small motor,big turbo

[Instigator1225]

well i stumbled across this on my local forum so i figured i would ge tyour guys thoughts....

i have nothing more to tell except its a 4g63(dont know the internals) with a 106 mm turbo.... out of shearerfab(sheaerfab.com).
http://img902.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/20/1-4b8pn5vor.jpeg
http://img108.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/20/2-4b8pn91ge.jpeg
http://img701.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/20/3-4b8pnfdi5.jpeg
http://img901.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/20/5-4b8pniyhh.jpeg
http://img701.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/20/4-4b8pnyrpr.jpeg
http://img801.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/20/6-4b8pnla57.jpeg

[assault187]

Wow! Hopefully that thing is stroked to a 2.4 with higher compression and built for a 300 shot of nitrous....

[the4g63]

Holy balls. I want it.

[Nors]

How big is that downpipe? 5inches?

[SpendOne]

I garantee you its a 2.0l still with super low compression.

[OMGz Turbo]

I garantee you its a 2.0l still with super low compression.

ill take that action...because i think its a 2.0 also

[DPancoast]

......I have to change my pants now

Sheesh....

[Instigator1225]

i am guessing its a low compression motor also... thats the thing to do up here.

and def a 2.0

[Erik]

wonder how much the turbo alone weighs. lag much? :eek:

[OMGz Turbo]

wonder how much the turbo alone weighs. lag much? :eek:


Mmmmm who cares haha

[SpendOne]

Its all about top end power. I will take a stab and say the turbo will hit full boost @8k and the motor will rev to about 11k. Its probably gonna be at 50+psi.

[Scapegoat]

Its probably gonna be at 50+psi.

and take an hour to reach that...

[TROLL]

i dont know much about drag cars but i know that when the only time the car spends below 6k rpm is when its idling in the pits, there is no such thing as lag, especially when you're spraying. is that really a 106mm turbo though? it looks damn big, but 106mm is... obscene.

[olmytsi]

Shearer himself posted that on nabr and i remember he said the motor was just a mock up motor and i don't think the turbo was going on a dsm...he just had it laying around and was bored.

[TROLL]

ha i was thinking that was a possibility as well. whats with the exhaust mani design though? i've never seen one like that...

[DPancoast]

and take an hour to reach that...


haha...

"wanna race?"

"sure dude, but I need from here to philly to spool up!"

[Nors]

ha i was thinking that was a possibility as well. whats with the exhaust mani design though? i've never seen one like that...

Shep runs a similar looking one, i always thought shorter = better, but these guys obviously know something I don't.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/sponsored/JohnShepherd/shep_engine.jpg

[olmytsi]

ha i was thinking that was a possibility as well. whats with the exhaust mani design though? i've never seen one like that...

Plenty of people run crazy manifolds...just creativity/trying different stuff i guess. I really like the ones that put the turbo on the bottom of the bumper somewhere like shep, the ams evo, the turbotrix wrx etc...Not sure how the length affects spool tho.

[TROLL]

yeah i would think shorter piping would be more efficient but maybe thety just cant fit everything in front of the motor when they're going to those huge turbos...

[Proven]

i dont know much about drag cars but i know that when the only time the car spends below 6k rpm is when its idling in the pits, there is no such thing as lag, especially when you're spraying. is that really a 106mm turbo though? it looks damn big, but 106mm is... obscene.

Well said. It always bothered me when people talk about how a race cars turbo is to big and they must lag like crazy. Most pro (or pro built) drag cars are close to full boost when they leave the line. Also, there’s a fair amount of fully built engines with big turbos running a higher compression the stock. On a road course though I would think this turbo wouldn’t be very forgiving on those funny turns or bad gear choice.

Now of course this turbo to be used on the street would be a nightmare.

[Omar_MSP]

jeez! looks like a 4agze motor...

[olmytsi]

It's a 4g63...

[Instigator1225]

I am assuming it is going on some sort of 4g motor. Shep is running something similar.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/John-Shepard-Fastest-AWD_3494.htm



and yeah thats a PTE 106 mil.

[russiankid]

ha i was thinking that was a possibility as well. whats with the exhaust mani design though? i've never seen one like that...

It kind of looks like a sidewinder style.

[CleanNeon98]

wonder if that will last 5 passes or not

[OMGz Turbo]

wonder if that will last 5 passes or not

im sure it would, i dont see why not

[SovXietday]

Shep runs a similar looking one, i always thought shorter = better, but these guys obviously know something I don't.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/sponsored/JohnShepherd/shep_engine.jpg

Huh, I wonder why they didn't build is so that the compressor inlet wasn't facing that huge hole right there for the ram air effect?

[frosti108]

1st word that came to mind is ELEPHANTITUS

[CleanNeon98]

im sure it would, i dont see why not
Im sure it will, it was just a DSM joke lol.

On a serious note, that turbo just looks rude.

[Honest_Bob]

Turbo lag is underrated. I wouldnt trade it for the world.

[TGilb2007]

Hopefully they dont run this thing near birds or small children.... they are bound to get lost in that turbo.

[KingOfDelco]

woah nelly. yeah, i have a tough time believing thats not a "mock-up" motor as opposed to a real race motor. that mani is SICK! Wastegate is well placed and angled. is that a 4" dp/dump tube?! :D

doesn't really matter where (aka. how far away from the exhaust ports) the turbo is mounted. As long as the runners are the correct diameter and similar/equal length (to maximize flow ) the velocity of the exhaust flow will remain high enough to spool the turbine. You can (and people do) run rear mounted turbos- with essentially just the stock exhaust pipe running to and flanging up with the turbo at the rear axle.

Log manifolds (shorty short runners with the "log"-looking collector and a flange haphazardly welded on, usually predominant drawing from only 1 or 2 cylinders) have certain benefits and are MUCH easier to design and fit into your engine bay, and cheaper. But a 4-1 (is it 4-2-1, i didn't check) manifold design like this would optimally flow and make a BUTTload of hi end power. Again, assuming all the plumbing is to spec. right?

[TommyBDragon]

I know those manifold are called side mount although I am not really sure what advandages they give over log style. I have seen an Honda one, I think from peakboost, but I havent seen one in a while pop up. Thats gotta be sickly expensive though.

Oh and that turbo is the size of my car. I wonder if it could suck up small animals...or maybe cause its own black hole as it hits peak boost...

[KingOfDelco]

Chris rado's world racing Scion tc time attack car uses a similar long-tube side mount manifold with amazing results. Like I said, its a closed system, its not like the exhaust loses velocity or pressure as its traveling thru the pipes, because there is always another pulse of gases coming behind them. Probably takes fraction of a second longer to spool up than a log-manifold. There are MANY advantages over log-style. they have similar properties to the fullrace ramhorn style manifolds and other EL tubular manifolds.

x2. small children should stay away from that engine bay under boost! :D that would be a first...

[SovXietday]

woah nelly. yeah, i have a tough time believing thats not a "mock-up" motor as opposed to a real race motor. that mani is SICK! Wastegate is well placed and angled. is that a 4" dp/dump tube?! :D

doesn't really matter where (aka. how far away from the exhaust ports) the turbo is mounted. As long as the runners are the correct diameter and similar/equal length (to maximize flow ) the velocity of the exhaust flow will remain high enough to spool the turbine. You can (and people do) run rear mounted turbos- with essentially just the stock exhaust pipe running to and flanging up with the turbo at the rear axle.


Sure, if you put a small enough turbo in your tailpipe you can spool it. When it comes to maximizing spool time and potential, short equal length runners are the best. Needless to say, spooling a 106mm turbo you need to get the most spool time as possible.

Generally the longer equal length manifolds is designed to create less backpressure in the manifold itself which helps top end power. The engine gets a cleaner burn every cycle because less exhaust particulate gets reverted back into the cylinder. The exhaust gas however does lose some heat and velocity through the longer tubing, but the extra foot or so of piping isn't going to make a huge difference. Generally the manifolds in these race cars are a bit longer so that they can place the turbo right behind the front bumper with a hole for the ram air effect, but that doesn't seem to be the case with this manifold.

Turbo lag is underrated. I wouldnt trade it for the world.

Exactly.

[KingOfDelco]

Sure, if you put a small enough turbo in your tailpipe you can spool it.


good post. but its not really the size of the turbo that matters, its how much exhaust your engine puts out. ie. if you have a 4 cyl, then yes, you would be limited to a smaller turbo, if you had a 6 or 8 cyl engine, then it would generate enough exhaust to spool a larger turbo... but, thats really no different than normal operating procedure.

if you lengthen pipe, past the point of diminishing returns, you need to reduce diameter accordingly to compensate for pressure/velocity loss.

log manifolds are long known to be a source of restriction and backpressure in turbo systems.

[Action Park]

, its a closed system,
93
If it was, it would'nt run. The advantages of the smooth and minimal bends, far from the head, far outweigh the minimal velocity lost over distance. I spool a .58a/r undiv t4 journal bearing in a respectable time(load dependent, but I shift at 6200) with a mild little 1.9L with the long tube monstrosity pictured below(although there are a few other advantages-open exh, good exh flow of acvw, 7.5:1 comp, stainless).


Also, I can imagine that that 4g63 runs on alcohol. Spool time is just about halved with meth. Oh, and sorry for the huge pic.
93 93/93

[KingOfDelco]

wtf dude? is this just an excuse to post a huge pic of your engine bay?? what is your comment supposed to mean in reference to me trying to explain that the exhaust IS a closed system and doesn't matter how long the runners are as long as their properly designed???

"If it was, it would'nt run. The advantages of the smooth and minimal bends, far from the head, far outweigh the minimal velocity lost over distance. " ---you seem agree with me based on the 2nd part of your comment.

[Action Park]

wtf dude? is this just an excuse to post a huge pic of your engine bay?? what is your comment supposed to mean in reference to me trying to explain that the exhaust IS a closed system and doesn't matter how long the runners are as long as their properly designed???

"If it was, it would'nt run. The advantages of the smooth and minimal bends, far from the head, far outweigh the minimal velocity lost over distance. " ---you seem agree with me based on the 2nd part of your comment.
93
Pic eliminated... too big( it was as an example pertaining to what I said in the post). I stated that the velocity lost over distance is minimal, if you agree, so be it. However, an exhaust is NOT a closed system. Obviously, it would'nt be able to run. You posted bs, I corrected, simple as that.
93 93/93

[92sileighty]

a midget could live in that thing...

[SovXietday]

me trying to explain that the exhaust IS a closed system


Are you kidding? Turn your car on and suck on your tailpipe, then come back and tell me how "closed" the exhaust system is.

And yes, turbo size absolutely most definitely does matter. Put that 106mm turbo in the trunk of scheps car and he'd probably never spool it, no matter how small his exhaust piping is. We're not talking about 6 or 8 cyl engines, I'm talking specifically about the topic we have here.

[dturbocivic]

It's a joke Wes. The turbo this particular car is running will be a bit smaller. This turbo is for a locals small block street/track car. I couldn't resist taking the pictures, the look of having a compressor cover that is wider than the cylinder head was just too ridiculous. Only in my wet dreams could we get this to work, I can't imagine overcoming the compressor surge as "coupe" noted. Maybe one day we'll give it a whirl.


.....

[SovXietday]

A locals street/track car. WTF kind of maniac has a 106mm turbo on a street car!?

[dturbocivic]

lol,seriously.. guess he aint worried about gas milage :-p

[olmytsi]

Yup, i knew that's what Shearer had said, i just didn't remember which thread it was in.

[dturbocivic]

i saw it on the bullet.

[ho1ywars]

obviously with a turbo that size its not going to be a street car. sputting the turbo a few feet away from the motor isnt going to really matter becuase with dsmlink, haltech, aem ems, and a ****load of other ecus, you can just play with the 2 step, play with the antilag, and leave line without bogging, at full boost. How do you think all the cars at the nhra sport compact nationals, or nopi cut such sick 60 foots with their huge turbos. Turbo lag is almost not an issue any longer with proper tuning on a drag car.

[zilvia240]

that turbo is bigger then the motor. really would like to see this in action on the track.

[2.2longrod]

He ran a high 7 second sub 200mph run with this setup. The car has been completely redone. And if I would put money on it he is using and has always been using a 2.0 long rod. They have a better rod ratio then the standard 2.0. As for spooling the turbo. Using anti lag with AEM, A quarter master twin disc clutch, and the best drivetrain money can buy for a DSM gets the job done. He literally holds the car together with how fast he drops the clutch. Spooling that size of a turbo is easy with anti lag and dumping the clutch at 8k rpm :) We will be seeing big things from this man really soon. BTW a 2.2 long rod is better :p ha ha ha. For all that dont know this is John Sheps car. Im sure he holds the ETA and trap speed record for a 1st generation dsm. And this was years ago now. Just wait til he works the bugs out with the new setup. Oh and a long runner exhaust manifold gives you a even less choppy power band up in the 8krpm and up range. As well as a **** load of torque. How do you think he can trap a 200mph run. Its a testament of POWER!

[90blacktsiawd]

No ma'am it was never shep's car that the thread had been about. The pic is no longer up of the mock set up Shearer had taken pics of that were posted up here. He also already stated the pic was a joke and the turbo was going a small block v8 street/track car.


PS: this thread is 3 years old :thumbup:

[FocusDude]

The pics are lost. Can anyone get me more info? I have a buddy swearing there is no way a 4banger can roll 11k. Well, then the butts start. But yea, something more would be nice-

[isved]

The pics are lost. Can anyone get me more info? I have a buddy swearing there is no way a 4banger can roll 11k. Well, then the butts start. But yea, something more would be nice-

Why don't you show him some videos of built 4 banger hondas?

[OMGz Turbo]

The pics are lost. Can anyone get me more info? I have a buddy swearing there is no way a 4banger can roll 11k. Well, then the butts start. But yea, something more would be nice-

Bro google extreme tuning in greece.

[PAdutch]

The pics are lost. Can anyone get me more info? I have a buddy swearing there is no way a 4banger can roll 11k. Well, then the butts start. But yea, something more would be nice-

How about a 4G63 running 7sec (watch the tach, ends at 10k):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiSptlw-L_U

[EklipzGSXkid]

I have two STREET cars (dsm's) at my garage right now that rev to 10k rpms....It's not even close to being impossible tell him..

[blue91lx]

David Buschur has a lot to say about 11k RPMs with a 4cyl :)
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-general/582890-11-000-rpm-so-old-news.html