Which Coilovers for my Teggy Sedan?

[4DR_DB7]

Hey everyone, I'm kinda new to the Honda game (is it obvious? lol). I'm starting to research a set of coilovers for my 97 GS 4-door Integra.

I'm looking for a nice drop, doesn't have to be too drastic, with track-worthy handling characteristics, without having too harsh a ride-quality. I know thats what everyone says, but seriously, I'm leaning more towards functionality on the bumpy roads I drive on, as opposed to just getting as low as possible. Adjustability would be nice, though not necessary for me-- as long as the specs are dialed in correctly for my car and my tastes.

I'm willing to spend a bit more on higher quality systems like JIC, Cusco, Apex, Tanabe if its going to make a significant difference. Otherwise, I would just stick with some basic Skunk2 or Teins.

As opposed to opinions on brands, or your experience with a coilover on a different car, I'm only looking for people w/ 1st hand experience driving an Integra on coilovers, or Tuners who have installed coilovers on Integras. No need for "I have Tein basics on my Mazda and I love them!". thanks.

[DC2.2GSR]

from my experience, omni power coils are stiff... responsive and tight, not bouncy, but ride pretty nicely. my favorite though is ground control coil overs + koni yellow shocks. IMO, a perfect ride. on my own integra i have KYB AGX shocks and H&R race springs. it sits low enough, but not too low and although i haven't felt my own car's suspension on the road yet, my friend's prelude is what made me buy the same setup as him. i loved the way his car rode. then again, that's a spring/shock setup and won't get you the adjustable height. anything higher end will be great, obviously.. but you pay for it.

for some more 'teg specific info, check out team-integra.net. avoid honda tech and the like because if the flood of idiots and wrong info. t-i.net has a lot of good solid researched info that you can page through.

[marecco]

koni yellow struts/ground control coilovers with top hats. lets you order custom spring rates, has the ability to slam, and keeps good ride quality.

[4DR_DB7]

thanks for the info guys. Honestly, since i've been around the honda game, I've heard the "Ground control + koni yellows". I don't know why, but it just seems to generic for me. Like, I can't fathom how 2 separate units that weren't designed concurrently would work better than a true set of coilovers where the spring rates are matched to the dampening/rebound of the shock. Also the fact that that combo seems to be the cheapest and most popular option for the average street-tuned honda makes me think there are better options out there.

I really had my mind set on something a bit more exotic. But hey, if the overwhelming consensus is GC+Koni, them I'm down. Just waiting for more input.

btw- but when u guys say GC "Coilovers" + Koni shocks, what do u do, swap the koni shock for the one supplied with the GC coilover? afterall, thats what a coilover is, right? A coil spring over a shock absorber. :)

[DC2.2GSR]

it's not really generic at all. in my opinion, GC + koni yellow is the right way to do a street suspension. if you're not taking the car on a road course every weekend, what's the need for something more exotic? i think buying something extremely high end is a total waste for a street car when GC + koni ride as good as they do. now, if there was no cheaper right way to do it, then sure.. go with a higher end coil. avoid "ebay blues" at all cost. but with a proven cheaper alternative to the crazy mad tyte JDM coilovers, i see no reason not to go with GC + koni.

it's the most popular combo out there because they work very well. it's been proven over and over again that it's the best combo for the money.

just a small piece of info for ya.. ground control coilovers are just the sleeves, (or springs + adjustment system) and you choose your shock to pair with them. what ground control does, unlike every other coilover sleeve company, is they match the spring rates to the car and individual shock to get the perfect ride. i.e. - GC coils designed for konis won't work with AGXs because of different mounting styles and valving.

[highmilehatch]

I've heard the "Ground control + koni yellows". I don't know why, but it just seems to generic for me.

It's actually the total opposite. Some, not all of the Japanese coilovers you hear of are all hype. It's a bandwagon thing. Not to mention there is no US support when you need to get something rebuilt. I don't think any of the Japanese dampers are nearly as good as the Koni's. If you want something that is high quality and will outlast the others - Koni/GC. If you want to be "mad jdm tyte", by all means go with a lesser quality Japanese brand with a nice sounding name.

[Biggjerryc]

and koni shocks are lifetime warranty. something goes wrong... send your shocks in with the reciept... and theyll revalve them are replace them with no questions asked.... most of the time.

[JDMTyler3326]

If you dont have a lot of money D2's are good coilovers.

[Biggjerryc]

ill second that. d2's i havent heard any complaints about

[DC2.2GSR]

a lot of people recommend D2 coilovers, but after driving a civic that had them, i can definitely say that i'll never say a positive thing about them. they were extremely stiff, bouncy, and completely unmatched for the car. driving in a straight line was scary, but turning? i thought i was going to bounce off the road. they must give some people an illusion of performance just because the car sits low and is super stiff.

they reminded me of the K Sport coilovers for S13s.

[BigWhiteTodd]

fuction form are nice

[highmilehatch]

Come by the shop and ride in a Koni/GC car and you will like it.

[4DR_DB7]

Come by the shop and ride in a Koni/GC car and you will like it.

in a teg sedan?

[DC2.2GSR]

i know you want the most accurate representation of the setup you will be using for your 'teg sedan, but really all mid nineties hondas ride about the same with each setup. i wasn't convinced about the GC/Koni just from driving my friend's EK coupe. i figured integras had to be different. nope. another friend then got a set of GC/Koni for his own integra and it felt identical.

for that matter, 92-95 civics are identical to our 94-01 integras. even the jump from 2 door to 4 door, there will be no difference.

[4DR_DB7]

i know you want the most accurate representation of the setup you will be using for your 'teg sedan, but really all mid nineties hondas ride about the same with each setup. i wasn't convinced about the GC/Koni just from driving my friend's EK coupe. i figured integras had to be different. nope. another friend then got a set of GC/Koni for his own integra and it felt identical.

for that matter, 92-95 civics are identical to our 94-01 integras. even the jump from 2 door to 4 door, there will be no difference.


nothing is identical. I'm anal. :) but seriously, even if the OE springs and shocks are exactly the same on civics and integras of the same model years (which I don't think they are) weight distrubution is slightly different, gross weight is different, track width, turning radius, ride height, etc... Your butt telling you they "feel the same" isnt exactly the kind of empirical data i'm looking for.

Nah, I'm not choosing a suspension based on what someone has on their civic. I understand what you're saying though. I guess I personally, would really need to ride in a 4door Integra with a GC/Koni setup.

I also find a common occurance in the world of tuning is that people just want you to get the same setup as them... even if it isnt the best out there. It makes them feel better about their own decision, because hey, "that guy" did it too.

[DC2.2GSR]

i agree to a point, that you sort of need to feel it for yourself on your exact model car, but for civics and integras, it's very plainly and simply the same. when you order a suspension piece for a 92-95 civic, you can look at the part number and it's identical to the part number for 94-01 integras. even OEM or aftermarket replacement parts like bushings, tie rod ends, control arms, sway bars, etc. if there was a significant difference, each company would develop a model specific suspension, but they don't. EG = DC for just about everything, suspension mainly. The Type R chassis and the EK (96-00) Civiic are the only oddballs.

in addition, the kind of differences you're talking about like turning radius, GVW, etc... those are things that even professional racers need a computer for. there's no way that you or i would be able to tell the difference between suspension on a civic set up the same way as an integra. when you're buying a shock/spring or coilover setup from $500 - $1500, you do not care about the microscopic differences between similar cars. you just hop in the car and if it feels good, you buy it. remember what car you're putting this suspension on... a DB7 Integra that is most likely going to see 90% street use. specifics like you're talking about are worthwhile to think about if you had a car that was going to see 90% to 100% competitive road course use.

just for the record, i own KYB AGX shocks and H&R Race springs, not GC/Koni... yet i'm recommending GC/Koni to you based on what i've felt other people's cars... many different 92-00 Honda models. everything i'm talking about comes from a bunch of personal experience and more importantly, a TON of advice and knowledge picked up from people way more intelligent than myself. take it for what it's worth, nothing more or less.

talk to highmilehatch and ride in one of his cars. you'll make up your mind quickly.

[ein]

I agree with this guy ^ relax in regards to the data.What are you planning on doing with the car? If you want to do some Auto Xing I'm a big fan of Progress Series 1's. Tein's on a DC2 EK or EG will behave similarly on either chassis, as will Bilsteins, Skunk's, etc. Nobody to my knowledge makes a sedan specific setup either. I chose my Progress setup because Progress is run on alot of very successful Honda Challenge cars. Hasport uses them exclusively and their DC2 sedan won the H1 division last year ( IIRC ). The data fix you require will be satiated when you get corner balanced and your adjustable control arms dialed in.

[JDM215]

tiens fo shoo

[4DR_DB7]

Update: Ok Integra gurus, I've been working on a budget and pricing out parts that I'm looking at. Here is a shortlist of parts I'm honing in on for my murdered out suspension upgrade, let me know what your thoughts are, and if any vendors can get me quotes, I'll see how they compare to what I've found so far. I'm also looking for input from folks who have run similar setups, like if you could suggest any additional accessories (sway bar, bushings, end links, etc..) that might compliment my setup, I'm all ears. Here goes:

97 5speed 4-door Integra

- Ground Control Sleeve Kit (coilover springs w/ threaded sleeve & adjustable perch) - spring rates TBD [probably use some input on this one]
matched with
- Koni Sport ("Yellows") Struts/shocks
-GC "top Hats"

- Skunk2 Pro Series Camber Kit (ie. Adjustable Upper Control Arms)
- Skunk2 Rear Lower Control Arms (or ITR LCAs)
- Skunk2 Pro Series Rear Camber kit (links) -- do I need this if I'm running LCAs

- ITR Rear sway bar
- ASR Subframe brace (just cuz it looks cool)

[DC2.2GSR]

some info for you:

you have a need for the ASR brace (or BSQ kit, i think they still make it) when using the type R sway bar, it's not just for looks. mounting the larger bar on a non-R integra can cause the bolts to rip right out of the chassis. type Rs have beefed up mounting points to allow for the much stiffer sway bar to attach and do its thing.

you can't use ITR RLCAs on your car unless you swap the entire Type R suspension. the arms are designed differently. type Rs rear struts mount in the center of the RLCA, and all other EG/DC rear struts mount around the RLCA. here's a comparison for reference (they're Function 7 arms):

Type R RLCAs (http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/catalog/f7/f7.ekdcr.rlca_d.jpg)

LS/GS/RS/GSR RLCAs (http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/catalog/f7/f7.efeg.rlca-sp_d.jpg)

the skunk2 pro camber control arms are what i was going to go with. i would recommend them. the Skunk2 RLCAs, not so much. there are TONS of people who use them with no issues, but i've read many accounts of shredded bushings after as little as 15,000 mi. that's not a part that i'm willing to replace every so often. to me, RLCAs are a 'do it once and never again' item. i chose the Function 7 RLCAs and i could not have been happier with the quality. seriously, they made the Skunk2s look and feel like toys. the Function 7 arms have a spherical bushing design that is supposedly far superior to all the other bushings used in the cheaper aftermarket arms. one benefit is that they don't shred up like the Skunk2 or BLOX arms. i dunno, research them and think about going with F7s instead of the S2s.

all the rest of your choices seem pretty straight forward and standard for a quality street suspension setup. you'll have a nice ride for sure. just make sure to get sticky tires too! all the added stiffness with crappy tires can be real dangerous.

[vi3tsi06]

are you tracking this car?

[DaveSTi]

If you're worried about riding on bumpy roads, going after a Japanese coilover system is the exactly opposite approach to what you want. The JDM offerings rely on using high levels of rebound stiffness for that tight handling feeling, but at the expense of grip on bumpy surfaces and ride comfort. Since ride comfort is so subjective, I'm sure there will be a bunch of people saying that the system they bought rides like a Serta, but its always a better bet to rely on shock dyno data. For that reason, I would suggest you go with something European such as Ohlins, Bilstein, AST, or KW. Koni is a good shock too, but they aren't always valved from the factory consistently within a set. Once revalved, they can be set to any ride characteristic that you like. Bilsteins can also be revalved to be an amazing shock too. The Koni GC idea is probably your best bet on a budget and with the properly matched spring rates would be exactly what you're looking for.

[4DR_DB7]

- Not building it for track use, I may once in a blue moon take it to an auto-x or time-attack, never will drag it. probably drift it alot though.. :)

thanks Davesti, I have realized that JDM suspension parts are designed mainly for flat japanese hiways, not SE PA roads. I think I'm solid on the Koni/GC w/ supporting mods setup, but I've been hearing a lot about KW lately, i'm not really familiar with them. All i know is that they are german, and I know they do stuff for audis/vws, anyone ever use their coilovers on a Teggy?