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05OCsrt-4
09-28-2008, 12:02 PM
so to start this off, i hate working for people, hate taking orders and making "the man" all the money. so i found a nice 3 bay shop for around $2000 a month lease or i can buy it. it'd be automotive repair and such. I'm just wondering with the economy the way it is, should I stick to my current "corporate" job and wait until the economy bounces back or take the risk at going into business for my self? i'll add more later when I have a chance

Scapegoat
09-28-2008, 12:08 PM
i'd wait and see what happens with the economy and the bail out

teh DIRT
09-28-2008, 12:14 PM
i say go for it, i rent a shop (large garage, no lifts :() and definitely enjoy it plus can make a good profit out of it.

TROLL
09-28-2008, 12:40 PM
but pete doesnt do it as his primary income at all... an important detail.

i think its a really big undertaking to open a shop especially when it will be your primary income and you have a family to support. it could flourish, but it might not... and if it doesnt it could be really hard to get back into something else right now.

jdmwill
09-28-2008, 01:02 PM
take it from me don't do it at least not yet.

read my thread on how we got scammed by a equipment company.
http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59700

then figure the economy that we are in right now.

teh DIRT
09-28-2008, 02:07 PM
yeah just PM'd him, definitely not my primary income.

CleanNeon98
09-28-2008, 02:20 PM
Right now IMO is the worst time to make any serious moves of that kind. Nothing is stable, and you don't know what will happen. I support your idea of working for yourself, but wait it out at least 3-4 more months until things stabilize out.

Besides which, you may have a very hard time getting approved for loans right now, at my dealership we had to turn down 3 people for financing yesterday that we would have been able to approve at decent rates before this whole malarchy started.

Just my 2 cents though, I plan to be a business owner in time as well, and if I were you, I would sit tight for the meantime.

redline
09-28-2008, 03:18 PM
I say go for it, owning a business and real estate is some of the best things you can do for yourself. First, I would ask is there a demand in your area? How much overhead per month compared to potential profits. Any hook-ups with advertising? It really can go either way right now and I think it really depends on the competition around your area. Offer services that your competitors don't. maybe throw in some PDR and detailing?

zerioustt
09-28-2008, 05:07 PM
i'd wait and see what happens with the economy and the bail out

Right now IMO is the worst time to make any serious moves of that kind. Nothing is stable, and you don't know what will happen. I support your idea of working for yourself, but wait it out at least 3-4 more months until things stabilize out.

Besides which, you may have a very hard time getting approved for loans right now, at my dealership we had to turn down 3 people for financing yesterday that we would have been able to approve at decent rates before this whole malarchy started.

Just my 2 cents though, I plan to be a business owner in time as well, and if I were you, I would sit tight for the meantime.

half of the corporations that make up the dow jones were started during a recession(disney, hp, microsoft all started in bad economies). competition is less because of the fear of failure. unemployment is on the rise so you can hire people for less which is more in your pocket. real estate is cheap atm. also you and other people starting businesses create more jobs which boost the economy.


I say go for it, owning a business and real estate is some of the best things you can do for yourself. First, I would ask is there a demand in your area? How much overhead per month compared to potential profits. Any hook-ups with advertising? It really can go either way right now and I think it really depends on the competition around your area. Offer services that your competitors don't. maybe throw in some PDR and detailing?


smart man...

kennwrx
09-28-2008, 07:17 PM
I say go for it. just do the research, I started my print shop with nothing in my pocket and after 7 years sold it for quit a profit and the guy that bought it is still in business. its all in who you hire and for what and the demand for your service

CleanNeon98
09-28-2008, 07:19 PM
half of the corporations that make up the dow jones were started during a recession(disney, hp, microsoft all started in bad economies). competition is less because of the fear of failure. unemployment is on the rise so you can hire people for less which is more in your pocket. real estate is cheap atm. also you and other people starting businesses create more jobs which boost the economy.

Didn't think of it that way, good points. I tend to usually play defensive so thats where my arguments came from.

zerioustt
09-28-2008, 07:30 PM
Didn't think of it that way, good points. I tend to usually play defensive so thats where my arguments came from.


always look at all angles..and research research research.

CleanNeon98
09-28-2008, 07:35 PM
always look at all angles..and research research research.
I suppose I should play a bit more offensive with my career. Im learning little by little by watching how we do things at work, its a small business so at one point or another, I'm working on any given aspect of it. Just seeing how business went down the gutter compared to when I started puts me in a spot to give the advice that I did.

zerioustt
09-28-2008, 07:45 PM
yeah but its a car dealership...he wants to fix cars. its cheaper to fix cars than buy new ones. mechanics will always be needed...just takes a very good person to keep a shop running.

Evo8kid
09-28-2008, 08:04 PM
i say do it, and then hire me

05OCsrt-4
09-28-2008, 08:10 PM
i say do it, and then hire me

I'd start by doing a lot by myself, i have 4-5 years experience fixing/diagnosing cars. and during those years i have a lots of service writer experience because the place I worked at for 2 1/2 years I wrote and contacted customers myself 20% of the time when our shop manager was busy. but i will 100% keep you in mind if i go through with this idea and it flourishes.

zerioustt
09-28-2008, 08:13 PM
I'd start by doing a lot by myself, i have 4-5 years experience fixing/diagnosing cars. and during those years i have a lots of service writer experience because the place I worked at for 2 1/2 years I wrote and contacted customers myself 20% of the time when our shop manager was busy. but i will 100% keep you in mind if i go through with this idea and it flourishes.

also keep me in mind for my brilliant business points...discount work will suffice.

Girly VR-4
09-28-2008, 08:23 PM
I think just starting out, that's too much. You need to start off in a smaller space, with a lot less overhead. To profit $2k a month, when you JUST start, is a lot. Then yuo need to figure in electricity, gas (you're going to need some heat), phone bills, water (if you have a bathroom, etc), tools, equipment, cable/internet (if you plan to run that there, you can usually get it along with your phone line). Zoning approval, registering the business, etc, etc.

It's not so easy as just moving in and starting a business.

In all honesty, I think you're jumping in head-first without really thinking it through, and realizing how much you need to PROFIT per month to keep the doors open.

Where is all of your business going to come from? Are you going to advertise? Where and how? Do you know how much advertising costs? What will be the most COST EFFECTIVE way to advertise? Do you have money to front for parts? or will you ask the customers to cover the parts cost up front? Do you have a book of receipts for repair work with your business letterhead? A business bank account? credit card processing machine/contract? (you need a business tax ID, etc for that), and everyone expects to pay with credit cards these days.

Can you CONFIDENTLY pull in over 5k profit per month?

I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but how much automotive repair experience do you have? Are you willing to work 7 days a week, 14-20 hours a day?


Just some food for thought from my personal experience, and helping my boyfriend restructure his business. It's a lot.

If you have any questions, or if I can help at all, please feel free to PM me. I'm more than happy to help, and give advice from my experience.

-Em

05OCsrt-4
09-28-2008, 08:28 PM
I think just starting out, that's too much. You need to start off in a smaller space, with a lot less overhead. To profit $2k a month, when you JUST start, is a lot. Then yuo need to figure in electricity, gas (you're going to need some heat), phone bills, water (if you have a bathroom, etc), tools, equipment, cable/internet (if you plan to run that there, you can usually get it along with your phone line). Zoning approval, registering the business, etc, etc.

It's not so easy as just moving in and starting a business.

In all honesty, I think you're jumping in head-first without really thinking it through, and realizing how much you need to PROFIT per month to keep the doors open.

Where is all of your business going to come from? Are you going to advertise? Where and how? Do you know how much advertising costs? What will be the most COST EFFECTIVE way to advertise? Do you have money to front for parts? or will you ask the customers to cover the parts cost up front? Do you have a book of receipts for repair work with your business letterhead? A business bank account? credit card processing machine/contract? (you need a business tax ID, etc for that), and everyone expects to pay with credit cards these days.

Can you CONFIDENTLY pull in over 5k profit per month?

I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but how much automotive repair experience do you have? Are you willing to work 7 days a week, 14-20 hours a day?


Just some food for thought from my personal experience, and helping my boyfriend restructure his business. It's a lot.

If you have any questions, or if I can help at all, please feel free to PM me. I'm more than happy to help, and give advice from my experience.

-Em

i already work 65 hours a week now so the working part isn't a problem, i'm sitting down with a few other automotive repair owners that I know and discussing with them their costs and all that fun stuff, so i'll have more updates later on in the week.

Girly VR-4
09-28-2008, 08:34 PM
i already work 65 hours a week now so the working part isn't a problem, i'm sitting down with a few other automotive repair owners that I know and discussing with them their costs and all that fun stuff, so i'll have more updates later on in the week.

Good to hear :) Figure out what your month to month costs are, then almost double it, and that's what you'll be spending every month :lol:

Like I said, if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I've been helping him run his business for the last 3 years or so, and it's grown leaps and bounds, and that's when the bills REALLY start piling up. Just be careful :) And good luck.

noclutch
09-29-2008, 05:53 AM
It's difficult to sustain a business in this economy let alone start a new one. Now would be the worst time to commit to a minimum of $2000 per month. Start way, way smaller. There's gotta be a smaller shop for alot less money then that. After you get in and get a reputation, then you could start thinking about a bigger place.

Girly VR-4
09-29-2008, 10:35 AM
It's difficult to sustain a business in this economy let alone start a new one. Now would be the worst time to commit to a minimum of $2000 per month. Start way, way smaller. There's gotta be a smaller shop for alot less money then that. After you get in and get a reputation, then you could start thinking about a bigger place.

There are a LOT of spaces that are a LOT cheaper, for about the same space, or more. Keep looking, and don't jump on the first place you see. Search craigslist. I came across a LOT of good potential shop spaces back when we were considering moving the business. And a lot of them are around $1500 or less for a very reasonable amount of space/storage.

dragonfly2k3
09-29-2008, 02:30 PM
make sure to have atleast 1 lift. I dont know a whole lot about running a business but ill give some pointers from a customer perspective.
1. organization - i would NEVER leave my car at a shop that is covered in parts/tools
2. customer service - if you say you're going to call, call. Please speak proper english
3. honesty - dont ever assume your customers dont know anything about cars, please dont try to lie to them or over charge them
4. morales - i once had a shop charge me 60 bucks for each time they pulled my car into a bay. Even though it was there less than 20 minutes total, they charged me 120 because they pulled it back out and they forgot to tighten the clamp. I got boned out of 60 bucks due to their mistake. I never went back, and tell everyone i talk to not to go there.

dragonfly2k3
09-29-2008, 02:31 PM
oh yeah, and speed. changing an axle doesnt take 5 days, even the dumbest of customers know that. If you're going to be back up, inform them of that ahead of time.

redline
09-29-2008, 02:47 PM
It's difficult to sustain a business in this economy let alone start a new one. Now would be the worst time to commit to a minimum of $2000 per month. Start way, way smaller. There's gotta be a smaller shop for alot less money then that. After you get in and get a reputation, then you could start thinking about a bigger place.

I am sure you allready know this but appearances are everything. The better the place looks the more money it is going to cost. Take CBRD in York, PA for example. Now there is a man that knows how to sell a product. Follow there trends and customer service and you my freind will have a shop that WINS! If you are going to do it, do it right. I am sure there is support for small business loans out there somewhere to help you get started. I plan to do the same when I retire.

noclutch
09-29-2008, 03:29 PM
I agree but it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun spending $2K per month rent, paying utilities, paying advertising, buying tools/lifts etc... And not having any customers. $3000+ off the top every month can make alot of people go broke in a hurry. Thats like 100+ oil changes :)

I'm just speaking from experience as I've owned a small business for quite some time now. The slow times aren't too bad when you have very little overhead. But a slow week can kill you if you have alot. Starting as small as possible and building a reputation from there is the safest way to go.

CBRD had a reputation before he opened shop

zerioustt
09-29-2008, 03:33 PM
It's difficult to sustain a business in this economy let alone start a new one.


dont know if you read any of the other posts but half of the 30 corporations were started during bad economies. do a little research before you give bad advice.

noclutch
09-29-2008, 03:35 PM
Haha, I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.

zerioustt
09-29-2008, 03:39 PM
Haha, I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.

if you did you come with a little more than an opinion..

here since you missed the post

half of the corporations that make up the dow jones were started during a recession(disney, hp, microsoft all started in bad economies). competition is less because of the fear of failure. unemployment is on the rise so you can hire people for less which is more in your pocket. real estate is cheap atm. also you and other people starting businesses create more jobs which boost the economy.

zerioustt
09-29-2008, 03:42 PM
here are some more facts...


In fact, challenging economic periods have consistently proved to be good times to launch new businesses. Sixteen of the 30 companies whose stocks make up the Dow started during recessions. General Electric traces its roots to the panic of 1873. William Hewlett and David Packard founded their eponymous business during the Great Depression. Ancient history, you argue? The year 1982 didn't look like such a great time to launch a technology company: The U.S. was in the midst of a recession and unemployment was at its highest since World War II. Seems the founders of Sun Microsystems, Compaq Computer, Adobe Systems, Silicon Graphics, and Lotus Development disagreed. All those companies started up that year--and prospered.

redline
09-29-2008, 03:45 PM
I agree but it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun spending $2K per month rent, paying utilities, paying advertising, buying tools/lifts etc... And not having any customers. $3000+ off the top every month can make alot of people go broke in a hurry. Thats like 100+ oil changes :)

I'm just speaking from experience as I've owned a small business for quite some time now. The slow times aren't too bad when you have very little overhead. But a slow week can kill you if you have alot. Starting as small as possible and building a reputation from there is the safest way to go.

CBRD had a reputation before he opened shop

I was just using CBRD as an example and I don't know the details but I hav seen his shop/results/reputation over the years do nothing but grow. I wish all shops/mechanics had his attitude.

The money you are talking about is really nothing for a month, I spend more than that on bills a month.

noclutch
09-29-2008, 03:47 PM
Zerious
He isn't building a corporation in a (at the time) niche market. He's opening a repair shop which is a very competitive field, there's repair shops all over the place. I understand what you're saying but not much of that applies to his specific situation.

noclutch
09-29-2008, 03:50 PM
I was just using CBRD as an example and I don't know the details but I hav seen his shop/results/reputation over the years do nothing but grow. I wish all shops/mechanics had his attitude.

The money you are talking about is really nothing for a month, I spend more than that on bills a month.

I wasn't shooting down your idea about CBRD, I see what you meant now. And $3000+ off the top is alot. He would need to make that just to keep the doors open, then his cost of living then profit. And yes, $3000 is probably a low estimate.

zerioustt
09-29-2008, 03:52 PM
Zerious
He isn't building a corporation in a (at the time) niche market. He's opening a repair shop which is a very competitive field, there's repair shops all over the place. I understand what you're saying but not much of that applies to his specific situation.

why doesnt it? many shops are going under and 90% of them fail at customer service. if he does it the right way he can cash it at a good time. property can be had cheap and workers even cheaper.

ive seen 3 shops close around me recently..all which ive heard nothing but bad things about. 2 i know personally are still doing very well. why? because they are everything a shop should be. if he stands by his work, finishes in the time he says, and just all around gives great customer service hes ahead of the game.

just because a certain market is flooded doesnt mean you cant stand out and prosper..you just have to stand out.

noclutch
09-29-2008, 04:00 PM
I agree that an existing business like this can do well now if you have a great reputation. But he's starting out with no rep at all, its very very difficult to get the initial workload so you can impress people. Like I said, I have owned a business that is in an absolutely flooded market (house painting) for years and I can say that its hard to pay out month after month when there's nearly no work out there. Right now I'm flourishing due to the economy but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't even think about starting anything from the ground up right now.

dragonfly2k3
09-29-2008, 05:06 PM
if he wants to get a rep fast he should be heading to meets, meeting people, and trying to recruit a customer base of nice cars. if people see that he can be trusted with nice cars, they'll be willing to take their beater to him.

KINGRICHARD
09-29-2008, 07:45 PM
I would really think long and hard and it all depends how much money you have to back you up. Figure out how much you think you will need and triple it. It is not easy. I was in your same situation about a year ago, tired of making money for someone else and not for me, i jumped in headfirst and never looked back. I had always wanted to open a shop and now we have a very good following. Location is key i looked at several locations before i made a move. Our location is around other shops but we are on a main one way street in phila and we are the first shop you run into. Good Luck with what ever you decide.

Evo8kid
09-29-2008, 07:57 PM
I'd start by doing a lot by myself, i have 4-5 years experience fixing/diagnosing cars. and during those years i have a lots of service writer experience because the place I worked at for 2 1/2 years I wrote and contacted customers myself 20% of the time when our shop manager was busy. but i will 100% keep you in mind if i go through with this idea and it flourishes.

i have the same, just at an independant shop...with about a year at a dealer. All of my customer interaction was at the independant. And i have about 3 years, so not as much. But it sounds good to me lol

05OCsrt-4
09-30-2008, 09:17 PM
I think i'm going to wait awhile to see how the economy works out, seeing how I was slammed at work yesterday with work and today was steady and some days we will sit there for hours playing uno while the boss yells at us, lol. it seems like everyone that needs their car fixed is putting it off until it broken down or 100% known there is a problem