ZR1 vs GTR vid, ZR1 a disappointment

[ndubz]

Ok guys watch this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-PQca6FJU

Yes i realize that edmunds declares the ZR1 the winner, but lets look a little closer... First off, on the dyno the ZR1 makes 505whp that from 638bhp, thats a 21% drivetrain loss!!! from a rear drive vette? thats more than my awd sti loses!!! the gtr made 404awhp from 483bhp, thats a normal 17% drivetrain loss for an awd car. The vette is losing double what most rwd cars lose at the wheels. So if u got a GTR, send it to COBB tuning, they will give it similar hp to the stock ZR1, and you will actually make more whp too. with an awd car!!! not to mention, the GTR even after being sent to COBB, is still a few G $tack$ less than the ZR1. Also interesting how they had to compare the GTR to the ZR1 over the more appropriately priced Z06...hmm. Sorry chevy, i think Nissan has u beat either way. Not that either of these cars are bad, just saying that the ZR1 disappointed a bit from my expectations. And that the GTR has risen even higher in my respect than before.

Also, Edmunds sucks A$$ at getting good test results. 0-60 figures for both cars should be in the low 3s and they got 3.8. The vette i understand, but in the gtr, all u have to do is set up launch control and floor the gas, its retardedly easy so edmunds must be retarded. LOL

[Scapegoat]

oh here we go again...

whoooooooo caaaaaares

people buying the ZR1 are buying a car like that for a specific reason, and those buying the GTR have different reasons... we all know that japanese engineering > american...

but forever it will hold true... american muscle > japanese finesse...

[Oakes]

That was the most boring commentator they could have possibly put for those two awesome cars. That is a serious power loss though on the ZR1.

[GHost240SX]

Just a note Nissan as well as GM put out factory freaks. And you have to take into account the different drivetrains and what is attached to them.

[SovXietday]

The transmission and rear in the ZR1 actually will hold up to the power though. We already know the GT-R has issues with it's transmission not being able to hold the power, and Nissan themselves say they've only gotten a handful of launches out of the thing before it axed itself.

That ZR1 drivetrain is damn near bulletproof, if I remember correctly they are using very similar if not the same thing in the ACR Viper, which makes an UNGODLY amount of torque (over 700 if I remember correctly). When talking drivetrain, you only need talk about torque, HP doesn't matter as it is derived from torque.

Take into account that the ZR1 is very torquey, RWD, lightweight, and has very little driver assists. You will need to be behind the wheel of that car for a long ass time before you start to get the full potential out of it. The GT-R is an easy to learn car and most drivers are going to pick it up real quick.

[Oakes]

While I agree with your point, I still feel like a 133 hp loss is kind of weird.

[OBEEWON]

The Laplace transform replaces one function F(t) of t by another f(s) of the new variable s by the rule: f(s) = ∫(0,∞) e-stF(t)dt. f(s) is called the transform of F(t): f(s) = L[F(t)]. An easy integration by parts gives the transform of the derivative of F(t): L[F'(t)] = sf(s) - F(0). If we replace s by p, and F(0) = 0, we recover Heaviside's expression. The transform of U(t) is 1/s, as can be found by doing the easy integral. As far as F(t) is concerned, the transform uses only the values for t > 0, just as in the operational calculus.

Returning to our transient problem, we transform the equation L(dI/dt) + RI = EU(t) to find Lsi(s) + Ri(s) = E/s. This gives i(s) = E/[s(Ls + R)]. To find I(t), we must find the inverse transform of the function of s on the right-hand side. In the elementary use of the Laplace transform, this is done as follows. First, we note that 1/[s(s + k)] = (1/k)[1/s - 1/(s + k)]. This is a partial fraction expansion (used also by Heaviside). We already recognize one term: 1/s = L[U(t)]. As for the other term, it is the transform of e-ktU(t), which can be found by direct integration. If L-1[1/s] = 1 and L-1[1/(s + k)] = e-kt, then L-1[1/s(s+k)] = (1 - ekt)/k, and we find that I(t) = (E/R)(1 - ekt). It is usual to drop the U(t) when using the Laplace transform. Comparing the Heaviside and Laplace methods shows how very similar they are in practice, if not in theory.

The Laplace method, however, has much more powerful mathematics behind it. This includes the convolution theorem, that states that L-1 [f(s)g(s)] = F(t)◊G(t) = ∫(0,t) F(t - τ)G(τ)dτ, the convolution of the two functions F(t) and G(t). The symbol ◊ is used here because the browser does not support the usual symbol, a cross in a circle. It also shows that Laplace transforms are closely related to Fourier transforms, so that similar properties exist (such as convolution). The Fourier transform has an inverse transformation, and the transformation between time and frequency domains is equally convenient both ways, involving a simple integral along the real axes. The Laplace transformation is quite troublesome to invert. There is a formula involving real integrals, and another with repeated differentiation (see Churchill and Widder), but these are of little use because the integrals are too difficult to perform in practical cases. The only practical inversion integral uses analytic functions of a complex variable, and will be discussed below.

Most problems in elementary applications of the Laplace transform can be solved by reference to tables of transform pairs. This was also the usual method for the Heaviside calculus as well. Churchill gives a table with 122 transforms that is extensive enough for most purposes. It is curious that the Laguerre and Hermite polynomials, as well as Bessel functions, have relatively simple transforms. Students like Laplace transform because it seems to be a mechanical method that can be used to find answers without thinking. This is an erroneous impression.

[Oakes]

< head just assssplodeddd

[SovXietday]

E=MC^2

Is it bad that I kinda understood your post?

[TGilb2007]

< head just assssplodeddd

Mine too......

I now have a headache.

[OBEEWON]

Is it bad that I kinda understood your post?

LOL

Yesss, stop paying attention in differential equations!!

[DSMTJ]

i have not seen a zr1 dyno sheet for a stock car, but you put a set of headers on one and it will make over 600whp. good luck getting that out a gtr with $2k invested.

anyway, these are totally different cars, transmissions, engines, and drivetrains. totally different. they were built for a different kind of person.

[ndubz]

i have not seen a zr1 dyno sheet for a stock car, but you put a set of headers on one and it will make over 600whp. good luck getting that out a gtr with $2k invested.

anyway, these are totally different cars, transmissions, engines, and drivetrains. totally different. they were built for a different kind of person.

tru, but ur forgetting that the ZR1 is waaay more expensive to begin with, so with that price difference, they are very competitive cuz u can put alot more than 2k into the gtr and still be cheaper. But tru, they are very different.

[ndubz]

The transmission and rear in the ZR1 actually will hold up to the power though. We already know the GT-R has issues with it's transmission not being able to hold the power, and Nissan themselves say they've only gotten a handful of launches out of the thing before it axed itself.

That ZR1 drivetrain is damn near bulletproof, if I remember correctly they are using very similar if not the same thing in the ACR Viper, which makes an UNGODLY amount of torque (over 700 if I remember correctly). When talking drivetrain, you only need talk about torque, HP doesn't matter as it is derived from torque.

Take into account that the ZR1 is very torquey, RWD, lightweight, and has very little driver assists. You will need to be behind the wheel of that car for a long ass time before you start to get the full potential out of it. The GT-R is an easy to learn car and most drivers are going to pick it up real quick.

Very true. Bulletproof they are. I really hope nissan fixes their tranny issues asap cuz the gtr will then have NO flaws!!!!

[The Captain]

Worst comparison video i've ever seen. Obvious bias since the beginning, not even taking into account the fact that the two cars are COMPLETELY different.

[ndubz]

The Laplace transform replaces one function F(t) of t by another f(s) of the new variable s by the rule: f(s) = ∫(0,∞) e-stF(t)dt. f(s) is called the transform of F(t): f(s) = L[F(t)]. An easy integration by parts gives the transform of the derivative of F(t): L[F'(t)] = sf(s) - F(0). If we replace s by p, and F(0) = 0, we recover Heaviside's expression. The transform of U(t) is 1/s, as can be found by doing the easy integral. As far as F(t) is concerned, the transform uses only the values for t > 0, just as in the operational calculus.

Returning to our transient problem, we transform the equation L(dI/dt) + RI = EU(t) to find Lsi(s) + Ri(s) = E/s. This gives i(s) = E/[s(Ls + R)]. To find I(t), we must find the inverse transform of the function of s on the right-hand side. In the elementary use of the Laplace transform, this is done as follows. First, we note that 1/[s(s + k)] = (1/k)[1/s - 1/(s + k)]. This is a partial fraction expansion (used also by Heaviside). We already recognize one term: 1/s = L[U(t)]. As for the other term, it is the transform of e-ktU(t), which can be found by direct integration. If L-1[1/s] = 1 and L-1[1/(s + k)] = e-kt, then L-1[1/s(s+k)] = (1 - ekt)/k, and we find that I(t) = (E/R)(1 - ekt). It is usual to drop the U(t) when using the Laplace transform. Comparing the Heaviside and Laplace methods shows how very similar they are in practice, if not in theory.

The Laplace method, however, has much more powerful mathematics behind it. This includes the convolution theorem, that states that L-1 [f(s)g(s)] = F(t)◊G(t) = ∫(0,t) F(t - τ)G(τ)dτ, the convolution of the two functions F(t) and G(t). The symbol ◊ is used here because the browser does not support the usual symbol, a cross in a circle. It also shows that Laplace transforms are closely related to Fourier transforms, so that similar properties exist (such as convolution). The Fourier transform has an inverse transformation, and the transformation between time and frequency domains is equally convenient both ways, involving a simple integral along the real axes. The Laplace transformation is quite troublesome to invert. There is a formula involving real integrals, and another with repeated differentiation (see Churchill and Widder), but these are of little use because the integrals are too difficult to perform in practical cases. The only practical inversion integral uses analytic functions of a complex variable, and will be discussed below.

Most problems in elementary applications of the Laplace transform can be solved by reference to tables of transform pairs. This was also the usual method for the Heaviside calculus as well. Churchill gives a table with 122 transforms that is extensive enough for most purposes. It is curious that the Laguerre and Hermite polynomials, as well as Bessel functions, have relatively simple transforms. Students like Laplace transform because it seems to be a mechanical method that can be used to find answers without thinking. This is an erroneous impression.

Ok i sort of get this, but i dont take this course for 2 more years. But damn bro did u just know this, or did google help u out. Be honest its impressive either way.

[SovXietday]

^ That is copy and paste to the max.

[92sileighty]

i wanna know how he got the integration symbol on here lol i didn't know that existed

[The Captain]

Blah blah blah math stuff blah blah blah

Awe, now why you gotta go and get all smart on us, Donnie?

[CleanNeon98]

Ok guys watch this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-PQca6FJU

Yes i realize that edmunds declares the ZR1 the winner, but lets look a little closer... First off, on the dyno the ZR1 makes 505whp that from 638bhp, thats a 21% drivetrain loss!!! from a rear drive vette? thats more than my awd sti loses!!! the gtr made 404awhp from 483bhp, thats a normal 17% drivetrain loss for an awd car. The vette is losing double what most rwd cars lose at the wheels. So if u got a GTR, send it to COBB tuning, they will give it similar hp to the stock ZR1, and you will actually make more whp too. with an awd car!!! not to mention, the GTR even after being sent to COBB, is still a few G $tack$ less than the ZR1. Also interesting how they had to compare the GTR to the ZR1 over the more appropriately priced Z06...hmm. Sorry chevy, i think Nissan has u beat either way. Not that either of these cars are bad, just saying that the ZR1 disappointed a bit from my expectations. And that the GTR has risen even higher in my respect than before.

Also, Edmunds sucks A$$ at getting good test results. 0-60 figures for both cars should be in the low 3s and they got 3.8. The vette i understand, but in the gtr, all u have to do is set up launch control and floor the gas, its retardedly easy so edmunds must be retarded. LOL
But that would break it :cry:

[bl@ckvr4]

But that would break it :cry:

:iagree:

[OBEEWON]

i have not seen a zr1 dyno sheet for a stock car, but you put a set of headers on one and it will make over 600whp. good luck getting that out a gtr with $2k invested.



Yeah...so.....


Amuse made 620 on stock everything after they tuned the ecu so...there goes that...


...Tuners are claiming 700whp just on ecu upgrades....

[CleanNeon98]

Yeah...so.....


Amuse made 620 on stock everything after they tuned the ecu so...there goes that...


...Tuners are claiming 700whp just on ecu upgrades....
Yea but an ECU and headers are different...

[05 mazda6s]

Like the GT-R, the ZR1's engine pulls very consistently over several runs. The final numbers are 505 hp at 6,200 rpm and 494 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm and the power curves trace perfectly smooth arcs. No bumps, no dips, nothing.

You might expect the difference between the two cars' results to be greater than the 99 hp we observed. Although this outcome suggests that one manufacturer is being a little less forthright about its numbers than the other, our resident engineers suspect it has more to do with how the two companies dial in the intercoolers during dyno testing.

Still very strange why it's shy of a lot of power.

[TGilb2007]

Yea but an ECU and headers are different...

Well.... duh. But, imagine the possibilities here. Just retuning the engine netting those types of gains is just VERY impressive. Just shows the craptastic tune that GM had to start with.

That, and start placing a better tune with headers, and imagine the gains then. Add in a smaller pully, and then think about it.

The GT-R is probably very similar (if they can crack the ECU for the GT-R). Im sure a retune of the ECU can net some serious gains, and add a turbo-back exhaust to that as well, and itll make some intense power. What Nissian is doing wrong though is that the trans is made of glass, and does NOT take to the abuse that the ZR-1's transmission will take, laugh about it over a few beers, and then ask for more (to a point of course).

As for comparing the ZR-1 to the GT-R, as stupid as some people think this comparison is, we all knew it was going to happen. Two flagship cars, big power numbers, and all that jazz, it was a matter of time.

Personally, the GT-R, as impressive as the numbers are, is a car that doesn't appeal to me as much as I thought it would. A combination of Nissians warrenty practices, the transmissions, and a lack of a traditional 6spd make the car unappealing to me. The ZR-1 on the other hand, is nearly bulletproof, can take a beating, and GM doesn't want people running scared if the drivers assists are off and something happens, makes me want one more.


And before we talk dollars and cents about the cars, I can't afford the toy versions of either of these cars, so lets not get into that.

[ndubz]

Well put^

[SovXietday]

GM tuned the ZR1 stupid rich from the factory, for obvious reasons of course. Keeps everything safe. So yes, if you lean it out a bit the car will wake up like woah.

The ZR1 recently put another 4 seconds of distance between itself and the GT-R at the ring though, just goes to show that it takes time for the drivers to get a good feel on how to drive the car. GT-R not so much, it helps so much and is so responsive it's fairly "easy" to drive for proffessionals. It's a car that the average enthusiast could probably get in and crank out some half decent times, the ZR1 will put that same enthusiast through hell lol.

And that's why I love the ZR1, it's car that doesn't act like a bitch when you get on it. :-P

[sean3]

If you're not impressed with the ZR1 then you probably never would have been. Like said they are complete different cars and they are both awesome. If you were given a ZR1 for free (and you're not allowed to sell/trade it for a GTR) I don't think you would complain about it being worse than a GTR. No one here would. The GTR is a marvel of technology and engineering and is a terrific value for its performance. The ZR1 is pure American brute force and raw power. A wild animal. Just because you prefer one over the other doesn't not mean the other a disappointment.

[OBEEWON]

Yea but an ECU and headers are different...

Nuh uh...

They both go next to the hemispherical piston.






















Vspec...

[Honduh]

As much as I love the previous skylines this one just does not appeal to me. Hands down I would take a zr1 over a new gtr.

[ndubz]

If you're not impressed with the ZR1 then you probably never would have been. Like said they are complete different cars and they are both awesome. If you were given a ZR1 for free (and you're not allowed to sell/trade it for a GTR) I don't think you would complain about it being worse than a GTR. No one here would. The GTR is a marvel of technology and engineering and is a terrific value for its performance. The ZR1 is pure American brute force and raw power. A wild animal. Just because you prefer one over the other doesn't not mean the other a disappointment.

Hence the reason why i said they are still both extremely incredible cars in my first post. Theres nothing wrong with the ZR1, i would just like to know why its drivetrain takes away soooooo much power. And if im not mistaken, the Z06 and the viper both only lose about 10% to the drivetrain. I just want to know why.

[babyzillap10]

Don't you have to be over 50 to own a vette. The GTR is a superior car from an engineering standpoint, much like japanese cars have been for years. Throw a Haltech ecu on the GTR and the Zr1 will be playing catch up. I hope for 103k it comes with a ferrari.

[S4toSTI]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZlGMX8G3B4

[babyzillap10]

Cool video...where are the turns? Considering the Zr1 is not the standard model of the corvette, the fair comparison is to the GTR V-SPEC. When the V-Spec GTR is released the ZR1 will not stand a chance around a track. It barely beats the standard GTR around a track, if it even does.

[cburwell]

So if u got a GTR, send it to COBB tuning, they will give it similar hp to the stock ZR1, and you will actually make more whp too. with an awd car!!! not to mention, the GTR even after being sent to COBB, is still a few G $tack$ less than the ZR1.

Nothing personal, but I hate when people do this! "Oh, if I just upgraded my turbo I would be a lot faster". It's the same for the people talking about the vspec version. That's not the case here. Both cars were compared as is and the ZR1 performed better.

As far as price, IIRC the base ZR1 is listed at around $115k. They will probably sell for more considering the $70K GT-R was selling for $100K+.

[babyzillap10]

Nothing personal, but I hate when people do this! "Oh, if I just upgraded my turbo I would be a lot faster". It's the same for the people talking about the vspec version. That's not the case here. Both cars were compared as is and the ZR1 performed better.

As far as price, IIRC the base ZR1 is listed at around $115k. They will probably sell for more considering the $70K GT-R was selling for $100K+.

If you buy a base model from a dealership you pay in the 70's. If you can't wait and buy one from a private seller you will pay 100k. I'm not convinced that the ZR1 can even beat the GTR in a "Real" race around a track. But YAYZ OMGZ Horsepower is everything. When the V-spec comes out in 09 the real competiton starts!

[Mercury]

In another area, you would get way more pussy with a ZR1 than an 80,000 Nissan.

[babyzillap10]

What area? The bingo hall...The GTR turns heads. The ZR1 is a Corvette.

[CleanNeon98]

What area? The bingo hall...The GTR turns heads. The ZR1 is a Corvette.
Whats wrong with a Corvette.
If you buy a base model from a dealership you pay in the 70's. If you can't wait and buy one from a private seller you will pay 100k. I'm not convinced that the ZR1 can even beat the GTR in a "Real" race around a track. But YAYZ OMGZ Horsepower is everything. When the V-spec comes out in 09 the real competiton starts!
As a matter of fact, Corvettes are great handling cars...:roll:

[2slowMX5]

Thats not disappointing, the ZR1 loosing more at the wheels then my car makes at the crank is disappointing... Ahh well.

[babyzillap10]

Whats wrong with a Corvette.

As a matter of fact, Corvettes are great handling cars...:roll:

Corvette's are great handling cars, but the GTR is a better handling car. There's nothing wrong with corvettes, but the GTR has much more of the WOW factor.

[SovXietday]

Corvette's are great handling cars, but the GTR is a better handling car. There's nothing wrong with corvettes, but the GTR has much more of the WOW factor.

Lol, yeah, WOW, did that stock 70K car just shatter it's trans!?

Please keep your opinions as opinions.

[ndubz]

Nothing personal, but I hate when people do this! "Oh, if I just upgraded my turbo I would be a lot faster". It's the same for the people talking about the vspec version. That's not the case here. Both cars were compared as is and the ZR1 performed better.

As far as price, IIRC the base ZR1 is listed at around $115k. They will probably sell for more considering the $70K GT-R was selling for $100K+.

But if u look at it from a real world perspective, then money IS everything. Especially when ur talking about speed. This test was stupid, because only 1 of those 3 cars may even come close to being in the same market as the ZR1. That is the GT2, at list price, even though they are actually selling for +- 300K. but the GTR is in a much lower price bracket, where corvette has a car called the Z06, but oh wait, the gtr has already sh*t all over it. so if u were to compare it to the ZR1, then u should bring it up to a similar price range with mods, or wait till the Vspec comes out. And a far as the ferrari goes, idk why the hell it was even in the test, because the ZR1 is like 1/4 the price. And Ferrari will NOT be losing any 599 customers to the vette, i promise u. (mostly cuz ull get 1000 tmes the pu$$y in the ferrari that u would in the vette). The cars they should have tested against it are, the Viper SRT10 ACR, Audi R8, the new direct injection Porsche 997 Carrera S, or the regular 911 turbo, the aston vantage V8, and the Mercedes SL65 AMG. Now that would've been a realistic test that the vette would've shown even brighter in.

[1000whpTSi]

20% power loss thru the drivetrain is pretty much normal.I've seen AWD auto trans cars lose a lot more.
Also,does'nt the Vette have a transaxle.I know they use to have the trans in the rear of the car integrating it with the rear diff.

Just to clear the transaxle thing up.Transmissions with an integrated differential are known as transaxles.For example,Honda Civics have a transaxle where as most RWD front engine cars have transmissions.

[babyzillap10]

Lol, yeah, WOW, did that stock 70K car just shatter it's trans!?

Please keep your opinions as opinions.

OMGZ WOW did GM just go out of business making the ZR1.

[S4toSTI]

This argument is totally destroyed by simply saying that it all comes down to driver. It doesn't matter what the car can do it matters how you can drive it and no one on this forum can drive any of these cars to 100% of the potential which means none of this really matters does it. And for everyone saying the zr1 gets beat in handling i think you should look at most motorsports on this planet and show me how many cars going around tracks every weekend are awd compared to rwd, yeah so i guess awd isn't preferred. I know the gtr is great and all but if you want a race car neither of these cars are for you, you want to go spend 185k on this http://www.theracersgroup.com/cars/car.php?id=63 . Anyway i am not gonna quote it but whoever said the gtr has more of a WOW factor yeah maybe to you but to most people a corvette looks like a much more expensive car then a gtr.

[babyzillap10]

You are right no one is buying either of these cars if they are hardcore into racing. There's no way to prove which car has more of a WOW factor, but i'd put money on the GTR. It looks much more of a supercar in my opinion.

[ndubz]

These arent race cars they are road cars, so stop talking about the track because it doesn't matter. They are both sweet, my point was that the ZR1 was losing an abnormal amount of power for a rwd car, and that the test shown was bias as hell. And id be hella surprised if anyone hear bought either of these cars in the next 5 yrs. (however, when im outta school for a couple years, a used GTR is deff on my list, aswell as an E92 M3, till then i'll be STiing it) And as far as American car companies go, well, we'll see how many of them still exist in a few years, since it has taken them 30+ years to figure out that they need to make more efficient cars, or bring their more efficient cars from europe over here. We are witnessing economic darwinism, And an escalade hybrid is NOT the answer. this is what happens when you let STUPID people run big companies. Porsche, on the other hand, has their Sh*t together, because they took advantage of stupid people, and wound up owning around 70% of Volkswagen. Toyota has also done well, but they have too many vag-mobiles, Please can we at least have the supra back already?

[babyzillap10]

Amen...

[CleanNeon98]

GTR nutswingers are a funny bunch.

[Evo8kid]

OMGZ WOW did GM just go out of business making the ZR1.

No, Corvette barely gets any funds from GM. They are almost a seperate corp. If GM goes under, there is a good chance corvette will still be around.

[SovXietday]

20% power loss thru the drivetrain is pretty much normal.I've seen AWD auto trans cars lose a lot more.
Also,does'nt the Vette have a transaxle.I know they use to have the trans in the rear of the car integrating it with the rear diff.

Just to clear the transaxle thing up.Transmissions with an integrated differential are known as transaxles.For example,Honda Civics have a transaxle where as most RWD front engine cars have transmissions.

No I don't think it's a transaxle, but I also am almost 100% positive it is not a standard driveshaft to rear diff to axles either.

These arent race cars they are road cars, so stop talking about the track because it doesn't matter.

Right.

So, in your opinion, which car drives better at 65mph in heavy traffic on the turnpike? Lol, yes, the track does matter when you are talking about performance cars. :roll:

[ndubz]

Ok, then i challenge u, mr redwheels, to go and find someone who owns either of these cars, or something similar, someone who hasn't regularly exceeded the highest national speedlimit in their regular driving on public roads. good luck... there are probly only a handful of them around, because why on earth would u buy a street car with 600+hp and a 200mph top speed, if u weren't going to exploit that potential. Idk if u know or not, but in the real world, the fact that doing something is illegal, doesnt stop people from doing it. Go on youtube sometime and search LP640 219. And u will see some ppl set a new top speed record for the Murc on PUBLIC ROADS. So yes the track can be nice, but most sh*t is actually done on the streets, and ya that is kind of a problem, but its the way things are. So................ your basically wrong bro.

[arkadyzv]

The ZR1 is still cheaper when you add 20k for another trans for the GTR. :-p

As far as looks, its an opinion, to Nissan fanboys, yeah maybe OMGZ GTR. To everyone else its meh, I've seen one live, and it only got a quick glance. If anything the ZR1 has way more road presense, big wheels, big ass fenders, fatties in the back. It screams I'mma rape youzzz, where the GTR to non-gran turismo player is "Hey Bob, is that the new Infiniti G35?"

Also the tranny issue, its retarded, how can you have a standard feature on a car that has a limit. Thats like hey you have factory power windows, but when you adjust them for the 11th time, they will fly off, blow up and kill babies.What about people buying them used, can you haggle down the price based on how many launches it has had? "Well sir, here's a mint 08 Skyline GTR, it has blistering 0-60 in 3.8s and a quarter mile in 11.xx performance for $60,000 and you can do that all 3 more times. You may replenish your performance for $20,000 more afterward and get at least 10 more chances."

I'll agree that these two cars have their differences but in the end they will still be compared to each other regardless of price. Its Japan's Godzilla vs America's Coolest Mullet.

And in the end a blown Chevy small block is well pretty damn hard to beat when it comes to straight line performance. GM's been doing it for 50+ years.

As far as the choice between the two, at least for me. I can appreciate what the GTR is, and technology behind it. But at the end, its Skynet on wheels controlled by Ahhhnold himself. Even a novice driver can hop in and pwn pwn pwn. Where the ZR1 is a ****ing beast, you have to respect it, learn to control, and it will reward you with the rape of others.IMO its more of a drivers car, that and it has 3 proper pedals and doesn't weight almost 2 tons.

[Evo8kid]

^ perfectly said

[CleanNeon98]

Ok, then i challenge u, mr redwheels, to go and find someone who owns either of these cars, or something similar, someone who hasn't regularly exceeded the highest national speedlimit in their regular driving on public roads. good luck... there are probly only a handful of them around, because why on earth would u buy a street car with 600+hp and a 200mph top speed, if u weren't going to exploit that potential. Idk if u know or not, but in the real world, the fact that doing something is illegal, doesnt stop people from doing it. Go on youtube sometime and search LP640 219. And u will see some ppl set a new top speed record for the Murc on PUBLIC ROADS. So yes the track can be nice, but most sh*t is actually done on the streets, and ya that is kind of a problem, but its the way things are. So................ your basically wrong bro.
Im going to sell my left leg and buy a GTR to commute at 150mph...seeing as I won't need it to drive the thing anyway :lol:

Its basically about track performance for either car because they cannot be pushed to the limit on the street, and the ZR1 is faster around the track, period, end of story. I know its hard to believe that an American car can handle, but get used to it.

[NJGOAT]

I owuld never personally buy either of those cars even if I had the money.

GTR - As I've said countless times, the car has no soul. It is as sterile as an operating room and IMO is built for people who enjoy playing Gran Turismo on their couch versus going out for a drive. Nissan's warranty and quality issues aside, the car is a technological masterpiece, but I would never want a car that any old schlub can drive to near perfection. What's the fun in that?

ZR-1 - I like Vette's, I even forgive the Cavalier quality interior given their performance potential. However, where as the C5/6 Z06 provided a good performance to dollar ratio for the cost, the ZR-1 doesn't come close. There isn't enough different about the car to justify the $50k premium over a standard LS3 Vette. Buy a regular Vette, add a supercharger, suspension, wheels/tires and brakes. Bingo, you have a ZR-1 and saved $25k+.

It is all rather a mute point though as every other expanded review from magazines and other auto sources peg both of these cars as inferior to the Viper ACR and the Porsche GT2.

I believe one of them summed it up by saying that the GT-R would be bought by Skyline fanboys, the ZR-1 would be bought by Vette fanboys, the Viper would be bought by Viper fanboys and the GT2 would be bought by the Porsche fanboys. While it's fun to compare these cars, they do not cannibalize each others sales and hence really don't compete except in magazines and on line.

However, if you had a blind driving test, they believed that the Porsche was the only complete car in the bunch. It may not be the fastest in a straight line or around a curve, but it is the best car on the road hands down. I tend to agree with them.

[SovXietday]

Ok, then i challenge u, mr redwheels, to go and find someone who owns either of these cars, or something similar, someone who hasn't regularly exceeded the highest national speedlimit in their regular driving on public roads. good luck... there are probly only a handful of them around, because why on earth would u buy a street car with 600+hp and a 200mph top speed, if u weren't going to exploit that potential. Idk if u know or not, but in the real world, the fact that doing something is illegal, doesnt stop people from doing it. Go on youtube sometime and search LP640 219. And u will see some ppl set a new top speed record for the Murc on PUBLIC ROADS. So yes the track can be nice, but most sh*t is actually done on the streets, and ya that is kind of a problem, but its the way things are. So................ your basically wrong bro.

Shut up, please?

You're arguing about which cars handle better blah blah blah and then tell me that they break top speed records on public roads. Seriously? You cannot get the performance out of a car on the street that you can on the track, so yes, track performance is everything when you're talking about the performance of performance vehicles.

I already told you why the car loses a lot of power through the rear wheels. The drivetrain is a big, beefy, forged monster ready to take on whatever someone wants to throw at it, that includes more power. The GTRs drivetrain is a proven joke. Looks are an opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that with a driver who knows the car the ZR1 will be much faster around any track than the GTR. It's just that most of these tests are done by people who get 10 laps in total with both cars, obviously the AWD finger flapper is going to be easier to drive fast than the lightweight 600rwtq 6 speed tire burner ZR1.

/discussion.

[ndubz]

Shut up, please?

You're arguing about which cars handle better blah blah blah and then tell me that they break top speed records on public roads. Seriously? You cannot get the performance out of a car on the street that you can on the track, so yes, track performance is everything when you're talking about the performance of performance vehicles.

I already told you why the car loses a lot of power through the rear wheels. The drivetrain is a big, beefy, forged monster ready to take on whatever someone wants to throw at it, that includes more power. The GTRs drivetrain is a proven joke. Looks are an opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that with a driver who knows the car the ZR1 will be much faster around any track than the GTR. It's just that most of these tests are done by people who get 10 laps in total with both cars, obviously the AWD finger flapper is going to be easier to drive fast than the lightweight 600rwtq 6 speed tire burner ZR1.

/discussion.

Ok here is some proof that u are wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq_5DEgSb5g Id pull him over if i were a cop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmNy-ajRV0U Idk how fast that was, but im willing to bet it was well over the posted speed limit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftAhdcmIHn8 Probly one of the most illegal things ive ever seen done on the road, He pretty much well surpassed the manufacturer's claimed top speed, and omg isn't he on the highway?!?!?! passing other cars at 200+?!?!?!?!?!

The track is nice when u can go there, but ur F*cking kidding urself if u dont think a cars potential can be exploited on the street. Its all about time and place.

[TGilb2007]

The track is nice when u can go there, but ur F*cking kidding urself if u dont think a cars potential can be exploited on the street. Its all about time and place.

The track is a great place to go when there is one availble, no sht. The cars potential CAN be shown on streets, but its absolutely, 100%, full blown, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt, stupid. The only time and place to really show what these cars are capable IS the track.


And someone bring a trans or a tow-truck for the GT-R.

[OBEEWON]

All of your mothers are shamed by your stupidity. You bring shame and degridation to the day you fell from your mothers cervix. It would be better that your fathers did not impregnate your mothers with such a waste of matter. The time would have been better served doing pushups or plucking the hairs of thier shoulders with rusty tweezers.

I have never seen such stupidity and raw uncut idiocy in one place at one time. I hope your children and your childrens children, and thier children, and thier dogs and cats hang thier heads in shame and chastise themselves with reeds day and night while wailing at the city gates in sacloth and smearing ashes on thier scalps. Have mercy on your retarded frontal lobes if they even exist.

[SovXietday]

All of your mothers are shamed by your stupidity. You bring shame and degridation to the day you fell from your mothers cervix. It would be better that your fathers did not impregnate your mothers with such a waste of matter. The time would have been better served doing pushups or plucking the hairs of thier shoulders with rusty tweezers.

I have never seen such stupidity and raw uncut idiocy in one place at one time. I hope your children and your childrens children, and thier children, and thier dogs and cats hang thier heads in shame and chastise themselves with reeds day and night while wailing at the city gates in sacloth and smearing ashes on thier scalps. Have mercy on your retarded frontal lobes if they even exist.

Is that from the Bible, hahahaha.

[ndubz]

Like i said, its all about time and place. u have to use some common sense. and ya i kno ur thinkin common sense would say to go to the track. like i said its nice to have when its there, but depending on where u go, it can be expensive and impractical, where as there are times when ur alone, with nobody aroud, on a great backroad, and its nice just to have a blast, not even necessarily at ur cars limit, just more than most people may push it. Also Im NOT talking about street racing, i do not personally street race. It is dangerous, and i choose not to involve other people if im being risque. But anyone who has a road legal performance car, has probly exploited their cars potential at least a few time on public streets. So in theory, the police should pull over anyone they see driving any type of really high performance car, because nobody would be driving a modded supra, or a Z06, or a lambo, etc. unless they were out for a joy ride of some sort. But that doesnt happen because the police need proof of wrong doing.

[CleanNeon98]

Like i said, its all about time and place. u have to use some common sense. and ya i kno ur thinkin common sense would say to go to the track. like i said its nice to have when its there, but depending on where u go, it can be expensive and impractical, where as there are times when ur alone, with nobody aroud, on a great backroad, and its nice just to have a blast, not even necessarily at ur cars limit, just more than most people may push it. Also Im NOT talking about street racing, i do not personally street race. It is dangerous, and i choose not to involve other people if im being risque. But anyone who has a road legal performance car, has probly exploited their cars potential at least a few time on public streets. So in theory, the police should pull over anyone they see driving any type of really high performance car, because nobody would be driving a modded supra, or a Z06, or a lambo, etc. unless they were out for a joy ride of some sort. But that doesnt happen because the police need proof of wrong doing.
But the ZR1 is still faster....

[461_SS]

The ZR1 is still cheaper when you add 20k for another trans for the GTR. :-p

As far as looks, its an opinion, to Nissan fanboys, yeah maybe OMGZ GTR. To everyone else its meh, I've seen one live, and it only got a quick glance. If anything the ZR1 has way more road presense, big wheels, big ass fenders, fatties in the back. It screams I'mma rape youzzz, where the GTR to non-gran turismo player is "Hey Bob, is that the new Infiniti G35?"

Also the tranny issue, its retarded, how can you have a standard feature on a car that has a limit. Thats like hey you have factory power windows, but when you adjust them for the 11th time, they will fly off, blow up and kill babies.What about people buying them used, can you haggle down the price based on how many launches it has had? "Well sir, here's a mint 08 Skyline GTR, it has blistering 0-60 in 3.8s and a quarter mile in 11.xx performance for $60,000 and you can do that all 3 more times. You may replenish your performance for $20,000 more afterward and get at least 10 more chances."

I'll agree that these two cars have their differences but in the end they will still be compared to each other regardless of price. Its Japan's Godzilla vs America's Coolest Mullet.

And in the end a blown Chevy small block is well pretty damn hard to beat when it comes to straight line performance. GM's been doing it for 50+ years.

As far as the choice between the two, at least for me. I can appreciate what the GTR is, and technology behind it. But at the end, its Skynet on wheels controlled by Ahhhnold himself. Even a novice driver can hop in and pwn pwn pwn. Where the ZR1 is a ****ing beast, you have to respect it, learn to control, and it will reward you with the rape of others.IMO its more of a drivers car, that and it has 3 proper pedals and doesn't weight almost 2 tons.

Nicely put. A+

[ndubz]

But the ZR1 is still faster....

Ya and a Bugatti Veyron is faster than an Evo X too. different class bro, both in price and performance. The Z06 is the car u compare to the GTR. Same price, same performance class. compare the ZR1 to the r8, the 911 turbo, the aston V8 vantage, but if u must compre the zr1 to the gtr, then u should take the price difference, and add that much in mods to the gtr. this argument is going in circles.

[ndubz]

ok. White flag. I just saw top gear where they drove the zr1 ctsv and srt8. It made me like the zr1 alot more. My argument about class comparison still stands tho.

[CleanNeon98]

You just don't get it...Edmunds compared the GTR and ZR1, and the ZR1 was clearly their winner...why is that so hard to comprehend, do you think the GTR is invincible and whenever someone says its not the best car you are going to flip a fit?

[ndubz]

No it is the nature of the test. comparing the gtr and the zr1 is like comparing a wrx to an Evo. or a gallardo to a 911 carrera they are in a different class. u should compare the STI to the Evo, the wrx to the ralliart, the 911 turbo to the gallardo, and the GTR to the ZO6. when nissan makes the vspec gtr, then compare that to the ZR1. u have to look at cars within their respective classes otherwise ur comparison is meaningless.

[97TurboDSM]

if they were in different classes the EXPERTS wouldnt be comparing them. stop making excuses for the GTR getting its ass kicked

[marshallpre1]

Many people have dynoed ZR1s @ 550+rwhp....

[ndubz]

if they were in different classes the EXPERTS wouldnt be comparing them. stop making excuses for the GTR getting its ass kicked

Ok i dont know how much u know about the corvette line so im going to explain it to u. there are 3 types of vettes.

The base model has a 6 liter v8 with 436bhp, it is in the $40k-55k range. and its in the performance class with the M3, carrera S, audi R8, aston v8 vantage, and Shelby GT500.

The Corvette Z06 has a 7 liter V8 with 505bhp, and is in the $65k-80k range. and it is in the performance class with the ferrari f430, the lambo gallardo (non lp560), porsche 911 turbo, viper srt-10, and the NISSAN GTR.

Lastly, the Corvette ZR-1 is the flagship of the corvette range. it has a supercharged 6.2 liter V8 with 638bhp, and is in the $110k-125k range. It is in the performance class with the porsche GT2, Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo, F430 scuderia, 599GTB, Lambo Murc LP640, lambo Gallardo LP560, Mercedes SLR Mclaren, Viper ACR, and will surely be in the sights of Nissan when they bring out their V-SPEC version of the GTR.

Also, the GTR and the Z06 cost the same, so that makes them even more competitive, because they may actually be fighting for customers. There is a round a $50k difference in price b/w the gtr and zr1. and idk about u, but i dont sh*t money. There is a very big difference in the financial situation of someone who can spend $70k on a car, and $120K on a car. And yes i realize that there is currently a price mark up on both these cars, but that will go down over time.

Class dissmissed...

[CleanNeon98]

Ok i dont know how much u know about the corvette line so im going to explain it to u. there are 3 types of vettes.

The base model has a 6 liter v8 with 436bhp, it is in the $40k-55k range. and its in the performance class with the M3, carrera S, audi R8, aston v8 vantage, and Shelby GT500.

The Corvette Z06 has a 7 liter V8 with 505bhp, and is in the $65k-80k range. and it is in the performance class with the ferrari f430, the lambo gallardo (non lp560), porsche 911 turbo, viper srt-10, and the NISSAN GTR.

Lastly, the Corvette ZR-1 is the flagship of the corvette range. it has a supercharged 6.2 liter V8 with 638bhp, and is in the $110k-125k range. It is in the performance class with the porsche GT2, Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo, F430 scuderia, 599GTB, Lambo Murc LP640, lambo Gallardo LP560, Mercedes SLR Mclaren, Viper ACR, and will surely be in the sights of Nissan when they bring out their V-SPEC version of the GTR.

Also, the GTR and the Z06 cost the same, so that makes them even more competitive, because they may actually be fighting for customers. There is a round a $50k difference in price b/w the gtr and zr1. and idk about u, but i dont sh*t money. There is a very big difference in the financial situation of someone who can spend $70k on a car, and $120K on a car. And yes i realize that there is currently a price mark up on both these cars, but that will go down over time.

Class dissmissed...
And none of this matters becuase they still compared the ZR1 and GTR, if Edmunds thought the Z06 and GTR were in the same class they would have compared those 2. :mad:

[NJGOAT]

Since when does anyone think Edmunds is an authority on all things automobile...

[CleanNeon98]

Since when does anyone think Edmunds is an authority on all things automobile...
I never said what he said was wrong, but hes pissing and moaning and groaning about this **** just because one car is faster than another car. The ZR1 is faster than the GTR, and thats final.

[97TurboDSM]

Ok i dont know how much u know about the corvette line so im going to explain it to u. there are 3 types of vettes.

The base model has a 6 liter v8 with 436bhp, it is in the $40k-55k range. and its in the performance class with the M3, carrera S, audi R8, aston v8 vantage, and Shelby GT500.

The Corvette Z06 has a 7 liter V8 with 505bhp, and is in the $65k-80k range. and it is in the performance class with the ferrari f430, the lambo gallardo (non lp560), porsche 911 turbo, viper srt-10, and the NISSAN GTR.

Lastly, the Corvette ZR-1 is the flagship of the corvette range. it has a supercharged 6.2 liter V8 with 638bhp, and is in the $110k-125k range. It is in the performance class with the porsche GT2, Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo, F430 scuderia, 599GTB, Lambo Murc LP640, lambo Gallardo LP560, Mercedes SLR Mclaren, Viper ACR, and will surely be in the sights of Nissan when they bring out their V-SPEC version of the GTR.

Also, the GTR and the Z06 cost the same, so that makes them even more competitive, because they may actually be fighting for customers. There is a round a $50k difference in price b/w the gtr and zr1. and idk about u, but i dont sh*t money. There is a very big difference in the financial situation of someone who can spend $70k on a car, and $120K on a car. And yes i realize that there is currently a price mark up on both these cars, but that will go down over time.

Class dissmissed...

Thanks for that, i didnt read any of it because I'm perfectly aware of the different makes of corvettes thank you very much. You don't seem to understand that if the ZR-1 and the GTR were not to be compared, then nobody would be comparing them. Get off the GTR's nuts already

[ndubz]

Thanks for that, i didnt read any of it because I'm perfectly aware of the different makes of corvettes thank you very much. You don't seem to understand that if the ZR-1 and the GTR were not to be compared, then nobody would be comparing them. Get off the GTR's nuts already

Both cars are absolutely awsome. but it IS an incorrect comparison. Yes the ZR-1 is faster, f*ckin obviously. But Edmunds deff had an agenda to make the vette come out on top for once, because the gtr had beat the Z06 in every other test. and Edmunds is deff not the best place for auto tests. i have already shown why it is a flawed comparison, so u all can take it or leave it. I have made my claims and have backed them up with legit info, so if u cant see that, then that is ur own problem. And if u disagree then i would like to see ur take on how the performance car market is structured. That, of course, is assuming that u even know enough about cars and the market to be able to put that type of thing together.

[SpEcRv9]

ive just come to terms with the fact that some people love the GT-R and will defend it till the end and some people love the ZR1 and will defend it to the end...whatever theyre both better cars than we have/have driven/probably ever will drive on a daily basis...its not even worth arguing about, the zr1 has been more impressive...

im sick of the posts in threads though, that say omg a GTR tranny broke, they are all weak and suck and blah blah...bottom line is you turn a saftey feature (more or less) off, you void your warranty, and risk damaging your transmission which you kinda need to go places, which has been done by many dealers before and not just nissan...****ty? yes. but too damn bad.

now...people that are bitching are the ones that cant afford the car, hate the car with a passion for some reason, or can afford the car...but didnt understand that just because you can afford the car doesnt mean you can afford to fix it if it breaks...the rest of the owners are rich dudes that probably dont care about warrantys...

i went onto the GTR owners club nagtroc or whatever, and there were less bitching threads about the GTR tranny there than there are here!, if the owners arent worried about it...why is everyone on tst?

[ndubz]

Well put, and for the record everyone, I like one and hate the other. I am a huge fan of them both. I just think that it is an improper and bias test, and that all cars should be compared within their respective classes.