My A4 wont start... it has spark and fuel. No CELs. What else to check?

[TROLL]

Ok so my 2000 Audi A4 1.8T was fine... I drove it, parked it, turned it off. Next day it wont start. Its been a few days now and I'm slowly trying to figure out whats up with it.

No real issues at all before except for one week prior to this problem the gas was very low and it started just a little harder once, but then ran fine, and I got gas and it continued to run fine so I wasn't worried.

-I checked for CELs and there are no new codes (only one old emissions code)
-I have checked all of the fuses which are fine.
-I can hear the fuel pump prime.
-I verified that each cylinder is getting fuel by cranking the engine then pulling the plugs to find them wet and smelling of unburnt gasoline.
-I verified that there is spark by pulling the coils/plugs and cranking the motor to see the plugs spark

The spark plugs were black, but not sludgy. I realized that I honestly don't know how old they are. I think they may have slipped through the cracks on my last maintenance (performed by a dealer tech). I'm not positive.

I bought the car at 90k miles and had all major maintenance done. It now has about 110k miles on it and has never really given me any issues previously.

I bought new iridium plugs which I am going to put in tomorrow and try to start the car again, I'm hoping that maybe the plugs were just completely shot (even though they spark?). If this doesn't fix the problem I honestly don't know what the next step is.

Does anyone have any ideas? Any 1.8T experts on here? Anyone with a VAG-COM who might have some ideas on what to check with it?

Thanks...
Bryan

[Elliott18t]

1.8t Troubleshooting Guide:

Symptom: Items to Check
Rough Running At Idle: MAF, Ignition Coil, Spark Plug, VAC Leak, O2 Sensor, TB, CTS
Missfires under Boost Flashing CEL: Ignition Coils, Spark Plugs
Running Rich: Boost Leak, MAF, O2 Sensor, Coolant Temp Sensor
Running Lean: VAC Leak, MAF, O2 Sensor, Fuel Filter
Low Boost: Limp Mode, MBC, BOV, DV, Boost Leak, N75,
High Boost: MBC Setting, N75, Spark Plugs, Ignition Coils
Cold Start Problems: MAF, Spark Plugs, Fuel Pump Relay, CTS
Poor Gas Mileage: MAF, CTS, O2 Sensor, AIT Sensor
Cat Efficiency Below Threshold: Down pipe, CAT, Rear O2, RACE FUEL
No Start: Battery - ECU, Fuel Pump Relay, Ground
Start For 1 Second Stall: Immobilizer
Overheating: Waterpump, Thermostat, Head Gasket
oil in coolant: Oil Cooler, head Gasket, Water Wetter
Dies While Driving: Timing belt, Boost Leak, MISC
Shorts To ground CEL: Fuel Pump Relay, Bad Grounds
Oil in your IC/IC piping: Check your PCV system

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2666114

[TROLL]

I forgot to add that the car cranks but it never actually turns over. Seems like it cranks pretty strong even when I'm going for 5-10 seconds. The engine just wont start...

Fuel pump stuff is all ruled out since the engine is getting fuel, correct?
Battery is ruled out because the car cranks fine, correct?
ECU is a possibility, eek. Also Cam and Crank Position sensors, although I'm not sure if there's a way to test or if they would keep the engine from starting at all.

[twistedlanes]

what happens when you step on the gas pedal?

[TROLL]

I dont understand what you're asking?

Anyone else have some input/experience here? Going to work on the car now but I'd love some fresh ideas...

[Roadkilled75]

I just dealt with a problem in my girlfriend's camry in which it had visible spark in the spark tester but not strong enough to fire. Go figure. Checked resistances at the primary pickup coil in the distributor and they were out of spec - new distributor fixed the problem.

Not that an A4 is similar to a camry - but it's an idea worth checking before spending three days pulling your hair out on the assumption that it has good spark. I sure didn't enjoy it :mrgreen:

[TROLL]

Thanks for the heads up... just opened the 'new' plugs I bought to find out that there were some old ass used plugs inside the boxes. Mother****er! Going to exchange them now and I'll try with just the plugs to start...

Anyone have a Vag-Com? Or other ideas?

[Elliott18t]

does anything happen when you try to turn it over? any clicking?

[Elliott18t]

an answer from the 1.8t tech forum...

...It sounds like plugs to me... fuel in the Cyl and no explosion.... Either Plugs, ignition control module or all four coils....

^^ also has a 2000 a4

[Jeffros Spec V]

This happened to me twice.

Once it was fuel relay was loose (you ruled that out)
Second time I have a loose main harness and the car wouldn't fire. I had spark, I have fuel and it cranked hard.

[Elliott18t]

another answer from the forum:

The fuel pump is still something to consider. A friend's '01 TT 225 had very similar symptoms and it turned out that the fuel pump was failing.
He did not get a code for the fuel pump and he could also smell gas after trying to start the car. But after a new fuel pump was installed the car ran perfectly.

The odd thing was though, when we disconnected the CTS, it would run...though very rough. We still have not figured that one out.

[AutoSpeed]

Fuel pump can still be the problem, though it is still pumping fuel it may not be enough to start the car, i have seen it before, especially if you ran the tank really low. Hard to say since it isnt throwing any codes. What are the old codes you have in there?

[TROLL]

The only code is P0411... Secondary Air Injection. Its been there for about a year without a problem.

I'll respond a little more fully in an hour or so but just wanted to post that brand new plugs did not fix the problem.

I hear something new in the engine bay when I turn the key to 'on' (but not start the car)... a clicking (almost like electrical spark sound) near the ABS unit near the rear of the drivers side engine bay. I haven't heard this before. I see no sparks, smoke, or anything else... just hear the sound.
When I do try to start the car after a few seconds a high pitched noise starts like a whistle kind of sound... this is also new.
I dont think I messed with anything under the hood except for the plugs/coils so I'm not sure WTF thats all about but I have to think it over.

Anyway I have to run but I'll be back at a computer a little later tonight where I'll respond more fully to everyone. Thanks!

[*~Heather~*]

Euro cars don't like you :-p

[LilRedVDub]

I can tell you exactley what it is! I called you and you didn't answer your phone. It is the ignitoin module! 110%!!!!!!!

[TROLL]

Any way to test it to know if this is the problem? How much does a new one cost? I didnt see a missed call and I dont have your number but I'll PM you now... thanks :)

[ho1ywars]

if you have fuel, and you have spark, it has to be timing. cam/crank sensor.. ignition mod, ECU

[Roadkilled75]

Try starting it on ether yet? If it starts, fuel. if it doesn't, spark. If it blows up, run.

[redline]

I know what it is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-tCIRJH9p0

[TROLL]

I dont know how much fuel and how much spark I have... seems this could also be a potential issue.
Hopefully someone is stopping by tonight with a vag-com and he has a lot more experience with these cars than I do... crossing my fingers that we uncover the problem.

[Vr-4-Life]

You would think that the ECU would throw a CEL for a bad sensor though...

[LilRedVDub]

I told you 110% what it was so I hope you take my advice. A vag-com won't tell you that. If you still wanna use my vag-com you mos def can tho. So I'm hoping from our conversation yesterday Bryan you take my advise. I hate to see you rip your hair out over something like that:wink:

[TROLL]

I've heard Ignition Control Module as well as Ignition Switch... I've looked into both but haven't been able to come to much of a conclusion on either. Someone is planning to come over on Mon. to take a look as he's much more familliar with the car than I am.
I definitely appreciate the concern and that's the first thing I'll bring up to him... I just honestly dont want to dig into it solo since I'm just not familliar with the platform.

[Drftpretty]

Cps, tps?

Did you try to run a OBDII scanner on it? That will at least point you in the right direction if you dont have access to a VAG Scan

[TROLL]

Yeah... I think I said in the first post there were not CELs when I scanned it. It could be a variety of sensors but why cant I find any diagnostics on how to test them (as opposed to just throwing new parts at it blindly).

[Drftpretty]

Sorry, should have stated. My Jeep sometimes only throws codes when the scanner is connected and the key is being cranked. Thats how I diagnosed my faulty CPS. Maybe the B5 is the same way? Its worth a shot.

[TROLL]

Hmm never heard that but its possible.
This car is beat. Reliable daily drivers for the lose.

[pinacup7]

Possibly crank or cam posotion sensor? I dont know **** about VW's but without info from the sensors its not gonna start, and they also don't give CEL's

[TROLL]

Yes I need a good scanner or vag com to read RPMs when I'm cranking to see if the crank sensor is sending any info at all... thats one thing I'm working on.

[FazdaGt]

it could be the icm...costs like $100ish but usually the car runs just not well when that is the problem. the best way to verify this is to find a friend with a 1.8t and swap icm's. if your car runs... bingo, that's the problem.

otherwise the TPS is a common 1.8t problem as well, this could cause a no start issue...but if you try like hell and pump the gas a lot the car could start and run like crap.

and i'm not a vw/audi guy haha.... i use them as "good, reliable"daily driver's as well :-p

i've got a good scanner not vag, but good. if your guy can't figure it out tomorrow i can bring it down sometime this week.

i may go to west chester to look at a 240 tomorrow if the guy gets back to me. is that in your area at all? if so i'll bring the scanner along and make a side trip if need be.

[Drftpretty]

Troll, you can just pull the sensors and test resistance, no real need to check for Rpms. Im sure there is a write up somewhere. www.vwvortex.com, www.audizine.com.

Or do yourself a favor and follow this link if you dont have a FSM yet. Merry Christmas.

http://manualspace.com/audi-a4-b5-1995-2000-workshop-manual.htm

[tdmopar59]

any updates on the mystery?? i'm guessing icm...

[TROLL]

oh sorry i missed some responses here...

yeah well i took off the airbox lid to check the filter, then i put everything back together and voila, car started (on the 2nd try).

all the sensors read fine, car sounded fine. took it for a drive, all is good. been driving it the past week, all is still good.

my guess is there was a sensor (airbox related or elsewhere in the engine bay since i did have a bit of it apart) that wasnt clipped in properly or something, and the act of me taking things apart and putting them back together fixed it.
not sure and i wish i had a definite answer, but the cars been running strong for a while now so i'm pretty confident that the issue has been resolved.

thanks for all the responses though from everyone...

[tdmopar59]

very sick... so why isnt the a4 advertised in the My ride?? gotta rep us euro car guys man!!! lol chip it and make it fun :-D

[teh DIRT]

oh sorry i missed some responses here...

yeah well i took off the airbox lid to check the filter, then i put everything back together and voila, car started (on the 2nd try).

all the sensors read fine, car sounded fine. took it for a drive, all is good. been driving it the past week, all is still good.

my guess is there was a sensor (airbox related or elsewhere in the engine bay since i did have a bit of it apart) that wasnt clipped in properly or something, and the act of me taking things apart and putting them back together fixed it.
not sure and i wish i had a definite answer, but the cars been running strong for a while now so i'm pretty confident that the issue has been resolved.

thanks for all the responses though from everyone...

you forgot to add the part where i told the car to fix itself and it did.

[TROLL]

ha only so much room in that spot and although the audi is a pretty sweet dd, it just didnt make the cut. its stock as balls and its going to stay that way... no interest in modding, no real point for me.

[tdmopar59]

ha only so much room in that spot and although the audi is a pretty sweet dd, it just didnt make the cut. its stock as balls and its going to stay that way... no interest in modding, no real point for me.

:( aw man.... lol

[Elliott18t]

:( aw man.... lol

agreed :(

[BlackVr96]

it was probably a loose maf or something stupid like that. vw/audi might be one of the finickiest cars i've worked on before... is it a 225 1.8 or the crappy 180?

[tdmopar59]

it was probably a loose maf or something stupid like that. vw/audi might be one of the finickiest cars i've worked on before... is it a 225 1.8 or the crappy 180?

all audis are not the same 1.8t's as the tt.... that particular year a4 is 150hp for example... 01-05 is 170... which i guess makes it crappy....

[gtsiawd96]

oh sorry i missed some responses here...

yeah well i took off the airbox lid to check the filter, then i put everything back together and voila, car started (on the 2nd try).

all the sensors read fine, car sounded fine. took it for a drive, all is good. been driving it the past week, all is still good.

my guess is there was a sensor (airbox related or elsewhere in the engine bay since i did have a bit of it apart) that wasnt clipped in properly or something, and the act of me taking things apart and putting them back together fixed it.
not sure and i wish i had a definite answer, but the cars been running strong for a while now so i'm pretty confident that the issue has been resolved.

thanks for all the responses though from everyone...

I am not exactly sure when they changed the design. It might be late 99-00. The older style coils that bolt down onto the valve cover (not the push in style). The ignition control module sits on top of the air-box lid. Little sensor with two plugs in it. If the push-in style coil pack is used than the igntion control module is built in individually too each coil.

If the car acts up again, I would first check fuel, just pop off the fuel line connection at the rail put the hose into a bottle, and crank the car. If you get fuel in the bottle you over come alot issues pretty quickly

Common problems are fuel pump relay behind dash panel first relay on the left hand side, ECU power relay(sits inside the ECM box.) The engine speed sensor ( grey connector below the coolant bottle, the sensor sits on the drivers side of the engine block,) known for going bad and leaving people stranded. Coolant temp sensor (reading low like -20 degrees but not setting off the CEL)and the throttle body losing adaptation and not starting. (since adapting the throttle is also adapting the idle.) The older throttle bodies get lazy and forgetful.

Hope that helps Bryan.

[TROLL]

thanks, you certainly sound like you know your stuff. i really appreciate you taking the time to try and help out.
hopefully it'll be smooth sailing from now on... she's been running strong for a while now :)