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View Full Version : Twincharged Cobalt SS / ION Red Line

SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 10:21 AM
Coming soon!

http://www.gmenthusiast.com/gallery/sema2005/Wednesday/IMG_6621.JPG
http://www.gmenthusiast.com/gallery/sema2005/Wednesday/IMG_6622.JPG
http://www.gmenthusiast.com/gallery/sema2005/Wednesday/IMG_6620.JPG
SilverTurboRidin
11-03-2005, 10:24 AM
thats cool...i think me and you were talking about this before
MuddyREX
11-03-2005, 10:39 AM
Are you really going to do that?
markley02
11-03-2005, 10:39 AM
umm, shouldn't you have a S/C feeding a turbo? What is the point of this? How does a turbo turn the pulley for the S/C???? I am very confused.
SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 10:58 AM
A turbo on top of the roots blower (like the one in the IRL and CSS) will provide for awesome power throughout the entire rpm band. This has been done on many Mini Cooper S's and MR2s. The s/c will provide low-end power and help the turbo spool faster for high end power. It's a win-win situation :)
SilverTurboRidin
11-03-2005, 11:01 AM
A turbo on top of the roots blower (like the one in the IRL and CSS) will provide for awesome power throughout the entire rpm band. This has been done on many Mini Cooper S's and MR2s. The s/c will provide low-end power and help the turbo spool faster for high end power. It's a win-win situation :)


yeah until something blows lol
SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 11:02 AM
Are you really going to do that?


No. I'm done modding cars. The only other mod my car is getting is a new clutch when the stock one goes.
MuddyREX
11-03-2005, 11:07 AM
No. I'm done modding cars. The only other mod my car is getting is a new clutch when the stock one goes.

Heh, the way you wrote 'coming soon' got me excited.
SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 11:09 AM
Psi-Fi is in the process of twin-charging their Red Line. So yes, there will be one in our area soon.
markley02
11-03-2005, 11:46 AM
I still dont understand, but whatever. I dont see how you are going to get more high end power. If your motor can handle 10 lbs of boost (just a figure thrown out there) than it can handle 10 lbs of boost. Then change your pulley to put out 10 lbs on the S/C. How does a turbo help???
SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 12:29 PM
Our supercharger is maxed out at roughly 18psi (which is what im running). If we want more than that, we need a turbo on top. With the way a roots blower is designed, air from the turbo will blow right through the supercharger. However, compressed air from a roots blower is hotter than air compressed from a turbo. Looks like the Hahn setup is using the stock pulley (12psi) and useing the turbo to create boost above 12.
markley02
11-03-2005, 12:38 PM
why not just a better S/C then? Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious and never seen one of these setups.
cavingchick
11-03-2005, 12:42 PM
I know, brendan was showing me these pics last night. Soo much potential with that IRL!
Gorilla Unit 33
11-03-2005, 02:02 PM
whats the cost of the kist and whats there estimated whp
SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 03:20 PM
why not just a better S/C then? Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious and never seen one of these setups.

They're good questions though. Some people are working on stuffing the M112 in there (M62 comes w/ the Red Line). However, Whipple has an exact replacement for the M62 (1600AX) and it's a twin-screw (compression between the screws, not in the intake manifold = cooler air). No one has put the 1600AX in their Red Line yet... I believe it's because there would be no where to put one of the MAP sensors or something... I forget.
99SL2_Modder
11-03-2005, 03:43 PM
They're good questions though. Some people are working on stuffing the M112 in there (M62 comes w/ the Red Line). However, Whipple has an exact replacement for the M62 (1600AX) and it's a twin-screw (compression between the screws, not in the intake manifold = cooler air). No one has put the 1600AX in their Red Line yet... I believe it's because there would be no where to put one of the MAP sensors or something... I forget.

Most likely the cost.

The whipple twin, as I've mentioned to you, is a direct replacement, bolts, mounts, everything. It can push more, is louder, and is a pretty penny.

*edit*
I don't believe the cooling system is a direct swap though, so that could cause problems.
IBLIS
11-03-2005, 04:24 PM
How much boost can the Colbalt SS & Saturn Redline handle without building the internals? I've seen the 500hp handbook from GM on that little motor & it is impressive.
Intercooled T
11-03-2005, 04:55 PM
How does this work? Wouldn't you want the supercharger for top end and the turbocharger for low-end torque?

I was under the impression that a small turbocharger will have less top end. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it spools fast, but...uh...i'm confused now...

I think your car sounds sick @ 18psi...that's my opinion
SilverBulletRL
11-03-2005, 05:18 PM
Thanks :)

Wait till you hear it scream @ 7,000 rpms when I get my stage 1 ecu reflash :)

As for how much boost it can handle...

It's not about boost... its power. Rumor has it our stock motor can handle 400-450whp. After that, time to upgrade internals.
99SL2_Modder
11-03-2005, 05:19 PM
How much boost can the Colbalt SS & Saturn Redline handle without building the internals? I've seen the 500hp handbook from GM on that little motor & it is impressive.

A lot.

They're forged internals stock(well, if I remember right, more like forged pistons and nitrated rods...the rod issue can be solved quick and easy with Eagles). The crank needs to be upgraded somewhere around 600hp, though.
99SL2_Modder
11-03-2005, 05:20 PM
Thanks :)

Wait till you hear it scream @ 7,000 rpms when I get my stage 1 ecu reflash :)

As for how much boost it can handle...

It's not about boost... its power. Rumor has it our stock motor can handle 400-450whp. After that, time to upgrade internals.

Build has it that stock internals can handle somewhere upwards of 500whp. Then the crank wants to go.

The rods will handle a lot, but better be safe than sorry and get some forged ones in there
92dxman
11-04-2005, 12:17 PM
Back in the mid 80's, Lancia had a group B rally car called the Delta S4. It was supercharged and turboed all in one. Over 400hp from an 1800cc engine. Legend has it hitting 0-60 in 2.8 secs on a gravel road. in 1986, it ran a lap on the a track in Portugal that used to be on the F1 circuit. The time that it ran wouldve placed it 4th on the grid for the 1986 Portugal Grand Prix.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia_Delta_S4
http://www.fast-autos.net/lancia/lancias4.html
Little G
11-04-2005, 07:44 PM
thats pretty cool
DropTopChevy
11-04-2005, 08:20 PM
Back in the mid 80's, Lancia had a group B rally car called the Delta S4. It was supercharged and turboed all in one. Over 400hp from an 1800cc engine. Legend has it hitting 0-60 in 2.8 secs on a gravel road. in 1986, it ran a lap on the a track in Portugal that used to be on the F1 circuit. The time that it ran wouldve placed it 4th on the grid for the 1986 Portugal Grand Prix.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia_Delta_S4
http://www.fast-autos.net/lancia/lancias4.html

I read about this car in Sport Compact Car a few months back, that car was badass. It was too fast for rally and it was killing people left and right so they banned it.
99SL2_Modder
11-04-2005, 08:29 PM
I read about this car in Sport Compact Car a few months back, that car was badass. It was too fast for rally and it was killing people left and right so they banned it.

You misinterpreted what they wrote. The car was in Group B. There was only one fatal crash in the S4, but in Group B, where there were very few restrictions on anything (power was unlimited, high tech materials, uber-light weights), had many fatal crashes due to tons of power blowing through the course.

*edit*
Eventually, Group B was banned from rallys/
Gorilla Unit 33
11-04-2005, 08:48 PM
damn the numbers they can hold with stock internals is nice
cavingman
11-05-2005, 07:21 PM
yay! saw this the other day, sooooo excited :D
Intercooled T
11-05-2005, 10:24 PM
that'll be nice if they offer this combo with the saturn sky....would be a quick and light ride...alex, when you going to dyno your car again?
SilverBulletRL
11-07-2005, 05:09 PM
I plan to dyno soon. The new spark plugs for my car did wonders! The originals were toasted LOL. Should be putting down 255whp now.
BlackBulletTSi
11-08-2005, 01:21 AM
The saturn sky redline is coming with a Turbo on it and is estimated at I believe 253HP. I was going to do the twin charge kit and let one of the shops blow up my car after I saved money to replace it. I've talked to a GM engineer one time I forget where and he said the same thing Clint said everything is able to handle a hell of a lot but the crank wants to hang itself at 600. Once I get me a new job makin good money again I might get me another Red Line just because of how much fun I had with it heh. If I do I will definatly be doing this to my car :) talk about a sleeper!!
99SL2_Modder
11-08-2005, 04:06 PM
The saturn sky redline is coming with a Turbo on it and is estimated at I believe 253HP. I was going to do the twin charge kit and let one of the shops blow up my car after I saved money to replace it. I've talked to a GM engineer one time I forget where and he said the same thing Clint said everything is able to handle a hell of a lot but the crank wants to hang itself at 600. Once I get me a new job makin good money again I might get me another Red Line just because of how much fun I had with it heh. If I do I will definatly be doing this to my car :) talk about a sleeper!!

The problem with the RL cranks is that they were not nitrated when they were made. They'd handle much more power than the 600 if they had been.

Nitrating after the fact doesn't improve strength.

Guess which Saturns came with nitrated cranks? That's right. Good ol' s-series. Nitrated cranks and styrofoam internals. Hot sh!t.

And I believe the Sky RL was something like 240, which is the same output as the NSX engine in the Vue RL. Would have been easier just to drop that engine into the Sky and boost THAT instead.
SilverBulletRL
11-08-2005, 04:30 PM
I'd have to disagree with you on that one.
hellafastwrx
11-08-2005, 06:46 PM
Us WRX guys knew that the Redline / Cobalt SS guys would start to tap into some awsome power sooner or later


Sounds like a great project / experiment!
99SL2_Modder
11-08-2005, 09:10 PM
I'd have to disagree with you on that one.

On what?
92dxman
11-11-2005, 01:18 AM
Over in Europe, VW is planning to bring out a 1.4 gas engine with a turbo and a supercharger. The claimed torque that it puts out is 178 lb/ft, the same as 1.9 tdi's in the states. All at the same time returning 39.2 mpg. It is a shame there is no talk of bringing this to the states.
BlackBulletTSi
11-11-2005, 01:26 AM
that'd be nice to bring to the states and yes I'd like to know what you disagree on Alex.
EzEddie
11-17-2005, 05:09 PM
No. I'm done modding cars. The only other mod my car is getting is a new clutch when the stock one goes.

Thanks :)

Wait till you hear it scream @ 7,000 rpms when I get my stage 1 ecu reflash :)

hmm sounds like somebody is a hypocrite....


I tend to agree with everyone else on here...It should be done by using the s/c to spool the turbo. An evo owner on evolutionm.net did it this way and it turned out awesome.
99SL2_Modder
11-17-2005, 05:11 PM
hmm sounds like somebody is a hypocrite....

That's not technically a modification...it's just a reprogrammed computer from the factory. :lol:
igo4bmx
11-17-2005, 05:22 PM
why do cranks fail at 600 hp?
99SL2_Modder
11-17-2005, 05:30 PM
why do cranks fail at 600 hp?

Not nitrated, and overall fairly weak.

No one is really sure why they didn't nitrate the Ecotech cranks. They just didn't.
igo4bmx
11-17-2005, 05:37 PM
Not nitrated, and overall fairly weak.

No one is really sure why they didn't nitrate the Ecotech cranks. They just didn't.


so what are you say? they break in half or spin bearings?
BlackBulletTSi
11-17-2005, 06:18 PM
Spin bearings I believe. Also it is *** that they didn't nitrate it I mean everything else is forged and what not.
99SL2_Modder
11-17-2005, 07:20 PM
so what are you say? they break in half or spin bearings?

Crack and get damaged. I don't think they physically break in half, but get damaged to the point of not being able to be refurbed.

Spin bearings I believe. Also it is *** that they didn't nitrate it I mean everything else is forged and what not.

One of the 2 things are not forged. Either the pistons, or the rods. One of them is just hardened/tougher. I can't remember which
EzEddie
11-18-2005, 08:55 PM
That's not technically a modification...it's just a reprogrammed computer from the factory. :lol:so does it have stock settings or modified settings?? since it will have modified settings then it will be considered a modification.

modification:
A small alteration, adjustment, or limitation.

taken from dictionary.com
99SL2_Modder
11-18-2005, 09:08 PM
so does it have stock settings or modified settings?? since it will have modified settings then it will be considered a modification.

modification:
A small alteration, adjustment, or limitation.

taken from dictionary.com

Maybe I didn't make myself clear:

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Got it yet? :mrgreen: