welded diff opinions...

[twastheglow]

I'm looking for opinions on doing this to my car (or at least picking an extra diff up and getting it welded). I wanted to get some "pro's" and "con's" from people who actually have one/driven one on a rwd car, especially an S13. It would be on a summer dd car.

[thefro526]

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/207490-my-s13-welded-differential-review.html

Thats my in depth 3 page(?) review from when I first got my welded diff. Long story short, weld it and after 3 weeks you wont even know it's there.

[Keeper1343]

right.... until you snap a axle and you fly off the road. Even on drag cars its dangerous. leave it to the pros

[OPZ]

Good read but I think I'm going to stick with a VLSD since I have to make so many low speed turns. Or maybe I'll do a welded if I can get one cheap enough that it won't matter...oh well, I got 4 months to think about it...haha

[omgjacki]

Yeah I think that's the only annoying thing about it; the low speed turns.

[Renegade_]

right.... until you snap a axle and you fly off the road. Even on drag cars its dangerous. leave it to the pros

Have you ever owned an S chassis? People do this thing all the time and until you get into the high 300s, you aren't breaking ****... I hear all this axle snapping garbage from a lot of people, but I know a bunch of people around the 370-380whp range on stock axles and they beat the living hell out of their cars... Not one broke yet.

Get somebody who knows how to weld diffs (it isn't as easy as just throwing some big tack welds in there, you have to temper the metal), throw it in and learn to drive with it. I want one but my viscous will have to do for now.

[omgjacki]

He's a Honda guy... they're used to **** breaking.

[Renegade_]

He's a Honda guy... they're used to **** breaking.
Axle breakage seems to be common on cars other than subarus/evos and nissans... I know on a friends 86 his stock axles will strip @ like 200+whp... First time he mentioned it to me I didn't believe him but it's true.

If this is going to be a summer only car - go for it. Welded diff + rain = so much fun. You can do third gear drifts like it's nothing sliding around and never go above half throttle or 4k rpm. I don't have one but I have driven a welded car.

[thefro526]

right.... until you snap a axle and you fly off the road. Even on drag cars its dangerous. leave it to the pros

Lol what are you talking about? I've had a welded diff in my car and I know numerous people who have welded diffs that are pushing 250-300hp and they're fine. Maybe on crappy honda but not on 240sx's. I've drifted my car, done 100+ clutch kicks, chirped 2nd at least once or twice a day, done standing burnouts, donuts and a whole bunch of other stuff and my axles aren't broken yet. And odds are if you break an axle it's because you have way to much power.

Good read but I think I'm going to stick with a VLSD since I have to make so many low speed turns. Or maybe I'll do a welded if I can get one cheap enough that it won't matter...oh well, I got 4 months to think about it...haha

If you already have a VLSD you can buy a shim from nissan that you put against the Viscous coupling unit that puts a pre-load on it so it locks under less force. Usually the rule is, 1 shim will return a worn out viscous to stock and 2 shims will lock it like a welded. The shims themselves are like 7 or 8 dollars apiece but you have to take the entire diff apart to shim it.

Yeah I think that's the only annoying thing about it; the low speed turns.

you get use to it after a while, it's not too bad. Ask Reese about it, he'll know better than I do.

Axle breakage seems to be common on cars other than subarus/evos and nissans... I know on a friends 86 his stock axles will strip @ like 200+whp... First time he mentioned it to me I didn't believe him but it's true.

If this is going to be a summer only car - go for it. Welded diff + rain = so much fun. You can do third gear drifts like it's nothing sliding around and never go above half throttle or 4k rpm. I don't have one but I have driven a welded car.

Welded drifts in the rain are fun, I've been at full lock at 3k in 2nd gear before and that was fun.

[frosti108]

i run a welded in my s13, AND my s12. both drifted, beat on, and daily driven. not only do they give you the full time 2wd that you dream of for mad tyte doriftoz, a welded is actually a huge difference for handling. IMO, getting welded makes your car handle a lot more like a go kart. much more predictable, and sticks to the road better. also, no more getting stuck, ever.

parking and turning are awesome. the inside wheel carries the same speed as the outside wheel. this makes anything from chirps to a constant squeel, or sometimes even a little bit of a hop. ive grown to love it.

only downfall is, sometimes youll get clunks and feeling of the 2 rear tires trying to fight eachother for traction. people that dont know will be scared and ask why your car maka funny noiz

also, you really wont need an ebrake anymore once your welded. when you park, you can just turn the steering wheel and the car wont roll because the rear wheels dont want to turn at different speeds

[sean3]

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/207490-my-s13-welded-differential-review.html

Thats my in depth 3 page(?) review from when I first got my welded diff. Long story short, weld it and after 3 weeks you wont even know it's there.

We all know its there when you leave the meets :mrgreen:

[OPZ]

I want one but my viscous will have to do for now.

I'll trade you my open for your VLSD. Straight up. hahahahaha


And fro, I'm rocking an open sadly...I'm ganna be turbo on an open here soon, that should make for a smokey single tire.

[Ace]

Get a real diff. By the time you're done pulling the diff, properly welding it, and then re assembling it, it will end up costing the same as a used KAAZ or Nismo unit.

They work, yes. But that's like saying putting in a OBX clutch is 'ok' too, as 'it works'.

Everyone says there 240 is a summer fun toy. Everyone who says that I'm sure has been out in ****ty weather, rain, or similar situation. Having driven 2-3 welded cars, many more diff cars, and a few open, I rate the welded last in terms of daily driving, real grip running, and livability. The only place the welded diff excels, is enabling an underpowered/setup car to break the tires loose and drift around industrial parks.

[Renegade_]

Get a real diff. By the time you're done pulling the diff, properly welding it, and then re assembling it, it will end up costing the same as a used KAAZ or Nismo unit.
I was quoted 60$ if I bring the pumpkin sealed to someone. All I have to do is take it out of the car.

[240_fun]

Yeh man
Brought it to WILL
I cleaned it out with carb cleaner at his shop (I offered to do it)
and he welded it.
Daily Drove it all summer, beat on it, took it to englishtown, Loved it
People look at you funny when u take slow turns or park but hey
our cars are ment to be looked at, and you get used to it
When i drove my dads car it felt so weird turning and not hopping
The feeling of having both wheels locked is actually reaaaalllly nice
I drove it in the rain a few times and as long as ur not speeding and going reasonably slow like any normal person should in the rain you should be fine

[twastheglow]

I'm so torn on this. I guess for $60-$80 to have it welded, it would be worth picking up an extra differential and swapping it out and trying it myself. The alternative for me is buying a Carbonetic LSD (since that's the one I want)...which I don't have the money for right now.

[240_fun]

Yeh obvs a real LSD would be better but not all of us have the 1000 to drop on that
Just pick up an extra open diff to weld
JDMWILL did an excellent job on mine
although i know hes wayyy out of ur way
Just make sure whoever does it has done it before and know what they are doing
cuz if the weld were to break it would be very bad

[frosti108]

Get a real diff. By the time you're done pulling the diff, properly welding it, and then re assembling it, it will end up costing the same as a used KAAZ or Nismo unit.

LOL are you serious? it costs 40 to get a rear welded. how much does it cost for a KAAZ or NISMO units? you have to drop the diff, take it apart and refill it either way.

They work, yes. But that's like saying putting in a OBX clutch is 'ok' too, as 'it works'.

Everyone says there 240 is a summer fun toy. Everyone who says that I'm sure has been out in ****ty weather, rain, or similar situation. Having driven 2-3 welded cars, many more diff cars, and a few open, I rate the welded last in terms of daily driving, real grip running, and livability. The only place the welded diff excels, is enabling an underpowered/setup car to break the tires loose and drift around industrial parks.

thats your opinion. i agree that if you dont like chirping around a parking lot, a welded is not for you. but besides that, they are GREAT for grip driving. going from open to welded on both of my cars was nothing but huge improvement in handling in both cases. driving in the rain is just great too. as long as your not clutch kicking and going WOT all over the place, youll be fine. its actually better for traction in snow and rain. you just have to be responsible. and fyi, running a welded rear doesnt help underpowered cars break the tires loose. open rear is good for that since it allows only one to spin. welded allows your car to use both wheels to plant any power the car makes at all time. its called consistancy. something you wont find in open and VLSD rears. now if you have hundreds of dollars burning a hole in your pocket, go buy a nice mechanical.

[Ace]

I was quoted 60$ if I bring the pumpkin sealed to someone. All I have to do is take it out of the car.

Time = Money.

I guess having a family business (a truck repair shop), i tend to think in the total time down aspect. For me, ripping it all out, tearing it apart, driving to have it welded (well, I welded my own, thats beside), and then putting it all back together is equal to that of just getting a used kaaz/nismo/etc diff and installing it.

It's like not chaning a throwout bearing or pilot bushing when doing a clutch job, or not resurfacing/rolocing the surfaces when doing a clutch job, or not checking the oil when the hoods up, etc etc. To me, If you're there doing the job, do it correctly.

I'm so torn on this. I guess for $60-$80 to have it welded, it would be worth picking up an extra differential and swapping it out and trying it myself. The alternative for me is buying a Carbonetic LSD (since that's the one I want)...which I don't have the money for right now.

Yes, do not ruin your known good one. Get a used one, weld that.


thats your opinion. i agree that if you dont like chirping around a parking lot, a welded is not for you. but besides that, they are GREAT for grip driving.

I welded my own diff ages ago. It made for *the most* annoying twitchyness I could have ever imagined. I guess in the grand scheme that could be the byproduct of a proper track alignment, combined with the diff, but even on the street it made for very uninspired driving. I'd really hate to see how a welded diff would react with 4.60's in the back! Talk about hairy!

I don't mind a bit of oversteer on/in certain areas, but it doesn't make for very 'fast/quick' driving momentum wise, at the end of the day. I'd rather scrub the fronts a tad at high speed, than be attempting at controlling some wild tire spin anyday.

its actually better for traction in snow and rain. you just have to be responsible.

I disagree. Downshift hard by accident with a welded diff, and you'll be sideways sooner than you can spell it. Same with decel. With a diff, those two potential situations are avoided.

Again, I've had welded diffs in trucks, cars, and real deal lockers/mechanical diffs too. The premise remains the same.

fyi, running a welded rear doesnt help underpowered cars break the tires loose. open rear is good for that since it allows only one to spin. welded allows your car to use both wheels to plant any power the car makes at all time. its called consistancy. something you wont find in open and VLSD rears. now if you have hundreds of dollars burning a hole in your pocket, go buy a nice mechanical. [/COLOR][/I][/B]

Not sure. I had much more fun hanging the rear out with my ka and welded diff than anything. Even in a fun doing donuts matter.

Not to sound snobbish, but have you tried a real diff and a welded? Again, I have (first hand, and in many other applications).

[frosti108]

what do u mean by real diff? ive driven open, stock vlsd, and welded. vlsd is probly best for your average comfort minded car enthusiast. IMO welded is best performance wise.

i dont usually race around in the snow though.


and i agree, downshift too hard and u will get some hang time, but again, its totally in control. its a bit of a give and take. if you want the performance gains of the welded, you will have to be a little cautious while driving in slippery conditions.

also as i look back, another reason i chose to get welded was for the drag strip. a good condition vlsd could do most everything a welded could do, except squat and launch hard.

[cyron]

If you already have a VLSD you can buy a shim from nissan that you put against the Viscous coupling unit that puts a pre-load on it so it locks under less force.


Do you have a part number, where to look, or what to ask for specifically...

If anyone needs an open diff internals to play with I'll donate it...
http://www.cyrondesign.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=167&g2_serialNumber=1

[RyanG]

we have our shop S13 with a welded diff. easy as pie. we also have another spare diff that we are willing to part with :D its also welded

[92sileighty]

i wouldn't get one if the car is your dd, i drove a 240 with one and i didn't like it, kinda felt uncertain to me, like i didn't know what it would do exactly around turns, if the topography around your way is a lil rough then a welded is a no no

[thefro526]

Do you have a part number, where to look, or what to ask for specifically...

If anyone needs an open diff internals to play with I'll donate it...
http://www.cyrondesign.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=167&g2_serialNumber=1

when I get home I'll post a link to the write up that has the part number and link

[thefro526]

http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/200226-shimming-r200-j30-vlsd.html

thats the write up for shimming a VLSD

[Keeper1343]

whats with the honda comments???? I simply stated that when the axle breaks, you will go flying into A: The wall or B: The Trees...... I am not saying that it is going to happen but it def can tho... So think about it. I really don't give a **** what u do cause its not my life or my problem... Good luck with the desicion tho

[frosti108]

yes but, nissan axles dont break ... :bigeek:

[omgjacki]

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone breaking an axle on their 240.

[JasterM5]

Axle breakage seems to be common on cars other than subarus/evos and nissans... I know on a friends 86 his stock axles will strip @ like 200+whp... First time he mentioned it to me I didn't believe him but it's true.


I've snapped 3 sets of rear axles in my Subaru. Never snapped a Nissan axle.


I had a welded diff in my M30 but the welds broke and I'm back to open. :cry:
The welded was fine, you just have to get used to the clunking at low speed turns, like when parking or in a parking lot.

This time I got my old VLSD out and used the above link to shim it. Cost me a total of $20 and everyone says its just like welding. once the actual diff is out of the pumpkin it takes 10min to shim. I havent reinstalled the diff yet but I'll let you know once I do.

[Renegade_]

I've snapped 3 sets of rear axles in my Subaru. Never snapped a Nissan axle.
Your car was a special case :cool:

I meant on stock driveline...

[thefro526]

whats with the honda comments???? I simply stated that when the axle breaks, you will go flying into A: The wall or B: The Trees...... I am not saying that it is going to happen but it def can tho... So think about it. I really don't give a **** what u do cause its not my life or my problem... Good luck with the desicion
tho

In front wheel drive cars axle breakage is much more common because they are under more load because the wheels are also been used for turning and the axles are designed for lesser HP. Usually when axles break in 240's the car usually is still drivable it's just strange... The reason Front Wheel Drive cars, not just hondas, tend to have more catastrophic failures is because your wheels are being used for propulsion as well as steering so when an axle breaks all of the power instantly is transfered to the side that's not broken which can cause the car to be uncontrollable and steer in random directions.

I've snapped 3 sets of rear axles in my Subaru. Never snapped a Nissan axle.


I had a welded diff in my M30 but the welds broke and I'm back to open. :cry:
The welded was fine, you just have to get used to the clunking at low speed turns, like when parking or in a parking lot.

This time I got my old VLSD out and used the above link to shim it. Cost me a total of $20 and everyone says its just like welding. once the actual diff is out of the pumpkin it takes 10min to shim. I havent reinstalled the diff yet but I'll let you know once I do.

Did Will shim your diff? I was at his shop and he said something about shimming a viscous recently but I can't remember who it was...

[MANLYmiata]

My diff is welded in my miataaaaa. Full spoollll

[omgjacki]

Dude... is your Miata seriously pink?

[MANLYmiata]

Dude... is your Miata seriously pink?

haterade?

[omgjacki]

No, I'm really asking.

[MANLYmiata]

No, I'm really asking.

yea it is, you like it?

[omgjacki]

Not my first [pink] choice, I would have definitely gone brighter, but it's cute. LOL

[frosti108]

lol pinks cool as long as your running a welded! you need a cage too tho :)

[Keeper1343]

In front wheel drive cars axle breakage is much more common because they are under more load because the wheels are also been used for turning and the axles are designed for lesser HP. Usually when axles break in 240's the car usually is still drivable it's just strange... The reason Front Wheel Drive cars, not just hondas, tend to have more catastrophic failures is because your wheels are being used for propulsion as well as steering so when an axle breaks all of the power instantly is transfered to the side that's not broken which can cause the car to be uncontrollable and steer in random directions.



Did Will shim your diff? I was at his shop and he said something about shimming a viscous recently but I can't remember who it was...


I understand why front wheel drive axles snap alot... Like u said cause its a dual task for them..... but unless the diff is welded, you won't fly into a wal or anything if your axle snaps. It will just stop moving lol. Unless you have LSD in which case it will just be a crutch to get back home lol. I understand that nissan axles are hard to break but im just saying it can happen. And when/if it happens it will suck donkey dick big time.


And Jacki..... shut up cause you just got a car. lol. Build something then talk. (waiting for a text from u later ha)

[Renegade_]

I understand why front wheel drive axles snap alot... Like u said cause its a dual task for them..... but unless the diff is welded, you won't fly into a wal or anything if your axle snaps...
Stop.

They won't. Period - this isn't a honda. I know plenty of people with almost hundreds and hundreds of clutch kicks on stock axles at over 150k and none have broken.

You realize that in the middle of a slide the stress on the drivetrain is minimal comparatively? Someone is getting a welded diff to drift, not to road race.

[Keeper1343]

Stop.

They won't. Period - this isn't a honda. I know plenty of people with almost hundreds and hundreds of clutch kicks on stock axles at over 150k and none have broken.

You realize that in the middle of a slide the stress on the drivetrain is minimal comparatively? Someone is getting a welded diff to drift, not to road race.


people don't just do it for drifting... they also drag race with them. And if you tell me this car won't be drag racing then i call Bull ****. You act like nissans are gods gift to the automotive industry, you stop. lol. Stop acting like it can never happen. If that were the case, nissan would have not made extra axles because the stock ones never break right? I am just stating the facts that it "CAN!!!!" happen.

[TurboTagTeam]

Differnt cars have differnt strong points. OEM 240 axels just dont break. They're very beefy in comparison to a Honda B series axel or a WRX axel. I'm making 400whp. I'm running a OEM Silvia rear end. VLSD and JDM 5 bolt axels. If anything was to break....it def would of broke allready. I'v put my car through it's paces and it's holding strong. If anything is going to break, it's going to be the U-Joints in the stock driveshaft. THats the weakest point in a 240's drivetrain.

I did think about swapping out my VLSD for a simple welded diff if I got another car to daily drive. But for a daily D, there's no way I could get used to the horrible clunking and the skirting around tight corners. I cant say that I'v driven a car with a welded diff, but I'v driven muscle cars with spools in them and its a complete pain in the ass. I'd much rather just spend the money on a proper rear end for my car that i drive all day.

[thefro526]

I did think about swapping out my VLSD for a simple welded diff if I got another car to daily drive. But for a daily D, there's no way I could get used to the horrible clunking and the skirting around tight corners. I cant say that I'v driven a car with a welded diff, but I'v driven muscle cars with spools in them and its a complete pain in the ass. I'd much rather just spend the money on a proper rear end for my car that i drive all day.

What about shimming your VLSD? You'd have something close to a 2-way

[gcliff]

welded diffs forlife on project cars, not daily driving, lol hate to love the rain,, all my nissans had welded diffs, almost got me into a couple accidents.. ive broken both axles on my 240 because they were just old i mean they both snappped, i only had a ka it the car,, the guy who owned it before had a badass sr he drove it like he stole and has tickets to show,, but still never broke axles while drifting,, have broke 2 welded diffs though, either because they were dry or leaking,, i broke one on a way to an event that suckked so bad.. ruined my day... but +1 for welded diffs over lsd,, i know exactly when its going to lock up all time..

[Mercury]

Isn't it dangerous? I was thinking about welding the rear dif on my samurai

[Keeper1343]

It is dangerous. Don't let any of these guys tell you different. A welded diff can send you off the road. PERIOD. Don't let these guys tell u that it is safe. I would never weld the diff on a street car. If it was a track car with all the safety equipment and everything else, fine.

[gcliff]

sure it wasnt the safest but it was all i had on my daily slider,, you just have to know how to drive and you and your car's limits,, like never hitting the gas thru a turn lol little things like that.. kept me alive living in south florida near miami where it rains every other day. welded > lsd, hands down for me,... just my opinion,

[TurboTagTeam]

It is dangerous. Don't let any of these guys tell you different. A welded diff can send you off the road. PERIOD. Don't let these guys tell u that it is safe. I would never weld the diff on a street car. If it was a track car with all the safety equipment and everything else, fine.

Have you ever driven a RWD car with a welded diff?

[Keeper1343]

you don't need to drive one in order to know that its unsafe... Can u daily drive it? sure you can. I am not saying that it can't be done or that the LSD is better. I am simply stating "SAFER". And if someone wants to argue that fact, they are retarded. End of story.

[CleanNeon98]

I don't know about welded diffs but I've always seen it as a half-assed attempt to drift, and I would rather pay money for a real LSD than weld one for cheap and have that thought in my head...if I had some cheap car I just beat up on and didn't care much about, different story.

[gcliff]

half ass attempt to drift... i understand what your saying,, it is a cheap.. but do you have personal experience with them? drifting with a welded,, not drag,, there are pros who drift with welded diffs nowadays,, even if i had the money to build a crazy project, i would still use welded,,,

[Keeper1343]

they are fine on the race tracks.... not on the street.

[TurboTagTeam]

they are fine on the race tracks.... not on the street.

A 2-way diff is very much like a welded diff or a car with a spool in it except it just never disengages. My M3 had a 2-way LSD in it. Yes, it was a little hairy in the rain. But as long as you posses even a little car controll....you are more than safe. A welded diff is more anoying than anything from what I know and have talked to people who drive with them.

[Keeper1343]

I am not saying anything about how effective they are on cars. Cause i know they are realy good for certain things. But people were asking if it is safe. And the truth is, not really. Because at any point during your racing, a axle could snap. Other than that, they are great for certain applications

[TurboTagTeam]

OMG....were not talking about a ****ing honda with toothpicks for axels. IT IS VERY UNLIKELY YOU WILL BREAK AN AXLE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Keeper1343]

OMG....were not talking about a ****ing honda with toothpicks for axels. IT IS VERY UNLIKELY YOU WILL BREAK AN AXLE!!!!!!!!!!!

And what happens if you do when your racing all out? Come on.... you can say it. I know.

[DriftNasty180sx]

WELD IT AND FORGET IT! i weld all the diffs on all Four of my 240sx and never had a problem. My Daily has a welded and i have driven it for a year and a half , i am so used to it that i can park and drive like it was never there. TRUST me bro i drive my car like i stole it and the race car does 350 whp never broke the axles or nothing.

welds diffs + never lifting = awesomeness!

[Renegade_]

And what happens if you do when your racing all out? Come on.... you can say it. I know.
Dude. Drop it - 240's don't break axles with any reasonable frequency for it to be the deciding factor in deciding to weld a diff in an S chassis.

[Keeper1343]

u guys are just never hearing the point... I am simply saying its not the safest way... Did i say they suck? Hell no. Are they good for alot of things, hell yea

[omgjacki]

And Jacki..... shut up cause you just got a car. lol. Build something then talk. (waiting for a text from u later ha)

Yeah, I just saw this. Relax. You don't even know.

WELD IT AND FORGET IT! i weld all the diffs on all Four of my 240sx and never had a problem. My Daily has a welded and i have driven it for a year and a half , i am so used to it that i can park and drive like it was never there. TRUST me bro i drive my car like i stole it and the race car does 350 whp never broke the axles or nothing.

welds diffs + never lifting = awesomeness!

To add to what Reese said, I've driven 240s with open diffs, welded diffs, and even VLSD. I see no problem with welded diffs and to me, the VLSD is a waste of money. I don't even notice the welded. Just be careful you don't snap an axle. :roll:

[twastheglow]

To add to what Reese said, I've driven 240s with open diffs, welded diffs, and even VLSD. I see no problem with welded diffs and to me, the VLSD is a waste of money. I don't even notice the welded. Just be careful you don't snap an axle. :roll:

This coming from the 18 year old whom has driven her first car twice. LOL Now that the authority on the matter has spoken we can just close up shop.


/thread!

[omgjacki]

Hey shut up! Just because I've only driven my car a limited number of times has nothing to do with the other 240s I've driven.

[twastheglow]

Hey shut up! Just because I've only driven my car a limited number of times has nothing to do with the other 240s I've driven.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA lol

[frosti108]

u guys are just never hearing the point... I am simply saying its not the safest way... Did i say they suck? Hell no. Are they good for alot of things, hell yea

lol get out of this thread already

This coming from the 18 year old whom has driven her first car twice. LOL Now that the authority on the matter has spoken we can just close up shop.


/thread!

LOL


jacki = :cyberguy:

[Instigator1225]

lol gotta love lincon lockers.

[RC1488]

There is no right or wrong answer for this question. It all depends on what your car is going to be doing. If its straight line drags, then welded is the way to go. If its your daily driver LSD is the way to go. If its autocross/road racing LSD with Intelligent stability systems is best. If your talking drifting, then again welded or LSD is what you want. Again its all about what you are doing with your car :)

Also, about this axle breaking issue....knowing your basic mechanics is one thing, but what makes a true race mechanic is knowing your math, science, and over all engineering. A true mechanic would calculate the stress force put on the axle from a welded diff to know the exact breaking point and thus make corrections as needed in either the axle alloy properties or axle diameter. This is crucial for the higher HP cars that are seeing so much torque to their stock axles.

[thefro526]

There is no right or wrong answer for this question. It all depends on what your car is going to be doing. If its straight line drags, then welded is the way to go. If its your daily driver LSD is the way to go. If its autocross/road racing LSD with Intelligent stability systems is best. If your talking drifting, then again welded or LSD is what you want. Again its all about what you are doing with your car :)

Also, about this axle breaking issue....knowing your basic mechanics is one thing, but what makes a true race mechanic is knowing your math, science, and over all engineering. A true mechanic would calculate the stress force put on the axle from a welded diff to know the exact breaking point and thus make corrections as needed in either the axle alloy properties or axle diameter. This is crucial for the higher HP cars that are seeing so much torque to their stock axles.

The big thing with the whole debate in this thread was that people started to talk about welded diffs in cars that weren't 240sx's. We were originally talking about our experiences with welded diffs in 240sx's and other RWD cars and then someone came in and started to talk about welded diffs in FWD cars which is a totally different universe.

As far as 240sx's, s13 and s14 included, much of the rear end is the same if not very similar to that of a Z32 300zx which means that it's rated for in excess of 300hp. Most people don't have more than that in their cars so a welded diff is a very viable option for DD and Spirited driving. When you go in excess of 300hp/300tq then I would inspect the axles and the remainder of the driveline for any signs of stress or wear.

In the end a welded diff and a 2-way LSD act essentially the same way under on throttle situations except a Welded diff is much more predictable because it's always locked so you'll never have to worry about the diff locking/unlocking on you.

Honestly for and S13 and S14 unless you really have the money to spend and can warrant the need for a good 2 way or 1.5 way diff you should go with a Welded or Shimmed VLSD. Both the Welded and Shimmed VLSD will give you the ability to lock up your rear end under power for less that $100 for a welded and less that $400 for a VLSD

BTW, I kinda am a Mechanical Engineer so take that for what it's worth :wink:

[RC1488]

BTW, I kinda am a Mechanical Engineer so take that for what it's worth :wink:

haha unfortunately that doesnt go far for me. Im holding a few classes teaching Mechanical and aeronautical engineers the concepts of the combustion engine, suspension, and thermal and fluid dynamics, etc.

But what you said makes sense :)

[thefro526]

haha unfortunately that doesnt go far for me. Im holding a few classes teaching Mechanical and aeronautical engineers the concepts of the combustion engine, suspension, and thermal and fluid dynamics, etc.

But what you said makes sense :)

Haha that's awesome. Sorry if I came off as arrogant but I'm tired of random people who have no clue about how things work and why things respond the way they do posting up in this thread. Btw, where do you teach?

[RC1488]

Haha that's awesome. Sorry if I came off as arrogant but I'm tired of random people who have no clue about how things work and why things respond the way they do posting up in this thread. Btw, where do you teach?

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. We have an autoshop their that is open up to students and the public. We also use it to hold seminars...I mean what better place to learn than on an actual engine in an autoshop :) Better than books any day! And no worries :) All is good!

[Keeper1343]

The big thing with the whole debate in this thread was that people started to talk about welded diffs in cars that weren't 240sx's. We were originally talking about our experiences with welded diffs in 240sx's and other RWD cars and then someone came in and started to talk about welded diffs in FWD cars which is a totally different universe.

As far as 240sx's, s13 and s14 included, much of the rear end is the same if not very similar to that of a Z32 300zx which means that it's rated for in excess of 300hp. Most people don't have more than that in their cars so a welded diff is a very viable option for DD and Spirited driving. When you go in excess of 300hp/300tq then I would inspect the axles and the remainder of the driveline for any signs of stress or wear.

In the end a welded diff and a 2-way LSD act essentially the same way under on throttle situations except a Welded diff is much more predictable because it's always locked so you'll never have to worry about the diff locking/unlocking on you.

Honestly for and S13 and S14 unless you really have the money to spend and can warrant the need for a good 2 way or 1.5 way diff you should go with a Welded or Shimmed VLSD. Both the Welded and Shimmed VLSD will give you the ability to lock up your rear end under power for less that $100 for a welded and less that $400 for a VLSD

BTW, I kinda am a Mechanical Engineer so take that for what it's worth :wink:

Not one person brought up FWD cars. All the nissan fan boys assumed i only knew about hondas. When in fact welded diff's are common sense. The only thing that was being debated was it safety for the street. There is absolutely no reason to have one on the street. Cause your not suppose to be sliding around on the street. Like i said before. An axle "CAN" break. Not will break. "CAN" break. ANd when it breaks on the street during your drag race (if your gonna slide on the street, your gonna race on the street too) your going to loose control and we will have another "RIP" thread. You don't need to be an engineer to know that either.

[ho1ywars]

Not one person brought up FWD cars. All the nissan fan boys assumed i only knew about hondas. When in fact welded diff's are common sense. The only thing that was being debated was it safety for the street. There is absolutely no reason to have one on the street. Cause your not suppose to be sliding around on the street. Like i said before. An axle "CAN" break. Not will break. "CAN" break. ANd when it breaks on the street during your drag race (if your gonna slide on the street, your gonna race on the street too) your going to loose control and we will have another "RIP" thread. You don't need to be an engineer to know that either.

if an axle breaks in a 240, or any multi linked rear suspension car for the most part., i highly doubt it would cause the driver to loose control of the vehicle because of a snapped axle. it will probably just make a bunch of noise flopping around slapping the suspension components. Our rear ends are not liek the old chevy rear where when an axle snaps, your wheel eventually walks away from the car.

[TurboTagTeam]

Not one person brought up FWD cars. All the nissan fan boys assumed i only knew about hondas. When in fact welded diff's are common sense. The only thing that was being debated was it safety for the street. There is absolutely no reason to have one on the street. Cause your not suppose to be sliding around on the street. Like i said before. An axle "CAN" break. Not will break. "CAN" break. ANd when it breaks on the street during your drag race (if your gonna slide on the street, your gonna race on the street too) your going to loose control and we will have another "RIP" thread. You don't need to be an engineer to know that either.

Dude....STOP

It's NOT DANGEROUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You snap an axel and ur back to an open diff car. This in NO WAY would cause a dangerous situation.

[Keeper1343]

If you snap an axle on a solid diff, all the power suddenly all goes to one wheel and forces the car to turn hard in one direction. I was talking to a friend about the nissan axles setup as well and he said the same as you guys that the axles are really strong and hard to snap. But I have had axles fail for no reason at all (not in a nissan but still) . He did however agree with being able to lose control if it does happen during a WOT run. And like many of you have said, its not a big deal when your drifting. Only when your dragging.

[TurboTagTeam]

If you snap an axle on a solid diff, all the power suddenly all goes to one wheel and forces the car to turn hard in one direction. I was talking to a friend about the nissan axles setup as well and he said the same as you guys that the axles are really strong and hard to snap. But I have had axles fail for no reason at all (not in a nissan but still) . He did however agree with being able to lose control if it does happen during a WOT run. And like many of you have said, its not a big deal when your drifting. Only when your dragging.

There is THE SAME stress on axel with a welded diff or a LSD diff when it's locked and goin in a straight line. The only differnce in a corner would be the inbility of the inner wheel to spin at a differnt speed than the outer wheel. Thus putting excess stress on the axel. BUT...that stress is certainly not enough to break it. At least with 240's.

[ScubaSteve]

BTW, I kinda am a Mechanical Engineer so take that for what it's worth :wink:

That's funny because you said in the s chassis cruise thread that you kinda have to be off the road by 12... and I think it was mentioned that you were 17. So are you 17, an engineer, or a 17 y.o engineer?

[Renegade_]

I think keeper is speaking in general, whereas TTT is talking about mid drift....

If your going in a straight line and the axle breaks you'll go in the direction of the axle that is still connected, but mid-drift it won't matter. Inertia will carry you and nothing will really pull you out of the slide... you'll just have 1 smokey wheel.

If your going in a straight line, hear the BANG of an axle breaking and you are still on the gas... well your an idiot.

If your mid-slide and an axle breaks the attitude of the car might change, but the inertia will keep the car moving and worst case scenario you'll start to understeer. Then its all about recovery.

In short, if someone can weld a mean diff, chances of that diff breaking is minimal. Nissan axles are strong and normally wont break. **** can happen... yes.

On another note, who here has shimmed a viscous?

[OPZ]

I'm tired of reading about snapped axles. Someone just submit that **** to mythbusters and have them see whats up. They'll do it.

[Keeper1343]

I'm tired of reading about snapped axles. Someone just submit that **** to mythbusters and have them see whats up. They'll do it.

Thats great!!!!...

TTT.... im not talking about drifting. I'm talking about dragging. Because the original post was about a street car using one. And lets be honest, your gonna drag on the street, not just drift. If he was using this car stricly for track use i wouldn't be in here stating my case.


EDIT--- I submitted it to mythbusters haha

[thefro526]

That's funny because you said in the s chassis cruise thread that you and I think it was mentioned that you were 17. So are you 17, an engineer, or a 17 y.o engineer?

Technically speaking, I have no degree in mechanical engineering. At the same time I work as a mechanical engineer at a company that modifies shipping containers. You do not have have a degree or be any specific age to be qualified to be an engineer. A degree just makes it easier to get a job later on and most learn valuable skills in College. That is why I said I kinda am a Mechanical Engineer, some don't consider me to be one because I don't have a degree, others consider me to be one because my job title is "Mechanical Engineer" and I get payed to that job. But that was totally irrelevant to this thread.


Back on topic, Welded diffs are awesome and very rarely break. Renegade_ I believe JasterM5 has a shimmed viscous in his car so you might want to PM him and ask. If not, I think JDMWill knows how to do them so you could PM him too.

[OMGshawn]

I love my welded diff. Slides soooo nice

[phantazm]

i have a dif with an s14 cover on it if you need a dif to weld. you just need to swap the covers and it'll drop right on. pm me if interested

[Lucky 13]

I understand that drifting is for show and is not the fastest way to get around a race track, when was the last time you saw F1 cars drifting around track unless they were about to crash or showing off? but wouldn't a welded diff make your car push/under steer until the back end broke loose and you drift loosing massive amounts of forward momentum? I guess it's just between function and form, if your trying to corner faster, it should hurt you, but if your trying to drift for show, it should do the trick. Also the size/type of the tires would contribute to the life/death of the axle. Skinny tires won't get traction, and thus won't load the diff very much, but MT/ET's would be a different story.

[RC1488]

I guess it's just between function and form

:iagree:

[nrgotenk]

So who tried shimming VLSD?
I'm thinking about doing one after winter, while I save up for a 2-way...

on topic though...
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/160048-welded-differential-worth.html

[thefro526]

So who tried shimming VLSD?
I'm thinking about doing one after winter, while I save up for a 2-way...

on topic though...
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/160048-welded-differential-worth.html

I thnk I'm gonna be trying it too in a few months because I'm gonna be runnning a q45/z32 rear end and the only way to run it to use the OEM q45 vlsd

[JasterM5]

OOH, i forgot to update. :mrgreen:

I shimmed my VLSD and its like a welded. I put 2 extra shims and like I said it acts just like a welded. I'm happy with it for now. Only cost me $20.

I'll eventually same up for a real 2-way but I like this for now.

[frosti108]

OOH, i forgot to update. :mrgreen:

I shimmed my VLSD and its like a welded. I put 2 extra shims and like I said it acts just like a welded. I'm happy with it for now. Only cost me $20.

I'll eventually same up for a real 2-way but I like this for now.

does it chirp in parking lots?