clutch replacement q's.

[twastheglow]

Unfortunately, it seems I'm going to need my clutch replaced in my e36. It's been acting up and slipping a bit over the last couple days and it's gotten a little worse. It also sucks because I don't have the time to even consider tackling this job with a couple friends.

My question(s) is, how many hours of labor/ how much money is generally required to replace it? I'm trying to gauge how much it's going to cost me (not including parts). Also, is there anything else I should consider replacing while that's being changed?

[twastheglow]

You know, I know it's going to cost me a pretty penny, but all I can do is laugh. hahahahahaahahahaha **** the police!

[DPancoast]

its a shame with stuff like this because I only really know the tips and tricks for MR2s.... but either way

- I'd suggest using an OEM throw out bearing. You can get an aftermarket clutch or OEM equivalent to the stock one if you want to save money, but I've always heard not to skimp on the T/O bearing.
- Look into replacing any gaskets that may be there in taking your trans out. Axle seals, Rear main, etc)... I don't really know BMWs so I have no idea what the job involves.
- Depending on the mileage of your car, maybe look into flushing your clutch fluid to put some new in. Also, check the status of any clutch system components... slaves, master cylinders etc and make sure they are in working order!
- While the trans is out you should also throw some new gear oil in!

Labor wise who knows haha, I'm sure a couple different vendors on here will chime in. Clutch jobs are usually pretty involved according to any shop manual. But I'm sure the BMW guys have it down to a science and could tell you different. I used to have access to Alldata Pro but I don't anymore.

[twastheglow]

its a shame with stuff like this because I only really know the tips and tricks for MR2s.... but either way

- I'd suggest using an OEM throw out bearing. You can get an aftermarket clutch or OEM equivalent to the stock one if you want to save money, but I've always heard not to skimp on the T/O bearing.
- Look into replacing any gaskets that may be there in taking your trans out. Axle seals, Rear main, etc)... I don't really know BMWs so I have no idea what the job involves.
- Depending on the mileage of your car, maybe look into flushing your clutch fluid to put some new in. Also, check the status of any clutch system components... slaves, master cylinders etc and make sure they are in working order!
- While the trans is out you should also throw some new gear oil in!

Labor wise who knows haha, I'm sure a couple different vendors on here will chime in. Clutch jobs are usually pretty involved according to any shop manual. But I'm sure the BMW guys have it down to a science and could tell you different. I used to have access to Alldata Pro but I don't anymore.

I've priced a oem clutch kit (clutch disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing, alignment tool) from Turner Motorsports for $240. As far as replacing anything else, I guess I will wait to hear from some BMW peeps. I was considering also buying a new slave cylinder but I didn't know if it would be worth it. And as far as gear oil...good call! I've been meaning to flush it and fill with Redline.

[DPancoast]

Yeah when my new MR2 was running it had Redline MT-90 in it and I thought it was awesome compared to anything I've ever driven before. Very smooth. The slave cylinder might be a good call, you just have to see how worn your current one is. It would probably improve clutch feel and maybe response as well, I'm not sure. $240 isn't bad at all man. It probably won't get much cheaper without sacrificing quality. I remember I did a Perfection clutch kit in my red MR2 and it was $180, but the T/O bearing was making noise in no time. Hence when I quickly learned to use OEM haha.

[Shoolig]

A clutch is just like changing brakes, except easier but takes longer.

It's a RWD drive car so it's going to take less than an afternoon, possibly an entire Saturday if it's your first time.

-Jack up the car.
- Remove heat shields and exhaust (downpipe)
- Disconnect the driveshaft/ guibo (w/e it is)
- Remove slave cylinder, throw off to the side, don't disconnect the lines.
- Remove starter
- Disconnect linkage
-Remove transmission mount
- Remove bell housing bolts, get a nice long extension to reach the top ones.
- Slide the trans backward just enough to reach the pressure plate.
- Remove presssure plate and flywheel.
- Go get flyhweel cut, replaced rear main seal and pilot bearing.
- Slide transmission back forward and "stab" it.
- Bolt everything back up.

Easy peasy. Did this on my twin turbo Z and my old E30 in literally a few hours while on jackstands (which makes it harder than a lift).

[05 mazda6s]

You have the SMG or 6-speed manual?

[Shoolig]

You have the SMG or 6-speed manual?

It's a 5 speed. It's a 1993 3-series, not an E46.

[twastheglow]

It's a 5 speed. It's a 1993 3-series, not an E46.

Correct, although the drive train is from a '96 328i (not that that matters).

[twastheglow]

A clutch is just like changing brakes, except easier but takes longer.

It's a RWD drive car so it's going to take less than an afternoon, possibly an entire Saturday if it's your first time.

-Jack up the car.
- Remove heat shields and exhaust (downpipe)
- Disconnect the driveshaft/ guibo (w/e it is)
- Remove slave cylinder, throw off to the side, don't disconnect the lines.
- Remove starter
- Disconnect linkage
-Remove transmission mount
- Remove bell housing bolts, get a nice long extension to reach the top ones.
- Slide the trans backward just enough to reach the pressure plate.
- Remove presssure plate and flywheel.
- Go get flyhweel cut, replaced rear main seal and pilot bearing.
- Slide transmission back forward and "stab" it.
- Bolt everything back up.

Easy peasy. Did this on my twin turbo Z and my old E30 in literally a few hours while on jackstands (which makes it harder than a lift).

What are you saying, you'll do it for me in your driveway if I pay you? :wink:

[russiankid]

You are going to end up spending roughly $500 on parts. You'll need a clutch, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, new slave cylinder, shifter bushings, rear output shaft seal and front input shaft seal(not sure if you can replace it, may not need it). You can also replace the center support bearing on the driveshaft. If you're going to get in there to do the clutch, do it right.

Oh and do the rear main seal on the engine. You do not have to remove the starter to get the trans off. You will need to loosen it though. Its a bitch and a half to get the starter out on the M50, S50, S52, or M52.

[twastheglow]

You are going to end up spending roughly $500 on parts. You'll need a clutch, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, new slave cylinder, shifter bushings, rear output shaft seal and front input shaft seal(not sure if you can replace it, may not need it). You can also replace the center support bearing on the driveshaft. If you're going to get in there to do the clutch, do it right.

Oh and do the rear main seal on the engine. You do not have to remove the starter to get the trans off. You will need to loosen it though. Its a bitch and a half to get the starter out on the M50, S50, S52, or M52.

I'm going to pick up a new guibo too.

[twastheglow]

Ugh! Yep...right around $500 in parts shipped. I'm not looking forward to hearing the labor charge!

[Xuracing]

Labor depending on the shop will range from 400-600, Thats if its non bmw specific shop, bmw specific will cost more

You could probably tackle the job in under 3 hours if you have the right tools and parts.

The only thing i would recommend while doing it is before putting the new clutch while the trans is still out is, Using 100 grit sand paper and sand down the flywheel a little, this will help prevent premature clutch failure... or at least make it have less of a chance.

an oem clutch should run you no more then 250 plus shipping. and if you can get labor for 400ish that would be great

I was able to pull my mkiv supra v160 in about 4 hours and have it back in, And that thing was a pain, you had inspection windows to unbolt the pressure plate, The e36 the glory is its a push type clutch (pressure plate)so after you unbolt everything everything slides off, and then you can pop the clutch off with ease.

a set of pneumatic tools will shorten your time under the car greatly.

[russiankid]

I'm going to pick up a new guibo too.
Good call.
Ugh! Yep...right around $500 in parts shipped. I'm not looking forward to hearing the labor charge!

Can you tell I've been wanting a 5-speed for quite some time?:-p

[twastheglow]

Labor depending on the shop will range from 400-600, Thats if its non bmw specific shop, bmw specific will cost more

You could probably tackle the job in under 3 hours if you have the right tools and parts.

The only thing i would recommend while doing it is before putting the new clutch while the trans is still out is, Using 100 grit sand paper and sand down the flywheel a little, this will help prevent premature clutch failure... or at least make it have less of a chance.

an oem clutch should run you no more then 250 plus shipping. and if you can get labor for 400ish that would be great

I was able to pull my mkiv supra v160 in about 4 hours and have it back in, And that thing was a pain, you had inspection windows to unbolt the pressure plate, The e36 the glory is its a push type clutch (pressure plate)so after you unbolt everything everything slides off, and then you can pop the clutch off with ease.

a set of pneumatic tools will shorten your time under the car greatly.


I truely wish I had the time to spend trying to tackle this myself but I know I won't for months. :o I did find the clutch kit for $240 from Turner. But I may as well replace some other things while I'm doing it...guibo, csb, slave cylinder, ss clutch line, tranny mounts, gear oil...that's where the rough $500 comes from.

I'm going to call around for labor prices on Monday. *nervous*

[twastheglow]

****'s weird though, I drove to the drug store a mile or two away and the car acted fine. Am I jumping the gun with this clutch **** or does it start out super intermitten 1st?

[russiankid]

I honestly don't see a point in getting an SS line. A lot of people who have gotten them before only noticed slight increase in pedal resistance. May as well do transmission mounts too. Maybe I am going overboard with this stuff, but thats how I usually do it. If I am in there, might as well do it.

[russiankid]

****'s weird though, I drove to the drug store a mile or two away and the car acted fine. Am I jumping the gun with this clutch **** or does it start out super intermitten 1st?

Before you jump into this, make sure the master cylinder isn't leaking. If its not, pull the salve cylinder out and make sure its not leaking. If its leaking, I wouldn't be surprised if you have brake fluid on your clutch, which kills it.

[twastheglow]

Before you jump into this, make sure the master cylinder isn't leaking. If its not, pull the salve cylinder out and make sure its not leaking. If its leaking, I wouldn't be surprised if you have brake fluid on your clutch, which kills it.

I'll check it tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the MC isn't leaking, but I'll check it anyway. I've never checked the SC before. Would a leaky SC cause this problem? If it is leaking and getting on the clutch causing the slipping, will my clutch be fine if I fix the leak or did the brake fluid **** it up for good?

[russiankid]

Once it touches the disc, it will cause it slip and it will just **** up over time. If you change the SC, you'll still have the fluid on the clutch. It may last for some time, but not as long as it would originally.

[twastheglow]

Once it touches the disc, it will cause it slip and it will just **** up over time. If you change the SC, you'll still have the fluid on the clutch. It may last for some time, but not as long as it would originally.

Well **** me! If that's the case I may as well change everything. That sucks! I was hoping it would "wear off" and grip like normal again after.

[russiankid]

It will probably grip like normal after the fluid is burned off. However, who knows how long it will take the fluid to burn off. See if its leaking and go from there.

[twastheglow]

It will probably grip like normal after the fluid is burned off. However, who knows how long it will take the fluid to burn off. See if its leaking and go from there.

Alright. I'll check it tomorrow and report back. So I should just unbolt it and pull it out or will I see any leak just by looking at it?

[russiankid]

I think its only a bolt or two to get it out. No reason to not pull it out completely and inspect it.


But to answer the question, I don't think you'll see anything on the outside, but you may.

[Xuracing]

Okay, If there is fluid on the disk. You can just say **** it because you need to drop the trans. I t doesnt matter if the fluid burns off or not, You will have uneven wear and it still will slip

I am sure you probably don't have a leaky MC, because the damn MC on bmws are no where near the bell housing of the trans. Its above the clutch petal. inside the car.

Its a pain to replace i did mine on my e30.

Now 2nd if you had a leaky seal on a mc or a slave cylinder, Your clutch wouldn't slip. The engagement point would be much sooner, and you would have to press the clutch down further for it to disengage.

Your clutch will only slip in higher gears under load. If you really want to see if its your clutch. Lodge it in 5th gear going like 30mph and floor it, If the rpms Shoot up. You need a new clutch. If it holds fine its something else. But I think its most likely the clutch...

and guibos are nice to be replaced but not necessary. Same thing with Master and Slave cylinders. The reason i say this is.

Even with the trans in the car they are very accessible.... Its not really like you "have to do a clutch job" to change them. And SS lines are worthless. They dont allow you to see wear on the lines, and on top of that, there is NEGLIGIBLE increase in petal pressure. You are just wasting your time and money..

Something i would recommend changing while the trans is out, Shifter bushings, usually they go bad on older cars, so there is a lot of side to side play when in gear in the shifter. Also throw in a nice short shifter while you are at it. It will make your life 200%
easier

Enjoy man let me know what happens, because am not here as often as i should be

[Xuracing]

I also forgot to mention, there are absolutely no inspection vents, or any windows on the bell housing of the transmission,
for fluid to get in there from the MC is near impossible

For the slave to leak onto your your disk the whole pressure plate and bottom of the trans bell housing would have to be soaked in fluid.

The slave is very far back and the bell housing is pretty deep. In the case your slave has been leaking most likely it would NOT hold any pressure at all, your petal would hit the ground and just stay there. (happened to me) Like i said The chances of fluid actually on your clutch disk is a million to none.

The whole reservoir would have to be emptied 4 times, and that would also kill your brakes from time to time.

[Shoolig]

What are you saying, you'll do it for me in your driveway if I pay you? :wink:

It's tempting. I'm about 2 hours from you. How rusty the car is has a lot to do with how quickly it will go.

[Xuracing]

It's tempting. I'm about 2 hours from you. How rusty the car is has a lot to do with how quickly it will go.

How strong your impact gun is also is a very good factor ;)

[russiankid]

Okay, If there is fluid on the disk. You can just say **** it because you need to drop the trans. I t doesnt matter if the fluid burns off or not, You will have uneven wear and it still will slip

I am sure you probably don't have a leaky MC, because the damn MC on bmws are no where near the bell housing of the trans. Its above the clutch petal. inside the car.

Its a pain to replace i did mine on my e30.

Now 2nd if you had a leaky seal on a mc or a slave cylinder, Your clutch wouldn't slip. The engagement point would be much sooner, and you would have to press the clutch down further for it to disengage.

Your clutch will only slip in higher gears under load. If you really want to see if its your clutch. Lodge it in 5th gear going like 30mph and floor it, If the rpms Shoot up. You need a new clutch. If it holds fine its something else. But I think its most likely the clutch...

and guibos are nice to be replaced but not necessary. Same thing with Master and Slave cylinders. The reason i say this is.

Even with the trans in the car they are very accessible.... Its not really like you "have to do a clutch job" to change them. And SS lines are worthless. They dont allow you to see wear on the lines, and on top of that, there is NEGLIGIBLE increase in petal pressure. You are just wasting your time and money..

Something i would recommend changing while the trans is out, Shifter bushings, usually they go bad on older cars, so there is a lot of side to side play when in gear in the shifter. Also throw in a nice short shifter while you are at it. It will make your life 200%
easier

Enjoy man let me know what happens, because am not here as often as i should be

Um...if the slave cylinder is leaking fluid, it can get onto the clutch disk.

I also forgot to mention, there are absolutely no inspection vents, or any windows on the bell housing of the transmission,
for fluid to get in there from the MC is near impossible

For the slave to leak onto your your disk the whole pressure plate and bottom of the trans bell housing would have to be soaked in fluid.

The slave is very far back and the bell housing is pretty deep. In the case your slave has been leaking most likely it would NOT hold any pressure at all, your petal would hit the ground and just stay there. (happened to me) Like i said The chances of fluid actually on your clutch disk is a million to none.

The whole reservoir would have to be emptied 4 times, and that would also kill your brakes from time to time.


I don't know if the E36 has the same setup as the E34. But if it does, then he wouldn't lose his brakes if the fluid ran out. The reservoir is split into two parts. This way, if the rear lines burst, you still have the other side of the reservoir for the front brakes, or visa versa. The MC uses the rear portion of the reservoir.

[twastheglow]

Well, I ordered everything I needed from Pelican Parts last night. As I've mentioned, there is literally no time for me to be working on my car (for this kind of job anyway). All my free time is "booked" until mid summer. So unless I don't want to drive me car for months on end, I'm going to have to suck it up and spend the money for someone else to do it. :( I have an appointment on the 13th to take it in and have it all installed. I picked up all the previous parts mentioned along with a new rear main seal, drive shaft nuts, flywheel bolts, clip and fork.

The only thing that concerns me is that I can't afford a new flywheel since those bitches are $600+. And from what I've read, the dual mass flywheel my car has isn't resurfaceable. So I'm just hoping the flywheel I have now isn't out of spec. Since the car is just starting to show signs of a failing clutch (and I've been driving minimally), I don't think there will be any hotspots etc.

[russiankid]

You should be fine. The flywheels can be resurfaced, but its very hard because of their design. Its hard to keep them stationary to get a good grind.

[twastheglow]

You should be fine. The flywheels can be resurfaced, but its very hard because of their design. Its hard to keep them stationary to get a good grind.

Well, I guess we'll see what kind of condition it's in.

I'm hoping things go as smooth as possible...they quoted me $600 and up to do the job, depending on what issues they run into.

[russiankid]

Whose doing the job? And its not really recommended to resurface them anyways.

[twastheglow]

Whose doing the job? And its not really recommended to resurface them anyways.

There's an excellent local garage I've been working with. They're actually a couple blocks from my house. They work on the average person's car as well as a local Supra, some Evos, FD's etc. They seem to really know what's going on.

[russiankid]

Well hopefully it all works out well.