lets talk h-series.

[dragonfly2k3]

I recently came across a dirt cheap h23 swap for my accord. It skipped timing, but i think the head is ok. If its not i will just do an h22 head, but if its good id like to stick with fixed valve timing. Now, assuming i dont want to spend alot on this build, what do you guys think i can make power wise.

The motor will be getting a full rebuild just due to the mileage that it has. Obviously this will involve a .020 overbore, new bearings, all gaskets/seals, and any other parts that are worn out of spec.

So far my basic list includes:
ARP rod bolts
ARP main bolts
ARP head studs
.020 overbore.


What else do you guys suggest for making power. I will probably be looking into a pair of cams with springs and retainers, as well as a lighter flywheel.

Before anyone says just boost the f22, heres the deal. I can spend the 1100 on boosting my 175k mile f22, of spend the less than 1100 on rebuilding the h23, and have a motor that will last me much longer while i go through the build of my f22 on the side.

[The Captain]

What kind of car is this goin in? 4th gen prelude? Accord?

What are your power goals?

Why don't you save up/ wait for a good h22 deal?
-honestly i wouldn't put 1100 into rebuilding an h23, I'd much rather get a h22 and start with more power than the h23 will put out with full bolt ons.

[07NHBPCivicSi]

i would never buy or use a motor that skipped timming

[dragonfly2k3]

lol, when i say bought, i mean hardly. I payed $50 for the entire swap. Also, im not going to be spending 1100, my power goals are honestly like 170whp. Id like to just get a full set of arp hardware, and a bore/hone/deck. I dont believe the valves were affected at all, but obviously i dont know for sure yet.

[The Captain]

There are so many options with a combination of the f22 iron-sleeved block and h23 head, or h23 block h22 head yadda yadda yadda. It really depends on how confident you are of you abilities on building the motor.

The f22 is goin to be pretty damn reliable, even with that mileage, obviously depending on how well it was maintained. It's a rock solid motor, but it really doesn't shine in the performance category. Honestly, working with just a straight h23 or f22, i wouldn't put any money into modding them. Just not enough of a bang for the buck. Rarely see a h23 w/ 170 whp, but they do put out some nice torque in honda numbers.

[Keeper1343]

my god people... put the h22 head on the damn f22 block... put forged internals in the F22 block and upgraded valve train with stock cams in the h22 head... Turbo it. Done deal. IF your gonna turbo the h22 block, DONT PUT FORGED INTERNALS IN IT. It will ruin the block

Don't get the lighter flywheel either. Stay stock with it. The lighter ones aren't made for alot of power

[dragonfly2k3]

what do you mean by the lighter ones arent made for alot of power. By reducing the weight of the flywheel you are reducing the engine rev time, and drag. At the same time, reducing the amount of rotating mass, resulting in a faster loss of rpm as well.

[dragonfly2k3]

oh yeah, for everyone that says to put the h22 head on my f22 block with forged internals, if you paypal me the money, ill be happy to. I can do all of the dis-assembly/assembly, and i have a friend that will machine it for me for the cost of shipping to get the block to his school. So again, if you want to pay for me to buy a bunch more parts, be my guest. Im in school with no job, ive got to be careful what i dump my cash into.
Oh yeah, and the car cant be down for a long perior of time, which is why i dont have time to tear both motors apart.

[The Captain]

What else do you guys suggest for making power.

You asked for suggestions, we gave you suggestions. If you want to have an f22 or h23, good luck making power, those motors are dogs. I'm done giving help.

[marecco]

also the $1100 that your suggesting does that include the cost of a machine shop to do the boring, honing, etc. because that gets expensive and your going to be over your $1100 budget right there.

[DC2.2GSR]

i agree with pretty much all of above. the F22 and H23 motors are great for certain things, especially if you have the money to upgrade internals and then turbo. if you don't, well they're good for spare parts.

if you're trying to make power, N/A H22A setups with simple bolt ons will get you that 170whp very easily... with big torque to match. your only other option for true power is to use certain parts from all 3 motors to construct a frankenstein motor similar to an LS-VTEC.

just like that LS-V setup, you'll make tons more power all with OEM parts. but, by the time you get the assembly work and machining done, buy a tuning system and a good tune, etc etc you'll be near the price of a straight JDM H22A swap (with ECU and trans) that you couldhave dropped right in and been done with.

Of course there are tons of different opinions about the subject, but if you want more information than you can possibly read in one sitting, check out this FAQ. scroll down to 'Hybrid/Swaps'

Honda-Tech Prelude FAQ (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2168311)

[dragonfly2k3]

i agree with pretty much all of above. the F22 and H23 motors are great for certain things, especially if you have the money to upgrade internals and then turbo. if you don't, well they're good for spare parts.

if you're trying to make power, N/A H22A setups with simple bolt ons will get you that 170whp very easily... with big torque to match. your only other option for true power is to use certain parts from all 3 motors to construct a frankenstein motor similar to an LS-VTEC.

just like that LS-V setup, you'll make tons more power all with OEM parts. but, by the time you get the assembly work and machining done, buy a tuning system and a good tune, etc etc you'll be near the price of a straight JDM H22A swap (with ECU and trans) that you couldhave dropped right in and been done with.

Of course there are tons of different opinions about the subject, but if you want more information than you can possibly read in one sitting, check out this FAQ. scroll down to 'Hybrid/Swaps'

Honda-Tech Prelude FAQ (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2168311)


I take most of your information as truth because it seems like you have done a TON of research. I have heard that teh h23 boost set-ups are a waste due to thin cylinder walls and ****ty sleeves.

Also, im laughing at people getting pissy, surely there are other ways to make power other than swapping head/not using this motor. Also, i already addressed the machining issue, its a non-issue.

[DC2.2GSR]

yeah there are ways to make power with any motor setup, it's just a matter of how far you want to take a project and how much effort you're willing to put into being a bit different.

if i were you, here's what i would do.

forget the H23. while there are options for power, you have to do 'stuff' to it to extract that power. sure it's a good motor for a daily driver being that it makes good torque numbers and it still fuel efficient. for your situation though (little money to work with... just like me), it doesn't seem worth it to pick up the bargain H23 and rebuild it to get N/A power from it.

buy a JDM H22A. believe me.. you'll be amazed at the power it makes right off the bat, the ease of installation and the fact that you won't have to sit and debate which internals you use or what to take to the machine shop. it's a drop in and go situation. (there's your quick swap, not down for more than 2-3 days). as for power, people have made anywhere from 160-190 hp with only I/H/E. it all depends on the health of the motor you get.

think about transmisison choise also. i'm assuming your car is 5 speed. you can swap either the H23 or H22 and stay with your F trans, they're all identical housings. so, there's your convenience. you could buy a longblock and stick with your trans for the time being and buy a better one when you have the cash. from experience (with a friend's Prelude) you won't want to stay that way for long though, an H22 with an F trans is SLOOOOW. lol. noone likes falling out of VTEC with every shift. the benefit of buying an H22A full swap is that for $2K even, you get everything, including the close ratio H22 trans.

IMO i think you should drive your car as-is at least over the winter or whatever and save your money until you have enough to open more doors. when you have enough to sit online or go to an importer/supplier with a list of possibilities, then make your decision. trust me, you'll be glad you did. you may end up deciding on the H23. you may end up deciding to boost the F22 anyway. either way, you will have eliminated the need to make a decision based on the cost. you can make a choice based on your driving preferences. what would you rather drive everyday?

[dragonfly2k3]

Even if i dont use it, buying the swap is awesome, i can always sell it for some profit.

[blackhatch92]

I think what your going for is somewhat of a budget build? In that case i think you should probably do h22 type s pistons .20 over to really get some power i def. say go with the h22 head if you have the money a mil cam maybe like skunk 2 tuner 2s a good header really opens up the potential on these along with a good intake manifold ( not skunk 2, more like a stock one sent to a company called blacktrax) they make amazing power. with all that said your looking at if you build it yourself were talking maybe 2500 for the whole build and with a good tune somewhere around 215 whp!

[BigWhiteTodd]

i heard someone putting k series pistons in the f22 block with a h22 head and making some crazy power, also the compression is around 13.1 or something like that.

[Keeper1343]

what do you mean by the lighter ones arent made for alot of power. By reducing the weight of the flywheel you are reducing the engine rev time, and drag. At the same time, reducing the amount of rotating mass, resulting in a faster loss of rpm as well.

They aren't made for turbo applications. they are weaker. But for NA they are fine. But if your going only for 170HP I would just get the JDM H22. They dyno stock at 165. Buy a NICE header, get a intake and exhaust and you will be close to 200. Now if you want to boost the car. You can go get a F23 block from the junkyard for like $80. Then put that h22 head on it. forge the internals and your still only around $900-$1000. Then just piece a turbo kit together and for around $2500 you can have a cast iron sleeved turbo car. Thats what i would do.

[Da InFaMMuS 1]

i would say save up and go full H swap. I was thinking about all the options you currently are and i finally decided on an H23vtec swap. Best idea i ever had in that situation i believe, car is a blast to drive.


And idk how the above member says you can't use a lightened flywheel on turbo apps. My friend has been running a turbo b18 with an 8lb flywheel just fine for over a year already on 10 lbs of boost.

[james_ls]

F23 or whatever its called.

Things are SOLID!

[V-rec]

Take that H23 bottom end and mate it wit a H22a vtec head... H23vtec at 10psi as a DD. u be set, best setup for the money. or a g-series if u can do that boost it to 12...

[The Captain]

Take that H23 bottom end and mate it wit a H22a vtec head... H23vtec at 10psi as a DD. u be set, best setup for the money. or a g-series if u can do that boost it to 12...

lolwut. If only it was that easy. :eek::roll:

[DC2.2GSR]

lol yeah it would be nice if you could throw in a million different combinations like that. unfortunately we live in this dimension and you're not getting a G series motor in there without doing everything from scratch ($$) or waiting for a big company like hasport or innovative to do the R&D (also $$).

[Keeper1343]

lol yeah it would be nice if you could throw in a million different combinations like that. unfortunately we live in this dimension and you're not getting a G series motor in there without doing everything from scratch ($$) or waiting for a big company like hasport or innovative to do the R&D (also $$).


There is no R&D. Its a direct bolt in. The head is the only thing that needs to be modified in order to work.

[DC2.2GSR]

:bigeek: a G series?? since when does the 5 cyl from the old vigor and TL bolt right into anything? and why would the head need work?

i dunno, maybe i'm missing something here, but i'm pretty sure i'm up on H series and general Accord/Prelude knowledge and i've never heard of putting a G series motor in anything.

[Keeper1343]

:bigeek: a G series?? since when does the 5 cyl from the old vigor and TL bolt right into anything? and why would the head need work?

i dunno, maybe i'm missing something here, but i'm pretty sure i'm up on H series and general Accord/Prelude knowledge and i've never heard of putting a G series motor in anything.


HAHA not that old thing man... ha. A G series swap is F23 bottom end and H22 Head. What letter is between F and H. I guess you learned something new today. And so did i. Never knew honda made a 5 cyl motor ahha.

[dragonfly2k3]

**** it, im just doing a straight swap, and then build the f22 while its out.

[V-rec]

There is no R&D. Its a direct bolt in. The head is the only thing that needs to be modified in order to work.

Truth be known!!