.

[mck52689]

____.

[bmatyeah]

That is why RT TUNING is in lansdale, why diden't you stop him? i cant believe someone would want to go somewhere else for a swap, your friend is stupid..

[SpEcRv9]

10k?!?! he could go to a actual decent shop and prob get a k20 installed for that much and then some....(im guessing since im not a honda guy)....

anyone that would spend that much money is insane. to put it in perspective a guy on myspecv just got a swap done that took almost a year to complete because it being the first spec with a vq30det, and he only spent a little more than 11k installed from this shop....and its gonna be around 450whp on pump gas...

[SovXietday]

Christ, 10K! I built my entire car for just over that.

67trim, bone stock LS, no supporting mods. Good way to waste 10K.

[pearl]

That is also his fault for not researching what he was doing. Both parties are to blame.

Before you buy anything, you should always compare with other shops in the area, ask your friends, locals at meets, etc.

[james_ls]

He didn't do ANY research...or remove his head from his ass before he took his wallet out...did he?

[gary]

I don't understand? Did they do bad work? Your complaining about them quoting high prices? Your complaining about your friend paying high prices? There is no reason to bash a shop until they actually do something wrong. This is America and here businesses have the ability to charge what they want and YOU have the choice to go there or not. I can see if they quoted your friend $300 and without telling him it became $10K but that's not what it sounds like. Stop the crying please!

[SpEcRv9]

I don't understand? Did they do bad work? Your complaining about them quoting high prices? Your complaining about your friend paying high prices? There is no reason to bash a shop until they actually do something wrong. This is America and here businesses have the ability to charge what they want and YOU have the choice to go there or not. I can see if they quoted your friend $300 and without telling him it became $10K but that's not what it sounds like. Stop the crying please!

he never said they did bad work, and you're right this is America business can charge whatever they want.....but that business isnt gonna last long trying to charge someone 10k for a ls-turbo swap...with prices like that it sounds like they arent even tryin to make an extra grand or something it sounds like they are trying to make an extra 6 or 7 grand.....aka ripping people off...

the only reason anyone would pay that much for that lsturbo swap is because as he said his friend is pretty IMPATIENT...and if you read the whole thing im sure you read that he went there and when he found out the price of what he wanted he left....so yeah if you're impatient and like getting your butthole stretched a little more...sounds like the place to take it to. this is America he can say whatever he wants.

[pearl]

How fast did they get the swap and turbo install done in? If they did it in 5-6 hours, maybe its worth paying that much :wink:

[SpEcRv9]

How fast did they get the swap and turbo install done in? If they did it in 5-6 hours, maybe its worth paying that much :wink:

if it included a BJ from jessica simpson.

[mck52689]

That is also his fault for not researching what he was doing. Both parties are to blame.

Before you buy anything, you should always compare with other shops in the area, ask your friends, locals at meets, etc.

- He did "some" research but hes lazy and impatient and does not want to wait so its sad.


He didn't do ANY research...or remove his head from his ass before he took his wallet out...did he?

- His head is always in his ass sorry.

I don't understand? Did they do bad work? Your complaining about them quoting high prices? Your complaining about your friend paying high prices? There is no reason to bash a shop until they actually do something wrong. This is America and here businesses have the ability to charge what they want and YOU have the choice to go there or not. I can see if they quoted your friend $300 and without telling him it became $10K but that's not what it sounds like. Stop the crying please!

- They have done bad work... a close friend had them replace the engine it blew, it had a warantee they refused... took them to court they had to replace it blew again but no warantee haha, and about the choice question.... it started off as costing 5-6k but he paid them that... then they took advantage of it and lied to him on **** but he wont believe us... i mean he knows the basics on cars and acts like he knows **** about it... but cmon 1k for dyno and tuning?

How fast did they get the swap and turbo install done in? If they did it in 5-6 hours, maybe its worth paying that much :wink:

- It's sadddd... the guy said it wont be done for 2-3 months, so id prob pay them 50 bucks.

if it included a BJ from jessica simpson.

- If it did include a bj from jessica simpson i would have all of the cars at my house turbod

[mck52689]

if it included a BJ from jessica simpson.


I'd pay them to even turbo my riding lawnmower ****.

[evomike]

Seriously its your boys fault not the shop, don't bash them cause your jelous that they made a fortune off of your idiot friend. I guess they saw him coming and people do **** like this all the time don't be mad cause they made money off of a friend who is a retard

[SovXietday]

2-3 months? I converted my car from stock to what it is now in that timeframe...

[SpEcRv9]

damn i thought impatient meant like 2-3 weeks....but 2-3months?....dude your friend could get better service for alot cheaper. i guess its too late now for your friend to see this thread and realize he ****ed up big time.

[mck52689]

well think about it.... the motor is already together its gonan take 2-3 months just to put it in the car

[mck52689]

damn i thought impatient meant like 2-3 weeks....but 2-3months?....dude your friend could get better service for alot cheaper. i guess its too late now for your friend to see this thread and realize he ****ed up big time.

he doesnt even come on tst... lets just say my friend and me are turboing his type r and it is going to cost half the price and be twice as fast and were doing it in my garage

[mck52689]

and to everyone... im not defending my friend in any way... hes a dumb ass for paying this much when he could have got it done for free... im just saying glc is not a good place... i mean re rear my post about my friends engine and tranny blowing up 3 times... they welded my exhaust on my eclipse and it fell off my car the next week.

[SpEcRv9]

he doesnt even come on tst... lets just say my friend and me are turboing his type r and it is going to cost half the price and be twice as fast and were doing it in my garage

yeah i meant someone needs to show him this.

thats the point lol. for 10k you can get alot more than a ls-t swap. like a k20, h22,type r motor (b18(some letter lol)) and on top of it probably have it boosted and installed for less.

[pearl]

- He did "some" research but hes lazy and impatient and does not want to wait so its sad.
Well, I hope it paid off by NOT looking around.

- It's sadddd... the guy said it wont be done for 2-3 months, so id prob pay them 50 bucks.
Well you're friend isn't the brightest crayon in the box. Hopefully he learned something from this experience.

[95TurboDC2]

i had a bad experience with them. had them put on brand new clutch in my dc2. pick it up and pay and im driving down the road and get on it to see if i can feel a difference and im getting smoke inside my car. im like wtf is that my clutch smoking already?? pop the hood and no dipstick. mind you i just put brand new dc headers on my car. now i have oil all over the back of the new headers and oil all over the engine bay. call the shop and tell them my deal and to look in the back if there is a dipstick back there. goes and looks and comes back to the phone and tells me " oh yeah its here. it was sitting on the bench back there. they must have forgot." r u f'ing kidding me?? brand new headers trashed due to people not checking there work. i wouldnt reccomend that shop to anyone.

[pearl]

the header is trashed because their is oil on it?

i dont know anything about this shop, but im just curious how oil on a header makes it trashed.

[mck52689]

i had a bad experience with them. had them put on brand new clutch in my dc2. pick it up and pay and im driving down the road and get on it to see if i can feel a difference and im getting smoke inside my car. im like wtf is that my clutch smoking already?? pop the hood and no dipstick. mind you i just put brand new dc headers on my car. now i have oil all over the back of the new headers and oil all over the engine bay. call the shop and tell them my deal and to look in the back if there is a dipstick back there. goes and looks and comes back to the phone and tells me " oh yeah its here. it was sitting on the bench back there. they must have forgot." r u f'ing kidding me?? brand new headers trashed due to people not checking there work. i wouldnt reccomend that shop to anyone.


Theres another reason why not to go there... I mean this thread isn't to really bash anyone or the shop... but i'm just making sure people don't get ****ed over

[gary]

Ehh the headers aren't trashed just dirty now. Wipe them off.

The whole reason behind my post because I am sick and tired of people jumping on here and bashing a shop for retarded reasons. There are many reasons to bash a shop but this is not one of them. I don't know this at all but by the looks of their website I wouldn't go there anyway. I am done ranting about the rant now.

[mck52689]

Ehh the headers aren't trashed just dirty now. Wipe them off.

The whole reason behind my post because I am sick and tired of people jumping on here and bashing a shop for retarded reasons. There are many reasons to bash a shop but this is not one of them. I don't know this at all but by the looks of their website I wouldn't go there anyway. I am done ranting about the rant now.


haha their myspace site?

[amit]

Ground level customs is the only place thats lame enough to charge you $70 for a CEL reading for something they messed up installing....and then charging YOU for uninstalling said item.

I wouldn't trust them to change my wiper blades.

[gary]

haha their myspace site?

no their website

[95TurboDC2]

Ehh the headers aren't trashed just dirty now. Wipe them off.

The whole reason behind my post because I am sick and tired of people jumping on here and bashing a shop for retarded reasons. There are many reasons to bash a shop but this is not one of them. I don't know this at all but by the looks of their website I wouldn't go there anyway. I am done ranting about the rant now.

after the oil was baked into the headers i can just wipe it off like its nothing?? doubt it. tried it, didnt work. there was oil all over them. i can sit here and say whatever, but youd have to see it to understand. its not the fact that there was oil all over brand new headers, its the fact that they do careless work. plain and simple.

[justinlansdale]

they rolled my fender lips on my first car and destroyed the paint...

[mck52689]

your corolla? that **** was a beast it was clean as hell

[mck52689]

Ground level customs is the only place thats lame enough to charge you $70 for a CEL reading for something they messed up installing....and then charging YOU for uninstalling said item.

I wouldn't trust them to change my wiper blades.


whatd they install for you:?

[amit]

Not me but it was my brothers CAI. He didn't wanna bother doing it himself since it involved taking off the headlights and the front bumper. In hindsight he really wishes he would have just found a free day to do it all himself.

[RyanG]

remember the pyramid people... gotta meet somewhere.
http://ifacethoughts.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fastgoodchea.png

[Instigator1225]

hahaha you got ripped the **** off.

[dragonfly2k3]

I cant really say much for the high prices aside from it being un-ethical to knowingly make more than is deserved on a certain job. I can say however that careless work is downright scary. What if they had installed stainless brakelines and "forgot" to tighten them down, or "forgot" to torque the lug nuts.

[DPancoast]

^ or forgot to bleed the system.

for $10k, I could be running high mid-low 12s....if not faster.

[philly350]

That is why RT TUNING is in lansdale, why diden't you stop him? i cant believe someone would want to go somewhere else for a swap, your friend is stupid..

I DEF. AGREE WITH HIM.

[DPancoast]

yeah RT is awesome.

[pearl]

for $10k, I could be running high mid-low 12s....if not faster.

i hope its much faster than 12s.

[dragonfly2k3]

i hope its much faster than 12s.
lol, yeah, for 10k i could be way into the 11s if not high 10s(obviously not track legal, because a cage could eat up 4k of that easy)

[jdmwill]

Seriously its your boys fault not the shop, don't bash them cause your jelous that they made a fortune off of your idiot friend. I guess they saw him coming and people do **** like this all the time don't be mad cause they made money off of a friend who is a retard

x100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

buyer beware comes to mind.lol dude i built a b20b turbo setup for a customer and the total bill didn't go past $3000. and its been a year so far without a hicup whatsoever.if they felt that was the price for that type of build.your friend could have just told the no.plain and simple dont rant if it could had being avoided by your friend.

just like a small child if you tell them to keep there finger off the light socket.and if they dont pour some water on them and let them fry. lesson learn.


by the way "i save almost $300. on my car insurance.by using geico"

[mck52689]

x100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

buyer beware comes to mind.lol dude i built a b20b turbo setup for a customer and the total bill didn't go past $3000. and its been a year so far without a hicup whatsoever.if they felt that was the price for that type of build.your friend could have just told the no.plain and simple dont rant if it could had being avoided by your friend.

just like a small child if you tell them to keep there finger off the light socket.and if they dont pour some water on them and let them fry. lesson learn.


by the way "i save almost $300. on my car insurance.by using geico"




He has already put his finger in the socket, and when its out it will get raped by alot of cars out there and it will be funny, i mean we already laugh at him for doing this.:rotfl:

[DPancoast]

i hope its much faster than 12s.

i had a talk with my friend after I posted this and it depends on what the build plan is.

if you're doing the norm with an mr2 and get a clip.

1994+ Gen3T Clip - $3,800
44K Miles
Uncut Harness

^thats from the source I would go to....prices obviously vary.....

Install you figure I dunno $1,500 at the minimum

I know that a 1995 Toyota MR2 Turbo runs a 14.8. So for $5300, that puts motor in your car. No rebuild or anything like that....I dunno.

So yeah $4700 would get you there pretty quick then I guess. Didn't really break it down.

[SovXietday]

remember the pyramid people... gotta meet somewhere.
http://ifacethoughts.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fastgoodchea.png

Um.

10K for a stock LS swap with a T67 turbo setup and no supporting mods or tuning.

This will be none of those.

[Instigator1225]

Um.

10K for a stock LS swap with a T67 turbo setup and no supporting mods or tuning.

This will be none of those.



hahaha so damn true.. this setup will in no way be "fast" .. obviously not cheap ... and how can it be "good".......

hope hes got another 10k to fix what ever these **** heads dicked him over on...

[jdmwill]

Um.

10K for a stock LS swap with a T67 turbo setup and no supporting mods or tuning.

This will be none of those.

you forgot the motec exhaust.and some nooooooooooooosssssssssssssssssss

[SovXietday]

you forgot the motec exhaust.and some nooooooooooooosssssssssssssssssss

On stock injectors and ECU. RAWR Honda powah!!!

[justinlansdale]

i would hope a GENIII MR2 turbo would run quicker than a 14.8....

[fcd102789]

Yo Asian mike you need to keep ur mouth shut and I thought we were friends and I do not need to tell u all of my info with my car so if u don’t know all the info don’t start a THREAD about me and my car. And I also think it is funny how you recommended this place to me in the first place. Also so everyone can shut up I will tell you the truth on the situation that is really going down and so this thread about me, my car, and ground level can stop. I did check many other places for about 6 months so I do have patience and my head is in not in my ass and other places prices were so high it was not even funny and this is not costing me 10k it is only costing at the MOST 7k and it is not just a ls swap with a 67 trim turbo kit I am getting from them. this shows u I did some research I originally was going to do a d16 zc motor with full internals and a 50 trim turbo kit which I had everything for but cams and a cam shaft and I went and check prizes out everywhere to do it and it was a lot and ground level gave me the best price but they GAVE ME A BETTER OFFER and I did check rt tuning u really think I am going to take my car to a place that is going to beat the living **** out of my car on test run screw them and u guys for that idea. What I got from ground level customs and the prices it is my business. and also I would never trust u Asian mike with my car cause u don’t know **** about anything so keep ur mouth shut u like to talk to be cool and to get in on a conversation and now I see why u have no friends. and yes maybe I would have done it with our friend mark and saved some money but if anything goes wrong I am screwed and if anything goes wrong after ground level customs does it I will take it back and they will fix it for nothing if it is their fault. and the hole store with ur close friend that had a motor blow up three times cause of them is bull **** that never happened not even a store close and the only things u ever got down there was exhaust systems never anything big and u always got a cheap exhaust because ground level customs would work around ur poor ass budget.

[fcd102789]

also this is not taking 2 to 3 months it is taking them 3 to 4 weeks

[fcd102789]

that 7k includes motor, trans, COMPLETE borg 67 trim turbo kit with rebuild stronger parts with tial 38 mm waste gate, greddytype rs bov, new motor mounts, trans mounts, all the turbo lines, bigger injectors, taking the other motor and trans out, and putting everything in, and last tuning and a dyno, and a custom catch can with chrome lines for really good price not 600. And putting in my pods and gauges, boost controller, turbo timer, dude everything is being done I can’t even list it all. So everyone stop talking.

[Vince@R/TTuning]

wow, im not sure where you get your info but...we test cars on our dyno, while we watch airfuels and boost and other such inputs that are vitale to tuning. And then we take the car on a drivability test drive to make sure everything feels great. we have built and tuned hundreds of cars at this point..there is no need to "beat" on customers cars...it doesnt appeal to me. And as far as you being upset with ur buddy about talkin **** with out knowing the facts, that is understandable....but take a lil of your own advice "so if u don’t know all the info don’t start" before you speak about someone else....thank you

[SpEcRv9]

im not calling you a liar or anything....but honestly why would R/T build your LSvtec turbo then beat the **** outta it?.....r/t has had many more crazy cars in their shop then some average ass honda, but theyd pick yours?...dont flatter yourself dude r/t is one of the top/most reputable shops in SE Pa....they got better **** to do then beat up your car.

another thing is....for 7k are they supplying the motor trans and EVERYTHING comming with this setup?...or did i read it right when you said you had everything but the CAM...correct me if im wrong....but if i read it right, you're still getting screwed IMO..

[boostedblkef]

Why is there a 3 page thread about some dudes buddy's car thats getting work done when the ONLY person who knows or matters in this situation is the customer and he has posted his situation and seems to be happy with it
this thread is pointless

[DPancoast]

haha WOW

[mck52689]

Yo Asian mike you need to keep ur mouth shut and I thought we were friends and I do not need to tell u all of my info with my car so if u don’t know all the info don’t start a THREAD about me and my car. And I also think it is funny how you recommended this place to me in the first place. Also so everyone can shut up I will tell you the truth on the situation that is really going down and so this thread about me, my car, and ground level can stop. I did check many other places for about 6 months so I do have patience and my head is in not in my ass and other places prices were so high it was not even funny and this is not costing me 10k it is only costing at the MOST 7k and it is not just a ls swap with a 67 trim turbo kit I am getting from them. this shows u I did some research I originally was going to do a d16 zc motor with full internals and a 50 trim turbo kit which I had everything for but cams and a cam shaft and I went and check prizes out everywhere to do it and it was a lot and ground level gave me the best price but they GAVE ME A BETTER OFFER and I did check rt tuning u really think I am going to take my car to a place that is going to beat the living **** out of my car on test run screw them and u guys for that idea. What I got from ground level customs and the prices it is my business. and also I would never trust u Asian mike with my car cause u don’t know **** about anything so keep ur mouth shut u like to talk to be cool and to get in on a conversation and now I see why u have no friends. and yes maybe I would have done it with our friend mark and saved some money but if anything goes wrong I am screwed and if anything goes wrong after ground level customs does it I will take it back and they will fix it for nothing if it is their fault. and the hole store with ur close friend that had a motor blow up three times cause of them is bull **** that never happened not even a store close and the only things u ever got down there was exhaust systems never anything big and u always got a cheap exhaust because ground level customs would work around ur poor ass budget.




HAHAH :rotfl: you have to be kidding me....

Let's go over this.


1. I said go there if you don't have patience which you really don't because you told me and 100 people you don't feel like waiting.

2. They were going to charge you extra, because they saw all of your turbo setup from your " SPONSORS" or should I say "EBAY Shopping" is nothing but ebay brand matiriel and they don't want to be liable for another civic blowing up because you went the cheap way out to turbo your car, telling me and everyone that its all your sponsor turbo xs, turbonetics when it isnt.

3. Even if you get screwed with Mark working on it, you would have 3500 dollars left over and it would cost half that or even less to fix it, instead your paying 7k for a big turbo with no supporting mods... you tell people your going full internals this and that.

4. I am not one to talk ****, maybe i mistaken and wrote this thread, but you say I was your friend, when in fact your sorry a$$ went and told people I lie about **** all the time when in fact you are a pathological liar

- You are going to get your ass beat one day by telling people youll sell them a turbo kit and tell them its name brand this and that and then they will find out you ripped them off for ebay stuff. You lied to me and 100 other people saying you have sleeves, rods, cams, springs, when in fact you dont have any of those things. You say I don't know **** about Honda's when in fact I know more than you will ever know about a Honda engine, you don't even know how to remove a intake manifold yet you were going to pay someone 100 dollars to do it so you could take credit for it. Were not in high school anymore, I made this thread because I can ask people there opinion's and how you didn't listen to us about how your getting ripped the **** off... it started off at 3k ok thats a good price then to 7k.

So don't call me a liar when you lie every day of your life, if your going to be this pathetic and try to cover up faulty stuff then maybe you should log out of tst and sign out of life.

[Im2Slow]

i used to deal with ground level customs, but when it came down to crunch time i took others advice and took my big project to vince and the guys at rt tuning

[mck52689]

just f it and the post is gettin deleted more **** talk doesnt help tst

[dragonfly2k3]

This thread is total fail. The spelling is terrible, I always say im not a spelling nazi, but atleast make an attempt. Also, for 7k unles they are building your motor and/or supplying ALL the parts for a turbo build it seems a little high. Either way, dont bash on r/t. Even if they did take your car for a power run, is it not better they do it while its in their possesion then it break the first time you stomp on it?

[mck52689]

This thread is total fail. The spelling is terrible, I always say im not a spelling nazi, but atleast make an attempt. Also, for 7k unles they are building your motor and/or supplying ALL the parts for a turbo build it seems a little high. Either way, dont bash on r/t. Even if they did take your car for a power run, is it not better they do it while its in their possesion then it break the first time you stomp on it?


This post needs to be gone asap message sent and all that jazz...

[SovXietday]

I did check rt tuning u really think I am going to take my car to a place that is going to beat the living **** out of my car on test run screw them and u guys for that idea.

LOL!!!!

It's called TUNING. You don't tune a car by babying it like a girl. You go WOT to redline and make sure it runs correctly 100% before you hand it over to the customer who is going to go and do the same thing.

If you don't think GLC is going to "beat the **** out of your car" well then you're either

A) horribly mistaken
B) about to get an untuned car back that will probably blow up in your first few pulls

I personally am having a seriously hard time listening to somone who says that xxx knows "nothing" etc when he's having a shop do everything for him. :roll:

Each to their own I suppose, hope you get what you pay for.

[mck52689]

LOL!!!!

It's called TUNING. You don't tune a car by babying it like a girl. You go WOT to redline and make sure it runs correctly 100% before you hand it over to the customer who is going to go and do the same thing.

If you don't think GLC is going to "beat the **** out of your car" well then you're either

A) horribly mistaken
B) about to get an untuned car back that will probably blow up in your first few pulls

I personally am having a seriously hard time listening to somone who says that xxx knows "nothing" etc when he's having a shop do everything for him. :roll:


Each to their own I suppose, hope you get what you pay for.


1. I told him glc because he told me rt beats the piss out of cares or at least thats what glc says, and I never thought r/t would charge more than like 4 or 5k labor when i called them for a b20 swap to my old teg ran 800 installation,... pretty good.

2. This is not a bash, but if your going to say I don't know **** about Honda's when I study them every day of my life, it might as well turn into one, but TST Doesnt need this on the site.

3. A 67 trim turbo with no piston or rod work or bolt work is asking for trouble... he told you that you can run 15psi and get 350whp... seeing as honda sleeves cant handle that much power for long youll be paying more soon.

4. When will this be deleted:mad: haha

[igo4bmx]

2. This is not a bash, but if your going to say I don't know **** about Honda's when I study them every day of my life, it might as well turn into one, but TST Doesnt need this on the site.

3. A 67 trim turbo with no piston or rod work or bolt work is asking for trouble... he told you that you can run 15psi and get 350whp... seeing as honda sleeves cant handle that much power for long youll be paying more soon.


you say you know hondas but then think an ls swap has sleeve problems past 350 whp???:eek:

[mck52689]

hey its happend to a few people i know, especially with a big turbo like that? im not saying it wont handle it... im saying it wont for long with a 67 trim turbo at 15psi. not even head bolts

[mck52689]

you say you know hondas but then think an ls swap has sleeve problems past 350 whp???:eek:


15psi on a massive turbo with stock internals i would say so, its pushing it to the extreme.

[hothatch8787]

The guy that started this thread wants to delete it? Ok, well it sounds to me that there are 2 shops that do similar work. Why bash either. Ignorance is the condition of being uninformed or uneducated, lacking knowledge or information. Thats whats going on here. Anybody listening to anyone here about he said she said crap is ignorant. If you got a problem with somebody handle it personaly or legaly. Dont get on a form and whine and cry about it just in hopes to destroy a reputation, or somebodys good time with thier hobby. I know both shops. They both offer different services. They both have had to made some mistakes. Its how they were handled is what counts. Nobody is perfect and no shop is perfect. The customer has as much of an obligation to handle a situation as the shop if not more. One of these shops has been around for over 10 years. That hasnt happened because they are rip offs or destroy customers rides. The other one seems like they have a lot of happy loyal customers as well. Bash somebody for talking non-sence or handing out bad information not a shop that is there to make a living and to provide a good service for loyal customers. I look on forums for the good info. This thread does not belong on a forum that is usualy a good source of information.

[mck52689]

which is why it is being deleted

[hothatch8787]

So you got an aluminum exhaust system?

[mck52689]

i dont even have the car anymore.

[TROLL]

god deleting the content of a thread you start yourself is soooo lame.
next time hopefully you'll take the time to think before you start typing, and once you commit to it you'll have the guts to stand by it.