GM could fail by the end of the month!

[The Captain]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoaDhd_S14EA&refer=home

GM is so close to the edge, they could go bankrupt by the end of the month if they don't get their "bailout" soon.

Thoughts?

[Elliott18t]

what them talk about it...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24596546

[The Captain]

What I love is that when the CEOs of the Big 3 came to Washington a few days ago, they came in their private jets AND had no plan to even talk about...They need to start realizing that priorities HAVE to start being looked at.

[Elliott18t]

they where questioned that since they drove there themselves (they actually drove w/ another to switch places) or so they say, that if they would actually drive back. they all said yes.

[Eclipse GSX 61]

Time for them to sell those Z06's for like $10,000 because I really want one lol.

[Elliott18t]

Time for them to sell those Z06's for like $10,000 because I really want one lol.

i'd be pissed :mad:

[sisforsurfing]

GM sold all of its jet fleet and all Big 3 CEO's are taking a $1 salary next year.
A little late, yeah, but whatever. I just want them to all survive so Ford can come out with the EcoBoost TT V6.

[Elliott18t]

ford is the most likely to survive. chrysler wants a loan to stay afloat to be bought out (LOL). they mentioned GM chrysler merger which is probably best idea

[zuki19]

I think they already merged didnt they?

[The Captain]

nahh.

[garrettej8]

not that I want GM to go down the drain by any means, but it would be pretty cool if they liquidated their entire fleet. I wouldn't mind a z06 for $10k or so

[zuki19]

than expect young careless driving kids buying it or getting it for there bday or something and wrecking them like crazy... car wouldnt be selling because of insurance

[SvicksTc]

I was watching Larry King with Micheal Moore the other day and this was the topic....A couple days later GM announced it would need 12 billion dollars in goverement funds to stay running


Funny when these CEO's flew for the meeting in washignton, all of them flew their own private jets there, each one!!!!

Thats like saying give us the money for the bailout here is a nice load on your face Capital Hill!!

[Eclipse GSX 61]

I know I'd for sure jump on a Z06 if they became available for that cheap.

[CleanNeon98]

We talked about this at work for a bit today. Of GM, Ford, and Chrysler, Chrysler will most likely be the one to fail because it is the weakest company to begin with...apparently they don't even handle their own leasing.

[DaveSTi]

oops.

[blewby u]

well, now i'm keeping my fingers crossed for liquidating fleets

[ndubz]

Damn, I saw this all comming 2 years ago, WHY DIDNT I BUY ANY HEDGE FUNDS on these companies, Id be buying an effing GTR right now. DAMN.
As for the situation, i say let them fail. Their business practices were soooo stupid, especially Ford and im pissed that they may be the only one left. It will be one helluva weird situation, and it will be interesting to see what models will live and what models will die if there is a merger. Id prolly say Bye bye Viper, and hello Callenger SRT 10, the vette will stay in tact and we'll see what happens to the camaro. The charger platform will prolly stay too. as far as the regular cars go, I dont rly give a sh*t.

[CleanNeon98]

Ford is ford..they make the F150 which has always sold well and have a few other trademark models. GM as a whole will not be allowed to fail because it will greatly reduce competition on the market, and other companies will be allowed to raise their prices and people will have to pay them because the GM alternative won't be around. Chrysler is Dodge, and there really is no need for both to be around considering they make pretty similar cars, and I think it will play out like it did when they got rid of the Plymouth brand.

GM however has been talking about possibly cutting the Pontiac, Cadillac, and Saturn from their line. There were talks from Ford before about getting rid of Mercury because between Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln, the cars and trucks are fairly similar, and again there is no need to have 3 companies making fairly identical cars but there were no moves made with that.

Ford has already recently sold some of it's share of Mazda (down from 34% to 13% I think) to ease the pains, they really need to get rid of Mercury, seeing as it's kind of the in-between brand of their production.

The only thing I can't figure out is what will happen to Jeep when/if Chrysler goes out.

[garrettej8]

this pretty much sums it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_7pAoxuO-Q

[Eclipse GSX 61]

well, now i'm keeping my fingers crossed for liquidating fleets

Why? You just got the Evo?

[jdm free]

theres only 2 things to do, they go bankrupt or bail them out.

if they end up going bankrupt theres pros and cons. they would be able to restructure their companies with new and better business practices and lowering wages for workers(its not the company's fault that unions are killing themselves) just to name a couple. but at the same time they still will be producing cars, remember when a company goes bankrupt they are still in business so it wont be another great depression like people think. they need fewer dealerships, a part of the reason they are in trouble is how dealerships get cars and pay for them after they are sold. so eliminating dealerships will help a lot. there's no reason for there to be dealerships of same brands to be so close to each other. but with bankruptcy people will lose jobs both directly and indirectly(other markets like audio, aftermarket parts, etc..), but the company will be able to stay alive and in the long run be better for everybody.

bailing them will be good for the time being but workers will still demand ridiculously high wages and benefits, they will continue their business practices. but the whole country will be in bigger debt.

**** DEMOCRATS ITS ALL THEIR FAULT FOR STARTING THE FIRST BAILOUT!!!!

[IdriveBad]

Importitus my ass. **** you new Malibu or whatever.

[TGilb2007]

Personally, I would not want either of the big 3 to go down, for various reasons. Ive been looking a lot at what GM in particular should do, and here would be my plan as follows for the brands

Chevy - Keep it to entry level cars/light trucks. Stuff like the Cobalt, Silverado, and Malibu should stay. Camaro can stay.
Ponatic - Make this the "fun" division. Sporty FWD, AWD, and RWD drive cars. Elimate the Cobalt SS, move it to the G5 GXP. Move the Solistace out, and use only the Sky. Keep redline variant. GTO stays, as does G8 sedan.
Buick - GTFO. Its all duplicates from other GM brands. Let it be in China though, they love it there.
Hummer - Sell it, or dump it. No need for any of these things to be on the road any more.
Saab - Sell it, or do a better job of branding the car. Prefer sell it though
Saturn - Make it the Opel for the USA. I don't care if they kill Saturn, and bring Opel here as a whole, that works for me too.
GMC - Trucks and fleet vans. That is all.
Corvette - Give it its own brand.
Caddy - Keep it as the luxury brand. Continue the variants for CTS, STS, and Esclade (face it, it sells well). Get rid of the EXT version though.

Also, random note, continue GMPP program for sporty cars as well.

Ford would be a little different:

Ford - Keep as is really. Not a whole lot to change here. Kill Mustang variants but base, GT, and maybe 1 level above the GT (something to compete with the ZR-1)
Volvo - Brand it better, European styling is damn amazing.
Mazda - The fun brand. Again, sporty type cars. RX-8, Miata, MazdaSpeed projects are all staying. Everything else, GTFO.
Lincoln - Luxury brand. Give them some sport-luxury cars if needed (Think Mustang GT, but slightly better styling, and better interior)

Continue Ford Racing program, as well as MazdaSpeed. Or, bring them together, and give it a new name.

And finally, the company that is in the biggest crap-hole, Chrysler.

Chrysler - Entry to mid-level cars. Kill 300c, move to a more luxury brand image
Dodge - Again, fun, performance orianted cars.
Jeep - Leave nameplate, but get rid of Patriot and Liberty. These are the bastard children of the company

Performance should stay under Mopar, but also start using factory accessories for lifting Jeeps, and parts for light off-road use. If they are willing to factory support a 400hp Neon, why not a 3" lifted jeep?

Other then that, I've got nothing.

[TGilb2007]

AND.... another idea that hit me for GM. Develop something to go against the STI, Evo, and MS6. I am thinking G6 sized, powered by the 2.4l Ecotec motor, turbo'd to around 275. AWD is a must. Decent styling. 6spd manual as well, and something tiptronic/dsg styled for the automatic transmissions as well.




Why don't I work for these companies??

[Oakes]

Mercury needs to go
Chevy and GM need to be more biased to specific types of cars. I.E. Chevy more car oriented, GMC more truck oriented, because they are the same damn thing.
Chrysler, don't see too much of a future for them, the 300C gave it a little bit of a bump the last few years although it's pretty much dead now.
Dodge needs to make something other than the Charger, Ram and whatever their minivan (I know they make other vehicles, but thats my point, they're basically non-existant aka not selling well)
Buick can simply just disappear and no one will notice

Basically, GM should just merge more of their models into less brands instead of having 10 different names that sell the same god damn car.

[TGilb2007]

Mercury needs to go
Chevy and GM need to be more biased to specific types of cars. I.E. Chevy more car oriented, GMC more truck oriented, because they are the same damn thing.
Chrysler, don't see too much of a future for them, the 300C gave it a little bit of a bump the last few years although it's pretty much dead now.
Dodge needs to make something other than the Charger, Ram and whatever their minivan (I know they make other vehicles, but thats my point, they're basically non-existant aka not selling well)
Buick can simply just disappear and no one will notice

Basically, GM should just merge more of their models into less brands instead of having 10 different names that sell the same god damn car.

Pretty much the same thing I said, just a little shorter.

But, Buick is selling like hell in China, so it can leave the states, but internationally, it is still needed.

[Oakes]

Why don't I work for these companies??

Well, because while having a bunch of performance oriented vehicles and eliminating the boring cookie cutter cars would be nice to us here on TST, however the rest of the market thrives on most those cars. This is because of the new fuel efficient gang bang, however more fuel efficient performance cars (contradictory right?) are needed and will sell.

[russiankid]

Maybe GM should have stopped making so many trucks and focused on making more fuel efficient vehicles to compete with foreign cars because foreign company's are doing much better.

[Oakes]

Pretty much the same thing I said, just a little shorter.

But, Buick is selling like hell in China, so it can leave the states, but internationally, it is still needed.

I know this, I was just stating for the American market.

[Elliott18t]

Personally, I would not want either of the big 3 to go down, for various reasons. Ive been looking a lot at what GM in particular should do, and here would be my plan as follows for the brands

Chevy - Keep it to entry level cars/light trucks. Stuff like the Cobalt, Silverado, and Malibu should stay. Camaro can stay.
Ponatic - Make this the "fun" division. Sporty FWD, AWD, and RWD drive cars. Elimate the Cobalt SS, move it to the G5 GXP. Move the Solistace out, and use only the Sky. Keep redline variant. GTO stays, as does G8 sedan. idk about the g8, but the g5 i was in was horrible.
Buick - GTFO. Its all duplicates from other GM brands. Let it be in China though, they love it there.get rid of
Hummer - Sell it, or dump it. No need for any of these things to be on the road any more.Dump it imo
Saab - Sell it, or do a better job of branding the car. Prefer sell it thoughsaab got worse as GM took over it imo
Saturn - Make it the Opel for the USA. I don't care if they kill Saturn, and bring Opel here as a whole, that works for me too.
GMC - Trucks and fleet vans. That is all.
Corvette - Give it its own brand. HUH?
Caddy - Keep it as the luxury brand. Continue the variants for CTS, STS, and Esclade (face it, it sells well). Get rid of the EXT version though.

Also, random note, continue GMPP program for sporty cars as well.

Ford would be a little different:

Ford - Keep as is really. Not a whole lot to change here. Kill Mustang variants but base, GT, and maybe 1 level above the GT (something to compete with the ZR-1)
Volvo - Brand it better, European styling is damn amazing.
Mazda - The fun brand. Again, sporty type cars. RX-8, Miata, MazdaSpeed projects are all staying. Everything else, GTFO.
Lincoln - Luxury brand. Give them some sport-luxury cars if needed (Think Mustang GT, but slightly better styling, and better interior)

Continue Ford Racing program, as well as MazdaSpeed. Or, bring them together, and give it a new name.

And finally, the company that is in the biggest crap-hole, Chrysler.

Chrysler - Entry to mid-level cars. Kill 300c, move to a more luxury brand imagewhy kill their only decent car? plus they should just get it over with and merge asap.
Dodge - Again, fun, performance orianted cars. if by shoving the biggest engine you can into everything you can, called performance, then yes. Also they probably get the worst mileage out of them so they need to work on that
Jeep - Leave nameplate, but get rid of Patriot and Liberty. These are the bastard children of the company again while patriot and liberty are crap.. I see these everywhere, why get rid of something that sells well. I believe the liberty had a diesel model or something at one point.. bring that back.or fix the mileage on them because my mom has one, and its horrible.

Performance should stay under Mopar, but also start using factory accessories for lifting Jeeps, and parts for light off-road use. If they are willing to factory support a 400hp Neon, why not a 3" lifted jeep?

Other then that, I've got nothing.

.....

[Oakes]

The G8 = sex, they need to give it a manual trans. That is all.

[TGilb2007]

Ok.... so there is some confusion as to why I chose what I did.

G5 Sedan - Give it some better build quality. Doesn't need to be a Rolls Royce, but something decent. I know they aren't the best cars, but its a cheap "ecobox". But, its also the same damn thing as the Cobalt. So, hence why I said make the Cobalt a cheap, ecobox, and give the G5 some balls.

Corvette as its own brand - Even people who know diddly-dick about cars, knows a Vette when they see one.

Killing the 300c, its the same thing as the Charger from Dodge, and still even with it being their best shot at a luxury car, its still a POS.
Dodge - When car enthusists think of Dodge, we think of 2 things. Trucks, and sports cars. Not mini-vans, or crappy small cars (Neon anyone?)
Jeep - I barely see any Liberties or Patriots around here. Maybe it is just where I live? And, I don't recall a desiel alternative for the Patriot, but I could, and very well might be, wrong.


Again, these are just some of my views. What do I know about running a major automotive corporation........ absolutely nothing.

[TGilb2007]

The G8 = sex, they need to give it a manual trans. That is all.

G8 GXP will be a 6spd standard, 400hp, LS3 powered car. Its a sedan loaded with win. :lol:

[Oakes]

G8 GXP will be a 6spd standard, 400hp, LS3 powered car. Its a sedan loaded with win. :lol:

*bangs head*

Need to rob bank, now. Poormans'R and I drove one when they came out, actually I drove it and he just rode in it, loved the car. GXP in White = me lightheaded.

The 300C is dead, it had a great run, but it's over. The Charger makes a great cop car.

[TGilb2007]

Well, because while having a bunch of performance oriented vehicles and eliminating the boring cookie cutter cars would be nice to us here on TST, however the rest of the market thrives on most those cars. This is because of the new fuel efficient gang bang, however more fuel efficient performance cars (contradictory right?) are needed and will sell.

Ahh.... but see, there is a reason why I stated that they should use brand imaging for sporty cars. Chevy can be the boring, cookie cutter car. Let it go head to head with Honda and Toyota for that market. There is no reason to have the Cobalt, G5, and Astra, all heading for the same segment. They are all based on the same platform, use the same motors and transmissions, and same basic body structure, minus a change in some panels. GM at that point doesn't just compete against the market, but now they must compete against themselves, which defeats the purpose.

[TGilb2007]

*bangs head*
GXP in White = me lightheaded.

The 300C is dead, it had a great run, but it's over. The Charger makes a great cop car.

I'll take mine in their burnt orange.

[TGilb2007]

And, hopefully I am explaining this right, because now that I am thinking about it, there are some car companies that are molded like this.

Volkswagen is one for instance.

VW is their version of entry level cars. Decent build quality, a limited amount of versions, and thats it.
Porsche - The "fun" division. Sporty cars (some of them borderline insane/supercar), and that is their only purpose.
Audi - The luxury brand for them. Most of the cars that are Audi's, are basically VWs that look AMAZING, and perform only a slightly bit better (until we start talking S-Line cars, different story there)
Lamborghini - The exotic group of cars. Truely not something that everyone can/will own. Serves its purpose very well too (ill take my LP-640 in dark blue w/ CF accents).

[Oakes]

Ahh.... but see, there is a reason why I stated that they should use brand imaging for sporty cars. Chevy can be the boring, cookie cutter car. Let it go head to head with Honda and Toyota for that market. There is no reason to have the Cobalt, G5, and Astra, all heading for the same segment. They are all based on the same platform, use the same motors and transmissions, and same basic body structure, minus a change in some panels. GM at that point doesn't just compete against the market, but now they must compete against themselves, which defeats the purpose.

I agree completely here. I never understood why they give people options to just go buy the same car with a different name on it, disregarding the slight bodily differences. The G5 = uglier Cobalt, why?

Ford has done one thing right with using the same models throughout their brands, the Mazda6/Lincoln Zephry/MKS = Fusion exactly. However they have tweaked the bodies so much that you can barely tell any similarities, the G5 and Cobalt just have different tailights. Lame.

[TGilb2007]

Ok, so maybe a better explaination helped then, since that is kinda what I tried to say in the long-winded post. I am also trying to watch Bourne as I do this, and the red-head chick is kinda cute, and bombs going off is a distraction.

[ndubz]

AND.... another idea that hit me for GM. Develop something to go against the STI, Evo, and MS6. I am thinking G6 sized, powered by the 2.4l Ecotec motor, turbo'd to around 275. AWD is a must. Decent styling. 6spd manual as well, and something tiptronic/dsg styled for the automatic transmissions as well.




Why don't I work for these companies??

Ya...um, Ford kinda already has sumthin like that. The Focus RS

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/09focusrs_7509a_450.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/04/officially-official-2009-ford-focus-rs/


BUT....They aren't selling it in the states because they quoute "dont think it has a market here in the states". And it is business practices like this plus a bunch of stuck up a$$ unions that are the reason for this clusterf*ck they are currently all in. It IS all their fault, so let them wither and die if they cant get themselves out of it.

If they go under, the parts of those companies that were really worthwhile will be bought up by various interests and will continue to survive (ex. Corvette, Ford trucks, and Jeep) all the stuff that isnt worthy, is better off gone anyway. Many of their regular cars are in reality a waste of materials. Think of it as like a filter. only really worthwhile stuff will make it through. and the US auto industry will be made better overall in the future by this. (over the mostley qualityless sh*t heap it is today) However, like in any revolution, there will be some casualties. so it will suck for a while, but in the long run, its a good thing, and is necessary for the industries long term survival.

[Oakes]

^ They are brining it to the States next year, read up.

[TGilb2007]

Ya...um, Ford kinda already has sumthin like that. The Focus RS

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/09focusrs_7509a_450.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/04/officially-official-2009-ford-focus-rs/


BUT....They aren't selling it in the states because they quoute "dont think it has a market here in the states". And it is business practices like this plus a bunch of stuck up a$$ unions that are the reason for this clusterf*ck they are currently all in. It IS all their fault, so let them wither and die if they cant get themselves out of it.

If they go under, the parts of those companies that were really worthwhile will be bought up by various interests and will continue to survive (ex. Corvette, Ford trucks, and Jeep) all the stuff that isnt worthy, is better off gone anyway. Many of their regular cars are in reality a waste of materials. Think of it as like a filter. only really worthwhile stuff will make it through. and the US auto industry will be made better overall in the future by this. (over the mostley qualityless sh*t heap it is today) However, like in any revolution, there will be some casualties. so it will suck for a while, but in the long run, its a good thing, and is necessary for the industries long term survival.

Uhh... I said for GM to develop :bigeek:. Ford also owns Mazda, which, is where the MS6 came from. Also, the Focus RS would then need to compete against the MS3, which is another FordMoCo product.

But yea, Ford is also absolutely stupid to think the Focus RS wouldn't do well here. Look at all the people who jumped into WRXs, MS3s, Cobalt Turbos, SRT-4s.... if Ford got the Focus into the mix, it would benefit them a TON in the US.


And I somewhat agree on the weak brands being gone, and only the stronger brands surviving. What I dont like, is the thought of these trusts running GM, Ford, Chrysler, or any other car company really. Since Chrysler was bought by a trust, their quality has improved NONE, which is something that they really need to work on.

[ndubz]

Ok my bad on that, i hadnt read up on it real recently. But either way, my point still stands. The fact that they even considered not selling it here just shows that they have absolutely no idea of the market situation. they are incompetent and it is showing now.

[Oakes]

Ok my bad on that, i hadnt read up on it real recently. But either way, my point still stands. The fact that they even considered not selling it here just shows that they have absolutely no idea of the market situation. they are incompetent and it is showing now.

Ford has come a long way. They have done the most to turn things around recently, they're current developments will boost them quite well once they hit the market. They made mistakes in the past and it's affected them, aka having the Focus and Taurus models last for 7 years completely unchanged in their design. People get bored of a model after 3 years.

However, of the big 3 at this time, Ford is doing the best by providing fresh models (Flex, Edge) and redesigning all of their vehicles in the last 4 years.

[TGilb2007]

Ford has come a long way. They have done the most to turn things around recently, they're current developments will boost them quite well once they hit the market. They made mistakes in the past and it's affected them, aka having the Focus and Taurus models last for 7 years completely unchanged in their design. People get bored of a model after 3 years.

However, of the big 3 at this time, Ford is doing the best by providing fresh models (Flex, Edge) and redesigning all of their vehicles in the last 4 years.

I don't think that GM is too far behind though. See what they have done with the Cobalt, G8, GTO, the new Camaro, and others.

Sadly, both companies really just got too far behind the market trends, and are having issues getting caught up. Now, they are in this situation, which sucks. Market leaders like Toyota and Honda are hurting too, but neither of them are facing bankruptcy any time soon. Same goes for the European brands either (VW, MB, BMW...).

I am sure though that all 3 companies will use this is a MAJOR lessen, and start to turn things around. The markets will be totally different, in say 5 years, either for the better or worse.

One concern of mine actually is this. What would happen to the aftermarket companies if one of the big 3 where to tumble? They are already having a ton of issues of their own, but with a major company like GM going under, what could happen?

[Oakes]

I again agree with you, I just feel of the big 3, Ford is doing the best which is still not good.

If GM was to disappear? I don't want to think about it, it would be bad on a lot of levels. The smallest would have to go under to have the least fallout, Chrysler, because Ford and GM play such big roles in this market/country alone. It's kind of hard to think if they were gone completely.

[EKLIPZGSX97]

Anyway you cut it.... it's ugly. Being a GM owner myself and having a family of GM owners (15 in my family ranging from '55 Bel-Air's to my 2000 S-10 and my brother's '99 Tahoe) My family has ALWAYS as long as I can remember owned GM products. It would be a HUGE blow personally

If ANY of the big 3 go down (and not just bankrupcy, like completely under to the point of non-existance) it will have soooo many underlying consequences.
Not just the fact that it will flood millions more people into the unemployment pool but it will say to the rest of the world how ****ed we really are as a nation right now... American automakers has been one of our biggest accomplishments as a country in the 20th century. That would be like the middle-east Oil market taking a dive...
I'm sure it will cause a ripple effect of bad news that I can't even wrap my head around...

However, with the shoe on the other foot if one or more do go down, it will cause whoever makes it through to surge because people(no matter how few) are still gonna buy cars, so their attention will just be elsewhere.
Not to mention the surge in the aftermarket. Say Chrysler goes down completely, all of the parts that they manufacture will still need to be made for the Chrysler products that are still out there. All the rights to the stampings, patents, etc would be sold off and aftermarket companies like Keystone would almost corner the market