Can a lightweight wheel make more power?

[JDMTyler3326]

Can a lighter wheel make more power (HP) ? Or does it not make a different.

[twastheglow]

Make more power, not a chance. But what it WILL do is reduce unsprung weight thus improving acceleration, breaking and handling.

[JDMTyler3326]

Make more power, not a chance. But what it WILL do is reduce unsprung weight thus improving acceleration, breaking and handling.

I forgot where I red this but since it improves the acceleration won't that give it a little more HP?

[supraghost]

I forgot where I red this but since it improves the acceleration won't that give it a little more HP?

no. its along the lines of reducing the weight of your car. it will make it faster but gutting your car is not gonna increase hp.

in general 10lbs of rotation mass reduction is equal to 100lbs weight reduction or .1sec in the 1/4.

[twastheglow]

I forgot where I red this but since it improves the acceleration won't that give it a little more HP?

Ummm...no. If you make 100whp, you'll be making 100whp no matter what wheels you have...however, that 100whp will get your car moving ever-so-slightly faster with lighter wheels. Honestly though, don't get all excited, you most like wouldn't notice a difference (unless of course your switching 50lbs wheels for 15lbs wheels, lol).

[twastheglow]

no. its along the lines of reducing the weight of your car. it will make it faster but gutting your car is not gonna increase hp.

in general 10lbs of rotation mass reduction is equal to 100lbs weight reduction or .1sec in the 1/4.

Exactly, you're not going to notice it. You MAY notice it at a track when you're getting time slips.

[TR MS3]

I like you man, but your crazy! /thread

[turboman808]

Car will be faster plain and simple.

Not sure if it will show any power increase on a dyno graph. I have a feeling it might actually.

[JDMTyler3326]

Ok I saw it on DSport Mag. I just went out and got the magazine. A lighter wheel does increase the power of a car.

[jpalamar]

Wheels will not give your motor more HP.

[BustedUjoint]

Make more power, not a chance. But what it WILL do is reduce unsprung weight thus improving acceleration, breaking and handling.

no. its along the lines of reducing the weight of your car. it will make it faster but gutting your car is not gonna increase hp.

in general 10lbs of rotation mass reduction is equal to 100lbs weight reduction or .1sec in the 1/4.

Ummm...no. If you make 100whp, you'll be making 100whp no matter what wheels you have...however, that 100whp will get your car moving ever-so-slightly faster with lighter wheels. Honestly though, don't get all excited, you most like wouldn't notice a difference (unless of course your switching 50lbs wheels for 15lbs wheels, lol).

Exactly, you're not going to notice it. You MAY notice it at a track when you're getting time slips.

Car will be faster plain and simple.

Not sure if it will show any power increase on a dyno graph. I have a feeling it might actually.

Ok I saw it on DSport Mag. I just went out and got the magazine. A lighter wheel does increase the power of a car.

Please reference the above quotes. If you are going to argue the point 1) You're wrong 2) You are wasting our time. It will NOT increase your HP. It will only LIGHTEN the car. Which, as stated several times previously, will only improve times and response. . .NOT Horsepower.

:furious: CLIFFNOTES: YOU ARE WRONG! IT WILL NOT ****ING GIVE YOU MORE HORSEPOWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious:

[twastheglow]

Please reference the above quotes. If you are going to argue the point 1) You're wrong 2) You are wasting our time. It will NOT increase your HP. It will only LIGHTEN the car. Which, as stated several times previously, will only improve times and response. . .NOT Horsepower.

:furious: CLIFFNOTES: YOU ARE WRONG! IT WILL NOT ****ING GIVE YOU MORE HORSEPOWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious:

hahahaha Thank you.

[Scapegoat]

i'm personally going to lose 20 lbs to increase the hp of my car while i'm in it, **** yeah!

[Elliott18t]

Ok I saw it on DSport Mag. I just went out and got the magazine. A lighter wheel does increase the power of a car.

obviously that mag is ****ing retarded and you should probably stop reading it.

[twastheglow]

Ok I saw it on DSport Mag. I just went out and got the magazine. A lighter wheel does increase the power of a car.

DSport Mag or DBag Mag?

[Scapegoat]

i showed my buddy this thread... he's got an MS6, but isn't much of a car guy per se... but this was his response.

haha, I read the 3rd post, made a face and then looked at the 4th post and it was the same face I made

[BigWhiteTodd]

yeah and if put drilled and slotted rotors you get more hp too..... haha

[turboman808]

Please reference the above quotes. If you are going to argue the point 1) You're wrong 2) You are wasting our time. It will NOT increase your HP. It will only LIGHTEN the car. Which, as stated several times previously, will only improve times and response. . .NOT Horsepower.

:furious: CLIFFNOTES: YOU ARE WRONG! IT WILL NOT ****ING GIVE YOU MORE HORSEPOWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious:

And your an idiot who cannot read. Just like light weight pistons, cranks, flywheels and driveshafts don't technically increase the HP of a car. They will however reduce the effort it takes to turn the entire drive train.

No matter how you slice it, it will show on any dyno an increase in power.

Just like adding big brakes, big wheels, big tires or chorme wheels will show a decrease on power.

If you want to have a technical jerkoff have fun. The truth is it all means more power to the road.

[twastheglow]

driving naked = more hp!

don't forget to take a **** before you go to the track either

So does taking off all the cars body panels!

[Scapegoat]

And your an idiot who cannot read. Just like light weight pistons, cranks, flywheels and driveshafts don't technically increase the HP of a car. They will however reduce the effort it takes to turn the entire drive train.

No matter how you slice it, it will show on any dyno an increase in power.

Just like adding big brakes, big wheels, big tires or chorme wheels will show a decrease on power.

If you want to have a technical jerkoff have fun. The truth is it all means more power to the road.

but... reducing weight doesn't equate to more power to the road. it equates to less weight the engine has to move, meaning it will be quicker. what is it... 100lbs in reduction is equivalent to taking the same car as it is and increasing 10 hp? (or is that 20hp, i forget)

the truth is... reducing weight does not equal more hp

[JDMTyler3326]

From the Mag.....

Wheels with lower inertia will allow a vehicle to accelerate quicker and use less energy for braking. We tested the effects of wheel weight on a stock 06 Infiniti G35 Coupe (6 speed) strapped to an ''inertia'' chassis dyno (DynoJet 248). All 3 wheel (Volk Racing GT-F, Enkei GTC01, and the chrome after market dealer option) were equipped with the identical tire size (245/35r19). All 3 wheels tested were within 1 horsepower of the peak power. But a close look at eh dyno graph reveals a dramatic difference. The Enkei GTC01 clearly makes more power from 4,900 RPM to the 7,00 RPM redline. At 6,200 RPM the GTc01 wheel reduces drivetrain loss by 5 HP, also a noticeable difference. 10 Pounds of the weight per drivewheel (20 LBS. total) is a lot of rotational inertia to move and at the track the difference in wheel weights can be the difference between taking the win and losing............

19x9.5 Chrome, 55 lbs. , 259.31 WHP - at Baseline
19x9.5 Volk GT-F, 49 lbs. , 260.10 WHP - +3 WHP at 6,725 RPM
19x8.5 Enkei GTc01 , 45 ibs. , 260.91 WHP - +5 WHP at 6,200 RPM

[Scapegoat]

drive train loss and increasing hp are two different things

[Elliott18t]

From the Mag.....

Wheels with lower inertia will allow a vehicle to accelerate quicker and use less energy for braking. We tested the effects of wheel weight on a stock 06 Infiniti G35 Coupe (6 speed) strapped to an ''inertia'' chassis dyno (DynoJet 248). All 3 wheel (Volk Racing GT-F, Enkei GTC01, and the chrome after market dealer option) were equipped with the identical tire size (245/35r19). All 3 wheels tested were within 1 horsepower of the peak power. But a close look at eh dyno graph reveals a dramatic difference. The Enkei GTC01 clearly makes more power from 4,900 RPM to the 7,00 RPM redline. At 6,200 RPM the GTc01 wheel reduces drivetrain loss by 5 HP, also a noticeable difference. 10 Pounds of the weight per drivewheel (20 LBS. total) is a lot of rotational inertia to move and at the track the difference in wheel weights can be the difference between taking the win and losing............

19x9.5 Chrome, 55 lbs. , 259.31 WHP - at Baseline
19x9.5 Volk GT-F, 49 lbs. , 260.10 WHP - +3 WHP at 6,725 RPM
19x8.5 Enkei GTc01 , 45 ibs. , 260.91 WHP - +5 WHP at 6,200 RPM

this is not adding horsepower... its easier access to the power at a different power band due to weight from the wheel.

think of it this way... try turning a 50lbs wheel on an axis up to speed... then try it with two lighter ones.. whats going to be easier? obviously the lighter ones; all your power will be put towards speed faster than the 50 lbs one sooner.. pretty much what they are saying here... thus a SLIGHT increase in acceleration... not power..

[jpalamar]

screw spending that much on wheels when you can get a gym membership. All you fatties with CF and lightweight wheels make me laugh.

[turboman808]

From JG Engine Dynamics.

The things we have seen that affect the most Hp losses to the wheels are the following. Locked diffs, heavy wheels, dyno tuning with slicks, un even tire pressures, heavy axles, heavy oil in the gear box and oversize front brakes and rotors. In race cars we have seen seen as little as 6% difference with most averaging 8-9%. Most street cars average at about 11-13% difference. Off road race cars will loose quite a bit more because they use very heavy drive train parts and long axles. To summarize, if you know how much Hp your engine is producing at the crank and at the wheels, then you will know how much hidden Hp lies in the drive train. You can work twords getting as much of that hidden Hp as possible.


Now go ahead and back track so you don't look like a loud mouth idiot.

I love how we magically have better acceleration without more power reaching the ground. Thats a genius statement if I ever heard one. Right up there with the light weight fly wheels don't allow the turbo to fully spool because you accelerate to quickly. People still arguing on that?

[The Captain]

drive train loss and increasing hp are two different things

this. You're not adding power, you're free'ing up power that is already there.

[The Captain]

I love how we magically have better acceleration without more power reaching the ground. Thats a genius statement if I ever heard one. Right up there with the light weight fly wheels don't allow the turbo to fully spool because you accelerate to quickly. People still arguing on that?

2000lb car w/ 150hp vs. 3000lb car w/ 150 hp. Lighter will accelerate better. Weight and weight affecting drive train loss are two different things.

[BigWhiteTodd]

So if I don't have tires on my rims I will be faster.

[MTuning]

does anyone know where i can get a tune for my wheels?

[turboman808]

2000lb car w/ 150hp vs. 3000lb car w/ 150 hp. Lighter will accelerate better. Weight and weight affecting drive train loss are two different things.

Now you are talking power to weight ratio.

Are we discussing drive train loss or power to weight ratio. 2 very different topics.

[Scapegoat]

Now you are talking power to weight ratio.

Are we discussing drive train loss or power to weight ratio. 2 very different topics.

ultimately the same discussion. you take that 3,000lb car and reduce the weight to the same as the 1500lb car. the 3k car didn't increase its hp... its still putting out 150hp from the block

recovering lost hp from drivetrain loss by reducing the vehicles weight does not increase the engine's hp

[BlkWhtTSI]

a lighter wheel will allow more power to be put to the wheels but its really not much, your car may be 40 pounds lighter but to really feel and get results you've still go another 60 pounds to lose. every 100 pounds is about a tenth of a second

[twastheglow]

I am elated that this thread is still going! buwahahahahaahahahaahahahaahaa

[Elliott18t]

its freeing power from drive train loss not gaining more power, as it has been said many times in this thread...


/thread.

[05GT]

19x9.5 Chrome, 55 lbs. , 259.31 WHP - at Baseline
19x9.5 Volk GT-F, 49 lbs. , 260.10 WHP - +3 WHP at 6,725 RPM
19x8.5 Enkei GTc01 , 45 ibs. , 260.91 WHP - +5 WHP at 6,200 RPM

Wow....I can't believe how dumb some people in this thread are.

All those saying more power lighter wheels, did you even look at the above example? It fluctuated what, 1hp tops. You never GAINED over PEAK HP. All it did was change where PEAK HP was reached. It did NOT add additional HP.

Power to weight ratio, and drive train loss essentially leads to the same end result and discussion.

Scape mentioned this already.

My IQ has dropped just reading some of the responses in this thread.

[twastheglow]

What if I buy heavier wheels but turbo my car?

[SpEcRv9]

TST isn't even a forum anymore. People can't make thread and TRY to learn something. It was a yes or no question and an explain.

and the answer was no, and it was explained why.

[Elliott18t]

you got no multiple times, and still you didnt believe them..

[The Captain]

TST isn't even a forum anymore. People can't make thread and TRY to learn something. It was a yes or no question and an explain.

What tyler is trying to say is that the comments about his age/bike are not necessary when he's clearly trying to learn something. Yes, helpful information was posted, but there is too many people who take it as an opportunity to take shots at him, specifically members who were in his same position not too long ago but clearly dont remember that.

Keep it on topic and positive. Sheeesh.

[SpEcRv9]

I was trying to learn him something about not posting where people live in spotted threads.....but he was too cool for school on that issue. I wasn't doing it to make fun of him just because, it's a serious thing that he doesn't understand yet and needs to....

people in this thread answered his question but he still wouldn't believe it...so after a while what do you expect?...a few smartasses with smartass comments.

[Scapegoat]

I was trying to learn him something about not posting where people live in spotted threads.....but he was too cool for school on that issue. I wasn't doing it to make fun of him just because, it's a serious thing that he doesn't understand yet and needs to....

people in this thread answered his question but he still wouldn't believe it...so after a while what do you expect?...a few smartasses with smartass comments.

i had a nonsmartass comment too :o

[JDMTyler3326]

I was trying to learn him something about not posting where people live in spotted threads.....but he was too cool for school on that issue. I wasn't doing it to make fun of him just because, it's a serious thing that he doesn't understand yet and needs to....

people in this thread answered his question but he still wouldn't believe it...so after a while what do you expect?...a few smartasses with smartass comments.

I never said I didn't believe you guys.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Tyler.... you know I love to break your balls. I understand you don't know cars at all other then you like them. But knowing what you know, not much at all, its not a horrible question.

There is less rotational mass. Its the same as a light weight flywheel axle / drift shaft. The less weight your spinning the less work the engine does.

However when we dyno our cars is a calculation based on torque that calculates the power based on the work the wheels do, by the torque they apply. Less rotational mass will allow more power to be applied to the wheels. So the answer would be yes. But its such an insignificant amount when you compare the vehicle weight vs the power at the wheels. But if you did shave off 5 lbs per wheel and dyno it before and after you may see a very small increase.

For those who will argue power does not go up, then I suggest you read all about mechanical horsepower and the formulas associated with this. Then after you read that remember that the way we obtain it is by external values that are calculated to give us a power representation.

Now back to being a dick... go get some young trim.. your 15 but not forever!!!

[Appl3]

since it looks like you own a civic...its hard to get stuff through ur head...so...stickers will add power also! get them asap especially the Greddy etc brand names

[ASIAN JUL]

Did you already have the magazine by the time you posted this thread?

[TROLL]

Totally legitimate question and makes for decent conversation on something many people on here obviously are not clear on.

Lots of very strong opinions in this thread, many of which are, well, wrong. Wouldn't it be nice to have a disagreement without having to insult the people you dont agree with (especially when you're not even correct)?

Let me be the first to really address crank horsepower vs. wheel horsepower directly. Lightening your rotational mass (wheels, brakes, driveshaft, flywheel, etc etc.) reduces drivetrain loss since it requires less work for the engine to put the power to the ground. So with any of these changes a 300 crank hp still makes the exact same crank hp, however with any of the lightening mentioned above it may improve the drivetrain loss from say 15% down to only 12%, changing your wheel horsepower from 255 to 264.

Does that 'increase horsepower'? I guess it depends on semantics, but when you reduce drivetrain loss you do put more power to the ground. No one said anything about peak horsepower, and until now I haven't heard crank hp vs. wheel hp really dissected. Bottom line is lightening improves performance in every way... accelleration, decelleration, and turning. Decreases engine wear, tire wear, brake wear, and every other kind of wear to your car... improves gas mileage, and more.

Adding lightness is always a good thing (says the guy with two cars well into the 3,xxx range).

Oh and just to bring up something many dont think about... tires almost always weigh more than wheels, and of course also have an affect on rotational mass and performance, especially since tires make for weight farthest from the center of the wheel, increasing the effect of the weight. Some tires are significantly lighter than others, but of course there are many other factors to consider with a tire. My 17x8.5 Enkei RPF-1s weigh 16 lbs each, and my 245/40/17 Hankook Ventus RS-2 tires weigh 24.5 lbs each, for example.

[supraghost]

troll, you said the tires weigh more than the rim?

so on comparison, two different sets of wheels with the exact same total diameter (rim plus tire).

so a larger rim with a low profile will be lighter than a smaller rim with a higher sidewall?

or even if they are the exact same total weight, the larger rim will give better acceleration due to less of the weight being further from the center of the rim (Mo= mass x perpendicular distance)?

i always thought it was the other way around.

[TROLL]

Well, I assume that the majority of the weight is from the steel belts in the tire, which are under the tread, so changing the sidewall size of the tire won't have too much of an effect.

[OJ-SPEC]

lighter wheels free up more wheel horsepower that you have from the crank horsepowaaaa! say you have 180whp and 200 hp at the crank.. when you get lighter wheels you will get 185whp but still 200 crank!!! i think...

[Scapegoat]

lighter wheels free up more wheel horsepower that you have from the crank horsepowaaaa! say you have 180whp and 200 hp at the crank.. when you get lighter wheels you will get 185whp but still 200 crank!!! i think...

while i'm sure the numbers aren't spot on... in theory, correct. you're not increasing your horsepower, you're just getting back lost hp.

I don't think there are any semantics about this. you want to increase your hp, up the boost, increase intake and exhaust efficiency, cams, supercharger, nitrous, etc.

I don't think its fair to call reducing hp loss increasing hp. If your BHP isn't going up... you're not increasing anything. Am i increasing my HP by removing my spare tire? I don't think so... i'm freeing up some weight so there is less for the 315bhp engine to move.

[oneday]

I'm a huge proponent of running the smallest, lightest wheel/tire you can afford to. Heavier wheels/tires take more power to rotate and therefor cost you HP. You can not gain real HP by running a lighter wheel, only increase the amount that is not lost. Lighter wheels/tires can provide better handling, improved steering feedback & steering response and, most importantly, better gas mileage :-p.

Pretty much all of the weight added from going with a +1 size wheel/tire package is from the wheel itself, not the tire. I run a 9.5lb 15x7 +41 RPF1 with 21lb 205/50-15 Bridgestone RE-11s, so total weight of wheel & tire is 30.5lbs.

A similar overall diameter package would be a 13.7lb 16x7 with a 22lb 205/45-16 weighing 35.7lbs. The 16" tire, has a .1" larger OD and a .1" narrower contact patch and a .5" narrower sidewall, compared to the 15" package.

Another tire example: 245/45-17 and 245/40-18 RE-11s are both 28lbs and have a OD of 25.7".

Enkei RPF-1 Specs (http://www.enkei.com/RacingSeriesSpecs/RPF1.html)
Bridgeston RE-11 Specs (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE-11&tirePageLocQty=)

[suprmonky73]

^what he said :)

i have the same wheels and tires! but they are gonig up for sale :(

[ndubz]

A light wheel will have a lower moment of inertia and will take less force to spin. therefore, yes, It may reduce your drivetrain power loss. But unless ur talking about a huge difference in weight between the wheel sets, this gain wont really be too noticeable.

so the answer is yes, but not really enough to care.

[Foolinaround]

should we bring into the point that a light weight flywheel on a turbo car will have less of a load on the motor therefore making higher boost levels harder to achieve by having less rotational mass

[97TurboDSM]

this thread made me go WOW.

[92sileighty]

this thread made me go WOW.

not being a dick but why?

[93EGY8]

does anyone know where i can get a tune for my wheels?

/thread. best...response...ever!!! lol im rofled like crazy

[97TurboDSM]

not being a dick but why?

you can be a dick if you want, haha. the back and forth bull**** plus the "information" being spewed all over the place.

[supraghost]

i just love how this thread keeps going and people just keep repeating the same stuff over and over in different words.

[tort9320g]

should we bring into the point that a light weight flywheel on a turbo car will have less of a load on the motor therefore making higher boost levels harder to achieve by having less rotational mass

Damn, sounds like you're right on top of things. And to think, my buddies and I run these light weight flywheels with big turbos which we spin upwards of 9k. I hit full boost at 4800 and am at 9k plus in a heart beat. That's at 37 psi which I would say is a moderate boost level. If you have proof of what you say, I'm more than willing to listen as I'm always trying to learn more.

Take care...Dave

P.S. - Anyone really interested in learning the benefits of weight removal and/or rotating mass should google rotating mass. Things are explained clearly and scientifically.

[Kevin]

lol thread

[supraghost]

Damn, sounds like you're right on top of things. And to think, my buddies and I run these light weight flywheels with big turbos which we spin upwards of 9k. I hit full boost at 4800 and am at 9k plus in a heart beat. That's at 37 psi which I would say is a moderate boost level. If you have proof of what you say, I'm more than willing to listen as I'm always trying to learn more.

Take care...Dave

P.S. - Anyone really interested in learning the benefits of weight removal and/or rotating mass should google rotating mass. Things are explained clearly and scientifically.

i love dave. haha

[Foolinaround]

The turbo won't spool as quickly, but that's because there is less load on the engine due to less weight.

This is the same difference as trying to spool up the turbo in 1st gear vs. 5th gear. You can spool up to 20psi at very low rpms in 5th gear whereas it'll happen much later in 1st gear due to the engine being loaded up much more in 5th gear.

JS.

[Subie_sleeper]

I just read the whole thread. It seems to have run its course. :cyberguy:

[captainhook]

i just read the whole thread. It seems to have run its course. :cyberguy: . . . +1

[dragonfly2k3]

The turbo won't spool as quickly, but that's because there is less load on the engine due to less weight.

This is the same difference as trying to spool up the turbo in 1st gear vs. 5th gear. You can spool up to 20psi at very low rpms in 5th gear whereas it'll happen much later in 1st gear due to the engine being loaded up much more in 5th gear.

JS.


wat?.

[Kevin]

The turbo won't spool as quickly, but that's because there is less load on the engine due to less weight.

This is the same difference as trying to spool up the turbo in 1st gear vs. 5th gear. You can spool up to 20psi at very low rpms in 5th gear whereas it'll happen much later in 1st gear due to the engine being loaded up much more in 5th gear.

JS.

lol someone needs to start a new thread about this HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Forc3 F3d]

maybe he's just foolinaround :lol:

if not, you have MUCH to learn lol

[GeforceXtreme]

When I went too lighter rims/tire combo I noticed a difference in my cars acceleration and responsiveness. In total I was able to remove 52lbs off my car with my larger rims and even wider tires. My stock rims were boat anchors!

[turboman808]

lol someone needs to start a new thread about this HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah that was this big internet myth about 5 or more years ago. The car would accelerate to fast and the turbo would never reach full boost. Therefore the car would be slower. It was pretty funny to see people argue this.

"OK so oyur telling me I will accelerate to fast. In other words I will go faster, but my turbo won't reach full boost therefore I will accelerate slower?"

Answer-Yes

Seriously people would say that with a straight face even though if oyu got an IQ over 60 it doesn't make sense. But it was very entertaining.