Timing Problems on my 1G DSM

[92talonTSI]

well i decided to let my friend drive my 1992 Eagle Talon TSI AWD the other night. what a mistake that was. he was beating on it and redlining it and i told him to slow down and he didnt. what an asshole

all of a sudden my engine stalled. i throw him out of the car and try to start it. i get nothing but dash lights. i wait a minute try agian, and it turns on very slowly. apprerently the timing belt slipped while he was beating on my car, says the guy at the garage, and as of nov. 6:30 PM EST the car is only runing on two cylenders


Bottom line: Engine is running on only 2 cylenders, and im guesing the other 2 are just misfiring, the timeing belt is still on, but he needs to run compression tests to see just whats going on. Think my valves are bent?!?!



i just found gold: apperently my new jasper motor is still under a warranty for another year. parts and labor... if my valves are bent would the warranty cover this?

[teh DIRT]

hmmm. heres your choices.

1. a slipping belt will alter your timing.....but in most cases not to the point where a cylinder wont run....unless 2.

2. the belt slipped, two pistons colided with their valves and bent the hell out of them. Now they arent sealing and those cyls arent running

[2point4DSM]

If the car bent any valves because the timing belt skipped it won't move at all. Best case scenario is a battery or coil pack issue. Worse case scenario is the car was running lean and you melted a plug or a piston.

What throws this all off is the fact you mentioned that your having power isuses. Is the battery tied down. It is possible it was jumping around in the engine bay and shorted itself on the hood.

If it's not the battery figure out which cylinders aren't working, pull the spark plugs, do a compression test, and go from there.

If you pull the breather hose are you getting a lot of air rushing out of there?

Best bet is to take it to a reliable DSM shop. As you noticed already, most other shops will keep you guessing cause they have no clue... just like the shop that diagnosed it with a skipped timing belt.

[92talonTSI]

If the car bent any valves because the timing belt skipped it won't move at all. Best case scenario is a battery or coil pack issue. Worse case scenario is the car was running lean and you melted a plug or a piston.

What throws this all off is the fact you mentioned that your having power isuses. Is the battery tied down. It is possible it was jumping around in the engine bay and shorted itself on the hood.

If it's not the battery figure out which cylinders aren't working, pull the spark plugs, do a compression test, and go from there.

If you pull the breather hose are you getting a lot of air rushing out of there?

Best bet is to take it to a reliable DSM shop. As you noticed already, most other shops will keep you guessing cause they have no clue... just like the shop that diagnosed it with a skipped timing belt.no it wasnt a power issue, the lights just lit up meaning the engine stalled on me. then a few minutes later i got it started

im gunna call jasper tomorrow considering i still have a warranty, see if im elegiable. if im not, it will cost me almost 200 bucks for a compression test..

[2point4DSM]

all of a sudden my engine stalled. i throw him out of the car and try to start it. i get nothing but dash lights. i wait a minute try agian, and it turns on very slowly.

The fact that your starter didn't work right away points to power problems. Even if you melt your piston or plugs the starter is still going to spin the same way as if your motor was fine.

And when you say "turns on very slowly," do you mean the starter was spinning slowly or do you mean you had to crank it over a lot just for the motor to fire up?

[SpendOne]

im gunna call jasper tomorrow considering i still have a warranty, see if im elegiable. if im not, it will cost me almost 200 bucks for a compression test..

200.00!?!??!?!? What, the compression tester is only 25.00!

[92talonTSI]

The fact that your starter didn't work right away points to power problems. Even if you melt your piston or plugs the starter is still going to spin the same way as if your motor was fine.

And when you say "turns on very slowly," do you mean the starter was spinning slowly or do you mean you had to crank it over a lot just for the motor to fire up?
had to crank it over alot

[92talonTSI]

200.00!?!??!?!? What, the compression tester is only 25.00!
he said it would be alot of work becasue of something witht he other 2 non working cylenders, idk il have more details tomorrow

[2point4DSM]

What kind of boost and mods does your car run?

[92talonTSI]

What kind of boost and mods does your car run?none.
i have a 16g turbo, but is only pushing 14 lbs of boost max. that and the turbo back exhaust are the only performance mods as of now

[2point4DSM]

If you were running a lot of timing or low grade/crappy fuel you could have possibly hurt the motor. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards a coil pack issue.

[92talonTSI]

If you were running a lot of timing or low grade/crappy fuel you could have possibly hurt the motor. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards a coil pack issue.
nah, always super gasoline in my car, and acculy i think it still had mobil gas in it... saying it was a coil pack issue, what does that mean lol, and how much to replace or repair.

ill have more details tomorrow
im going to bed. thanks for the help

[2point4DSM]

Our car uses a wasted spark setup. Meaning it runs two coil packs, each coil operating two cylinders. The coil pack is located at the other end of the spark plug wires tucked inside the intake manifold.

If one of the coil packs takes a dump then you lose 2 cylinders. I believe one coil pack operates 1 and 4, the other operates 2 and 3. If, while the car is running you pull the spark plug wire off one spark plug at a time and the it makes a difference in the way the motor sounds then you know that cylinder is working. If you are having problems with one of the groups then it is the coil pack or something related to it like wiring or transistor. But more likely the coil pack unless your transistor is not bolted up correctly.

It is also possible that it is just the connector for the coil pack. If it comes loose then you could lose signal to one of the coil packs. Look for it under the spark plugs near the FPR and check to make sure it is making good contact. It is a triangular connector.

[2point4DSM]

Btw, when you start messing around that area make sure that the vacumm hose going to the fpr doesn't get pulled off!

[92talonTSI]

Our car uses a wasted spark setup. Meaning it runs two coil packs, each coil operating two cylinders. The coil pack is located at the other end of the spark plug wires tucked inside the intake manifold.

If one of the coil packs takes a dump then you lose 2 cylinders. I believe one coil pack operates 1 and 4, the other operates 2 and 3. If, while the car is running you pull the spark plug wire off one spark plug at a time and the it makes a difference in the way the motor sounds then you know that cylinder is working. If you are having problems with one of the groups then it is the coil pack or something related to it like wiring or transistor. But more likely the coil pack unless your transistor is not bolted up correctly.

It is also possible that it is just the connector for the coil pack. If it comes loose then you could lose signal to one of the coil packs. Look for it under the spark plugs near the FPR and check to make sure it is making good contact. It is a triangular connector.
well my auto shop teacher said if i did skip the timeing in the belt, i might of dented 8 of the 16 valves, i dont think thats possible but im not sure. my mechanic is gonig to give it a compression test tomorrow so we will see what happens

[92talonTSI]

Compression Test Results are in:
Cylender1-0
Cylender2-25
Cylender3-125
cylender4-0

[bjc26]

I would suggest pulling the upper timing belt cover and turning the crank so that it indicates that cylinder 1 is at tdc (top dead center). Look at the timing marks on the camshafts and see where they are at. They should line up but I am fairly certain at this point they do not. Let me know what you find. Sounds like you have skipped timing somehow to get those compression numbers.

You could have him re-do the timing correctly and re-test to see what kind of compression you have. I would set the pistons all to middle height then turn over the camshafts individually (without timing belt on) to see if you can feel any resistance/grinding. Chances are you messed up a pistion, or more likely some valves. Without tearing down the top end of the motor it is tough to tell.

Good luck.

[Adam496]

Compression Test Results are in:
Cylender1-0
Cylender2-25
Cylender3-125
cylender4-0

Ouch..He really messed up your car.

[2point4DSM]

Compression Test Results are in:
Cylender1-0
Cylender2-25
Cylender3-125
cylender4-0

This isn't what I would call running on 2 cylinders. And no way the car could move on its own power with these numbers.

[the mike]

I would definately check the cam timing. If it were my car.

[Gorilla Unit 33]

Compression Test Results are in:
Cylender1-0
Cylender2-25
Cylender3-125
cylender4-0
whoop his ass

[Fastrick25]

Yes a large can of whoop as in order, im not sure if the warranty would cover damage by what seems to be a valve float issue, but good luck any how.

[2point4DSM]

Could have over-revved the motor and floated the valves....

[Dsmman]

Time to pull the head and inspect the damage. Just hope that the valves were the only thing damaged and you didn't put a hole through the pistons or completely trashed the head.

[92talonTSI]

Time to pull the head and inspect the damage. Just hope that the valves were the only thing damaged and you didn't put a hole through the pistons or completely trashed the head.
yeah im taking off the head this comming monday in my autoshop class and im gunna work on it in there, this way i only have to pay for parts. it also helped that my teacher worked at a mitsu dealer from 1985 to 1998 :D :D
i dont think i mseed up my pistons, but i could be wrong of course

[Dsmman]

yeah im taking off the head this comming monday in my autoshop class and im gunna work on it in there, this way i only have to pay for parts. it also helped that my teacher worked at a mitsu dealer from 1985 to 1998 :D :D
i dont think i mseed up my pistons, but i could be wrong of course


Well, you'll find out soon enough. Even if the valves did contact the pistons.. alot of times you can sand out the high spots.

[92talonTSI]

well heres some updates.. the timign on my car was perfect, but i still got some bent valves, mostly becasue the engine was reving so high that the valves didnt have enough time to close and the piston still kissed some of the valves.

i only need 6 new exhaust valves and im probably just going to get a whole head set and gaskets just to be safe. so its only gunna wind up costing me liek 200 bucks. also now that everything is off i can finally put my 2g manifold and 02 housing on :D

i cant wait to get my car back :afro: