What should i get next for my DSM?

[On Sale]

Ok here is a list of parts i already have. Just thought i would ask what you guys think i should get next.

3' Thermal R&D Catback
Extreme PSI Intake
1g BOV
Dejon Tool ICP
Turbo XS MBC
Autometer Boost Gauge


So what should i get next. Should i just say fock it and get a 16g, and finish the exhaust , and then get a logger and get it tuned.

[sisforsurfing]

I say finish up the exhaust stuff (downpipe, maybe O2 housing), then fuel pump, then 16G and tune. That'll be enough to take down the average pesky WRX-er. :lol:

[On Sale]

I say finish up the exhaust stuff (downpipe, maybe O2 housing), then fuel pump, then 16G and tune. That'll be enough to take down the average pesky WRX-er. :lol:

Yea thats what i was thinking, DP , get rid of the cat, then FP and 16g... ehehehe, christmas is almost near...

[koho2731]

I'd go with the DP your not going o see the full potental of the 16g with out a larger IC and bigger injectors 550+ you also need new IC pipes

[SexyDSM95]

Do you even have suspension????

With a 16g he is going to need the 16g install kit on a 2g since the 16g flips up while the T25 flips down. The kit would come with all the necessary piping/gaskets he would need. If you go with a 16g, then you really should consider mods to support it. You are going to heat soak just idling in your driveway with the stock SMIC. Your options here would be a Supra sidemount (more cutting yay!), Super sidemount, or FMIC.

You should be considering fuel delivery and supporting the fuel delivery with a pump and SAFC I/II so you are not running pig rich and some logging device. For a fuel pump I would recommend a Supra TT fuel pump (if you can find it for a good price of course), it's Denso OEM and a lot quieter then Walbro. But if you decide to go with the ever popular 255lph Walbro then I would suggest the wiring kit also so the annoying whine won't be as bad to your turn signals and rest of the car functions. As for injectors your stock 480cc should be fine for now, they are well known to have gotten DSMer's deep into the 12's without any problems.

You could also consider increasing flow by porting your exhaust manifold and getting a larger o2 housing. I would not go with the Evo 3 o2 housing for the fact that the flange does not match up well with aftermarket DP's so it will not create a proper seal, in turn, causing a leak. Either port your o2 housing (great design) or go with an internally dumped aftermarket. You really do not need an external dump since you would be having a full 3" exhaust so boost creeping would not be a big issue.

Other then that you definately need to start looking into tuning essentials. I say if you have an EPROM ECU, save the money and go for DSMlink. You can log/see knock and also be able to see dips in timing better then any other logger out there.

Other things to look into:
Better clutch
Possible flywheel
Wideband
Turbo Inlet Pipe
Rear-anti sway bar
FPR
Sway Bars
Gutting
3g Lifters (to help cure your tick tick tick)

After taking a look at your garage:
Good luck with that 6 bolt swap, I have no clue why you are swapping for something that has lower compression and heavier rods. And I hope you realize that if you do a 6 bolt in a 2g you are pretty much forced to buy DSMLink in order to work out all the misfires, CEL's, and random troubleshootings. IMHO I would research a 1g head swap (bigger TB, better flow, good for 500whp) while keeping the stock 7-bolt bottom end.

#1 rule for DSMers: If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Why go with 264/272 combo? If you are going with a 20g then you should be considering either FP2's or 272/272 do it once and do it right. And you realize that if you go with a 16g (points up), then go to a 20g (points down), you just spent $200+ for a kit that you are now going to have to uninstall (just something to think about). If you want to save yourself the $200+ then look into the Killer T28, have heard great things about this turbo and it's a simple installation/swap.

Why do you think you need motor mounts on an AWD? You are not going to have that bad of wheel hop problems compared to a FWD and if this is going to be a daily for you then it will be a very uncomfortable one.

UGH You made me type so much...if you need any other hints/tips go here:
2g Turbo Upgrade Path (http://dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/)

[Francesco]

look into the little things...

symbroski shift kit ; ) clutch? suspension? EMS?

[SexyDSM95]

look into the little things...

symbroski shift kit ; ) clutch? suspension? EMS?
EMS = little thing...? HAHAHHAHAHAHAH! $1,200 little thing

[2point4DSM]

I liked a lot of the things Sexy had to say although I would change a couple things.

Turbo DSMs have 450cc injectors.

Walbro 190 pump would be ideal. Anything bigger will over-run your stock fuel pressure regulator and cause all sorts of tuning problems even with a really good fue computer.

With a 190 pump, you can boost up to 22psi on the 16g with no problems.

Stock 2g IC have run into the 11s. Takes a lot more to get there and your car will be affected by the outside temps more but if you want you can actually wait to put that on.

So, a 16g would be the next best option. Considering the T25 on your car now is about to die because T25s don't last long in modded DSMs.

Don't even worry about porting, bigger IC pipes, etc. That sort of stuff doesn't make all that much difference.

[SexyDSM95]

I liked a lot of the things Sexy had to say although I would change a couple things.

Turbo DSMs have 450cc injectors.

Walbro 190 pump would be ideal. Anything bigger will over-run your stock fuel pressure regulator and cause all sorts of tuning problems even with a really good fue computer.

With a 190 pump, you can boost up to 22psi on the 16g with no problems.

Stock 2g IC have run into the 11s. Takes a lot more to get there and your car will be affected by the outside temps more but if you want you can actually wait to put that on.

So, a 16g would be the next best option. Considering the T25 on your car now is about to die because T25s don't last long in modded DSMs.

Don't even worry about porting, bigger IC pipes, etc. That sort of stuff doesn't make all that much difference.

I have a 255lph pump on a 14B and have no issues with tuning what so ever. With the stock IC piping on a 16g I would have to disagree with also, ask anyone who has/had a 16g on the stock sidemount and they can tell you the heat soak issues. Hell, I had heat soak issues with the 14B and stock IC.

I bought my DSM modded with the T25 and it lasted, the only reason I replaced it with the 14B was because I got a great deal for the turbo itself. There are DSMer's who are known for 12's with the T25 and great tuning.

I am not getting how you are saying porting is pointless. By porting the O2 sensor housing and/or wastegate is an often recommended cure for boost creep. This uncontrollable rise in intake pressure is often caused by the turbo pushing more air than can be possibly be dumped out of the wastegate and downpipe, despite the wastegate being completely open.

[Francesco]

EMS = little thing...? HAHAHHAHAHAHAH! $1,200 little thing

for me it would be a little thing...if i had a gsx god knows what i would have done to it...i know a Shep tranny would be on my list of things to get along with possibly a Howell built head.

[koho2731]

My friends 93 lazer RS AWD that I work on pretty much every weekend has a 16g with 450 injectors(we think), a walbro 255, stock SMIC, soft pipes and FPR and doesn't have heat soak issuses unless he boost above 17psi. He also has a 3" GM MAS and trans and doesn't have any tuning issues either

[On Sale]

Sandra, long post :( , but here is my response...

The reason im going with a 6bolt is im going to automotive school. So im going to bring in the motor, and as i progress through school, im going to build it at school. They already told me i can, and encouraged me to do it. So , why not build a motor, and only have to pay for parts?? Second, i wanna have a car, i only have 1 car, so if i buy a 6bolt on the side, i can build it and let my 7bolt go to hell. Plus i dont want any crank problems.

My transmission is almost gone, so i need a new tranny. Im looking into a shep tranny. I dont really think i can do anything else to my car until i get a tranny, so... yea. I dont want to spend all the money on this tranny when im gonna need a new one for my 6bolt (i think u have to use the 6bolt tranny, im almost positive, but im unsure.) So i dont know what to do there, maybe i should just buy a tranny out of a junkyard or someone on dsmtuners , or phillydsm.

I dont want massive amounts of HP. I would be happy with 300awhp. I hope to accomplish that with a 16g and supported mods (FMIC,FP,DSMlink etc.)


I have a few questions, maybe some of you can clear up.

1. Does the Evo manifold bolt up to a 6 or 7 bolt block? If so, would it be wise to use it along with the 16g?
2. Point me in the direction for a rebuild kit for a 6bolt motor. Im looking to get aftermarket parts for the rebuild.
3. Does anyone know someone with a seized or no longer running 6bolt block/head? For around 150$?

O, and i was going to go with EVO injectors when i decide to get them. My mom works at a mitsu dealership, so i can get them cheeeaaapppp.

EDIT: O and the reason i need motor mounts, is because my car jumps real bad when i left off the gas, in high or mid rpms, like it doesnt just jump once, it jumps 4 or 5 times, and it feels really rough. So, i think its the motor mounts, and was told by 2 other people that they where bad. I really need to just rebuild my whole engine bay.

And my plan for suspension is a set of coilovers, i am undecided yet on what set i want.

[SexyDSM95]

My friends 93 lazer RS AWD that I work on pretty much every weekend has a 16g with 450 injectors(we think), a walbro 255, stock SMIC, soft pipes and FPR and doesn't have heat soak issuses unless he boost above 17psi. He also has a 3" GM MAS and trans and doesn't have any tuning issues either

A lot of people who run this set up will boost over 17psi, it's a crime not to :mrgreen: . You also have to remember that your friend has a 1g, we are talking about 2g's. If 2g's ran a hacked MAS/MAFT then we are asking for a whole butt load of trouble.

Plus i dont want any crank problems. With your model car, you may see less of crank walk issues because of the lower mileage and later year. If your car is destined to crankwalk then it will no matter what you do

My transmission is almost gone, so i need a new tranny. Im looking into a shep tranny. I dont really think i can do anything else to my car until i get a tranny, so... yea. That's a good $1200 for the tranny rebuild itself minus shipping. Why spend all this money if you are not looking for the power?

I dont want massive amounts of HP. I would be happy with 300awhp. I hope to accomplish that with a 16g and supported mods (FMIC,FP,DSMlink etc.) If you are going to spend all this money on a 6 bolt block, rebuild kit, DSMlink, shep tranny, etc. then you should be looking at more then 300 whp. It's rape if you are sitting there wanting less out of a set up destined and proven to do more.

I have a few questions, maybe some of you can clear up.

1. Does the Evo manifold bolt up to a 6 or 7 bolt block? If so, would it be wise to use it along with the 16g? Evo mani will bolt right up, IMHO I would stick with a ported 2g manifold. Will flow just fine, I know of DSMer's who are on the Holset 60-1 and 20gs who run ported 2g manifolds.
2. Point me in the direction for a rebuild kit for a 6bolt motor. Im looking to get aftermarket parts for the rebuild. JNZTuning, DSMotorsports, pick a DSM shop they will have it.

O, and i was going to go with EVO injectors when i decide to get them. My mom works at a mitsu dealership, so i can get them cheeeaaapppp. Thanks for checking prices for me from two months ago! j/k

EDIT: O and the reason i need motor mounts, is because my car jumps real bad when i left off the gas, in high or mid rpms, like it doesnt just jump once, it jumps 4 or 5 times, and it feels really rough. So, i think its the motor mounts, and was told by 2 other people that they where bad. I really need to just rebuild my whole engine bay. Again, if you are going to sit here and spend all this money re-doing your engine bay/internals then your goal should be wanting more then 300 whp.

And my plan for suspension is a set of coilovers, i am undecided yet on what set i want. Tein, Koni, Skink2, and Eibach all have good coilover kits.

Either way good luck with it.

[koho2731]

A lot of people who run this set up will boost over 17psi, it's a crime not to :mrgreen: . You also have to remember that your friend has a 1g, we are talking about 2g's. If 2g's ran a hacked MAS/MAFT then we are asking for a whole butt load of trouble.

:o yea I forgot the whole compression thing kinda makes a diff

[2point4DSM]

Anything bigger than a Walbro 190 or the orig. Buschur upgraded Denso pump will flow more fuel than the OEM fpr can bleed back to the tank. Ask any of the older DSMrs or more experienced tuners.

Then what happens is your fuel pressure rises and falls not only due to boost/vacuum but also dependent on rpm and gears. At lower gears your fuel pressure will take a dip at higher rpms compared to taller gears.

If you could log fuel pressure it would become obvious. If you could see knock it would baffle you.

Btw, 2g trannies bolt right up to 6 bolt motors. But, 6 bolt trannies will not bolt up to a 2g.

And 1g, 2g, and Evo manifolds are interchangeable. Evo o2 housings are a bit differenct and might work with your exhaust setup... and might not.

I'm not saying the smallish 2g IC will not heat soak. My point is adding a 16g on your car will give you more power than sticking a bigger IC on your car. Especially, during this time of the year. So if you were looking for more power and only had $600 I would go with a turbo.

And even if your turbo still spins... if boost is dropping a lot and or it can't hold a certain amount of boost for your setup then it is a goner. And the T25 is very prone to dying because when boost is dropping it means your overspinning it....

[2point4DSM]

Sexy,
You argue with me about DSMs like my wife argues with me about directions....

You guys kill me....

When you disagree with me I'm right 99.9% of the time. haha.

[SexyDSM95]

Sexy,
You argue with me about DSMs like my wife argues with me about directions....

You guys kill me....

When you disagree with me I'm right 99.9% of the time. haha.
Not in my case....any information or prognosis you have given me has not happened or my problem turned out to be something completely different.

[Francesco]

Sandra, long post :( , but here is my response...

The reason im going with a 6bolt is im going to automotive school. So im going to bring in the motor, and as i progress through school, im going to build it at school. They already told me i can, and encouraged me to do it. So , why not build a motor, and only have to pay for parts?? Second, i wanna have a car, i only have 1 car, so if i buy a 6bolt on the side, i can build it and let my 7bolt go to hell. Plus i dont want any crank problems.


good move man. 7 bolt crank walk issues suck. a 6 bolt can walk also, but only few have done it...anyway, you going with a 4 bolt rear?

[yugotdonkey]

I think your next mod should be a logger. Before you start doin big boy things like turbo swaps and fuel management you are going to want to monitor your timing advance, knock, fuel trims and whatnot. Get a palm pilot off ebay for 50 bux or so and download mmcd, or get dsmlink with an eprom ecu. Tuning is important for dsms, just gotta have something to go by when you start modding.

[2point4DSM]

Not in my case....any information or prognosis you have given me has not happened or my problem turned out to be something completely different.

That's what you think.

And who has ever heard of a person blowing up an injector... only you can do stuff like that.

So, I admit I'm not 100% right, lol.

[2point4DSM]

I think your next mod should be a logger.

This is a good point. But back in the day, people were running low 11's on turbos bigger than a 20g with no ability to log. Loggers have only appeared very recently in the history of DSMs.

And the 16g has been played out so often that it is very easy to predict how it will react with given mods.

[SexyDSM95]

I think your next mod should be a logger. Before you start doin big boy things like turbo swaps and fuel management you are going to want to monitor your timing advance, knock, fuel trims and whatnot. Get a palm pilot off ebay for 50 bux or so and download mmcd, or get dsmlink with an eprom ecu. Tuning is important for dsms, just gotta have something to go by when you start modding.
MMCD only works with 1g's and you can't log knock with 2g loggers unfortunately. As for loggers by palm there is one kit that comes with a Palm for like $165. I am using another type of logging software that goes on my laptop for $100. I love it.

[On Sale]

scratch those idea's , looks like the dsm is gone :(... i dont even want to start looking for a new car. im just sick of everything, i dont know what to do.

[SexyDSM95]

John, cars come and go. No matter how much you loved it and sometimes hated it it's just a material item. You will get back on track in that area, your life on the other hand is another obstacle that you have to get through.

[On Sale]

thanks sandra.. so yea, if for some unknown reason, they dont total my car ( i dont even think i want it back, i see frame damage) .... i think , er the tranny broke when i got hit... it didnt go click click click before?!?!

O, and my T25 was moved, it was bent and the IC pipe came off and so did the intake pipe, the whole turbo is unaligned, which means something bent... i have motor damage, this sucks donkey balls.

[SexyDSM95]

thanks sandra.. so yea, if for some unknown reason, they dont total my car ( i dont even think i want it back, i see frame damage) .... i think , er the tranny broke when i got hit... it didnt go click click click before?!?!

O, and my T25 was moved, it was bent and the IC pipe came off and so did the intake pipe, the whole turbo is unaligned, which means something bent... i have motor damage, this sucks donkey balls.
Well look on the bright side....NOW you have your excuse for a 6 bolt swap :mrgreen:

[On Sale]

Well look on the bright side....NOW you have your excuse for a 6 bolt swap :mrgreen:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

hahahahaahahahah , vvvvveeeerrrryy ffuunnnyyyyy sandra

[92talonTSI]

John, cars come and go. No matter how much you loved it and sometimes hated it it's just a material item. You will get back on track in that area, your life on the other hand is another obstacle that you have to get through.i absoloutly loved my talon... i loved the looks i got pulling into our out of places when people heard my BOV :[ im so bummed out about bending the valves, material it might be, but its one thing in my life that made me really happy and not it might be gone for good.

[olsookie]

finish your cat back, extrude honed 1st gen intake manifold w/ 1st gen tb. huge difference!!

[SexyDSM95]

finish your cat back, extrude honed 1st gen intake manifold w/ 1st gen tb. huge difference!!
Wow....if you only knew the car is wrecked

[SpendOne]

I had a 255 pump in when I did my b16g and I had all kinds of tuning issue. I couldnt lean it out to save my life and thats when I bought my fpr setup. Car ran 50x's better after the FPR went in.

[On Sale]

I had a 255 pump in when I did my b16g and I had all kinds of tuning issue. I couldnt lean it out to save my life and thats when I bought my fpr setup. Car ran 50x's better after the FPR went in.


WOW and you win the award for the most disgusting avatar EV4R!!! ewwww, i guess she enjoys a nice trip down the dirty road... haha.

But yea, so now i got a 1g, and im unsure what to do next, check my garage for my current mods.