The E85 thread! Tuning/Locations/ect.

[peteyturbo]

I have converted my Evo to E85 and it is the best mod I have done so far. There are many benifits and few drawbacks but the main drawback is the lack of E85 stations and innaccuracy of online sites that locate the pumps. I now have 2 pumps that I fill up at but if anyone knows any other stations please chime in!

12th & Vine Philadelphia
3.58/Gal
Lehigh Valley Service plaza on the NE extension of the turnpike
3.17/Gal. :mrgreen:

[SovXietday]

I will buy new injectors and up the boost even more as soon as this **** comes to more gas stations around here. I can't find any that are local enough for it to be at all practical.

[Renegade_]

To the best of my knowledge, a lot of guys with SRs just dump 15% more fuel and let her rip. This looks to be promising in terms of tuning...

[SovXietday]

To the best of my knowledge, a lot of guys with SRs just dump 15% more fuel and let her rip. This looks to be promising in terms of tuning...

E85. Pretty simple. 85% ethanol, 15% 87 octane. Octane rating, 104. Price is relatively low too. Basically, the **** is straight up cheap race gas that burns cooler than race gas.

Due to ethanol's burning properties, in order to produce the same amount of power you will need more volume of fuel. General consensus is about 15-20% more fuel. If you have a standard wideband, you can tune to gasoline AFRs because of the way the wideband interprets it's readings.

Because of the octane rating those of you with adjustable timing can also add more to make more power. In other words, you will need to tune for the fuel just like everything else. I personally wouldn't just swap to E85 with a fuel change, the considerably higher octane will need to be accounted for as well otherwise you're really just losing power. Yes, you can run more boost with E85... but you need to tune the car still.

There's a 7xxwhp hatch on this website who's using it.

Hope that answers all the questions.

[peteyturbo]

Actually closer 30% enrichment from what I have seen and its rated at 105 I believe. BUT it has a larger max power rich and max power lean window so you can run safely from about ~9.5-12.5AFR on a gas calibrated wideband and still make decent power..With such good cyl temp. cooling properties people are running as high as 13 afr's but the gain is not even all that much.
Those are just some of the benifits not to mention the inside of my exhaust tip is bling bling, no more noxious exhaust odor, and it comes from a renewable rescource..
Please no posts complaining about food for the poor going to make ethanol, it is simply not true, just a heads up:)
E85. Pretty simple. 85% ethanol, 15% 87 octane. Octane rating, 104. Price is relatively low too. Basically, the **** is straight up cheap race gas that burns cooler than race gas.

Due to ethanol's burning properties, in order to produce the same amount of power you will need more volume of fuel. General consensus is about 15-20% more fuel. If you have a standard wideband, you can tune to gasoline AFRs because of the way the wideband interprets it's readings.

Because of the octane rating those of you with adjustable timing can also add more to make more power. In other words, you will need to tune for the fuel just like everything else. I personally wouldn't just swap to E85 with a fuel change, the considerably higher octane will need to be accounted for as well otherwise you're really just losing power. Yes, you can run more boost with E85... but you need to tune the car still.

There's a 7xxwhp hatch on this website who's using it.

Hope that answers all the questions.

[SovXietday]

^ Good ****, didn't know about the AFR window.

I want this stuff around here so damn bad.

[peteyturbo]

I was going to only run it when I went to the track as a race gas alternative but now that they have one near Allentown (which is where I usually go back and fourth from) has made it easier for me to run it all the time. It takes me 10 min to get to 12th and vine so it's not so bad either..I have a patch for my ecu calibrated to run with a GM Flex fuel sensor, all I need is the sensor and I can mix and match as much as I would like and let the ECU interpolate my fuel and ignition accordingly which is pretty cool, I just don't have the 3-400 to spend on the damn flex fuel sensor:)I will buy new injectors and up the boost even more as soon as this **** comes to more gas stations around here. I can't find any that are local enough for it to be at all practical.

[SovXietday]

I was going to only run it when I went to the track as a race gas alternative but now that they have one near Allentown (which is where I usually go back and fourth from) has made it easier for me to run it all the time. It takes me 10 min to get to 12th and vine so it's not so bad either..I have a patch for my ecu calibrated to run with a GM Flex fuel sensor, all I need is the sensor and I can mix and match as much as I would like and let the ECU interpolate my fuel and ignition accordingly which is pretty cool, I just don't have the 3-400 to spend on the damn flex fuel sensor:)

I have to put bigger injectors in the Civic before I can convert over. Unfortunately, 780ccs are almost tapped out just on pump.:roll:

I'd run it just on the track but I have to tune for the fuel individually. But it could definitely a possibility.

[underpressure02]

I have to put bigger injectors in the Civic before I can convert over. Unfortunately, 780ccs are almost tapped out just on pump.:roll:

I'd run it just on the track but I have to tune for the fuel individually. But it could definitely a possibility.

How much power are you making on your sohc that you are almost tapping out 780's?

[Action Park]

93
Is it really mixed with 87? I'm not too certain on these octane ratings for e85. 104, 105? Pure ethanol has an octane rating of only 100, but has a much higher equivalency due to its latent heat of evaporization. Same with meth- actually 99 octane but in terms of an anti-detonant, it's equivalent to about 130 compared to petrol. As stated before, these alcohols also have much better rich flammibility. Meaning that "lean is mean" does'nt apply to alcohol, unlike petrol. One cant just effectively add a certain percentage of fuel based on stoic, it has to be tuned proper. Erring to the rich might just net better gains than the other way around.
93 93/93

[SovXietday]

How much power are you making on your sohc that you are almost tapping out 780's?

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't put it on the dyno, just street tuned for now.

Hondata duty cycle is reading ~80-85% duty cycle on the injectors. 11.5s at 22psi. I would have bump to 1000s and an injector driver for E85. I don't like going much over 90% as far as injector duty cycle goes, 100% just means the injector is slammed open and there is no regulation what so ever.

[twastheglow]

Time for my question of ignorance. What all must one do when converting your car to run on E85? I don't have any near me, but when I do, it's something I'm interested in switching to. I understand larger injectors are needed to flow more fuel, (plus the proper tuning) but is that all?

[underpressure02]

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't put it on the dyno, just street tuned for now.

Hondata duty cycle is reading ~80-85% duty cycle on the injectors. 11.5s at 22psi. I would have bump to 1000s and an injector driver for E85. I don't like going much over 90% as far as injector duty cycle goes, 100% just means the injector is slammed open and there is no regulation what so ever.


I just ask b/c I am making over 500 on 780's with 40 psi base pressure.

[SovXietday]

I just ask b/c I am making over 500 on 780's with 40 psi base pressure.

You're engine is probably more efficient than mine, lol. That and, don't you have a 6cyl? Honestly, I don't understand how my injectors are at the duty cycle they're at either. But reguardless, I need more fuel anyway. Heck, I might just get 1600ccs so that I never have to get another pair again, injector size really doesn't matter too much.

Time for my question of ignorance. What all must one do when converting your car to run on E85? I don't have any near me, but when I do, it's something I'm interested in switching to. I understand larger injectors are needed to flow more fuel, (plus the proper tuning) but is that all?

Bigger injectors, a pump that will support the extra fuel, and tuning. You'll be able to run race gas like boost with race gas like numbers from the pump.:wink:

[underpressure02]

You're engine is probably more efficient than mine, lol. That and, don't you have a 6cyl? Honestly, I don't understand how my injectors are at the duty cycle they're at either. But reguardless, I need more fuel anyway. Heck, I might just get 1600ccs so that I never have to get another pair again, injector size really doesn't matter too much.



Not unless honda made ls/vtec's in 6 cylinders. I would not go with 1600 if you are going to daily drive the car

[igo4bmx]

Not unless honda made ls/vtec's in 6 cylinders. I would not go with 1600 if you are going to daily drive the car

werd injector size matters- pintles are too heavy

[SovXietday]

Not unless honda made ls/vtec's in 6 cylinders. I would not go with 1600 if you are going to daily drive the car

Oops, confused you with the guy with the beamer build.

I haven't daily driven the car in over a year. Reguardless, it's all just random here-say and me banking ideas off myself lol. And yeah, an LSV would have made about 450ish with the setup in my car no problem.:o

[shuttlegoose]

i wouldn't mind doing this with my evo as well, as soon as more gas stations come around with it. my question is with all this added fuel and larger injectors in order to run 85, would it be cost effective even at say 3.50 gal if your getting worse mpg because of the increase in fuel? i don't know what type of gas mileage you are getting, i just assumed it would be less because of the added fuel. if not then e85 is where its at!!!

[peteyturbo]

Cost vs. mileage breaks about even. But you have the added performance and environmental benifits E85..i wouldn't mind doing this with my evo as well, as soon as more gas stations come around with it. my question is with all this added fuel and larger injectors in order to run 85, would it be cost effective even at say 3.50 gal if your getting worse mpg because of the increase in fuel? i don't know what type of gas mileage you are getting, i just assumed it would be less because of the added fuel. if not then e85 is where its at!!!

[TalonTsi97]

Petey good to see you around these ways again. Haven't seen your evo out in NE philly in a long time.

I'd love to set my car up for this but I'm going to wait a while longer, do more research and hope a station pops up near me. So far from what I'm seeing it seems like a great way to go.

[peteyturbo]

Thats probably because you never come around broseph!!
I have simply DRAINED a full tank of gas in about 170 miles doing tuning and get my injectors scaled right (thats 14 gallons), but I went 130miles for the first half on the highway so it aint so bad:rotfl:

BTW I was talking with a friend/tuner from out west and found the key to make BIG TIME power with this stuff..I am running C16 timing right now with zero knock at 26psi..After tonights tuning session I can't wait to get to the track!Petey good to see you around these ways again. Haven't seen your evo out in NE philly in a long time.

I'd love to set my car up for this but I'm going to wait a while longer, do more research and hope a station pops up near me. So far from what I'm seeing it seems like a great way to go.

[TalonTsi97]

Sounds good man, I've been out sunday nights pretty regularly and a few random thursdays and just haven't seen ya i guess. I will keep an eye out for ya this week.
I'm looking forward to your track results on this stuff.

[SovXietday]

Thats probably because you never come around broseph!!
I have simply DRAINED a full tank of gas in about 170 miles doing tuning and get my injectors scaled right (thats 14 gallons), but I went 130miles for the first half on the highway so it aint so bad:rotfl:

BTW I was talking with a friend/tuner from out west and found the key to make BIG TIME power with this stuff..I am running C16 timing right now with zero knock at 26psi..After tonights tuning session I can't wait to get to the track!

Like I said, to take full advantage of this stuff you need to add the timing because it acts like race gas.:thumbup:

Damn, now I should just go and get myself a few gallons and run it in the hatch.

[TROLL]

found this alternative fuel locator online that might be helpful in the future, although currently its not showing any new locations :(
if there was something closer i'd be setting up for E85 on the Supra, but its not gonna work out just yet...

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/stations/find_station.php

[the4g63]

Petey, what kinda fuel setup are you running for this? I'd definitely switch if a station popped up near me.

[peteyturbo]

Walbro and PTE 880's..ECUflash takes care of the rest:mrgreen:
I was planning on just running E85 at the track but I have never gone back since the first fill up..It's only a matter of a one minute reflash or a flip of a switch if you have the map switching mod done.Petey, what kinda fuel setup are you running for this? I'd definitely switch if a station popped up near me.

[peteyturbo]

the supra would love it! Sadly my lowly stock 40 lb/min turbo is tapped out even on pump gas pretty much..When I get a good boost spike I hit 95-96 in the 1/8th:) I'm about ready to just run with a closed WG:bigeek:
My goal is to get kicked out of a track for no cage with a stock turbo, just 3 more tenths to go!!
Anyone have a set of DR's I can borrow?found this alternative fuel locator online that might be helpful in the future, although currently its not showing any new locations :(
if there was something closer i'd be setting up for E85 on the Supra, but its not gonna work out just yet...

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/stations/find_station.php

[peteyturbo]

Came across this video and I was amazed with the things they are coming up with to produce oil..Pay special attention to the last sentence:) Things may be looking up, but someone else will just get richer I am sure.
Hyper ethanol production
http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/i/misc/Vertigro/index.html

[peteyturbo]

Bump this thread, E85 is ~2.00 a gallon now!!!! Why am I the only one running E85?

[vwcorradokid]

Bump this thread, E85 is ~2.00 a gallon now!!!! Why am I the only one running E85?

I'd set my car up for E-85 if I was anywhere near a pump.

[TROLL]

i'd love to run it too... i thought about doing 55 gallon drums but i dont know if thats very reasonable. hopefully they'll have something up my way soon enough... either of my cars are just an injector change away to use it.

[evogsrviii]

i'd love to run it too... i thought about doing 55 gallon drums but i dont know if thats very reasonable. hopefully they'll have something up my way soon enough... either of my cars are just an injector change away to use it.

I have looked into and didnt seem worth it once you look at shipping and everything. They need to sell it in more places.

[R_Rambo]

e85 would be so great if it was just in more staions imagine if some place like wawa carried it that would make life so nice considering there is 5 wawa's within 10 miles of my house

[peteyturbo]

There was talk about Wal-mart selling it at their stores some time ago..
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/01/tech/main1673113.shtml

[240sxDann]

i doubt wawa will ever carry e85. **** they dont even carry diesel.

[R_Rambo]

^ i was just using that as an example if someone mainstream carried it, it would probaly catch on big for example wal-mart like peteyturbo said

[240sxDann]

All those places suck though anyways.

[SovXietday]

I wish it was more mainstream around here, it's just not worth the effort to do it as of now.

[redline]

I am still waiting for this liquid gold to get here on Base. When I was home in Lancaster, I seen it everywhere! Bastards.

[240sxDann]

I havn't seen it anywhere yet, at all.

[tdmopar59]

what do i have to do to run it?? i may start my research!

[redline]

I havn't seen it anywhere yet, at all.

Most E-85 will be a in seperate underground storage tank and the dispensor will be located away from the main pumps. It caught my eye at a couple local gas stations.

[97TurboDSM]

I am still waiting for this liquid gold to get here on Base. When I was home in Lancaster, I seen it everywhere! Bastards.

ah! where in lancaster? i havent been searching but i also havent spotted it about.

[vwcorradokid]

what do i have to do to run it?? i may start my research!

braided fuel lines, bigger injectors...then tuning for it.

[240sxDann]

braided fuel lines? Does it eat through rubber? (I guess it would be alcohol?)

[redline]

ah! where in lancaster? i havent been searching but i also havent spotted it about.

In the City it will most likely be hard to find but the ones I seen where in Manheim, Lititz, Mount Joy, etc. just outside the City.

[redline]

braided fuel lines? Does it eat through rubber? (I guess it would be alcohol?)

All fuel eats rubber, this is where Neoprene, Buna and Viton come into play. All fuel O rings, lines, fitting are allready made of it. You will be fine just get some big injectors to run this stuff.

[97TurboDSM]

In the City it will most likely be hard to find but the ones I seen where in Manheim, Lititz, Mount Joy, etc. just outside the City.

oh i dont live IN the city, i'll have to keep an eye out.

[ndubz]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject. But if it requires like 15%-20% more fuel, then wont ur fuel economy drop dramatically? and like how much more power can be made with this swap and proper tuning without doing anything else? I am interested in possibly doing this, so what would i have to change on my car from the way it is now? I have an 04 STi with a stock fuel system (for the moment).

[240sxDann]

yea but if your running enough boost and timing to need to run this stuff...fuel mileage probably isn't a huge concern.

[peteyturbo]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject. But if it requires like 15%-20% more fuel, then wont ur fuel economy drop dramatically? and like how much more power can be made with this swap and proper tuning without doing anything else? I am interested in possibly doing this, so what would i have to change on my car from the way it is now? I have an 04 STi with a stock fuel system (for the moment).
Mileage will go down to about 15-20mpg..Depending on your setup you can expect 30-100 hp gains..I probably gain about 40-50hp from my pump gas tune with more boost..All you would really need is a fuel pump and larger injectors.

yea but if your running enough boost and timing to need to run this stuff...fuel mileage probably isn't a huge concern.
especially ~2.00 a gallon

[240sxDann]

yea this stuff is better then pump gas, performance wise, yet cheaper. Can you beat that?!

[ndubz]

This sounds like a good thing to do later after i buy another car to DD. and at about the same time i throw a new turbo in my car. seems like a better idea than Meth injection. Im prolly doin pump and injectors this summer along with an intake manifold and maybe an aftermarket Top mount IC, so i'll make sure to get fuel stuff that can handle the fuel swap. what size injectors would i need prolly? and like how much boost are we talkin about to run this stuff well?

[240sxDann]

37psi, at the very least.

[SovXietday]

Lol. Things you should get to run E85.

Fuel pump, Injectors to support your WHP goals. Remember, not only do you need more fuel, you're going to need even more for the extra power you're going to make.

You will then need to tune for it. I'm not sure what it's like on other makes and models with open source and all that, but it's a bit of a PITA on a Honda as you'll probably want a 93 octane tune and an E85 tune. I think Pete uses a flex fuel indicator to swap his maps back and forth, but others may need to use a dual map based system that you manually switch back and forth depending on the fuel you're using.

I don't recommend this for a stock car. You don't just stick it in and win. It's only gas afterall, you will still need to up the boost/mod the car/etc. If you're picking up 40+whp gains without changing anything but the ECU map, it's because you're running super close to the det threshold on pump and you don't have any timing at all in the car, E85 is just letting you put the timing back in. If you're not on the threshold, you'll only pick up minimum gains by switching to E85.

Sorry I'm just a tuning nerd. :-P

Oh, and if you need to ask what kind of fuel mileage this is going to give you, don't waste your time.

[Got Insulin?]

You don't just stick it in and win.

ROFL, sig material right there. I'm in the same boat with everybody here: unitl they get some pumpage near me, I'm not going to bother.

[240sxDann]

With that being said, I retract my previous statement. 41.7 psi at the very least.

[TROLL]

So how are the old E85 guys doing, and are there any new users since this thread first came about?
I've been anxiously waiting for something closer than Philly or KOP so that I can run E85 in the Supra... I'm merely octane limited at this point on more power. Nothing popping up yet in the northeast but hopefully something will eventually.

And I found this where you can say you want E85 in your town so fill it out and show the demand is out there! http://www.e85fuel.com/need_e85.php

[Got Insulin?]

So how are the old E85 guys doing, and are there any new users since this thread first came about?
I've been anxiously waiting for something closer than Philly or KOP so that I can run E85 in the Supra... I'm merely octane limited at this point on more power. Nothing popping up yet in the northeast but hopefully something will eventually.

And I found this where you can say you want E85 in your town so fill it out and show the demand is out there! http://www.e85fuel.com/need_e85.php

A friend of mine that works for Lukoil, a big chain in the NE at least, who's completely car-tarded, mentioned that they (Lukoil) are taking a serious look into putting an E85 pump at the Knights and Fairdale location (i.e.-right by 95, and at at least one of their BLVD locations because of the recent slight upswings in gas prices again, so now is the time to start pushing for it. Another guy that I talk to online said that he's been running it for over a year and has had no longevity problems that might be associated with using a new fuel. I hope Lukoil continues to at least consider putting it into some circulation in the NE, because it would make them bank with all the locals.