an 10.8x, and I believe the quickest B did an 11.0x

[dielan]

if i do a gsr swap i gotta get a new axle too right?

[SvicksTc]

if i do a gsr swap i gotta get a new axle too right?

correct

[dielan]

whats a good estimate of how much a gsr swap would be? like with the engine, tranny, ecu, wiring harness, axle, and a manual conversion?

[jbdakid]

whats a good estimate of how much a gsr swap would be? like with the engine, tranny, ecu, wiring harness, axle, and a manual conversion?

Full swaps...$2500 - $3000

[dielan]

and how much do you think a shop would charge to swap it?

[K20EF9]

Around $500

[dielan]

where should i look for and engine and tranny and everything?

[Mr.Crx]

and how much do you think a shop would charge to swap it?

Contact a local shop to get an accurate estimate...

[slate13530]

Contact a local shop to get an accurate estimate...

I agree or just do it your self on a weekend.

[dielan]

What would an h22 swap require?

[Mr.Crx]

What would an h22 swap require?

A little research..

[SovXietday]

it makes me a little mad when there is people talkin about hondas and dont no too much about them. H motors are junk! the power to weight ratio is horrible. and ive seen reliable 700whp hondas so dont say they cant make power. if you want to do a somewhat nice reliable all motor ide go with built b16 but dont expect to make over 200hp. lsvtec u can do good power. poeple always rag on hondas, and k motors are not easy to swap into a bubble. u gotta customize alot of things. all said and done ur lookin at 8 grand opr more to put a K in the right way. i am best friends with a master mechanic that works at a acura dealership. he always says "swear by the B series" K mnotors the bottom ends are built like D series motors. if i were u ide look more into it before listening to some of the honda haters on tristate.

"Reliable" 700whp Honda's? LOL. Sorry buddy, but that's called a forum fantasy. Anyone making that kind of power who actually uses it at the race track a lot will tell you, straight up, 700whp is not reliable. It breaks ****, a lot of ****, all the time. You're best friend of a friend of a friend who knows a guy online who once told a story about a guy who made 700whp all the time and got traction on street tires on a dirt road even after driving for 100,000 miles is probably about as full of **** as you are.

Anyway, dielan, you're best course of action would probably to spend a few weeks researching how to do swaps and what you need on Honda-tech.com for a while. There is a whole section dedicated to just swapping, and it is so easy to find everything you need.

Here's my opinion, just do a Bseries swap. The Kseries engine is an amazing engine and the potential behind it is retarded. However, it's expensive. The ECU tuning software behind it alone is over 1K. Bseries is tried and true, easy to put in, easy to troubleshoot, cheap to tune when you upgrade, fairly inexpensive if you know what you're doing, and best of all, spare parts are a stone throw away in any direction. Bseries has great potential, proven strength, proven methods of making things work, and they're known for their reliability in most cases.

Or you could just screw all the swapping and make more power then all of them with an easy, cheap, turbo D.

[dielan]

Thanks SovXietday. Despite how expensive a K series swap is I thinks that's what I'm gonna do. The more I look into it the more I wanna do it. Just like you said, the potential is ridiculous. My friend has an RSX type S and whenever I'm in it I want it more and more. And I'm probably losing my license for atleast 6 months and I turn 18 this month so I'm gonna have a better job hopefully so my plan is when I get my license back is to atleast have the swap done.

[Lambo123]

"k-series bottom ends built like d-series bottom ends..." lmfao. everyone hates on k-series because there's still a stigma surrounding it about the cost factor. kinda like saying if you put nitrous in your car it will blow up. most of these kids have never even driven in a k-series car. take a ride in a k24/k20 swapped honda and you'll see why its worth it. i've been through many b-series setups, then went k. i will NEVER go back. now if you're going forced induction thats a different story...

[CHR!S]

this thread makes me laugh